Finals Game 4

[HuskiesAllDay]

1st of all, Leonard is turning into a top talent in the league, so don't sell him short.
Second of all, LBJ went 10-17 from the field today, including 4 of 8 from 3 for 28 points. AND he had 8 rebounds.
The rest of the starters shot 11-34 and 0-5 from 3 for 38 points. Together they had 7 rebounds.

Straight comparison:

LeBron - 10/17, 4/8, 28, 8
Other 4 - 11/34, 0/5, 38, 7

I respect your opinion, but I just have to disagree with your conclusions - both of them. He didn't get "dominated," and the problem IS everybody else, and not him.

If nothing else is learned this year, the Heat MUST learn that their current formula is obsolete, and that, minimally, they need to seriously overhaul the team.

The point is when they win it's a lebron love fest for two days. When they lose it's everyone else's fault. It's not like lebron has dropped 35 8 and 8 like he did in Cleveland and they still lost. 22 4 and 5. 25 and 6. 28 and 2. Meh. Not moving the needle for lebron James.

He's playing with two hall of famers who are 30 years old Duncan and ginobili are way older than bosh and wade and everyone acts like his team is so washed up and he's got nothing. Ray is in better shape at 39 than every 25 year old in the league.

Lebron has been good in the finals. But not greatest ever good. Far from it. 7 turnovers last game. Averaging 4 assists this series. And yes Leonard has outplayed him handily the last two games. He has a nice stat line tonight but 80 percent of it was when they're down 20.

Again I'm not blaming him but in sick of the excuses and blaming everyone else. He can play much better. He's been very average for himself this finals

 

[superjohn]

Lebron's stats look good but where was he in the first half, he had a huge third quarter but the game was already out of hand, Leonard has outplayed him the last two games and you would be grasping at straws if you try and argue that. I will agree that Lebron isn't getting much help but people try and argue he's the best player of all-time, if he wants that moniker you don't get outplayed by Kawhi Leonard and get absolutely blown out at home two games in a row.

 

[champs99and04]

Spurs look great, no doubt about it. Look like the best team in the league.

But the Heat are mailing it in. You don't shoot 75% over a game unless the other team isn't playing D. Just doesn't happen. And now that the SAS are shooting lights out again, the conclusion is that the Heat are playing crappy D and just not bringing any energy.

The Heat experiment looks to be over. If LeBron is smart, he'll bolt the hell out of Miami ASAP. Allen and Wade will likely both be a bit worse next year. Bosch is good, but an inconsistent roll player. Everybody else is a scrub. LeBron needs to be on a young team with lots of energy. Don't even need a lot of talent. Just a bunch of guys who will play tenacious D and work on O to get open looks, and then actually hit a few of them. The Heat guards are just horrid.

And that thought about bring in Anthony? Holy flying sh-tballs. Bringing in a ball hog gunner loser who plays zero D is exactly the opposite of what Miami needs.

Miami definitely needs an infusion of youth, but this post seems like an overreaction. Bosh is a great player, probably one of the best 5 or 6 power forwards in the league - he just isn't featured in this offense because it is predicated on spreading the floor with shooters and allowing LeBron to work with the ball. He's an excellent center in spurts, but I have to wonder if asking him to bang on the block with 260 pouds wares on him over the course of an 82 game season. Additionally, Miami's trapping schemes probably tax him more than anybody, with him being the guy who is forced to expend all that energy on screen and rolls.

D-Wade is still a great player when he's rested. Problem is, you can't bank on him in a series like this when the games are every other day. Watch him come out Sunday with the extra rest and play great. Figuring out how to manage Wade going forward is going to be the toughest part of Riley's off-season.

There are definitely problems here, but if we're going to push the destruct button with a team who has been to the finals four straight years, I'd say you should hold off on that. Sometimes, no matter how good you are, you run into a great team playing great basketball. It doesn't hurt when they're also hungrier, deeper, and fresher than you are.

I agree with you in regards to Carmelo - I have no idea why the Heat would even pursue him. If you are going to convince the big three to take pay cuts in order to make room for another piece, somebody like Omar Asik makes a lot more sense (provided the Rockets make him available).

 

[aceboon]

1st of all, Leonard is turning into a top talent in the league, so don't sell him short.
Second of all, LBJ went 10-17 from the field today, including 4 of 8 from 3 for 28 points. AND he had 8 rebounds.
The rest of the starters shot 11-34 and 0-5 from 3 for 38 points. Together they had 7 rebounds.

Straight comparison:

LeBron - 10/17, 4/8, 28, 8
Other 4 - 11/34, 0/5, 38, 7

I respect your opinion, but I just have to disagree with your conclusions - both of them. He didn't get "dominated," and the problem IS everybody else, and not him.

If nothing else is learned this year, the Heat MUST learn that their current formula is obsolete, and that, minimally, they need to seriously overhaul the team.

if you're touting Lebron's stats after tonight's game as if to say he played a great game I'd have to question if you even watched the game instead of the boxscore. He wanted no parts of attacking Leonard offensively in the 1st half and was far too passive. Yea, his supporting cast stunk tonight but he wasn't really engaged from the get go either. His explosion came in the 3rd when they had already dug themselves down into a big hole, he should have had that approach from the start to try to set the tone.

 

[champs99and04]

if you're touting Lebron's stats after tonight's game as if to say he played a great game I'd have to question if you even watched the game instead of the boxscore. He wanted no parts of attacking Leonard offensively in the 1st half and was far too passive. Yea, his supporting cast stunk tonight but he wasn't really engaged from the get go either. His explosion came in the 3rd when they had already dug themselves down into a big hole, he should have had that approach from the start to try to set the tone.

LeBron should not be given a free pass for Miami's defensive implosion, either. He isn't a fraction of the defensive player right now that he has been for most of his career. He's been a step slow out there all series and Leonard has straight-up outplayed him in the last two.

 

[JaYnYcE]

All tbis Carmelo hate means nothing. He and LeBron group in the aau togeher and always talked about playing together in the league. Melo/James combination would shut down the league if put together correctly.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

All tbis Carmelo hate means nothing. He and LeBron group in the aau togeher and always talked about playing together in the league. Melo/James combination would shut down the league if put together correctly.

You realize that everyone hates Carmelo. The reason they hate him is that he is a selfish ball hog that jacks up a shot at least every third possession whether he has it or not, and he doesn't play defense. He is out of shape, and would rather score 30 than win. My "opinion" is shared by about 80% of the media and fans out there. Carmelo is not a winner, and Lebron would be stupid to hitch his wagon to Carmelo. Lebron would be better off bringing in someone that is hungry to win, or joining a younger team than bringing in Carmelo to Miami.

 

[Strummer]

if you're touting Lebron's stats after tonight's game as if to say he played a great game I'd have to question if you even watched the game instead of the boxscore.

Please please people. Follow the point. My God.

I posted his stats versus the rest of the starting 4 to point out how much the other 4 sucked and how little help he got. That's indisputable, except by haters. His teammates sucked big time. People are really pointing out that he had only 4 assists? His teammates the bed shooting. How exactly does one get assists if the people you are passing to don't hit their shots? They were 11/34 from the field. How many of those missed shots came on passes from LeBron?

Anyway, we can all have our opinions. It's completely unfair to ask LeBron to play 1 on 5. It's the same thing as Cleveland at this point, the only difference being other guys take more shots because they're nominally better on paper. The Heat picked up Greg Oden this off season. They have two for- point guards who can't score or create. They have an aging and ailing roster. They will not compete for another championship without major change. Easier to find another team.

 

[Scoe]

Did you know that in the last 2 national championships years won by Uconn the same year the Heat have lost in the Finals assuming of course the Spurs wrap it up.

 

[superjohn]

Please please people. Follow the point. My God.

I posted his stats versus the rest of the starting 4 to point out how much the other 4 sucked and how little help he got. That's indisputable, except by haters. His teammates sucked big time. People are really pointing out that he had only 4 assists? His teammates the bed shooting. How exactly does one get assists if the people you are passing to don't hit their shots? They were 11/34 from the field. How many of those missed shots came on passes from LeBron?

Anyway, we can all have our opinions. It's completely unfair to ask LeBron to play 1 on 5. It's the same thing as Cleveland at this point, the only difference being other guys take more shots because they're nominally better on paper. The Heat picked up Greg Oden this off season. They have two for- point guards who can't score or create. They have an aging and ailing roster. They will not compete for another championship without major change. Easier to find another team.

So Lebron gets a free pass for not showing up until the third quarter and for getting outplayed the last two games by Kawhi Leonard?

 

[Scoe]

Please please people. Follow the point. My God.

I posted his stats versus the rest of the starting 4 to point out how much the other 4 sucked and how little help he got. That's indisputable, except by haters. His teammates sucked big time. People are really pointing out that he had only 4 assists? His teammates the bed shooting. How exactly does one get assists if the people you are passing to don't hit their shots? They were 11/34 from the field. How many of those missed shots came on passes from LeBron?

Anyway, we can all have our opinions. It's completely unfair to ask LeBron to play 1 on 5. It's the same thing as Cleveland at this point, the only difference being other guys take more shots because they're nominally better on paper. The Heat picked up Greg Oden this off season. They have two for- point guards who can't score or create. They have an aging and ailing roster. They will not compete for another championship without major change. Easier to find another team.

The Lebron criticism does get overblown but it is fair because you are being measured against MJ.

 

[aceboon]

the point that you seem to be missing is that you can't blame the help when Bron played a big part in them being down big in the first place. yes, we get it, his supporting cast sucked, I acknoweldged that. but when you're by far and away the best player in the game today and an all time great, you can't come out and look shell shocked like he did in the 1st half with what was at stake.

Please please people. Follow the point. My God.

I posted his stats versus the rest of the starting 4 to point out how much the other 4 sucked and how little help he got. That's indisputable, except by haters. His teammates sucked big time. People are really pointing out that he had only 4 assists? His teammates the bed shooting. How exactly does one get assists if the people you are passing to don't hit their shots? They were 11/34 from the field. How many of those missed shots came on passes from LeBron?

Anyway, we can all have our opinions. It's completely unfair to ask LeBron to play 1 on 5. It's the same thing as Cleveland at this point, the only difference being other guys take more shots because they're nominally better on paper. The Heat picked up Greg Oden this off season. They have two for- point guards who can't score or create. They have an aging and ailing roster. They will not compete for another championship without major change. Easier to find another team.

 

[Strummer]

So Lebron gets a free pass for not showing up until the third quarter and for getting outplayed the last two games by Kawhi Leonard?

Where did you get that from?
My point was that LeBron teammates pretty much have sucked it up big time. How do you get that I'm giving LBJ a "free pass"? I haven't even commented on how I think LBJ played. Whether I think he played great, terrible, or in between, it's irrelevant to my conclusion, which is that his teammates suck and he's not going to win another title with this clown posse.

Ask yourself why you want to project those thoughts on me.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

Please please people. Follow the point. My God.

I posted his stats versus the rest of the starting 4 to point out how much the other 4 sucked and how little help he got. That's indisputable, except by haters. His teammates sucked big time. People are really pointing out that he had only 4 assists? His teammates the bed shooting. How exactly does one get assists if the people you are passing to don't hit their shots? They were 11/34 from the field. How many of those missed shots came on passes from LeBron?

Anyway, we can all have our opinions. It's completely unfair to ask LeBron to play 1 on 5. It's the same thing as Cleveland at this point, the only difference being other guys take more shots because they're nominally better on paper. The Heat picked up Greg Oden this off season. They have two for- point guards who can't score or create. They have an aging and ailing roster. They will not compete for another championship without major change. Easier to find another team.

The media doesn't declare the other 4 the greatest all time after every heat win either. What don't you get? He gets all the glory but none of the blame (unless he absolutely deserves it like the Dallas series)

He didn't show up in the first half when his team needed him. His teammates didn't either, but they're not LeBron James. He shouldn't need them to carry him. So he got 20 meaningless pts when the game was over. So what

He has been outplayed by the third best player on the other team. Come on man

 

[JaYnYcE]

You realize that everyone hates Carmelo. The reason they hate him is that he is a selfish ball hog that jacks up a shot at least every third possession whether he has it or not, and he doesn't play defense. He is out of shape, and would rather score 30 than win. My "opinion" is shared by about 80% of the media and fans out there. Carmelo is not a winner, and Lebron would be stupid to hitch his wagon to Carmelo. Lebron would be better off bringing in someone that is hungry to win, or joining a younger team than bringing in Carmelo to Miami.

yes, that opinion is shared by you and other people who have never played a game in the NBA. There is a reason why the Heat and the best player in the world and Wade are recruiting him.

 

[Mots010]

After the first two games, this looked dead even. Lebron had completely outplayed Leonard. Then it just flipped on a dime. The Spurs have been playing perfect basketball the last two games. Just unreal offensive output.

 

[EricLA]

Man I'm so happy to be eating crow, I thought this was going to be another nip and tuck series and with The Spurs dropping game two at home I thought Miami was the team to beat. Never been so happy to be so wrong, the Spurs are putting on an absolute clinic in Miami. I've never seen this kind of ball movement, it's kind of unbelievable to watch, Pop is an amazing coach.

The best thing about this is it shows that even if you have an Anthony or James type of player, 1 on 5 is not the best way to play the game. It seem to me that Ollie is working hard to create motion offense similar to what SAS does. I can't tell you how many times the announcers seemed stunned that on offense, all 4 Spurs who didn't have the ball were moving, and the passing was terrific. Then on the other end, it's Lebron James trying to create a shot with no offense from the rest of the team. I really love it!

 

[Dogdeacon]

The best thing about this is it shows that even if you have an Anthony or James type of player, 1 on 5 is not the best way to play the game. It seem to me that Ollie is working hard to create motion offense similar to what SAS does. I can't tell you how many times the announcers seemed stunned that on offense, all 4 Spurs who didn't have the ball were moving, and the passing was terrific. Then on the other end, it's Lebron James trying to create a shot with no offense from the rest of the team. I really love it!

Heat use a commonplace NBA pick play to try and generate offense whereas the Spurs start with that but then keep moving the ball until a double team or rushed/too late closeout creates a wide open shot.

Big factors at play

• Western conference was eons better than the East and that helped refine San Antonio's execution.
• Miami with 4 straight finals appearance has aged in dog years over the past few. Even with ample regular season rest Wade needs two nights off to be explosive. LeBron's mileage starting to catchup with him too.
• Spurs have changed the formula on Miami and whereas 3 superstars and defined role players worked in past now San Antonio's 4-8th best are vastly superior to Heat on defense and offensive execution.

Everything doesn't need to be a referendum positive or negative on LeBron. Spurs are just better, if LeBron was putting up monster games every night I think Spurs would still win but since he's not that opens the floodgates for irrelevant sportsradio type dissection of LeBron's every move.

 

[superjohn]

Where did you get that from?
My point was that LeBron teammates pretty much have sucked it up big time. How do you get that I'm giving LBJ a "free pass"? I haven't even commented on how I think LBJ played. Whether I think he played great, terrible, or in between, it's irrelevant to my conclusion, which is that his teammates suck and he's not going to win another title with this clown posse.

Ask yourself why you want to project those thoughts on me.

First of all I was asking a question which you still refuse to answer. The reason I'm asking the question is you keep saying it's all his teammates fault and not Lebron's. Everyone else is acknowledging his teammates have sucked but Lerbon should also share in some of the blame, considering he's the best player in the world and gets all of the accolades when they win. I'll try one more time, Lebron shouldn't share any of the responsibility in two home blowouts and for getting outplayed by Leonard?

 

[Gurleyman]

First of all I was asking a question which you still refuse to answer. The reason I'm asking the question is you keep saying it's all his teammates fault and not Lebron's. Everyone else is acknowledging his teammates have sucked but Lerbon should also share in some of the blame, considering he's the best player in the world and gets all of the accolades when they win. I'll try one more time, Lebron shouldn't share any of the responsibility in two home blowouts and for getting outplayed by Leonard?

It's a bit over simplistic to reduce it to a one on one matchup. The Heat switch a ton, help and recover, and very rarely have a person assigned to stop a particular player (the closest is when they ask LeBron to guard Parker late in close games). Other than that, the Heat are trying to use team defensive schemes (unsuccessfully for the most part), since there's no "one guy" they are trying to load up their defense to stop - but the down side is that everyone on San Antonio is taking turns getting open looks or defensive mismatches to exploit. Different at the other end, where Leonard has the solo assignment and never leaves LeBron to help anywhere else - and then gets defensive help off the drive.

LeBron definitely needed to step up and do more in the first half to keep the game closer, but he couldn't have possibly played any better than he did in the third quarter with his 7-7 shooting on tough shots (when the Heat still were in it - it was a 13-point game with 5 minutes left in the third, so it wasn't out of reach). And yet the Heat made up no ground, because his teammates shot 1-9. When Wade is reduced to a non-factor, there's just not enough offense on the Heat (especially with Chalmers/Cole unable to fill some of the void). Wade's rapid descent into an old man who relies on 15-foot fadeaways will probably end this Heat run as we know it a couple years early. They need another legit weapon.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

yes, that opinion is shared by you and other people who have never played a game in the NBA. There is a reason why the Heat and the best player in the world and Wade are recruiting him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...DMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--

Doesn't sound like Lebron and Wade are recruiting Carmelo all that hard.

If the Knicks guaranteed Carmelo's departure by signing Fisher, than Fisher has already been a successful hire.

 

[JaYnYcE]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...DMTBsa3ZzMnBvBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--

Doesn't sound like Lebron and Wade are recruiting Carmelo all that hard.

If the Knicks guaranteed Carmelo's departure by signing Fisher, than Fisher has already been a successful hire.

They're not going to talk about recruiting Carmelo Anthony while they're in the middle of the finals. Come on man. If Melo joins the Heat and creates a super team Phil Jackson would have failed in Knicks brass' eyes. The sole purpose from an outside POV was to change the culture. Jim Dolan brought in Phil to keep his revenue driving player from leaving NY. Losing out on his number 1 coach and letting Anthony leave for nothing would be an epic fail.