OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[CONN78SEJ]

UNC has a perennially good football program that sold out every game this year in a 50k+ stadium in a football state. They will be just fine in a P2 conference (especially the B10) and will easily come up with the buyout $ from their massive base of athletic givers/P2 money. They aren’t taking any partial share either. We are not even in their stratosphere with the exception of tops bball. Their women’s/ non-rev sports are in constant contention for NCs. Top to bottom arguably the best athletic department in the country.

Really? I didn’t know you had so many great athletes, sorry. Does that include the thousands of student/athletes that got passing grades for classes they never went to?

 

[upstater]

It does matter - it's going to help their settlement cause.

There can never be a settlement. If you do the math, ESPN is on the hook for an incredible amount of money.

The total that FSU owes is dwarfed by the amount that will be lost in there's a settlement.

Therefore, there won't be a settlement.

They'll go to the mats for this because the alternative is a pittance (split of, let's say, $100m from FSU) versus a loss of $40m annually per school.

 

[CONN78SEJ]

This is not going to court. The conference is made up of individual schools - schools that will go off and get themselves positioned for life away from the ACC. The conference as we know it will implode once 8 schools find landing spots. The remnants will expand in an effort to be the best of the non-power conferences (i.e. B1G, SEC and Big12).

……….and all those 8 schools will leave and just ignore paying the GOR and dilute other conferences, with little to offer? Any conference that accepts any of those schools would immediately open themselves up to complicity in any breach of contract lawsuit and there are anti-trust implications as well. Congress and the federal courts would step in immediately. The remaining schools AND the cities they reside in will sue the leaving schools and those cities will remind the feds of their devastated local economies, and what happens to the ACC Network and ESPN when they lose millions? The anti trust implications are huge, the Feds will not allow the SEC and B1G to become modern day versions of Standard Oil and US Steel.

 

[Rdkid]

Really? I didn’t know you had so many great athletes, sorry. Does that include the thousands of student/athletes that got passing grades for classes they never went to?

Not sure what your point is in relation to my point as to their athletic success and P2 pursuits, but okay pardner. And my team is UConn.

 

[Waquoit]

had forgotten about that - good point. We would have packed that place.

And won

 

[UConnJim]

There can never be a settlement. If you do the math, ESPN is on the hook for an incredible amount of money.

The total that FSU owes is dwarfed by the amount that will be lost in there's a settlement.

Therefore, there won't be a settlement.

They'll go to the mats for this because the alternative is a pittance (split of, let's say, $100m from FSU) versus a loss of $40m annually per school.

Personally, I think there will be a settlement as schools will start looking out for themselves instead of tying their fate to what happens with the ACC. Some ACC schools have already put out feelers and think they have a spot to move to and some are figuring out they have no place to go. Why wouldn't Pitt and Louisville move to the Big 12 to make the same money (obviously the exit fee comes into play) if the biggest ACC brands look like they are leaving?

ESPN has an option to renew the ACC contract after 2027, so the only guaranteed money is until then. You have to wonder, why hasn't ESPN renewed the ACC contract?

If ESPN wants to save money, they can allow the ACC to split up, send 4 schools to the SEC, 4 to the Big 12, and 2 to the Big 10. So, they take the best brands to the SEC at a markup and 4 to the Big 12 at about what they are paying now, lose 2 to FOX and the Big 10 and end up paying less money overall. Why wouldn't ESPN allow that?

 

[NE Football]

FSU needed to raise these objections prior to signing the GOR. Instead they signed the GOR twice and received hundreds of millions of dollars. They might very well lack standing to bring this suit.

The consideration in 2016 was the formation of the ACCN. FSU’s options could be a 50% share in the B1G like Washington & Oregon or more likely if they can create a lot of doubt in the GOR a new deal with the ACC.

ESPN needs the ACC’s content given that they have lost the B1G and don’t have a huge stake in the Big 12. They make a lot of money from the ACCN as well. They have a lot invested in the success of the ACC

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

……….and all those 8 schools will leave and just ignore paying the GOR and dilute other conferences, with little to offer? Any conference that accepts any of those schools would immediately open themselves up to complicity in any breach of contract lawsuit and there are anti-trust implications as well. Congress and the federal courts would step in immediately. The remaining schools AND the cities they reside in will sue the leaving schools and those cities will remind the feds of their devastated local economies, and what happens to the ACC Network and ESPN when they lose millions? The anti trust implications are huge, the Feds will not allow the SEC and B1G to become modern day versions of Standard Oil and US Steel.

Pretty sure the bylaws allow for 8 schools to dissolve the conference.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

There can never be a settlement. If you do the math, ESPN is on the hook for an incredible amount of money.

The total that FSU owes is dwarfed by the amount that will be lost in there's a settlement.

Therefore, there won't be a settlement.

They'll go to the mats for this because the alternative is a pittance (split of, let's say, $100m from FSU) versus a loss of $40m annually per school.

ESPN has an out by not extending the contract.

 

[upstater]

Personally, I think there will be a settlement as schools will start looking out for themselves instead of tying their fate to what happens with the ACC. Some ACC schools have already put out feelers and think they have a spot to move to and some are figuring out they have no place to go. Why wouldn't Pitt and Louisville move to the Big 12 to make the same money (obviously the exit fee comes into play) if the biggest ACC brands look like they are leaving?

ESPN has an option to renew the ACC contract after 2027, so the only guaranteed money is until then. You have to wonder, why hasn't ESPN renewed the ACC contract?

If ESPN wants to save money, they can allow the ACC to split up, send 4 schools to the SEC, 4 to the Big 12, and 2 to the Big 10. So, they take the best brands to the SEC at a markup and 4 to the Big 12 at about what they are paying now, lose 2 to FOX and the Big 10 and end up paying less money overall. Why wouldn't ESPN allow that?

There won't be enough schools with landing spots to break up the conference. You need more than 7 schools to scatter.

And by the way--the Big12 is going to make a lot less than the ACC over the next decade. The ACCs contract is more lucrative.

ESPN having an option after 2027 does not mean it gets to end the contract. The option is to extend past 2036. That money is seriously guaranteed for the next 12-13 years. ESPN is on the hook for an outrageous amount of money and the B12 isn't strong enough to pull schools beyond the 4 added to the B1G and SEC.

 

[upstater]

ESPN has an out by not extending the contract.

The contract runs to 2036. I never even imagined that ESPN would extend it beyond that. I was sure they wouldn't.

 

[upstater]

Pretty sure the bylaws allow for 8 schools to dissolve the conference.

You think the B1G and SEC are taking 8 schools between them?

I seriously doubt that.

The B12 has a smaller payout over the next 12-13 years than the ACC. When you add in negotiated exit fees and penalties, lost conference funds, that would be a big blow for any school not added to the SEC/B1G.

Let's imagine FSU, Clemson, UNC and Virginia all find a seat.

Name another 4 schools that would be added to the SEC and B1G. I see one more school MAX to the B1G because they'll be adding Notre Dame (which isn't one of the needed ACC 8). Which school is that?

Then name the 4 additional schools to the SEC beyond FSU and Clemson.

 

[DFW HOYA]

Four to the Big 10: UNC, Virginia, FSU, Notre Dame (exc. football for now)
Two to the SEC: Clemson, Miami
Four to the Big 12: Georgia Tech, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech

What's left:
Boston College
Cal
Duke
Pitt
SMU
Stanford
Syracuse
Wake Forest

 

[UConnJim]

Four to the Big 10: UNC, Virginia, FSU, Notre Dame (exc. football for now)
Two to the SEC: Clemson, Miami
Four to the Big 12: Georgia Tech, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech

What's left:
Boston College
Cal
Duke
Pitt
SMU
Stanford
Syracuse
Wake Forest

Get to 20 school conferences:

10 ACC schools

Big 12: Pitt, Louisville, VT, NC St.

SEC: Clemson, FSU, GT, UNC

Big 10: UVa, Notre Dame

Remaining: BC, Syracuse, Wake Forest, Duke, Miami, SMU, Cal, Stanford

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

You think the B1G and SEC are taking 8 schools between them?

I seriously doubt that.

The B12 has a smaller payout over the next 12-13 years than the ACC. When you add in negotiated exit fees and penalties, lost conference funds, that would be a big blow for any school not added to the SEC/B1G.

Let's imagine FSU, Clemson, UNC and Virginia all find a seat.

Name another 4 schools that would be added to the SEC and B1G. I see one more school MAX to the B1G because they'll be adding Notre Dame (which isn't one of the needed ACC 8). Which school is that?

Then name the 4 additional schools to the SEC beyond FSU and Clemson.

2 go to B1G, 2 go to SEC, 4 go to Big12, Notre Dame pulls out.

 

[upstater]

Four to the Big 10: UNC, Virginia, FSU, Notre Dame (exc. football for now)
Two to the SEC: Clemson, Miami
Four to the Big 12: Georgia Tech, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech

What's left:
Boston College
Cal
Duke
Pitt
SMU
Stanford
Syracuse
Wake Forest

Why is Georgia Tech seeking a lot less money?

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The contract runs to 2036. I never even imagined that ESPN would extend it beyond that. I was sure they wouldn't.

ESPN can opt to not renew in 2027. If the ACC losses its top 4-8 programs in the next couple of years they will not renew. That was the biggest surprise nugget that came out of last week's FSU/ACC lawsuit filings. That's pivotal to say the least.

 

[upstater]

2 go to B1G, 2 go to SEC, 4 go to Big12, Notre Dame pulls out.

Why do schools want to go to the B12? There's a lot less money for them.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Why is Georgia Tech seeking a lot less money?

Stability?

 

[upstater]

ESPN can opt to not renew in 2027. If the ACC losses its top 4-8 programs in the next couple of years they will not renew. That was the biggest surprise nugget that came out of last week's FSU/ACC lawsuit filings. That's pivotal to say the least.

Everyone has always known that.

This is what we're talking about.

If teams leave, the ESPN contract is kaput. I thought you were saying that ESPN could opt out if the league remains as currently constituted.

This is why teams will not negotiate a settlement with FSU.

This is the entire basis of what we're talking about.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Why do schools want to go to the B12? There's a lot less money for them.

Stability. Don't worry about the Big12 payout. They're much more likely to grow their payouts over time as they're far more innovative and likely to grow their one than the laissez faire ACC.

 

[upstater]

Stability?

13 years is a very long time.

13 years of a lot less money and you don't know what the future holds with a conference of 20 schools many of which have barely any viewers.

At the end of the B12 contract, you have no more stability than you do at the end of the ACC contract.

 

[upstater]

Stability. Don't worry about the Big12 payout. They're much more likely to grow their payouts over time as they're far more innovative and likely to grow their one than the laissez faire ACC.

The ACC payout is GUARANTEED to grow through 2036.

All the ACC schools are in heavily populated areas. The ACC is infinitely more valuable than the Plains and Desert schools.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

Everyone has always known that.

This is what we're talking about.

If teams leave, the ESPN contract is kaput. I thought you were saying that ESPN could opt out if the league remains as currently constituted.

This is why teams will not negotiate a settlement with FSU.

This is the entire basis of what we're talking about.

No one other than ACC leaders knew about ESPN's 2027 option until the end of last week. I imagine that was in the thinking of the Magnificent 7. We can agree to disagree, but I think there are 7 or 8 of the top ACC FB schools that have been talking to the three Power conferences and lining up their exit scenarios and decision trees. This is not a case of 2 ACC members acting out on their own. Case in point is the PAC implosion. This will be different but similar.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

The ACC payout is GUARANTEED to grow through 2036.

All the ACC schools are in heavily populated areas. The ACC is infinitely more valuable than the Plains and Desert schools.

You're convinced the ACC is going to survive (and it seems like you think they're in a better position than the Big12). I disagree. Why? 25% of the ACC's tv value comes from 2 schools - FSU and Clemson. It's too top-heavy and not valuable enough overall to survive long term as currently constituted.