Francona Out

[iam76]

I wish that I were kidding. It stuns me that you think the Sox have done a good job developing talent in the last five years.

Tell me about all of the great young arms in the Sox system that have come up in the last five years. Sox had to go outside to make moves such as DiceK, Lackey, Bedard, etc. because they got bupkis in the farm system. They also had to sign or trade for Okajima, Morales, Albers, Wheeler, Aceves because they have such little pitching depth. Also had to sign or trade for position players like Crawford, Conor Jackson, Scutaro, Cameron because they don't have much on the farm for position players either. Who are the good arms that have been developed other than Bard? Michael Bowden? Felix Doubrant? LOL. How about catcher where they had to trade for Salty who can't hit his way out of a paper bag?Any promising catchers been developed in the last decade?

Not everyone always pans out. But also the guys that we had that were young and were on the verge of making this team we traded. We traded our best pitching prospect for Agone . We traded one in the Vmart trade. But honestly where would they have fit going into this season. Everything was built for this year to be a big year.. But when people got hurt it left us in a bind. Blame theo? maybe but having so many guys getting hurt and performing poorly does not help, and nobody saw it coming... We have a very good pitching prospect whos a year or so away... Anthony Renardo (sp)? Sox have drafted catchers who haven't panned out.. exposito was sposed to be the man.. before that shoppach.... And to say Salty cant hit is pretty funny (he batted 240 with 16 homeruns in less then 400 at bats.. He put together a pretty good season and improved his catching in a big way. Not a bad pickup for a team to have a catcher with some pop and is young. We are lucky to be in a market that can afford to trade pay for bigtime players. We also can draft bigtime players and pay them...

Does this year suck....yes... does last year suck... yes.. But the one thing that ties both of these together beyond manager and gm is our players health.. Both years we lost many key players by the time september came around. Yet we still won 90ish games...

I would hate if we lost Theo.. We have drafted well with him specially seeing our draft position each year. This past year we had a very nice draft... I think we are better off keeping Theo. Are there people to blame.. sure.. but sometimes things don't go as planned. I believe he should be given another year to right the ship.. overhaul the medical and training of our team.. and of course to get carl crawford to change his stance.., LOL

 

[doggydaddy]

And to say Salty cant hit is pretty funny (he batted 240 with 16 homeruns in less then 400 at bats.. He put together a pretty good season and improved his catching in a big way. Not a bad pickup for a team to have a catcher with some pop and is young.

You listed him at .240 and it was .235. Not a big difference, but .235 sucks.

He also had 119 K's in only 358 ABs. Horrific. And he doesn't walk either. .285 OBP as well.

He had a very good June and solid July. But his August was lousy and September, when the team could have used help from anyone, he batted .162 and had a .542 OPS.

He is no longer young either, going on 27 and into his prime.

 

[iam76]

there isnt much difference between 240 hitter and a 235 hitter.. they both are subpar. But for a catcher it doesnt suck so bad. For instance look at Kelly Shoppach... batted like 176 with 11 homers... I do agree Salty swings and misses to much equaling unproductive outs. but to pin anything on him would be foolish. Now maybe mr lavernway or whatever his name is can work with salty next year and hold us over till our draft pick from this year is ready if he even plays catcher for us..

You have to take salty for what he is. An improving defensive catcher that is basically an all or nothign power gap hitter... If you ask me thats not a bad option. If he played fulltime he would prolly bat 210-240 with 25 homers... not the best but not an automatic out.

the problem with this team was not salty.. the problem was a few of our core players being unhealthy and not playing at all. A healthy youk, Healthy A-gone, healthy beckett, A bullpen that doesnt overwork its setup man, and Crawful playing half as good as he can would have put this team into the playoffs. See alot of variables.

 

[zyron]

They'd better get a king's ransom for ellsbury or else keep him.

Also he is now Arbitration eligible and Boras is his agent. Wonder what they ask for after this season.

 

[bpo57]

Not everyone always pans out. But also the guys that we had that were young and were on the verge of making this team we traded. We traded our best pitching prospect for Agone . We traded one in the Vmart trade. But honestly where would they have fit going into this season. Everything was built for this year to be a big year.. But when people got hurt it left us in a bind. Blame theo? maybe but having so many guys getting hurt and performing poorly does not help, and nobody saw it coming... We have a very good pitching prospect whos a year or so away... Anthony Renardo (sp)? Sox have drafted catchers who haven't panned out.. exposito was sposed to be the man.. before that shoppach.... And to say Salty cant hit is pretty funny (he batted 240 with 16 homeruns in less then 400 at bats.. He put together a pretty good season and improved his catching in a big way. Not a bad pickup for a team to have a catcher with some pop and is young. We are lucky to be in a market that can afford to trade pay for bigtime players. We also can draft bigtime players and pay them...

Does this year suck....yes... does last year suck... yes.. But the one thing that ties both of these together beyond manager and gm is our players health.. Both years we lost many key players by the time september came around. Yet we still won 90ish games...

I would hate if we lost Theo.. We have drafted well with him specially seeing our draft position each year. This past year we had a very nice draft... I think we are better off keeping Theo. Are there people to blame.. sure.. but sometimes things don't go as planned. I believe he should be given another year to right the ship.. overhaul the medical and training of our team.. and of course to get carl crawford to change his stance.., LOL

You make some good points. My beef with Theo is that the supply of young up and comers seems to have stalled after the wave represented by ells, pedroia and buchholz. Lately not much of interest on that front. Maybe that changes in a few, hope so. And the free agent front has been a disaster.

As doggy pointed out, salty closed horribly down the stretch. Stats are one thing but I go by what I see and I saw a lot of awful ABs. Too many swings and misses at balls in the dirt. Just doesn't put on good ABs but will find the proverbial acorn once in a while and hit a bomb. I understand that good catchers that can hit and defend are not often available but I'd love to upgrade that position. The Rangers struck gold with Napoli.

 

[iam76]

You make some good points. My beef with Theo is that the supply of young up and comers seems to have stalled after the wave represented by ells, pedroia and buchholz. Lately not much of interest on that front. Maybe that changes in a few, hope so. And the free agent front has been a disaster.

As doggy pointed out, salty closed horribly down the stretch. Stats are one thing but I go by what I see and I saw a lot of awful ABs. Too many swings and misses at balls in the dirt. Just doesn't put on good ABs but will find the proverbial acorn once in a while and hit a bomb. I understand that good catchers that can hit and defend are not often available but I'd love to upgrade that position. The Rangers struck gold with Napoli.

Who we had traded for but somehow it fell through

 

[bpo57]

What do you think of Levarnway?

Don't know much other than the brief look this year but looking at his stats it seems like he has a lot more upside than Salty. The key is how well can he play the position. No doubt he can hit.

 

[speedoo]

Is there a Yankee fan today that doesn't think Burnett gags it up tonight? The Yankee fan in my house has much the same expectation as you.

The CC thing will be interesting. Is he worth the money to get you to the postseason if he isn't very good in the post season? Is he fat and out of shape or gassed from overuse? ( I don't actually think he was overused). Nice to see ARod earning his money though.

I'm probably the most optimistic Yankee fan around so I'll take the bait and say I think Burnett gives a quality start tonight. If they can hit Porcello the series goes back to NY for game 5.

Why a good game for Burnett?

1. He's done it before.
2. Two of his last three starts were good.

 

[Deadrody]

Yeah, but if you disagree I feel better about it being so.

I heard a clip today of him saying that we are in a "post-moneyball era". That is spot on.

How so ? Just because he claims that is a fact and you agree, does not make it so.

Feel free get on with telling us how this is the "post-moneyball era" any time you like...