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Francona Out

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zls44

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Surprising? No.
Stupid? Fark yes.
 
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Surprising? No.
Stupid? Fark yes.
If anyone should be gone, it should be Theo but wouldn't like that change either. The Sox problem was finishing the season with nothing close to the original lineup. Pitching was the worse problem along with defense and poor hitting in key situations....guess that covers just about everything. They flat out stunk the park out in September. Tito wasn't the problem, the players were.
 
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Sorry to see Francona go. One of his main strengths has been that his players play hard for him and respect him but for whatever reason this crew had some bad chemistry and you could tell it wore Francona down.
 
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Read a few things over the last couple of days...

Apparently the team meeting Tito called in Toronto was because of a rift in the clubhouse. There were a small, vocal group who supported Lackey. It was basically Tek and a couple of other pitchers. The rest of the team, ie the fielders, didn't appreciate the way Lackey hung them out to dry whenever there was even a base hit. This goes back to what Tito said was "energy being spent but not helping us win" or some such phrase.

Ownership really, really wanted to make a splash two winters ago and pitching was where there was room. Theo gave the front office plenty of reasons why Lackey could be a bad fit but he was basically told he had to go sign this guy. Apparently it didn't matter who was the best pitcher available, they were going to sign him. If this is true, how many other guys did Theo have the proverbial gun to his head to sign?

Tito did not hear from ownership once during the collapse. Not a single word. No support, no "get your arse in gear". Nothing.

It looks like Tito may have just been sick of all of the drama. Now with Tito gone, Theo, who shared the brunt of fan angst over the last 8 years or so, is alone against ownership. I would look for Theo to be packing some boxes in the next day or two as well.
 

Waquoit

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If this is true, how many other guys did Theo have the proverbial gun to his head to sign?

I have a feeling Crawford was one after hearing Tom Werner on the radio last winter. He said the Sox "will" sign a big free agent.
 
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Read a few things over the last couple of days...

Apparently the team meeting Tito called in Toronto was because of a rift in the clubhouse. There were a small, vocal group who supported Lackey. It was basically Tek and a couple of other pitchers. The rest of the team, ie the fielders, didn't appreciate the way Lackey hung them out to dry whenever there was even a base hit. This goes back to what Tito said was "energy being spent but not helping us win" or some such phrase.

Ownership really, really wanted to make a splash two winters ago and pitching was where there was room. Theo gave the front office plenty of reasons why Lackey could be a bad fit but he was basically told he had to go sign this guy. Apparently it didn't matter who was the best pitcher available, they were going to sign him. If this is true, how many other guys did Theo have the proverbial gun to his head to sign?

Tito did not hear from ownership once during the collapse. Not a single word. No support, no "get your arse in gear". Nothing.

It looks like Tito may have just been sick of all of the drama. Now with Tito gone, Theo, who shared the brunt of fan angst over the last 8 years or so, is alone against ownership. I would look for Theo to be packing some boxes in the next day or two as well.
Not so fast with Tito leaving. ESPN report says no decision yet.
As far as Lackey is concerned, somebody should have jacked up that idiot and if Tek supported Lackey, shame on him. Tek as captain should have straightened out Lackey instead of supporting him. How would Lackey have responded if his shortstop threw his hands in the air every time Lackey gave up an extra base hit. You don't embarass your teamates.
Lackey was a good signing on paper if you look his record and toughness and he may well have been the best pitcher available at the time. I don't think anyone could have predicted the disaster he became in Boston. Remember, he was basicly signed as the #4 starter. I don't remember any Boston fans complaining when Lackey was signed.
 
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I'd take Bobby V in a heartbeat.

Oh Lord, no. That guy is unbearable just watching him for 10 min on tv. I remember him with the Mets where everybody hated the guy. No thanks.
 
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My only concern with Lackey was his struggles with the sox and at Fenway in particular.
 
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Something had to change and Tito made it easy for them to let him go. That team was not fun to watch after about 2/3 through the season.
They may have been the worst conditioned team in MLB. Get somebody in to kick @ss, maybe there won't be so many injuries.
 
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From what I have been reading the clubhouse seems to be a mess and Francona thought it was time for a new start. Apparently some Red Sox starters were even drinking during games they didn't start.
 

Zorro

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The Yankees got AJ and CC off the free agent market; the Sox got Lackey. If Theo is responsible for that (and for Drew), he ought to be fired. If Henry is responsible, he ought to fire himself. I'm betting that Tito quit in disgust. He's a good man and a good manager. I wish him luck.
 
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The problem with "clubhouse chemistry" is, if you can't set that aside for Francona, who WOULD they set that aside for ? Seems like a bad move to me.
 

FfldCntyFan

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I want to know what is wrong with the MLB teams with the word Sox in their nicknames.

Prior to this millenium, each team had to look back to when World War One was still being fought to see their last world series championships. There is one man alive who can say that he managed the Red Sox to the world championship and there is one man alive who can say that he managed the White Sox to the world championship. How either franchise let these men go is beyond me.
 

Waquoit

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Oh Lord, no. That guy is unbearable just watching him for 10 min on tv. I remember him with the Mets where everybody hated the guy. No thanks.

Not everybody. He built up the Mets, he developed players and he took them to the World Series. They haven't done jack since. I know people don't like smart guys these days but he has a good handle on the situation. I heard a clip today of him saying that we are in a "post-moneyball era". That is spot on.
 

Waquoit

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Surprising? No.
Stupid? Fark yes.

Nah, it's the right move for all concerned. Ultimately, what he had to do to keep Manny somewhat in line came back to haunt him. 8-0 in the World Series is his Sox legacy.
 
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. I heard a clip today of him saying that we are in a "post-moneyball era". That is spot on.
How so ? Just because he claims that is a fact and you agree, does not make it so.
 

Waquoit

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How so ? Just because he claims that is a fact and you agree, does not make it so.

Yeah, but if you disagree I feel better about it being so.
 

Chin Diesel

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As a Sox fan who has become less interested in baseball overall, I'm officially ambivalent.

Tito being let go before the franchise shhittt the bed means he's officially a demigod in Boston for life. He's won the only two world series for the franchise since the League of Nations was formed.

On the other hand, the past two seasons has been painful to watch for me. What has irked me about the team was it's inability to keep simple stuff simple. I get the whole moneyball thing, working counts deep and winning wars of attrition, but I think it wears on the players too.

Granted if it was easy to turn the switch between swing away and foul-off two strike pitches a bunch more players would do it, but I'd love to see a Sox game end in 2 hours every once in a while.

Crappy thing is for the players and new manager is that no matter what the Sox do in the off-season or during the regular season through August matters. Their season will be judged by how they finish next season.
 

Dann

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joe torre and bobby v are going to play a chess match at notre dame con home in fairfield next week to see who gets the sox job.
 

Zorro

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One longs for the days of "cowboy up".
 
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