Fall practice highlights

[Huskybass]

I think Cole and Sanogo are starters and that the other 3 positions are wide open. The competition at the 2, 3, and 4 should be great. I think Polley comes off the bench, but if he shoots like Bouk did at his pro day...

Seriously though Gaffney Hawkins Jackson Martin Whaley and Akok are all good enough to start. This team has legit depth, the kind of depth we haven't had in a long time. Our "2nd unit" will be better than lots of D1 starting 5's.

 

[87Xfer]

I think Cole and Sanogo are starters and that the other 3 positions are wide open. The competition at the 2, 3, and 4 should be great. I think Polley comes off the bench, but if he shoots like Bouk did at his pro day...

Seriously though Gaffney Hawkins Jackson Martin Whaley and Akok are all good enough to start. This team has legit depth, the kind of depth we haven't had in a long time. Our "2nd unit" will be better than lots of D1 starting 5's.

Agreed, I'd punt money on Cole and Sanogo to start. But I'm not sure what the rest of the starting 5 looks like. Whaley is probably in there, but I'm not even super confident about that. Anyway, good problem to have!

 

[husky429]

Query:

Would you rather win 53-52, or lose 89-88 in a run 'n gun dunk-athon?

Teams that score 53 rarely win. Teams that score 88 rarely lose. I take that one loss because it probably means we're winning way more games that season overall.

 

[mauconnfan]

Whaley could be instant spark off bench, candidate for both 6th man and DPOY ??
I agree that he should not be paired with Ajax unless he’s automatic from 3

Ok so then AJax shouldn’t start right? I mean it’s obvious who was the better player for us last year and isn’t it best to play your better players more? So yeah Isaiah should be in the court to start not sure why anyone would think anything else

 

[Umami Zen]

I will wait until we're through with fall workouts/practices until I speculate on lineups/rotations.

I know. .I'm not showing onions on predictions.

 

[Viet Vet]

Teams that score 53 rarely win. Teams that score 88 rarely lose. I take that one loss because it probably means we're winning way more games that season overall.

UConn 53, Butler 41. Calhoun's third national championship. You'd toss that for an 89-88 loss?

FYI: Back in the day (a LONG time ago) when I played for Penn in the 60's, the Philadelphia public and Catholic high school championships were held at the "Cathedral", aka The Palestra. The public champions invariably scored in the 70-80's, the Catholic winner was in the 50's. Which was more entertaining/exciting? No question - the public game. Which was more instructive? For me - the Catholic game.

The respective champions then played for the overall city title. During my three years at Penn (only three - Uncle Sam came calling) the public schools won twice, the Catholic school once. The scores? 50-45, 57-50, 57-54.

Conclusions? As you see fit. For me, the Catholic schools' discipline and tempo was successful in mitigating the public schools' athleticism and speed..............to a point......... but not quite enough to overcome their firepower. The contrast resulted in some great basketball.

 

[HooperScooper]

UConn 53, Butler 41. Calhoun's third national championship. You'd toss that for an 89-88 loss?

FYI: Back in the day (a LONG time ago) when I played for Penn in the 60's, the Philadelphia public and Catholic high school championships were held at the "Cathedral", aka The Palestra. The public champions invariably scored in the 70-80's, the Catholic winner was in the 50's. Which was more entertaining/exciting? No question - the public game. Which was more instructive? For me - the Catholic game.

The respective champions then played for the overall city title. During my three years at Penn (only three - Uncle Sam came calling) the public schools won twice, the Catholic school once. The scores? 50-45, 57-50, 57-54.

Conclusions? As you see fit. For me, the Catholic schools' discipline and tempo was successful in mitigating the public schools' athleticism and speed..............to a point......... but not quite enough to overcome their firepower. The contrast resulted in some great basketball.

I think you have to admit that it's hard to compare today's basketball to that played 60 years ago. It's a much different game today. The athleticism. The three point shot. Etc, etc.

 

[ToolzieFan]

After watching the video you can see that Sanogo makes quick decisions after catching the ball in the post, Gaffney is aggressive in the half court, Akok is playing like a man possessed, Whaley is now a legit 2nd round pick, Cole will lead the league in assists, Polley dribbles like Curl Neal, Hawkins can shoot like Ray, Diggins is the next AJ Price and Jackson will lead the league in 3 point percentage and dunks. I can’t wait for November.

The progression from reasonable to absurd was done really well here. Nice work.

 

[pj]

Geesh, tough room!

This team is made to run. (Born to run?) I think the games are going to be incredibly fun to watch. I'm already pretty excited about it.

I like your contrarian thinking.

All the moneyball, analytics types will oppose quick shots from mid-range. But all the defenses are giving those shots. And you would be the only team they face designed to take them, so unfamiliarity would help, much as Syracuse gets more success than they deserve out of a 2-3 zone.

That said, Hurley needs to prepare his guys for the NBA and playing an NBA style is more conducive to that.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Whaley is only comparable shooting to Akok when you look at %s. But if you look strictly at the number of 3s made it’s Akok by a mile. Akok made more 3s in a shortened freshman year than Whaley did all of last year (maybe career?).

As far as offense goes I hope we simply just take the best shot and shots our guys to make. Don’t hunt for 3s or midrange shots. Just simply get the best one. More than anything else, attack the rim and everything should open up from there. Hunt and settle for 3s and it’ll be a long year.

Sanogo looks like he’s been working on having a jumpshot which would just add to his advanced arsenal on offense. That was a legitimate fadeaway rather than a jump hook.

 

[husky429]

UConn 53, Butler 41. Calhoun's third national championship. You'd toss that for an 89-88 loss?

FYI: Back in the day (a LONG time ago) when I played for Penn in the 60's, the Philadelphia public and Catholic high school championships were held at the "Cathedral", aka The Palestra. The public champions invariably scored in the 70-80's, the Catholic winner was in the 50's. Which was more entertaining/exciting? No question - the public game. Which was more instructive? For me - the Catholic game.

The respective champions then played for the overall city title. During my three years at Penn (only three - Uncle Sam came calling) the public schools won twice, the Catholic school once. The scores? 50-45, 57-50, 57-54.

Conclusions? As you see fit. For me, the Catholic schools' discipline and tempo was successful in mitigating the public schools' athleticism and speed..............to a point......... but not quite enough to overcome their firepower. The contrast resulted in some great basketball.

Basketball in the 60s and today are completely different.

The fact is that if you think we should be a team that scores in the 50s we aren't going to win very many games.

 

[Fatroony5]

Basketball in the 60s and today are completely different.

The fact is that if you think we should be a team that scores in the 50s we aren't going to win very many games.

The margin of error is so much smaller when you play that style. You can absolutely win games that way, but you’ll lose some as well, it’s hard to be “on” with your defense at that level every game, very few programs outside of Virginia can play like that. Teams like Baylor, Gonzaga, Bama etc have shown you can score a lot, play with pace, but also be a very good defensive team. I’d like to see this team get into the 70s regularly.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Are those my only choices? Because it seems like might other ones, say for example winning 91-89 or losing 54-53.

That is far more likely. This team is going to lose more slow paced half court games because of our 3 point shooting than high scoring high tempo games. Almost nobody can stay with us on the boards while also being fast and athletic. Slow games are for teams with great half court offenses. We haven't had one of those in recent memory.

 

[Umami Zen]

UConn 53, Butler 41. Calhoun's third national championship. You'd toss that for an 89-88 loss?

FYI: Back in the day (a LONG time ago) when I played for Penn in the 60's, the Philadelphia public and Catholic high school championships were held at the "Cathedral", aka The Palestra. The public champions invariably scored in the 70-80's, the Catholic winner was in the 50's. Which was more entertaining/exciting? No question - the public game. Which was more instructive? For me - the Catholic game.

The respective champions then played for the overall city title. During my three years at Penn (only three - Uncle Sam came calling) the public schools won twice, the Catholic school once. The scores? 50-45, 57-50, 57-54.

Conclusions? As you see fit. For me, the Catholic schools' discipline and tempo was successful in mitigating the public schools' athleticism and speed..............to a point......... but not quite enough to overcome their firepower. The contrast resulted in some great basketball.

Al McGuire's teams at Marquette could get up and down the court pretty good during that stretch.. Not a ton of back door cuts going on there!

 

[gtcam]

I think RJ and Gaff start.

Gaff may start but Hawk is way more athletic and a more capable scorer to sit down

 

[coloradohusky]

I think Tyrese has a breakout year. That kid carried a load when Bouk was out. He's got skills for sure.

 

[BGesus4]

UConn 53, Butler 41. Calhoun's third national championship. You'd toss that for an 89-88 loss?

FYI: Back in the day (a LONG time ago) when I played for Penn in the 60's, the Philadelphia public and Catholic high school championships were held at the "Cathedral", aka The Palestra. The public champions invariably scored in the 70-80's, the Catholic winner was in the 50's. Which was more entertaining/exciting? No question - the public game. Which was more instructive? For me - the Catholic game.

The respective champions then played for the overall city title. During my three years at Penn (only three - Uncle Sam came calling) the public schools won twice, the Catholic school once. The scores? 50-45, 57-50, 57-54.

Conclusions? As you see fit. For me, the Catholic schools' discipline and tempo was successful in mitigating the public schools' athleticism and speed..............to a point......... but not quite enough to overcome their firepower. The contrast resulted in some great basketball.

Would you rather have played in the 60’s and scored in the 50’s, played in the 80’s and scored in the 60’s or played in the 50’s and scored in the 80’s?

 

[Rico444]

UConn 53, Butler 41. Calhoun's third national championship. You'd toss that for an 89-88 loss?

FYI: Back in the day (a LONG time ago) when I played for Penn in the 60's, the Philadelphia public and Catholic high school championships were held at the "Cathedral", aka The Palestra. The public champions invariably scored in the 70-80's, the Catholic winner was in the 50's. Which was more entertaining/exciting? No question - the public game. Which was more instructive? For me - the Catholic game.

The respective champions then played for the overall city title. During my three years at Penn (only three - Uncle Sam came calling) the public schools won twice, the Catholic school once. The scores? 50-45, 57-50, 57-54.

Conclusions? As you see fit. For me, the Catholic schools' discipline and tempo was successful in mitigating the public schools' athleticism and speed..............to a point......... but not quite enough to overcome their firepower. The contrast resulted in some great basketball.

We can't bust heads like we used to. But we have our ways. One trick is to tell stories that don't go anywhere. Like the time I caught the ferry to Shelbyville. I needed a new heel for my shoe. So I decided to go to Morganville, which is what they called Shelbyville in those days. So I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on 'em. "Gimme five bees for a quarter," you'd say. Now where were we... oh yeah. The important thing was that I had an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time. They didn't have any white onions, because of the war. The only thing you could get was those big yellow ones.

 

[JB75]

No way whalley sanogo and Cole don’t start. Those our your locks - whalley has pretty much been a starter the last two years , he’s not gonna come back for his 5th year and ride the bench when the ball goes up to start the game. Gotta figure Martin is probably a lock as well at the three just because of his experience and toughness. That’s leaves the 2 spot up for grabs between ajax and gaff. Akok and Hawkins in the mix too but Hawkins a frosh so he’s not starting yet and they will blend akok in as year progresses. Wouldn’t be surprised if both those guys are starting by mid January and Gaffney and Martin are coming off the bench….

 

[husky429]

No way whalley sanogo and Cole don’t start. Those our your locks - whalley has pretty much been a starter the last two years , he’s not gonna come back for his 5th year and ride the bench when the ball goes up to start the game. Gotta figure Martin is probably a lock as well at the three just because of his experience and toughness. That’s leaves the 2 spot up for grabs between ajax and gaff. Akok and Hawkins in the mix too but Hawkins a frosh so he’s not starting yet and they will blend akok in as year progresses. Wouldn’t be surprised if both those guys are starting by mid January and Gaffney and Martin are coming off the bench….

If this is true (big if), you need to start whoever the best shooter is in practice. Cole, Rese, Whaley, Sanogo is only ONE proven shooter at our level. Going into a game with 1 shooter, 2 non shooters, and two guys who are question marks at best is a recipe for disaster.

That's the bigger problem with Ajax inability to shoot the ball at all. He really can't play with any other non-shooters or the whole gravity of the game gets messed up. And none of our 4s are proven shooters. I don't see how he gets the big minutes we need out of him unless Whaley, Akok, or Rese can shoot from the 4 spot.

 

[superjohn]

No way whalley sanogo and Cole don’t start. Those our your locks - whalley has pretty much been a starter the last two years , he’s not gonna come back for his 5th year and ride the bench when the ball goes up to start the game. Gotta figure Martin is probably a lock as well at the three just because of his experience and toughness. That’s leaves the 2 spot up for grabs between ajax and gaff. Akok and Hawkins in the mix too but Hawkins a frosh so he’s not starting yet and they will blend akok in as year progresses. Wouldn’t be surprised if both those guys are starting by mid January and Gaffney and Martin are coming off the bench….

Jackson isn't playing the 2 guard.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Jackson isn't playing the 2 guard.

I keep seeing saying people say Jackson isn't a 2 or Martin isn't, but I am fairly sure they will play together at some point, with Whaley or Akok at the 4. So maybe it doesn't really matter. Maybe Gaff is in as the PG, brings it up, and Jackson runs the offense. I expect a lot of positional flexibility among almost everybody but Cole, Sanogo and Diggins.

And while @husky429 is concerned with AJax's inability to shoot and Martin's level of shooting, we don't know what they will do. Martin shot very well before his late slump last year. Jackson only needs to get to the low 30s in 3 pt. percentage to be very effective given everything he can do. I don't care who is a "proven" shooter, they will either do it in games or not. I have every expectation that Akok and Martin can get to 35% from 3. Maybe even Whaley on low volume. They will or won't and that will impact minutes, as will defense, rebounding, 2 point scoring and other phases of the game.

 

[Peacefrog]

"Jackson only needs to get to the low 30s in 3 pt. percentage"

"only"!? Low 30's is a huge jump from what he did last year. What was it, 11%? And he looked bad doing it. It would be a notable development if he got as high as 25%. His form is poor and needed to be retooled in the offseason. I'm sure he spent the majority of his time working on that but he's got a long way to go to get to the low 30's.

 

[SeattleHoop]

"Jackson only needs to get to the low 30s in 3 pt. percentage"

"only"!? Low 30's is a huge jump from what he did last year. What was it, 11%? And he looked bad doing it. It would be a notable development if he got as high as 25%. His form is poor and needed to be retooled in the offseason. I'm sure he spent the majority of his time working on that but he's got a long way to go to get to the low 30's.

Not saying he is a good shooter but I feel like that 11% number doesn’t tell the whole story. He was coming off an injury and it was covid season. He really couldn’t get into a rhythm and again I’m not saying he is a good shooter. I think making a big jump with a larger sample size and a more “normal” season isn’t so far fetched.

 

[HuskyHawk]

"Jackson only needs to get to the low 30s in 3 pt. percentage"

"only"!? Low 30's is a huge jump from what he did last year. What was it, 11%? And he looked bad doing it. It would be a notable development if he got as high as 25%. His form is poor and needed to be retooled in the offseason. I'm sure he spent the majority of his time working on that but he's got a long way to go to get to the low 30's.

He's a gifted athlete with exceptional eye-hand coordination. Shooting is very teachable. One of the most teachable skills in the game. If he looks like he did last year as a shooter, Martin, Polley and Hawkins will take a lot of minutes. This is his livelihood. He's so athletic, and such a great passer that he's an NBA player if he gets anywhere near 35% from outside. He will do it or not.

Prior to last year, Mac Jones hadn't done much as a QB. He starts for the Patriots in a week or so.

 

[auror]

I like your contrarian thinking.

All the moneyball, analytics types will oppose quick shots from mid-range. But all the defenses are giving those shots. And you would be the only team they face designed to take them, so unfamiliarity would help, much as Syracuse gets more success than they deserve out of a 2-3 zone.

That said, Hurley needs to prepare his guys for the NBA and playing an NBA style is more conducive to that.

One of the big reasons why mid range shots are so bad is that even people (and professionals) who train and practice midrange shots for their whole career shoot only barely marginally better on open long 2s than they do on somewhat contested 3s, which are worth 50% more points.

Much of the difficulty in a jump shot is the footwork, balance, and consistency of the mechanics themselves, the aiming/distance is only part of it, and 15 vs. 22 feet isn't much different. A team that practices and wants to take long 2s might shoot 45% on them (a mark considered quite accurate), whereas they might've shot 36% on slightly contested 3s (NBA league average).

 

[husky429]

I keep seeing saying people say Jackson isn't a 2 or Martin isn't, but I am fairly sure they will play together at some point, with Whaley or Akok at the 4. So maybe it doesn't really matter. Maybe Gaff is in as the PG, brings it up, and Jackson runs the offense. I expect a lot of positional flexibility among almost everybody but Cole, Sanogo and Diggins.

And while @husky429 is concerned with AJax's inability to shoot and Martin's level of shooting, we don't know what they will do. Martin shot very well before his late slump last year. Jackson only needs to get to the low 30s in 3 pt. percentage to be very effective given everything he can do. I don't care who is a "proven" shooter, they will either do it in games or not. I have every expectation that Akok and Martin can get to 35% from 3. Maybe even Whaley on low volume. They will or won't and that will impact minutes, as will defense, rebounding, 2 point scoring and other phases of the game.

I expect the starting lineup will consist of Cole, Whaley, Sanogo... and whoever else has shot well in practice while doing what else we expect from them (such as passing/rebounding from AJ)

If that is Rese and Gaffney, that probably means those two were shooting well in practice. If it's Hawkins and AJ, it probably means those two were shooting the best. You get the idea.

A lot can change in a summer. And we're really relying on some pretty substantial improvements from guys over last year to be the top-25 team we want to be. It isn't easy, but this staff has shown they can develop guys. And we know look is a star developer of perimeter talent, so we might even have elevated in that regard.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I expect the starting lineup will consist of Cole, Whaley, Sanogo... and whoever else has shot well in practice while doing what else we expect from them (such as passing/rebounding from AJ)

If that is Rese and Gaffney, that probably means those two were shooting well in practice. If it's Hawkins and AJ, it probably means those two were shooting the best. You get the idea.

A lot can change in a summer. And we're really relying on some pretty substantial improvements from guys over last year to be the top-25 team we want to be. It isn't easy, but this staff has shown they can develop guys. And we know look is a star developer of perimeter talent, so we might even have elevated in that regard.

I'm with you except replace shooting with defense. I think that will be Hurley's #1 priority for who plays. But I honestly don't think it will be as simple as "best shooting" or "best defending" in practice, it will be a mixture of those, plus other elements, each weighted. Possibly in this order 1. defense 2. shooting 3. for SF rebounding for SG ball handing/passing and so on.

 

[JustbrewitMan]

I'm so sick of everyone fretting over us being a bad 3pt shooting team with no/limited 3pt shooters!!!

We are going to be %$#^$%&^ fine, people.

Our 3 highest-volume 3pt shooters (RJ, Tyler, Gaff) are all back and shot a collective 36.9% from 3pt land.

One of them (Gaff) made a leap from 26.4% to 36.2% on similar volume from freshman to sophomore year. I expect him to be as good/improve this year

One of them (Tyler) saw his overall % dip from ~40% to ~36% compared to previous year. BTW, he was coming off an ACL injury. I would be shocked if he shot worse than 35% this year, not at all surprised to see him get 40+%

One of them (RJ) was his first year at high-level D1 ball. Took him probably half of a wack start-stop COVID-affected season to get comfortable. BTW, in his last 10 games, he shot 44.4% from 3 on good volume.


Our secondary 3pt shooters:

-Whaley: In his 1st ever season shooting 3's as part of his game, he showed he is capable of making them at a decent clip on decent volume (~35%). Would be shocked if he regresses.

-Tyrese: Finished the last 7 games in a heck of a slump (1/17), but was 15/33 (45%) prior to that. I'm sure he's worked like heck on his shot over the summer and I don't think his mechanics are that horrible, so I expect him to be 30-35%

Wildcards:
-I would bet that out of the collective of AJ, Akok, Rahsool, Hawkins, CFJ, and Samson, that at least 1-2 will emerge to be a 35-40% shooter on decent volume, the rest will collectively fall somewhere in the 27-35% range.

Bonus take:
-Don't sleep on Richie Springs!

 

[husky429]

I'm with you except replace shooting with defense. I think that will be Hurley's #1 priority for who plays. But I honestly don't think it will be as simple as "best shooting" or "best defending" in practice, it will be a mixture of those, plus other elements, each weighted. Possibly in this order 1. defense 2. shooting 3. for SF rebounding for SG ball handing/passing and so on.

Yeah, we're basically on the same page. I'd just swap #1 and #2. Excited to have the depth we do and which guys put in the work to improve this summer. The SG and SF spots must be really competitive in practice.