OT: Florida State to sue ACC over GOR

[noeynox]

That's not really what "performance" means unless you enter a contract with both sides agreeing to do the bare minimum required. When the contracts were signed there were 5 "Power" conferences and I'm sure the expectations were that both sides would perform as such. FSU did. The ACC and espn have not. If they had, the ACC would still be a Power conference.

This is strange. How is the ACC NOT a power conference?

 

[HuskyHawk]

That's not really what "performance" means unless you enter a contract with both sides agreeing to do the bare minimum required. When the contracts were signed there were 5 "Power" conferences and I'm sure the expectations were that both sides would perform as such. FSU did. The ACC and espn have not. If they had, the ACC would still be a Power conference.

It is still a power conference. It won championships in 2013, 2016 and 2018. In that stretch the B1G has won two. The old Pac hasn't won one since 2004 (and that was vacated). The Big XII last won one in 2005. Note that the Pac and Big XII schools that have won in this century are all in the B1G or SEC now.

Looking at current lineups and schools that won a football NC in this century
SEC: 16 wins by 8 different schools
B1G: 5 wins by 3 schools (counting the vacated USC win and treating 2003 as split)
ACC: 4 wins by 3 schools
Big XII: zero wins.

The P2 is a revenue concept. In terms of actual football, the SEC is better than the field. If you could some "splits" for UCF, Oklahoma State, Miami, Missouri and Utah it gets slightly better for the field.

 

[noeynox]

It is still a power conference. It won championships in 2013, 2016 and 2018. In that stretch the B1G has won two. The old Pac hasn't won one since 2004 (and that was vacated). The Big XII last won one in 2005. Note that the Pac and Big XII schools that have won in this century are all in the B1G or SEC now.

Looking at current lineups and schools that won a football NC in this century
SEC: 16 wins by 8 different schools
B1G: 5 wins by 3 schools (counting the vacated USC win and treating 2003 as split)
ACC: 4 wins by 3 schools
Big XII: zero wins.

The P2 is a revenue concept. In terms of actual football, the SEC is better than the field. If you could some "splits" for UCF, Oklahoma State, Miami, Missouri and Utah it gets slightly better for the field.

Seems like the only metric he is going by is that the SEC and Big Ten pay their schools more. But Power/Autonomy status is an official designation. The PAC 12 had their's removed. Putting together a patchwork conference is going NOT to get them that back automatically.

 

[Kolumbo]

It is still a power conference. It won championships in 2013, 2016 and 2018. In that stretch the B1G has won two. The old Pac hasn't won one since 2004 (and that was vacated). The Big XII last won one in 2005. Note that the Pac and Big XII schools that have won in this century are all in the B1G or SEC now.

Looking at current lineups and schools that won a football NC in this century
SEC: 16 wins by 8 different schools
B1G: 5 wins by 3 schools (counting the vacated USC win and treating 2003 as split)
ACC: 4 wins by 3 schools
Big XII: zero wins.

The P2 is a revenue concept. In terms of actual football, the SEC is better than the field. If you could some "splits" for UCF, Oklahoma State, Miami, Missouri and Utah it gets slightly better for the field.

It's been posted with regularity on these boards that there is really a P2 today. Your best teams don't sue to get out if you are truly a Power conference.

It's too early but I think based on today's rankings the playoffs would include:
6 SEC
3 B1G
1 ACC
1 Big XII
1 MAC

 

[huskymedic]

 

[HuskyHawk]

Live look at FSU

 

[Kolumbo]

At this point, even if FSU were to somehow win, many believe neither B1G nor SEC would take FSU. So it seems FSU would still be stuck in the ACC. It could however leave the door open for others to leave. So maybe FSU's best bet is to say nevermind, we're good.

 

[UConnDan97]

At this point, even if FSU were to somehow win, many believe neither B1G nor SEC would take FSU. So it seems FSU would still be stuck in the ACC. It could however leave the door open for others to leave. So maybe FSU's best bet is to say nevermind, we're good.

Do we have any reason to believe that neither the B1G or the SEC will take them??

I can't imagine any scenario where I would enter into a multimillion dollar litigation as an athletic department without having kicked those tires in advance. It would make zero sense to me.

To me, it's more likely that they have a very strong sense of where their new home will be (almost certainly one of those two conferences) and after having received that information have begun fighting the legal and public war...

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree. I think FSU would be a lock for one of them but many people have said FSU is not wanted. I don't know, I'm just regurgitating sheet.

I hear you, and I agree that it's likely a large amount of sheet...

 

[Kolumbo]

Do we have any reason to believe that neither the B1G or the SEC will take them??

I can't imagine any scenario where I would enter into a multimillion dollar litigation as an athletic department without having kicked those tires in advance. It would make zero sense to me.

To me, it's more likely that they have a very strong sense of where their new home will be (almost certainly one of those two conferences) and after having received that information have begun fighting the legal and public war...

I agree. I think FSU would be a lock for one of them but many people have said FSU is not wanted. I don't know, I'm just regurgitating sheet.

edit: but there have been various reports suggesting FSU would not be invited under certain conditions.
"Neither the SEC or Big Ten are likely to pursue Florida State as a candidate for expansion if the school leaves the ACC and that conference survives, according to Action Network's Brett McMurphy."

College football expansion: SEC, Big Ten don't want Florida State, per report

The latest speculation around college football realignment as Florida State looks to get out of the ACC, but neither the SEC or the Big Ten appear to be interes

www.si.com

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree. I think FSU would be a lock for one of them but many people have said FSU is not wanted. I don't know, I'm just regurgitating sheet.

edit: but there have been various reports suggesting FSU would not be invited under certain conditions.
"Neither the SEC or Big Ten are likely to pursue Florida State as a candidate for expansion if the school leaves the ACC and that conference survives, according to Action Network's Brett McMurphy."

College football expansion: SEC, Big Ten don't want Florida State, per report

The latest speculation around college football realignment as Florida State looks to get out of the ACC, but neither the SEC or the Big Ten appear to be interes

www.si.com

I'll believe it when I see it...

 

[storrsroars]

Do we have any reason to believe that neither the B1G or the SEC will take them??

I can't imagine any scenario where I would enter into a multimillion dollar litigation as an athletic department without having kicked those tires in advance. It would make zero sense to me.

To me, it's more likely that they have a very strong sense of where their new home will be (almost certainly one of those two conferences) and after having received that information have begun fighting the legal and public war...

No AAU = no B1G. B1G wants UNC & UVA.

I have read multiple places that SEC members like 16 teams and feel no pressure to add.

 

[UConnDan97]

No AAU = no B1G. B1G wants UNC & UVA.

I have read multiple places that SEC members like 16 teams and feel no pressure to add.

That's an illusion. It's a convenient argument that the B1G has held onto, but there is no legal prerequisite to be AAU to enter...

 

[UConnDan97]

No AAU = no B1G. B1G wants UNC & UVA.

I have read multiple places that SEC members like 16 teams and feel no pressure to add.

By the way, Nebraska is not an AAU school to the best of my knowledge, so...

 

[HuskyHawk]

By the way, Nebraska is not an AAU school to the best of my knowledge, so...

They were when they were admitted.

 

[UConnDan97]

They were when they were admitted.

And weren't kicked out after losing it. In other words, there is no prerequisite. The B1G presidents loved the idea of it, I'm sure.

But they love money more...

 

[HuskyHawk]

And weren't kicked out after losing it. In other words, there is no prerequisite. The B1G presidents loved the idea of it, I'm sure.

But they love money more...

I'm not sure FSU does anything to bring them any money. But that aside, FSU has improved its academic reputation pretty dramatically over the last 10-15 years. So it would probably have some appeal. Still, no non AAU has gotten an invite. Most of the original Big Ten go way back in AAU, to 1900 or 1908.

I really don't think anybody but the big XII wants FSU or Clemson. They are better off in the ACC. I think they'll get P2 money when the top programs break away from these conferences. The B1G would like FSU once they get rid of Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern (from a football perspective).

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I have a difficult time believing that tg he B1G would add a member who is clearly the second best asset in a state when they don't already have the best asset (U of Florida in in the SEC).

I also highly doubt that the SEC has any desire to add a school to a market where they already have a presence. The legacy that gave them Ole Miss/Miss St; Alabama/Auburn and Tennessee/Vanderbilt now appears to be less than desirable.

My personal belief is that FSU overplayed their hand by believing that all they needed to do was let the B1G and/or SEC know that they were on the market and an offer would be imminent. They have been hurt further by the changes in the market (Washington & Oregon joining the B1G at a discount, SMU joining the ACC basically for free). They may need to take a serious haircut to join a P-2 conference if one is willing to add them.

 

[baggerbob]

Do we have any reason to believe that neither the B1G or the SEC will take them??

I can't imagine any scenario where I would enter into a multimillion dollar litigation as an athletic department without having kicked those tires in advance. It would make zero sense to me.

To me, it's more likely that they have a very strong sense of where their new home will be (almost certainly one of those two conferences) and after having received that information have begun fighting the legal and public war...

There is no way any of Fox or ESPN is going to pay to have them join the Big or SEC after this. Neither of them need the headache.
When you sue the people who pay you, the door is shut behind you.

 

[UConnDan97]

There is no way any of Fox or ESPN is going to pay to have them join the Big or SEC after this. Neither of them need the headache.
When you sue the people who pay you, the door is shut behind you.

FOX will pay for it if they think ESPN will get it.

ESPN will pay for it if they think FOX will get it.

Live sports is one of the last havens left for the networks to charge a premium. We've seen this play out countless times before. In fact, one of the things that we had heard about hurting UConn to the Big12 was that FOX already had us in the Big East, so ESPN was going to have to pay for the move entirely. This is the tv world we live in...

 

[Kolumbo]

I'm not sure FSU does anything to bring them any money. But that aside, FSU has improved its academic reputation pretty dramatically over the last 10-15 years. So it would probably have some appeal. Still, no non AAU has gotten an invite. Most of the original Big Ten go way back in AAU, to 1900 or 1908.

I really don't think anybody but the big XII wants FSU or Clemson. They are better off in the ACC. I think they'll get P2 money when the top programs break away from these conferences. The B1G would like FSU once they get rid of Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern (from a football perspective).

I think FSU is close to AAU and given USF was just admitted, I think it will happen soon for FSU.

That's where I was going. If FSU were to get out of the ACC and only the Big 12 wanted FSU, I think FSU would have to stay in the ACC. it would be kind of embarrassing to go through all that trouble to stay in the ACC but it wouldn't make financial sense to go to the Big 12.

 

[BigTenFan]

And weren't kicked out after losing it. In other words, there is no prerequisite. The B1G presidents loved the idea of it, I'm sure.

But they love money more...

If they were to vote today- there is a good chance Nebraska would not be in the B1G10. I believe they lost AAU accreditation because the Medical School....which is high rated....moved

 

[storrsroars]

And weren't kicked out after losing it. In other words, there is no prerequisite. The B1G presidents loved the idea of it, I'm sure.

But they love money more...

Really? You're bringing back that tired old canard?

Sure, the B1G loves money. And that's why they're hoping some school beats the ACC in court so they can add UNC and UVA (or UNC and ND if ND feels it has to join a conference). FSU and Clemson don't fit academically or culturally and represent very small TV markets.

 

[UConnDan97]

Really? You're bringing back that tired old canard?

Sure, the B1G loves money. And that's why they're hoping some school beats the ACC in court so they can add UNC and UVA (or UNC and ND if ND feels it has to join a conference). FSU and Clemson don't fit academically or culturally and represent very small TV markets.

Yeah, that's why they added Nebraska.... because they fit culturally...

 

[ScottVib]

It was known Nebraska was getting the boot when they were added to the Big Ten.... Academics are a factor to the Big Ten, but the AAU membership is just one consideration.