Flagrants reviewed?

[geneticrex]

I watched the play numerous times.

There was ZERO 'entanglement'. Gabby's outstretched leg was purposefully grabbed, then tossed with authority and intent. It was absolutely not a situation where two players were attempting to seperate from some chance entanglement. The replay from under the basket is especially crystal.

Dirty pool by all accounts, which could have caused real damage to Gabby's knee, considering the torque generated. For a flagrant 2 and ejection, does a weapon have to be pulled???

 

[HoopsFan21]

I watched the play numerous times.

There was ZERO 'entanglement'. Gabby's outstretched leg was purposefully grabbed, then tossed with authority and intent. It was absolutely not a situation where two players were attempting to seperate from some chance entanglement. The replay from under the basket is especially crystal.

Dirty pool by all accounts, which could have caused real damage to Gabby's knee, considering the torque generated. For a flagrant 2 and ejection, does a weapon have to be pulled???

To get ejected you have to punch a player. That's pretty much the only way. I thought the same thing regarding the LSU player. They weren't tangled up, and there were other ways to avoid Gabby's leg. Step back, step around - there was simply no excuse for grabbing it and tossing it like that. Imagine what went through Gabby's mind as that was happening to her as someone that had to miss 2 years of basketball because of her knees? Next time we let Tuck take out one of theirs with a hard offensive foul or going for a rebound.

 

[BroadwayVa]

It is possible for the NCAA, conference, or school to review any incident for further action, but unlikely to occur except in fight situations. While it was really dangerous, especially given Gabby's medical history, I didn't think it was particularly malicious. Gabby's foot was up around the girl's midsection, not a typical situation, and she lifted and pushed it away - sort of a get this 'thing' out of here kind of move.

LSU 3 had a few decent, basketball type, options. Ignore the leg knowing it was not aggressive (it wasn't), realize by touching it (the leg) or pushing it away a foul may be called (it was) , moving away. What was done was vicious not normal, not sportsman like. If it had been done in the LSU league, I'm sure she would hear more about it and probably be excluded from a game or two in the conference.
I do not see this, especially the forceful pushing of Gabby towards the floor realizing Gabby was not in any stable physical condition during this one sided bout.
The leg at mid section height was not going to trip #3--did it forcefully strike #3? No it was not a typical condition--and #3 was NOT being attacked as Gabby was falling away from #3. It has been reviewed a dozen times by me and come away a vengeful and spiteful and "if we can beat them with talent ,we beat them physically" attitude. The General Sportsman like conduct rule---covers this unsportsman like attack.

 

[BroadwayVa]

To get ejected you have to punch a player. That's pretty much the only way. I thought the same thing regarding the LSU player. They weren't tangled up, and there were other ways to avoid Gabby's leg. Step back, step around - there was simply no excuse for grabbing it and tossing it like that. Imagine what went through Gabby's mind as that was happening to her as someone that had to miss 2 years of basketball because of her knees? Next time we let Tuck take out one of theirs with a hard offensive foul or going for a rebound.

It is good the #3 was sitting the remainder of the game--I wonder what Kia may have done. Shea, in her playing time, would have taken #3 out on the very next play. She has done it. OOOOP I was just moving too fast to stop as we collided.

 

[geneticrex]

To get ejected you have to punch a player. That's pretty much the only way. I thought the same thing regarding the LSU player. They weren't tangled up, and there were other ways to avoid Gabby's leg. Step back, step around - there was simply no excuse for grabbing it and tossing it like that. Imagine what went through Gabby's mind as that was happening to her as someone that had to miss 2 years of basketball because of her knees? Next time we let Tuck take out one of theirs with a hard offensive foul or going for a rebound.

So a headlock and the resultant noogie is merely a flagrant 1???

They tried to kill MY Gabby!!!

 

[Geno-ista]

I saw the game and saw the play. That was a flagrant 2 if I ever saw one. The LSU had her leg and tossed Gabby to the court WWE style. I'm glad she is doing OK. I heard she had two procedures on her knees.

Nice post- I think the terms are one of the few teams with enough offensive firepower to be dangerous to our huskies! Can't wait for the game!

 

[HoopsFan21]

It is good the #3 was sitting the remainder of the game--I wonder what Kia may have done. Shea, in her playing time, would have taken #3 out on the very next play. She has done it. OOOOP I was just moving too fast to stop as we collided.

Tuck's probably our best bet to lay a hurtin' on someone at 6' 2" and 190 lbs. Tuck the runaway truck!

 

[ndmb]

I watched the play numerous times.

There was ZERO 'entanglement'. Gabby's outstretched leg was purposefully grabbed, then tossed with authority and intent. It was absolutely not a situation where two players were attempting to seperate from some chance entanglement. The replay from under the basket is especially crystal.

Dirty pool by all accounts, which could have caused real damage to Gabby's knee, considering the torque generated. For a flagrant 2 and ejection, does a weapon have to be pulled???

Maybe we're not watching the same play? Gabby's leg got caught above the LSU player's right arm as she was obviously going for the rebound. After they got entangled, she threw Gabby's leg, but the initial contact was obviously unintentional.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

You know that more was involved in the play as Geno came right out with Rosemary Ragle toward Gabby! Normally Geno stays at the bench area and watches!

 

[Icebear]

Maybe we're not watching the same play? Gabby's leg got caught above the LSU player's right arm as she was obviously going for the rebound. After they got entangled, she threw Gabby's leg, but the initial contact was obviously unintentional.

This is not near an accurate description.

 

[ndmb]

This is not near an accurate description.

Feel free to clarify what part you disagree with.

 

[HuskyNan]

In a now deleted post, someone discussed ways to hurt an opposing player. Please, I certainly understand the anger but advocating deliberately hurting someone in retribution is beneath us.

 

[HoopsFan21]

Maybe we're not watching the same play? Gabby's leg got caught above the LSU player's right arm as she was obviously going for the rebound. After they got entangled, she threw Gabby's leg, but the initial contact was obviously unintentional.

So wouldn't the easiest thing be to lower your arm or pull your arm in towards your body so that gravity takes hold and Gabby's leg falls to the floor on its own? What exactly was the purpose of grabbing the leg and tossing it like that? Certainly that required a lot more effort than the alternatives.

 

[Icebear]

Feel free to clarify what part you disagree with.

Virtually, everything.

1) the LSU player engages Gabby's leg at a high waist height or slightly lower with one arm underneath it (slightly out of frame) and then the other arm is laid over top as it is brought up to chest high.
2) the leg lowers and then is raised higher again by the LSU player to chest height.
3) the LSU player then further lifts the leg as she folds the knee and tosses Gabby away as she turns into the play facing downcourt thus increasing the energy with which Gabby was thrown. In other words she put her body into the toss.
4) at any point all the LSU player needed to do was drop her right arm downward from underneath releasing it and Gabby's leg would have followed it free to the floor instead she applies significant energy lifting and tossing.
5) there is even more detail to be seen.

http://www.the-boneyard.com/threads/gabbyslam.85068/

 

[Kibitzer]

Tuck's probably our best bet to lay a hurtin' on someone at 6' 2" and 190 lbs. Tuck the runaway truck!

I hope you are not suggesting that Morgan might become some sort of an enforcer, a role fulfilled by designated hockey players. We don't need that.

 

[Icebear]

I hope you are not suggesting that Morgan might become some sort of an enforcer, a role fulfilled by designated hockey players. We don't need that.

Kib, Shea can't do it any more she is chained to the bench.

 

[Icebear]

Completely missed in any of this discussion is the foul that should have been called on the same LSU player for completely displacing Katie Lou under the boards at the start of the play.

 

[easttexastrash]

I hope you are not suggesting that Morgan might become some sort of an enforcer, a role fulfilled by designated hockey players. We don't need that.

Plus, that puts Tuck in a position of risking injury to herself. No player should be sent out to be an enforcer, considering they have no protection for their body like a hockey player has. However, I sure would have liked to have had an enforcer a few years back in a certain game in the NCAA tourney.

 

[Icebear]

Plus, that puts Tuck in a position of risking injury to herself. No player should be sent out to be an enforcer, considering they have no protection for their body like a hockey player has. However, I sure would have liked to have had an enforcer a few years back in a certain game in the NCAA tourney.

I thought Griner pretty much was.

 

[Biff]

Virtually, everything.

1) the LSU player engages Gabby's leg at a high waist height or slightly lower with one arm underneath it (slightly out of frame) and then the other arm is laid over top as it is brought up to chest high.
2) the leg lowers and then is raised higher again by the LSU player to chest height.
3) the LSU player then further lifts the leg as she folds the knee and tosses Gabby away as she turns into the play facing downcourt thus increasing the energy with which Gabby was thrown. In other words she put her body into the toss.
4) at any point all the LSU player needed to do was drop her right arm downward from underneath releasing it and Gabby's leg would have followed it free to the floor instead she applies significant energy lifting and tossing.
5) there is even more detail to be seen.

http://www.the-boneyard.com/threads/gabbyslam.85068/

I've linked a slo-mo high res commentated version of the lead up to the foul from the under the basket view.

 

[Icebear]

I've linked a slo-mo high res commentated version of the lead up to the foul from the under the basket view.

Thanks, biff, that is the sequence as I saw it and was attempting to describe it. Not sure I would say there was no foul at the beginning but certainly no flagrant foul. A foul can be called on a basketball play with contact as on many blocked shots or over the back on a rebound.

 

[VAMike23]

Thanks, biff, that is the sequence as I saw it and was attempting to describe it. Not sure I would say there was no foul at the beginning but certainly no flagrant foul. A foul can be called on a basketball play with contact as on many blocked shots or over the back on a rebound.

What foul would you consider (theoretically) calling on her at that point (= contact initiated or caused by a player which resulted in an advantage)? She was not responsible for Gabby's leg entering the space directly in front of her body. Had that been Gabby's (or another player's) arm extended in the same way, rather than the leg, and she then tried to reach for the ball in the air but could not because that arm was holding her own arms down, then the UCONN player would rightly be called for the foul, not LSU.

Certainly, what happens immediately after that is a flagrant foul but nothing before it was in any way a foul on the LSU player.

 

[j66kicker]

I've linked a slo-mo high res commentated version of the lead up to the foul from the under the basket view.

What I still can't figure out is why it was Gabby's LEFT knee that seemed to be the problem.....?

 

[HoopsFan21]

Thanks for the slow mo. It's pretty clear from that what happened. Of course we'll still have to hear the "but but she was just trying to free herself" excuse when all Bethel had to do to free herself was drop her arm to the side and Gabby's leg would have fallen to the floor on its own. Instead she chooses to lift Gabby's leg higher (instead of lower as someone who was truly trying to get free would do), and then toss it upward and outward as hard as she could. I'll let the reader determine the purpose of such a move.

 

[Icebear]

What foul would you consider (theoretically) calling on her at that point (= contact initiated or caused by a player which resulted in an advantage)? She was not responsible for Gabby's leg entering the space directly in front of her body. Had that been Gabby's (or another player's) arm extended in the same way, rather than the leg, and she then tried to reach for the ball in the air but could not because that arm was holding her own arms down, then the UCONN player would rightly be called for the foul, not LSU.

Certainly, what happens immediately after that is a flagrant foul but nothing before it was in any way a foul on the LSU player.

Simple illegal contact. Not all fouls happen from intentional contact. She had no necessity or right to grab Gabby's leg. Accidental to start but still a foul. It inhibited Gabby's ability to reach the rebound whether she was able reach it or not. Basically a holding penalty.