Forwards & centers

[Bone Dog]

The Big difference is that Kierra Fletcher is a proven All ACC point guard for Insurance and Raven Johnson had worked her way into thel lineup as the incomimg high school Naismith Player of the Year. Both fill a need that Stanford did not address after their championship season. I think we are not examining is the great team defense South Carolina played. They shut down every team in the post season from a rebounding and defensive standpoint, and they have all those pieces back. It will be interesting, with their returning experience and talent.

Those are definitely reasons for SC fans to be confident. You’re projecting optimistic readings of the new kids forward and assuming the veterans will perform as they did previously even without Henderson. That’s exactly what we’re doing with UConn. And admittedly UConn’s fan optimism has a more precarious foundation than SC’s fans have. But that may play into our favor, since the culture of the team over the last two seasons has been less juggernaut and more scrappy survivors. We made it to the NC game last year, after all, picking up believers among the rest of the country only along the way.

Now here’s the big leap — if we aren’t plagued by injuries again, and if SC doesn’t catch the injury bug this time around, a second meeting in the NC game is possible. The only difference would be that SC will mainly look the same except for a question mark at pg, and we’ll look rather different, perhaps a bit weaker than last year, or maybe surprisingly stronger. Since this is a UConn fan forum, you will have to grant us the benefit of the doubt in deciding which of those two options we’ll all say is more likely.

 

[sharris25]

Those are definitely reasons for SC fans to be confident. You’re projecting optimistic readings of the new kids forward and assuming the veterans will perform as they did previously even without Henderson. That’s exactly what we’re doing with UConn. And admittedly UConn’s fan optimism has a more precarious foundation than SC’s fans have. But that may play into our favor, since the culture of the team over the last two seasons has been less juggernaut and more scrappy survivors. We made it to the NC game last year, after all, picking up believers among the rest of the country only along the way.

Now here’s the big leap — if we aren’t plagued by injuries again, and if SC doesn’t catch the injury bug this time around, a second meeting in the NC game is possible. The only difference would be that SC will mainly look the same except for a question mark at pg, and we’ll look rather different, perhaps a bit weaker than last year, or maybe surprisingly stronger. Since this is a UConn fan forum, you will have to grant us the benefit of the doubt in deciding which of those two options we’ll all say is more likely.

That is fine and I always look forward to the battles between SC and Uconn. Maybe another National Championship bout. (The sequel. lol). Two things I kind of disagree with. One, Johnson was already playing the first two games and expected to split time with Henderson because of her talent level and court vision displayed in the pre-season. If you know Dawn, it is hard for a freshmen to be granted that rope so early, thus I expect Raven to fit in well with the starters. Also South Carolina beat Stanford, and a few other highly ranked teams with Henderson out and no availability of Raven either. Two, Uconn's run to the final was very impressive, but Paige was a big portion of the offensive output. Can the new girls and replacements provide the offensive output needed for Uconn to duplicate the feat. All big questions to be answered as this season unfolds.

 

[Bone Dog]

Two things I kind of disagree with. One, Johnson was already playing the first two games and expected to split time with Henderson because of her talent level and court vision displayed in the pre-season. … Two, Uconn's run to the final was very impressive, but Paige was a big portion of the offensive output. Can the new girls and replacements provide the offensive output needed for Uconn to duplicate the feat.

You’re not really disagreeing at all. You’re just giving a finer account of the basis of your optimism.

I’ll grant you #1, though it’s already been well chewed over where how vulnerable Stanford was without a pg. they lost to Texas simply for this reason, too. Surely SC is better than Texas, right? (Lol)

As for #2, using the same sorts of evidence you’ve just cited, we already know the new girls can — Azzi and Caroline have already shown they can torch opponents, and they can dominate opposing guards on both ends of the court. Can Lou do this, too? That remains to be seen, but we already know that Azzi and Caroline are proven commodities and better than anything SC has to offer. [injury questions, blah blah blah] That is, without even asking about the newest girls, we already know we can field a competitive starting five to anything SC can put out there. The question marks in our squad only concern how much more the new kids can contribute.

And since this is a UConn fan forum, you’ll have to grant us the confidence that the new kids will be able to contribute a lot.

 

[Stymie]

In my heart, and despite the departure of three starters (or 2 1/2 if one wishes to split hairs), I believe this years edition is a better team than last years.
Big difference in the front line- big difference.
Dorka more experienced in UCONN system- Aayliah primed for major step forward, lots of hungry new size competing for court time ( will elevate level and energy of entire big brigade)
Despite Paige’s absence- stellar group of backcourt athletes.
It won’t be easy, and I think UCONN’s style of play will be substantially modified from that we are accustomed to.
Last year’s returners showed me tons of heart-which along with “size” is not possible to teach.
Can’t wait!

 

[sharris25]

You’re not really disagreeing at all. You’re just giving a finer account of the basis of your optimism.

I’ll grant you #1, though it’s already been well chewed over where how vulnerable Stanford was without a pg. they lost to Texas simply for this reason, too. Surely SC is better than Texas, right? (Lol)

As for #2, using the same sorts of evidence you’ve just cited, we already know the new girls can — Azzi and Caroline have already shown they can torch opponents, and they can dominate opposing guards on both ends of the court. Can Lou do this, too? That remains to be seen, but we already know that Azzi and Caroline are proven commodities and better than anything SC has to offer. [injury questions, blah blah blah] That is, without even asking about the newest girls, we already know we can field a competitive starting five to anything SC can put out there. The question marks in our squad only concern how much more the new kids can contribute.

And since this is a UConn fan forum, you’ll have to grant us the confidence that the new kids will be able to contribute a lot.

Yes. But neither proved able to be a significant impact against SC in both games they played last year. SC has girls (returners) to include Freshmen from last year who not only competed but stymied Azzi and Ducharme. I grant you the optimism as you should have for your team. Just saying SC will put the most proven talent on the floor of any returning team in womens college basketball. I like your takes on your team if I wanted to view it in a positive manner. The only thing I disagree with is those that think that incoming freshman in the front line will somehow be better that Olivia Nelson-Ododa, and that the new starters will be better than Christyn Williams and Evina Westbrook. Maybe it is not for me to see. Just curious.

 

[Alydar]

In my heart, and despite the departure of three starters (or 2 1/2 if one wishes to split hairs), I believe this years edition is a better team than last years.
Big difference in the front line- big difference.
Dorka more experienced in UCONN system- Aayliah primed for major step forward, lots of hungry new size competing for court time ( will elevate level and energy of entire big brigade)
Despite Paige’s absence- stellar group of backcourt athletes.
It won’t be easy, and I think UCONN’s style of play will be substantially modified from that we are accustomed to.
Last year’s returners showed me tons of heart-which along with “size” is not possible to teach.
Can’t wait!

The huge difference in the injury from last year (hopefullly) is that this year it happened in the summer, not 3 weeks into the season. And (hopefully) they won't lose their 2nd and 3rd pg's for an extended time. It's tough to develop any team consistency when you don't even know who will be playing.
I totally agree that this year's team will be much better than last year. There's more talent and athleticism arriving than departed.

 

[Alydar]

Yes. But neither proved able to be a significant impact against SC in both games they played last year. SC has girls (returners) to include Freshmen from last year who not only competed but stymied Azzi and Ducharme. I grant you the optimism as you should have for your team. Just saying SC will put the most proven talent on the floor of any returning team in womens college basketball. I like your takes on your team if I wanted to view it in a positive manner. The only thing I disagree with is those that think that incoming freshman in the front line will somehow be better that Olivia Nelson-Ododa, and that the new starters will be better than Christyn Williams and Evina Westbrook. Maybe it is not for me to see. Just curious.

By the end of the season Westbrook had already been replaced by Fudd. There won't be new starters at guard next year like at SCar. Muhl started games as a freshman and as a sophomore. In fact none of the new players are currently expected to start. The question is whether they will get minutes. Your new pg's will be expected to lead the team as a starter from day 1. Now they may both be AA's next year. I'm not predicting how they will play, just that a new pg on a team is always a question mark, especially if one of them is coming off an ACL.

Stanford brought back most of their championship team like you are doing. Except, like SCar, they had to replace their pg.

 

[GEAinAustin]

U Conn could loose their # 2, and #3 point guards and still win the national championship. Agree that more talent came in than left.

 

[jabstep]

I agree that Liv will be missed. In the first game against SC she was controlling the lane and blocking shots and we were running and scoring in transition. In the 2nd half we had to rely on our half court offense. SC has very good defenders and except for Paige we have trouble scoring against SC. In the championship game we got off to a lousy start because we had no backup bigs. We were standing with our hands in the air trying not to get into foul trouble. Meanwhile SC pounded the boards and took a lead we could not overcome. The year before Aubrey outplayed Saxton we missed her. Without Dorka, Liv and Aaliyah had to be overly careful.
This years game is hard to predict without knowing everyone's health. I think Caroline Lou and Azzi can get points against SC better then Evina and Christyn did.
We should have enough bigs to bang with SC. Dorka Aaliyah, Aubrey, Amari, Ice and Patterson can compete with SC. We may have some dangerous outside shooting and could force Boston away from the basket which I think might be the key to beating them. Ice and Amari I know can shoot. Dorka and Aaliyah can make some too.
Let the games begin!!!!!

 

[GEAinAustin]

Jabstep agree with you, except your evaluation of Liv. This year's front court is more talented and deeper than in recent years .

 

[Bone Dog]

But neither proved able to be a significant impact against SC in both games they played last year. SC has girls (returners) to include Freshmen from last year who not only competed but stymied Azzi and Ducharme.

Not so fast, pardner. I already handled the outlier NC game in my comment: [injury questions, blah blah blah]. We surely don't need to go down that rabbit hole again, do we? And as for your second suggestion, if I weren't such a hometown fan, I could credibly say, "Stymied? Pfffft." Watch some tape. That's a bit like the little boy who comes home and says, "Mommy, guess what? Me and daddy killed the bear." Yes, on a day when we had next to zero frontline depth, Azzi with the flu and an injured Caroline had trouble getting open. And it wasn't your returning freshmen who even did that -- it was mainly Brea Beal and Zia Cooke. But two years ago, Beal had the unfortunate assignment of defending Paige, and got torched. If you think Azzi won't be able to do the same, you have a very short memory. Or maybe you think Zia can cover her, lol. Or Amihere? Hahahaha! I'm confident the rematch will look a lot different in the back court. I think it's an open question what will happen in the front court.

And just to be clear, in that game two years ago, SC probably should have won. It came down to a muffed put-back by Boston, and several key turnovers by Henderson. I mean Paige single-handedly outplayed the entire SC squad, but that's a lot of talent to overcome, and Olivia and Aaliyah were not really a match for Boston. It's a different Aaliyah this year. I also think SC probably should have beaten Stanford in that year's Final Four match -- again, another muffed put-back lost a game that was already won. I know Boston took an important lesson from those experiences and Dawn challenged her to improve her stamina, and she became awesome last year.

Here's an experiment for you: go to the SC boards and try to make the case I just did and see what sort of reaction you get there.

 

[jdote33]

That is fine and I always look forward to the battles between SC and Uconn. Maybe another National Championship bout. (The sequel. lol). Two things I kind of disagree with. One, Johnson was already playing the first two games and expected to split time with Henderson because of her talent level and court vision displayed in the pre-season. If you know Dawn, it is hard for a freshmen to be granted that rope so early, thus I expect Raven to fit in well with the starters. Also South Carolina beat Stanford, and a few other highly ranked teams with Henderson out and no availability of Raven either. Two, Uconn's run to the final was very impressive, but Paige was a big portion of the offensive output. Can the new girls and replacements provide the offensive output needed for Uconn to duplicate the feat. All big questions to be answered as this season unfolds.

I swore Henderson was pretty big time in the Stanford game. Might've been one of her first game back from injury. That's what I think was underrated about her, she's so talented if ur an opposing fan u just had to hope she had an off night. She could get anywhere on the floor, just a bit streaky as a shooter.
I think SC having 4 of 5 starters back is big time. I didn't love how they used Cardoso last year but if it ends in a natty I guess there's not much to complain about.
I just hope Raven is healthy when the season starts.
In any event, Im optimistic about Uconns forwards, a little bit worried about center play but I do think Ice and Amari can contribute. Im just concerned about rhythm and minutes at center. I think talent wise, Dorka, ice, Amari are pretty close, so dividing up the minutes could be challenging

 

[Reypl21]

I swore Henderson was pretty big time in the Stanford game. Might've been one of her first game back from injury. That's what I think was underrated about her, she's so talented if ur an opposing fan u just had to hope she had an off night. She could get anywhere on the floor, just a bit streaky as a shooter.
I think SC having 4 of 5 starters back is big time. I didn't love how they used Cardoso last year but if it ends in a natty I guess there's not much to complain about.
I just hope Raven is healthy when the season starts.
In any event, Im optimistic about Uconns forwards, a little bit worried about center play but I do think Ice and Amari can contribute. Im just concerned about rhythm and minutes at center. I think talent wise, Dorka, ice, Amari are pretty close, so dividing up the minutes could be challenging

South Carolina is going to miss Henderson against the elite teams they play. She was huge against Stanford and obviously huge in the championship game. Cooke is going to have to step up her efficiency next year.

 

[oldhusky]

I think comparing what is better or worse compared to last year's championship game is largely irrelevant. Being better if healthy this year than the team we put on the floor in the championship game is pretty much a given despite missing Paige. The team on the floor that night had one healthy big that was normally part of the rotation (Aaliyah). Dorka was injured in the elite 8 and Liv played with a groin injury. We even used Amari some, even though she was not trusted in meaning-full minutes until that game.

Remember this is against the team with the best big in the country (Boston), probably the best backup C in the country, and the team that outrebounded their opponents by the biggest margin. Aaliyah and injured Liv, an untested Amari, and Evina playing small ball against the country's best bigs was a matchup we could never win upfront.

Short of bad injuries to our bigs similar to what happened to our guards last year, we will have far more talented bodies to take on that challenge up front. We frankly didn't have a chance in that championship game if we knew in advance that Liv was injured and Azzi was sick. Dorka being out made us significant underdogs because we only used a three big rotation anyway, but an injured Liv was like pouring gasoline on the fire.

In the backcourt not having Paige is obviously a big blow, but remember Paige wasn't fully recovered. What we had in the championship game was a far less than 100% Paige and a sick Azzi. Paige will be gone but Azzi presumably won't be sick, be healthier, and presumably make a significant sophomore jump, as should Caroline for that matter. In fact both Azzi and Caroline had better PER (player efficiency ratings) stats last year as freshmen than both Christyn and Evina. So it is not much of a question of if they can be better than their departed seniors, they were probably already better, and should be significantly better in subsequent years.

The championship game was not a fair comparison. Of course we were not competitive given the circumstances,, how could we be? More troubling to me was the decisive SC victory in the Bahamas. Considering the seasons and both head to head matchups, I think we have to conclude that SC was the clearly better team, but we had legitimate excuses in the championship game.

We need better play from our bigs and at least close the gap between the two teams upfront. With the addition of Ice and Ayanna, the return of Aubrey, a potential breakout from Amari, and an Aaliyah that may resemble her freshmen more than her sophomore year, there are plenty of candidates to provide that upgrade.

In the backcourt we "could" be as good, even without Paige. Last year Paige and Azzi were both playing less than 100% and missed close to half the season. Paige hurts alot, but Azzi could play close to twice as many minutes total this season than last, play in a healthier state, and with a nice jump in effectiveness with one year of experience. Same point on healthier and improvement from Caroline. I say "could" because even with the addition of Inez we are vulnerable in the backcourt. As it is, either Inez or a PF playing SF (Aubrey or Ayanna) will probably be necessary for 5 or 6 minutes a game. With any injury to the main four guards, one of those players becomes at 15-20 minutes a game player and a big question mark.

I think we have a ways to go to match SC upfront, but a big gap last year can be reduced to a minor one this year if a few people come thru. In the backcourt I think on paper we should be better even with Paige out, due to Azzi and Caroline improving from already good freshmen seasons, and the addition of a proven transfer in Lou, but we need to stay healthy there.

 

[Bone Dog]

I think we have a ways to go to match SC upfront, but a big gap last year can be reduced to a minor one this year if a few people come thru. In the backcourt I think on paper we should be better even with Paige out, due to Azzi and Caroline improving from already good freshmen seasons, and the addition of a proven transfer in Lou, but we need to stay healthy there.

I share your sentiments and my read is pretty much the same. We’re all indulging these speculations because an SC fan has been teasing us with sour memories of that NC game. He’s welcome, of course, but mainly because the future looks sweet to us.

We will struggle containing Boston, and won’t entirely succeed. But we don’t need to if our back court plays up to potential, because that potential far exceeds anything SC can hope for. It’s ironic that Dawn, a historically great guard in her own right, should be so good at developing front court talent, and uneven in developing back court talent. It’s not that she can’t recruit them either.

The danger of returning most of the previous year’s NC team is it’s hard to grow from there. I suspect SC will struggle finding an identity this year, not because they lost Henderson, though that will hurt, but because they haven’t added any significant personalities to a solid roster. Who will they be on the court this year?

Think of the Stewie years. Those teams were great and yet distinctively different each year. The common thread was Stewie and Morgan.

 

[shiverz45]

South Carolina is going to miss Henderson against the elite teams they play. She was huge against Stanford and obviously huge in the championship game. Cooke is going to have to step up her efficiency next year.

We will miss Henderson similar to how we missed Ty Harris. It will take some adjustment at first but on paper and potential Raven might end up being better than the both of them.

 

[visitingcock]

Jump the &;$$/(&@$) ball already!

Tired of beating each other on paper
!

 

[SCspur]

I share your sentiments and my read is pretty much the same. We’re all indulging these speculations because an SC fan has been teasing us with sour memories of that NC game. He’s welcome, of course, but mainly because the future looks sweet to us.

We will struggle containing Boston, and won’t entirely succeed. But we don’t need to if our back court plays up to potential, because that potential far exceeds anything SC can hope for. It’s ironic that Dawn, a historically great guard in her own right, should be so good at developing front court talent, and uneven in developing back court talent. It’s not that she can’t recruit them either.

The danger of returning most of the previous year’s NC team is it’s hard to grow from there. I suspect SC will struggle finding an identity this year, not because they lost Henderson, though that will hurt, but because they haven’t added any significant personalities to a solid roster. Who will they be on the court this year?

Think of the Stewie years. Those teams were great and yet distinctively different each year. The common thread was Stewie and Morgan.

So I guess UConn is the only team that has room to grow? SC can’t get better or elevate because they won already and because they have the same players they won’t be different? UConn has a backcourt SC can’t come close to? Did I get that correct? Lol I have so many problems with a post like this but I will refrain until the season actually starts and you can see how bad a take this or your previous ones are.

 

[Bone Dog]

So I guess UConn is the only team that has room to grow? SC can’t get better or elevate because they won already and because they have the same players they won’t be different? UConn has a backcourt SC can’t come close to? Did I get that correct? Lol I have so many problems with a post like this but I will refrain until the season actually starts and you can see how bad a take this or your previous ones are.

IKR. It seems unfair, but history shows it to be true: it's hard to change with the same personnel.

Also unfair is the fact that champions have no patience with speculation. Why? Because the status quo is what they represent, and speculation -- even the harmless dreaming of fans -- always asks how the world will be different. But champions who are forced to turnover a lot of players are typically more comfortable with speculation.

As for whether the UConn guards are better, you realize this is a UConn board, right? Surely you don't expect a UConn fan on a UConn board to say both that Boston is better and that SC's guards are better... even if it were true. Lol. Come to your senses, man.

Here's a thought experiment for you: go to the SC board and try to explain why UConn was better than the NC game might suggest, that but for illness and injury they might have won that game, etc,... and see how many folks respond "I have so many problems with a post like this." Hahahahaha!

 

[SCspur]

IKR. It seems unfair, but history shows it to be true: it's hard to change with the same personnel.

Also unfair is the fact that champions have no patience with speculation. Why? Because the status quo is what they represent, and speculation -- even the harmless dreaming of fans -- always asks how the world will be different. But champions who are forced to turnover a lot of players are typically more comfortable with speculation.

As for whether the UConn guards are better, you realize this is a UConn board, right? Surely you don't expect a UConn fan on a UConn board to say both that Boston is better and that SC's guards are better... even if it were true. Lol. Come to your senses, man.

Here's a thought experiment for you: go to the SC board and try to explain why UConn was better than the NC game might suggest, that but for illness and injury they might have won that game, etc,... and see how many folks respond "I have so many problems with a post like this." Hahahahaha!

Didn’t need an explanation I already know what it is lmaooo can’t wait for the season to start.

 

[Bone Dog]

Didn’t need an explanation I already know what it is lmaooo can’t wait for the season to start.

Oh, but you did, as is apparent. Lol.
I also can hardly wait for the season to start. So much awesomeness awaits us all.

 

[sharris25]

Oh, but you did, as is apparent. Lol.
I also can hardly wait for the season to start. So much awesomeness awaits us all.

I can't wait. Enough with the talking. Dorka, a better rebounder[ Defender than Olivia. Okay. Saxton will take that statement. Aubrey A better scorer at the three to handle Beal's defense and . Okay. Looking forward to seeing that. And Muhl/Fudd Backcourt better than Paige/Williams backcourt offensively/defensively. And two freshmen will come in and handle or dominate Cardoso/Amihere/ Feagin and Ashlyn Watkins who frustrated Betts (Incoming #1 player in Jordan Brand Game). Carolina also added Talaysia Cooper, elite guard who was the likely runner up MVP candidate with 15pts in McDAA Game. Glad talking season is Almost over. We will finally get to see SC who brings back almost their entire roster against all of the potentially better, and improved rosters.

 

[HuskyNan]

I can't wait. Enough with the talking. Dorka, a better rebounder[ Defender than Olivia. Okay. Saxton will take that statement. Aubrey A better scorer at the three to handle Beal's defense and . Okay. Looking forward to seeing that. And Muhl/Fudd Backcourt better than Paige/Williams backcourt offensively/defensively. And two freshmen will come in and handle or dominate Cardoso/Amihere/ Feagin and Ashlyn Watkins who frustrated Betts (Incoming #1 player in Jordan Brand Game). Carolina also added Talaysia Cooper, elite guard who was the likely runner up MVP candidate with 15pts in McDAA Game. Glad talking season is Almost over. We will finally get to see SC who brings back almost their entire roster against all of the potentially better, and improved rosters.

You know you’re on the UConn board,right? We’re allowed to like our players more than yours here. If you’re looking for the General women’s board, it’s here

 

[visitingcock]

You know you’re on the UConn board,right? We’re allowed to like our players more than yours here. If you’re looking for the General women’s board, it’s here

Seventh post here. None in the Gamecock thread on the General Board. S/he might not know about the General Board.

@sharris25

Gamecocks 2022-2023, part two

https://the-boneyard.com/threads/gamecocks-2022-23-part-one.180873/

the-boneyard.com

Thread has been slow lately. Help us out sharris

 

[Bald Husky]

SC has to develop a PG to run a great team to the NC. UConn has to develop a front court tandem to back up our potentially great back court to win the NC. Both teams are loaded, but both teams still need time to fine tune the team that will be playing in March. I think it is only fitting that they don't play each other until February, as the teams that show up then will be the teams that show up for the Big Dance. Lets not get ahead of ourselves, as there are other great teams awaiting both schools ahead of their February matchup. We may be playing as many as 5 top ten teams before that, so every one of them will be a test as to how good we are at the time, and eventually how good we can be. There are a lot of question marks of what players will step up, the front line, the new wings and guards. We only have Northeastern to find out some players potential. No matter how the early games end up, the question will be which of these players will develop into the players we will need to pull off the NC in April. It may take a good part of the season for some, so we have to be patient along the way. Remember, the NC isn't won or lost in November.