Fouls Drawn In Big East Play - I crunched the numbers

[superjohn]

Is it because some cabal of refs hate Dan Hurley’s guts so much they’ve decided to put a spell on UConn’s players, giving them the inability to draw fouls

No, they just decided it was okay for Providence to body our guards and bridge our big man and then call those fouls on the other end.

 

[Palatine]

I had a stats teacher at UConn present a strong correlation between eating ice cream, and drownings. The correlation was undeniable.

Digging deeper, it wasn't because Ben and Jerry's was offing ice cream lovers.

Hurley being an ass may affect a call or two. But it had nothing to do with a 10 pt, or 12 point loss.

Completely specious. But it is a fun fact.

 

[FriarJ]

Over the years there has been many great BY threads but this is right up there. Hurley has a lot of power, he has influenced the players and the fans. This is world class whining.

Fans bitch and moan about officiating on every team message board in the world. But rarely can they bring it to conspiracy level and begging the AD and conference commissioner to do something about it. This is a first for my eyes.

Congrats, and thank you all for the laughs.

 

[jayp123669]

I posted this elsewhere so sorry for double post.

I have family who officiate and understand the human element and try to be fair but this is egregious...I mean BOTH games UConn outscored PC and Xavier on the floor and essentially lost due to a one sided FT shooting contest. Ive watched 30 years of UConn basketball as well as nationally....to lose when you outscore the other opponent is RARE and usually its by a point or two either way. To lose when you outscore an opponent by 7? 9? Points AND lose by 10+ ...Id venture to say maybe 2% of the games EVER. Thats insanely rare. So unless these refs are "cooking" the games, which after Tim Donaghy, anything is possible especially with the nature and ease of gambling in our society currently, they have some issues with Hurley and are taking it out on UConn. Its clear to anyone watching.

 

[Kembacity]

One, I do think refs are sticking it to Dan Hurley a bit. Probably started with the GT game where he kept calling the ref a “… Clown”. They’re human, I’d probably do the same. Hopefully just a 2 game thing to prove a point

Two, as some have said, our guys a very soft at the rim and avoid contact. AJ is most confusing as he’s aggressive and plays with an edge, except when driving to the hoop. Newton is such a good foul shooter, wish he was also more comfortable going up and drawing contact.

I know I’ve seen this thought that the refs take it out on Hurley throughout the game, but how about Cooley? The whistles going his way the entire game and the moment a clear charge is called on Hopkins he blows his top. If I were the ref I’d give him an immediate T and tell him you can’t give me this horsesht when the calls couldn’t be more in your favor.

Providences whole team whines about every call, they hugged Sanogo with both hands but couldn’t believe they got the whistle, why doesn’t that come back to hurt them?!?

 

[BPT2Storrs]

I think the biggest takeaway of the last two games is that we were still in the mix very late in the game even though we didn’t get to the line nearly as much as X or Providence.

Hurley knew he messed up in the X game with the technical. That killed us when we still had a shot at winning the game. Fast forward to Providence and Hurley had to bite his tongue even though there were a few instances where the refs deserved to be called out. They missed a blatant hook on Sanogo, there was a loose by scuffle at mid court in which players were all over the ground. Hell, I’m not just complaining about UConn. On AJaxs drive they called a foul on Providence and Jax wasn’t even touched. That’s outrageous.

Hurley needed to make better in game adjustments and are players need to knock down shots, but you can’t sit here and say for two straight games we were not getting calls that were being called on the other end.

 

[CL82]

Figured I share this with everyone here.

I wanted to take a look at how UConn is at drawing fouls on drives compared to the rest of the Big East.

There are 58 players who have attempted at least 3 shots per game in the paint + at the rim and here is where UConn players rank (data is from in-conference games only):
View attachment 82718
What's even more mind bending are the fouls (not called) on Sanogo. Across the Big East with other high usage centers, they draw fouls on nearly 17% of their shots, compared to Sanogo who only draws fouls on 5.6%

Make of this what you wish. I know officiating has been discussed in like 100 different threads, but I figured I'd put some data together to see if it backs up the whistles we see / don't see.

Anyone who wants to double check my work or play around with the numbers can use this Google Sheet here:

Could you generate an equalized comparison by team?

 

[FriarJ]

I think the biggest takeaway of the last two games is that we were still in the mix very late in the game even though we didn’t get to the line nearly as much as X or Providence.

Hurley knew he messed up in the X game with the technical. That killed us when we still had a shot at winning the game. Fast forward to Providence and Hurley had to bite his tongue even though there were a few instances where the refs deserved to be called out. They missed a blatant hook on Sanogo, there was a loose by scuffle at mid court in which players were all over the ground. Hell, I’m not just complaining about UConn. On AJaxs drive they called a foul on Providence and Jax wasn’t even touched. That’s outrageous.

Hurley needed to make better in game adjustments and are players need to knock down shots, but you can’t sit here and say for two straight games we were not getting calls that were being called on the other end.

I will add to the lunacy, there were missed calls for both teams. This was an obvious reach around, yet no call.

 

[Kembacity]

Missed calls for both teams. This was an obvious reach around, yet no call.

That was in the first half and called a foul, put the crack pipe down dummy

 

[FriarJ]

That was in the first half and called a foul, put the crack pipe down dummy

I do remember the ref saying 44 reach around.

I can assure you, I’m not the one smoking crack. Okay, I’ve added enough. Now get back to your bitch fest. Creighton commits the fewest fouls in the entire NCAA. This ought to be quite the place on Saturday. I’m expecting to see a Venn Diagram explaining the conspiracy.

 

[REB1094]

That was in the first half and called a foul, put the crack pipe down dummy

Yeah I’m pretty sure that was his second foul lol. He got fouled on a layup that wasn’t called, then made this dumb play in frustration and had to sit the next 16 minutes for it

Not a great example to use

 

[CL82]

I do remember the ref saying 44 reach around.

I thought the refs call was “illegal check of the prostate.”

 

[superjohn]

That was in the first half and called a foul, put the crack pipe down dummy

Friar is so terrible at this. He posts data not knowing what any of it means, he posts pictures of no call fouls that were actually called fouls and he does it all while trying to mock us.

It's fun to watch him come over here and drool all over himself.

 

[Palatine]

I had a stats teacher at UConn present a strong correlation between eating ice cream, and drownings. The correlation was undeniable.

Digging deeper, it wasn't because Ben and Jerry's was offing ice cream lovers.

Hurley being an ass may affect a call or two. But it had nothing to do with a 10 pt, or 12 point loss.

Actually, the correlation makes perfect sense. Ice cream sales are up in warm weather as are water activities. Much ice cream is consumed in seasonal shops near water. Swimming decreases in cold weather as do ice cream sales.

Therefore one could be fairly certain that an increase in ice cream sales would positively correlate to an increase in drownings. Not causal, but a strong and predictable correlation.

 

[FriarJ]

Friar is so terrible at this. He posts data not knowing what any of it means, he posts pictures of no call fouls that were actually called fouls and he does it all while trying to mock us.

It's fun to watch him come over here and drool all over himself.

Providence beat UConn’s asses all over the court, the players know it and the coaches know it. They will grow from it. You will whine and bitch. End of story.

 

[McLovin]

Could you generate an equalized comparison by team?

I believe this is what you're looking for? For reference, UConn attempts 29.2 FG per game at the rim + paint, draws 3.6 fouls per game on those shots, for a 12.33% foul rate.

 

[temery]

Actually, the correlation makes perfect sense. Ice cream sales are up in warm weather as are water activities. Much ice cream is consumed in seasonal shops near water. Swimming decreases in cold weather as do ice cream sales.

Therefore one could be fairly certain that an increase in ice cream sales would positively correlate to an increase in drownings. Not causal, but a strong and predictable correlation.

Really?

 

[HuskyHawk]

One possible explanation on Adama is that he’s very patient and methodical on the low block and he plays below the rim. His strength is in his footwork and touch, not his size or explosiveness. What Providence did yesterday and what many teams do is try to crowd him and take away his ability to pivot. It allows for the defense to close out in control and stay straight up making him uncomfortable vs. having to say meet a player at the rim who is attacking as soon as they get a touch.

Yeah, sort of. But they crowd him with arms up, and those arms aren't truly vertical, they angle in. He gets hit by those arms sometimes 3-4 times a possession. Are they hard fouls? No. But they are the exact same fouls Alex Karaban gets called for every time. He's an And One machine because of it. Sanogo is probably fouled 6-8 times a game that aren't called. I'm fine with those, as long as our guys aren't being called for that either. But they are.

I said in chat against PC, you know the refs haven't been paid off, because nobody who was paid off would make it this obvious. It's beyond that and it seems quite personal and intentional. I'm very curious to see what happens tomorrow, and I think McLovin should post this on Twitter and tag Dave B.

 

[superjohn]

Yeah, sort of. But they crowd him with arms up, and those arms aren't truly vertical, they angle in. He gets hit by those arms sometimes 3-4 times a possession. Are they hard fouls? No. But they are the exact same fouls Alex Karaban gets called for every time. He's an And One machine because of it. Sanogo is probably fouled 6-8 times a game that aren't called. I'm fine with those, as long as our guys aren't being called for that either. But they are.

I said in chat against PC, you know the refs haven't been paid off, because nobody who was paid off would make it this obvious. It's beyond that and it seems quite personal and intentional. I'm very curious to see what happens tomorrow, and I think McLovin should post this on Twitter and tag Dave B.

That was the problem with the PC game, they weren't calling the same stuff both ways. If you're going to allow physical play do it for both teams, if you're going to call it tight do it both ways. We did foul too much playing defense in a typical game but PC was doing the same thing on our offensive end with no whistle.

Alex is getting called on some of those and 1's because he's late coming over on a driving layup. Sanogo's are when he's trying to pirouette all over the place under the hoop, sometimes the defenders are bumping him and aren't vertical with their arms but Sanogo doesn't get the benefit because he plays such a finesse style and doesn't seek out contact under there.

 

[Palatine]

Really?

Yeah, it's just common sense. Ice cream sales are highest in the hottest months. The highest number of swimmers are in the water in the highest temperature months, hence more drownings.

I bet something like motorcycle accidents would correlate pretty well because motorcycle riding is low in the winter and high in the summer. As I said, not cause/effect but a predictable correlation.

 

[CheshireCat]

Adama rarely travels because he has such great footwork and use of his pivot foot. He is all about finesse than going up strong and drawing the foul. He would rather attempt to make a 2 point bucket than draw a foul. He certainly isn't going catch the ball in the block and immediately pass it out.

Agreed. You don't draw a lot of fouls taking jump hooks and pirouette moves underneath the rim for protection. You probably see more fouls on these bigs on the floor trying to establish position. Often times bigs help their teams get into the bonus this way, but arent the ones ultimately shooting the free throws. Aside from him being a superior 3pt shooter, Dixon is probably the closest thing to Sanogo in the Big East? Also way down the list. Where did his numbers get a bump up? Mismatches on switches or against UCONN, backing down guys in isolation because Hurley opted to let him do that vs. doubling. Short of that, he has been to the line once in 3 other games. The formula thus far has been to double Sanogo and let Jackson shoot 3s. Jackson successful against Nova, not so much vs Xavier and PC.

I also pointed out to our "stats team" that the big east season is still very young. It would be interesting to look at the same numbers over the course of last FULL Big East season? Because a big part of drawing fouls is skill and style of play, some teams are going to have more personnel that are better at it than others. Because of these large disparities between players, what does it look like when you take the best and worst players numbers out from each team.

 

[August_West]

No, they just decided it was okay for Providence to body our guards and bridge our big man and then call those fouls on the other end.

Providence bodies cutters . It’s a Cooley signature.

This isn’t a comment at you, but in general to the BY after this loss. Classic big East hoops. We thought we were kings. We ain’t right now. Providence out BigEast’d us. Don’t cry. We were away from league. Now we are back. Adjust.

We'd be undefeated in pac12 I don't want to be pac12 or 10 or 8. I want to win bigeast wars

 

[ClifSpliffy]

Yeah, sort of. But they crowd him with arms up, and those arms aren't truly vertical, they angle in. He gets hit by those arms sometimes 3-4 times a possession. Are they hard fouls? No. But they are the exact same fouls Alex Karaban gets called for every time. He's an And One machine because of it. Sanogo is probably fouled 6-8 times a game that aren't called. I'm fine with those, as long as our guys aren't being called for that either. But they are.

I said in chat against PC, you know the refs haven't been paid off, because nobody who was paid off would make it this obvious. It's beyond that and it seems quite personal and intentional. I'm very curious to see what happens tomorrow, and I think McLovin should post this on Twitter and tag Dave B.

ur starting to sound like a forum shopper. u know, looking far and wide for an audience to hear some crapola that doesn't really exist. butthurt is not an actionable offense. even when u do get lucky forum shopping, usually there's a higher court that sez 'sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up for today.'
u can do it. put ur toes in the water of the great 'out-there,' where apparently no one other than us local dreamers share the opinion that 'they're all trying to get us!'
the overwhelming majority, like 100%, of other cbb hoop chatters, are like 'youse are whiny, stop imagining things that are not there.'

really killing our former 'Connecticut, accomplished and dignified, tho we dislike u immensely, rep.' in this life, respect goes a lot further than 'like.' and now, we're gettin dissed on a regular basis. not good.
here, have a lovely beat,
too much with the bickering, kill it with the sound...

 

[superjohn]

Providence bodies cutters . It’s a Cooley signature.

This isn’t a comment at you, but in general to the BY after this loss. Classic big East hoops. We thought we were kings. We ain’t right now. Providence out BigEast’d us. Don’t cry. We were away from league. Now we are back. Adjust.

We'd be underrated in pac12 I don't want tbe pac12 or 10 it 8. I want to win bigeast wars

Again, I'm fine with it if it's called both ways. They bodied all game long with rarely a whistle until a couple minutes left and the game was over, we bodied all game and got called for fouls all game.

Good for Cooley and Providence, I like them but the refs were wildly inconsistent that game. Didn't have a problem with the refs in the Xavier game.

 

[KingAG]

Providence bodies cutters . It’s a Cooley signature.

This isn’t a comment at you, but in general to the BY after this loss. Classic big East hoops. We thought we were kings. We ain’t right now. Providence out BigEast’d us. Don’t cry. We were away from league. Now we are back. Adjust.

We'd be undefeated in pac12 I don't want to be pac12 or 10 or 8. I want to win bigeast wars

I guess the gripe is why weren’t we allowed to do the same thing? Also they missed calls both ways to be fair. It just seemed that the calls they missed on providence turned into huge momentum plays. Ie when they stripped Sanogo by damn near arm hooking his entire arm that led to that huge Noah Locke 3. And then the next time down when we were on defense they call us for a cheap reach in. You can’t not call that assault on Sanogo and then call us for a tickle reach lol

 

[ClifSpliffy]

this is where our collective heads should be at, with a big game coming up.
Don't worry about it, people, we'll walk you through it
Step by step, like an infant new kid
Inch by inch with the new solution
Transmit hits, with no delusion
The feeling's irresistible and that's how we movin'

 

[August_West]

I guess the gripe is why weren’t we allowed to do the same thing? Also they missed calls both ways to be fair. It just seemed that the calls they missed on providence turned into huge momentum plays. Ie when they stripped Sanogo by damn near arm hooking his entire arm that led to that huge Noah Locke 3. And then the next time down when we were on defense they call us for a cheap reach in. You can’t not call that assault on Sanogo and then call us for a tickle reach lol

We didn't do the same thing. Because we don't do that. So when we do we aren't practiced on it. It’s a style. It’s how a team chooses to play. Fouls are missed on both teams EVERY game. Picking out one vs another is futile. Example? Against Xavier Sanogo extended his arm and nunge flopped, and he got a T for a flop call. Later Newton did nothing and dude flopped and it was a charge on Newton. Basketball, how does it work?
Dauster has it right , this bitching makes us sound like a poverty program.

Providence played to their identity and beat us on their home court and got some calls. Kudos. Move on.

 

[peeps]

We didn't do the same thing. Because we don't do that. So when we do we aren't practiced on it. It’s a style. It’s how a team chooses to play. Fouls are missed on both teams EVERY game. Picking out one vs another is futile. Example? Against Xavier Sanogo extended his arm and nunge flopped, and he got a T for a flop call. Later Newton did nothing and dude flopped and it was a charge on Newton. Basketball, how does it work?
Dauster has it right , this bitching makes us sound like a poverty program.

Providence played to their identity and beat us on their home court and got some calls. Kudos. Move on.

Villanova does this to PC every year and always beat us at the free throw line and it is never because they aren’t better than us and the refs gave it to them. It is because they draw fouls and hit free throws.

All the whiners need to get a new, less embarrassing hobby than finding sabermetrics for how there is a conspiracy against UConn. Grow up Peter Pan.

 

[LBird33]

I watched a bit of Xavier v St John's game where they had the coaches "miked-up". At half time, Mike Anderson, the coach of St John's gave a speech that, if I recall correctly, said, "we need to turn this into a street fight". It should be a basketball game not a street fight! Locker room talk can be colorful, I know. Still this was his strategy. It is a strategy because the coaches know the officials can't discern a street fight from solid basketball. This is the problem. Unfortunately, the BE embraces and wears it as a badge of honor. Allowing games to disintegrate into a street fight is unacceptable, IMO. Bad officiating flourishes in the BE. I doubt they have it out for just UConn. It is a conference thing. It forces UConn to rework itself into something it may not be good at. That is my fear. But there is still a long way to go and I have hope UConn will adapt.

It’s how they played in the old big East. The kicked the crap out of each other then went into the tournament prepared. If you weren’t good or tough enough you ended up with a losing record. It’s big East ball. Love it or leave it

 

[LBird33]

I had a stats teacher at UConn present a strong correlation between eating ice cream, and drownings. The correlation was undeniable.

Digging deeper, it wasn't because Ben and Jerry's was offing ice cream lovers.

Hurley being an ass may affect a call or two. But it had nothing to do with a 10 pt, or 12 point loss.

Oh my I better give up ice cream lol