Face Time

[Chin Diesel]

Offensive flow and defensive intensity came grinding to a halt as soon as he checked in against Houston.

At this point any contribution UConn gets from him is akin to the blind squirrel and a nut.

He's basically the last resort off the bench and any positive contribution on offense or defense is like finding a $5 bill wadded up in a coat pocket. It's nice, it's unexpected, it doesn't get you much, but it's better than nothing.

His regression has been steady for three years now. This isn't a slump.

 

[Scot-e]

Every time TO comes on the floor I say to myself "this could be trouble". I would like to see exactly what has happened happen- limit his minutes to the smallest possible number a game. KO has done a fine job knowing when he can put in Facey in the game. Facey is not a 5.

 

[microfich]

Facey has sat because he's still learning where to be on the floor and how to get there. He's obviously improving but until he fully gets this, he's often a negative force and that's why TO gets the minutes he does. He won't hurt us by being lost, leading to fouls by him or others, which can hurt us quickly on multiple possessions. We've seen that often from Facey. Yes, TO's slow and gets beaten and fouls and is out of shape and has manos de piedras but I won't worry having him out there screening, passing and blocking out when we need someone who knows what to do during a key end of game possession.

 

[breezy]

So do you have any examples?

And yeah, I do put more stock in the coaching staff than I do in the ramblings of fans. Guess what? Brimah and Nolan play more than Olander does.

Guess what? the coaches realize TO has a body no one else has and that's why he's played more to date than the Face. Anyone who watched the Florida game intelligently saw that TO was the only guy who made Young even work for his points and boards. I'm not gonna go back and watch the game but I specifically remember being extra-upset when Tyler fouled out (a VERY BS foul) because I knew it meant Young could have his way with us. It was probably Young's toughest 11 minutes. Doesn't matter if TO didn't score as long as he was making things tough for the big fella, none of our centers weren't scoring at the point in the season.

 

[boog204]

I really like Facey. But he shouldn't take TO's minutes. If you watch when Facey's in the game, even against Houston, he's always out of position both on offense and defense. He's confused as to where he is supposed to be, where he is supposed to screen/post, and on defense hasn't learned how to guard D1 players yet. Due to his athleticism he *can* put numbers on the board, but those are due to athleticism. This explains why he has done next to nothing all year except for two games. He has popped in for a minute here or there in other games and looked awful. There's no way you can expect any sort of consistency from him. The Marcus White/Facey comparison is great. Both are these super athletic big men with little idea how to play basketball. Their limited minutes and the numbers produced jump out at you. But there's more going on that is not in a box score. Facey will be an excellent player here, but he's best in very small bursts at this point.

We know that TO has his limitations, but as has been said, he is our best screener, one of our better passers (he's better than DD and Omar), is probably the best post up guy of our bigs, and is our only meat on the front line. In a perfect world he's seeing 5 minutes a game and using his experience to teach the young bigs in practice.

 

[David 76]

I like Facey's motor. I feel he is very close to being a really productive player.
But you guys are comparing apples and oranges.
If TO gave up any of his 3 or 4 mpg, they would go to Nolan or Brimah.
It is hard to give Facey more minutes because DD is our best 4, he plays a lot of minutes, doesn't foul out regularly and NG needs minutes there too. And I think we would all agree that we don't want to shrink DD's or NG's minutes for KF.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Guess what? the coaches realize TO has a body no one else has and that's why he's played more to date than the Face. Anyone who watched the Florida game intelligently saw that TO was the only guy who made Young even work for his points and boards. I'm not gonna go back and watch the game but I specifically remember being extra-upset when Tyler fouled out (a VERY BS foul) because I knew it meant Young could have his way with us. It was probably Young's toughest 11 minutes. Doesn't matter if TO didn't score as long as he was making things tough for the big fella, none of our centers weren't scoring at the point in the season.

Sorry, but if his magnum opus this season is fouling out in 11 minutes against a guy that still had his way with us for the entire game, that's troubling.

 

[Sportsman5]

I think some people are not taking into account the future. Considering we are a very long shot for a championship this year I think development for the future should account for a large chunk of playing time decisions. Kromah and Giffey have far and away been better than Calhoun this year. Calhoun should play about 0-5 mins per game if development for the future didn't matter. I think Calhoun and Facey are similar situations. I think Facey should see 15 mins per game for development purposes even if Olander is slightly better (which is clearly debatable). For those saying Olander should get the time over Facey what are your thoughts about how much development for future years matters?

 

[boog204]

I think some people are not taking into account the future. Considering we are a very long shot for a championship this year I think development for the future should account for a large chunk of playing time decisions. Kromah and Giffey have far and away been better than Calhoun this year. Calhoun should play about 0-5 mins per game if development for the future didn't matter. I think Calhoun and Facey are similar situations. I think Facey should see 15 mins per game for development purposes even if Olander is slightly better (which is clearly debatable). For those saying Olander should get the time over Facey what are your thoughts about how much development for future years matters?

Where are Facey's 15 mpg going to come from? Olander doesnt' play all that much. Does Facey take some of Brimah or Nolan's minutes at the 5? DD or Giffey at the 4?

Also, you seem to dismiss the fact that Omar was an all league rookie last year. He scored 11 a game, hit big shots, and showed that he can be a big time player. He's been awful this year, no doubt. But Facey has had literally two/three games where he has looked like he could produce and two of those are Detroit and Maine and the rest he looked totally overmatched.

 

[Sportsman5]

Where are Facey's 15 mpg going to come from? Olander doesnt' play all that much. Does Facey take some of Brimah or Nolan's minutes at the 5? DD or Giffey at the 4?

Also, you seem to dismiss the fact that Omar was an all league rookie last year. He scored 11 a game, hit big shots, and showed that he can be a big time player. He's been awful this year, no doubt. But Facey has had literally two/three games where he has looked like he could produce and two of those are Detroit and Maine and the rest he looked totally overmatched.

DD plays 30 at the 4. that leaves 50 for Brimah, Nolan and Facey to split. So about 17 each depending upon matchups, fouls etc. If it's a blow out than DD might only play 25. I am not dismissing anything Calhoun did last year. The double hip surgery obviously completely threw him off this year. He has been inferior in almost every way to both Kromah and Giffey. If you only play Facey for very short bursts once per week, than it is very hard for him to improve and get into a rhythm. You didn't address anything about my questions regarding development for the future.

 

[boog204]

DD plays 30 at the 4. that leaves 50 for Brimah, Nolan and Facey to split. So about 17 each depending upon matchups, fouls etc. If it's a blow out than DD might only play 25. I am not dismissing anything Calhoun did last year. The double hip surgery obviously completely threw him off this year. He has been inferior in almost every way to both Kromah and Giffey. If you only play Facey for very short bursts once per week, than it is very hard for him to improve and get into a rhythm. You didn't address anything about my questions regarding development for the future.

I just don't think Facey has earned 17 minutes a game. Again, he's had two or three games where he's looked like he belonged. It's convenient to discount the others, but he hasn't looked good in his obviously limited minutes.

I'm all for developing players but not if it's essentially conceding the season. You say we are a long shot to win a championship, and it is probably true, but that doesn't mean we just begin sacrificing the season to play the younger players. Sacrifice might be too strong of a word, but Facey has not earned the right to play 15-20 minutes a game yet. Do we start limiting Bazz and Boat's minutes to get Samuel more run?

 

[Sportsman5]

I just don't think Facey has earned 17 minutes a game. Again, he's had two or three games where he's looked like he belonged. It's convenient to discount the others, but he hasn't looked good in his obviously limited minutes.

I'm all for developing players but not if it's essentially conceding the season. You say we are a long shot to win a championship, and it is probably true, but that doesn't mean we just begin sacrificing the season to play the younger players. Sacrifice might be too strong of a word, but Facey has not earned the right to play 15-20 minutes a game yet. Do we start limiting Bazz and Boat's minutes to get Samuel more run?

Facey is averaging 7.2 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per 20 minutes. Small sample size, but you can't say he hasn't shown promise in an area that we need to make sure is solid if we want to do anything in the tournament. The argument about giving SN and RB's playing time to Samuel is not a good analogy for giving Facey time over Olander and you know it. Those guards are the two best players we have while Olander is only going to give you a few points and a few rebounds per game and gives you very little on defense because of limited mobility and athleticism.

 

[James]

All of faceys stats are irrelevant , there all in garbage time.

 

[boog204]

Facey is averaging 7.2 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per 20 minutes. Small sample size, but you can't say he hasn't shown promise in an area that we need to make sure is solid if we want to do anything in the tournament. The argument about giving SN and RB's playing time to Samuel is not a good analogy for giving Facey time over Olander and you know it. Those guards are the two best players we have while Olander is only going to give you a few points and a few rebounds per game and gives you very little on defense because of limited mobility and athleticism.

Someone posted today that we lead the AAC in rebounding. Facey has shown tremendous promise as a rebounder but he's shown amazing "rawness" in being part of a half court offense and getting lost on defense. I'm fine with Facey taking TO's minutes if Facey shows that he understands the system. Even then it should be TOs minutes and not some of DD's or the two centers who have played quite well the last 6 or so games. The Samuel argument is weak, but you seemed to imply that since we are not winning a championship this year, Facey should be playing more for the future of the team. If that's the belief, then Samuel should be playing more as well. But we all know that won't and shouldn't happen. I feel like the board has had the same Facey conversation 4 times this year. Then the next time he see's the floor we all remember why TO is playing and Facey is not.

 

[Sportsman5]

Someone posted today that we lead the AAC in rebounding. Facey has shown tremendous promise as a rebounder but he's shown amazing "rawness" in being part of a half court offense and getting lost on defense. I'm fine with Facey taking TO's minutes if Facey shows that he understands the system. Even then it should be TOs minutes and not some of DD's or the two centers who have played quite well the last 6 or so games. The Samuel argument is weak, but you seemed to imply that since we are not winning a championship this year, Facey should be playing more for the future of the team. If that's the belief, then Samuel should be playing more as well. But we all know that won't and shouldn't happen. I feel like the board has had the same Facey conversation 4 times this year. Then the next time he see's the floor we all remember why TO is playing and Facey is not.

I think we will lose the rebounding battle against most top 15 teams. To do anything in the tournament you must out-rebound these teams. I didn't say give up on the season. i just said developing players for the future should be a significant consideration in deciding playing time during years where you are not a clear top 10-15 team. If the goal is to have the best team possible going into the tournament, than giving facey playing time over olander is what we should do because Facey will improve with playing time (how much improvement is unknown) while Olander will likely not improve over the next 13-15 games. It's a classic law of diminishing returns. Olander has already leveled off while Facey is still in the steep uphill climb faze. I think Facey getting Olander's 10 minutes per game will statistically give us the best team for the tournament and give us the best team going into next year.

 

[boog204]

I think we will lose the rebounding battle against most top 15 teams. To do anything in the tournament you must out-rebound these teams. I didn't say give up on the season. i just said developing players for the future should be a significant consideration in deciding playing time during years where you are not a clear top 10-15 team. If the goal is to have the best team possible going into the tournament, than giving facey playing time over olander is what we should do because Facey will improve with playing time (how much improvement is unknown) while Olander will likely not improve over the next 13-15 games. It's a classic law of diminishing returns. Olander has already leveled off while Facey is still in the steep uphill climb faze. I think Facey getting Olander's 10 minutes per game will statistically give us the best team for the tournament and give us the best team going into next year.

I'm fine w/ Facey getting TOs minutes if Kenton is truly ready. In the Houston game, I think Lappas commented on how Facey didn't seem to know the offensive sets yet. While we may not be a "clear top 10-15 team," we have the ability to beat anyone (and seemingly lose to anyone.) Clearly, Facey is a big part of our future and the more PT he gets, the better. But he has been a non-factor far more often than he has been productive this year. At this point, TO, for all of the crap he gets and for his limitations, I feel makes us a better team when he is on the floor as opposed to Facey. The little things that TO possesses- the screening, the better passing, the experience is invaluable. These are non box score things that Facey does not have the ability to produce yet.

 

[Sportsman5]

I'm fine w/ Facey getting TOs minutes if Kenton is truly ready. In the Houston game, I think Lappas commented on how Facey didn't seem to know the offensive sets yet. While we may not be a "clear top 10-15 team," we have the ability to beat anyone (and seemingly lose to anyone.) Clearly, Facey is a big part of our future and the more PT he gets, the better. But he has been a non-factor far more often than he has been productive this year. At this point, TO, for all of the crap he gets and for his limitations, I feel makes us a better team when he is on the floor as opposed to Facey. The little things that TO possesses- the screening, the better passing, the experience is invaluable. These are non box score things that Facey does not have the ability to produce yet.

I guess we agree to disagree on this one.

 

[boog204]

I guess we agree to disagree on this one.

well we can agree he's going to be a nice contributor for this team down the road...

 

[mauconnfan]

Facey is not ready yet. He has shown the knack for rebounding and a nose for the ball. He will be good, but you need to understand positioning, rotation and the plays and he doesn't seem to as of yet. We all agree Tyler is slow footed, doesn't rebound it to well but he's "involved" when in because he's in the right place and still makes some plays. Maybe facet will prove us all wrong and damn, I hope he does we could use that. But for now boog is spot on, he needs time and a better understanding of the game and play up to speed especially on D…….he's going to be very good down the road!

 

[Inyatkin]

I think some people are not taking into account the future. Considering we are a very long shot for a championship this year I think development for the future should account for a large chunk of playing time decisions. Kromah and Giffey have far and away been better than Calhoun this year. Calhoun should play about 0-5 mins per game if development for the future didn't matter. I think Calhoun and Facey are similar situations. I think Facey should see 15 mins per game for development purposes even if Olander is slightly better (which is clearly debatable). For those saying Olander should get the time over Facey what are your thoughts about how much development for future years matters?

That's insane. We're 17-4, not 4-17. Plan for the future?
So what, we tell Shabazz, "Yes, you're in the middle of a special season, and thanks for sticking around and all, but we've got to plan for next year by playing guys that aren't ready."
By the way, everyone this side of Arizona is a long shot for the championship.

 

[Sportsman5]

That's insane. We're 17-4, not 4-17. Plan for the future?
So what, we tell Shabazz, "Yes, you're in the middle of a special season, and thanks for sticking around and all, but we've got to plan for next year by playing guys that aren't ready."
By the way, everyone this side of Arizona is a long shot for the championship.

So you read all of my posts this thread? That explains my view point

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Considering we are a very long shot for a championship this year I think development for the future should account for a large chunk of playing time decisions.

It's been said, but this is nuts. Playing time decisions should be based on what gives them the best chance of winning the game they're playing. That's it.

Win your minutes in practice. Tell Shabazz and Giffey that the focus is going to be on building for the future, see how that goes over.

 

[Sportsman5]

It's been said, but this is nuts. Playing time decisions should be based on what gives them the best chance of winning the game they're playing. That's it.

Win your minutes in practice. Tell Shabazz and Giffey that the focus is going to be on building for the future, see how that goes over.

did you read ALL of my posts this thread? So you believe in not playing calhoun more than 5 minutes? he has played like complete crap due to his surgery. his shooting percentages are TERRIBLE and he is contributing very little mean while Kromah and Giffey are both playing amazing. Olander MIGHT bring more to the table than Facey right now. But if you let Facey develop over the next 15 games than theres a good chance he is better than Olander come tournament time and we are better going forward. So there's a good chance allocating more playing time to Facey is a win win. If you want further explanation than read all of my previous posts.

 

[Inyatkin]

So you read all of my posts this thread? That explains my view point

Sure, and the response is that there are probably 30 teams that can win six in a row in March and we're one of them. It's not likely, but I'm sure not going to worry about next year's team while this one is still breathing.

 

[Sportsman5]

Sure, and the response is that there are probably 30 teams that can win six in a row in March and we're one of them. It's not likely, but I'm sure not going to worry about next year's team while this one is still breathing.

as a fan you focus on the current season, but when running an organization whether it be a college team, pro team, or business you must plan for the future. The sports teams and companies that are short sited end up in perpetual mediocrity or worse. The few that find a good balance are very successful.
I am not saying to sit DD 10 more mins so Facey can play. We are talking Olander here. He over plays on defense and commits terrible fouls, cannot stay in front of almost anyone with quickness or athleticism, rarely converts on post moves, and does not have the leaping ability or quickness to consistently get rebounds. He sets decent screens and occasionally hits a jump shot. He has completely peaked and has no upside. The potential upside of Facey come tournament time is important for a team that is desperate for quality depth in the front court. Still play olander occasionally if the match-up is right. Otherwise he should get very limited playing time.