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DD plays 30 at the 4. that leaves 50 for Brimah, Nolan and Facey to split. So about 17 each depending upon matchups, fouls etc. If it's a blow out than DD might only play 25. I am not dismissing anything Calhoun did last year. The double hip surgery obviously completely threw him off this year. He has been inferior in almost every way to both Kromah and Giffey. If you only play Facey for very short bursts once per week, than it is very hard for him to improve and get into a rhythm. You didn't address anything about my questions regarding development for the future.

I just don't think Facey has earned 17 minutes a game. Again, he's had two or three games where he's looked like he belonged. It's convenient to discount the others, but he hasn't looked good in his obviously limited minutes.

I'm all for developing players but not if it's essentially conceding the season. You say we are a long shot to win a championship, and it is probably true, but that doesn't mean we just begin sacrificing the season to play the younger players. Sacrifice might be too strong of a word, but Facey has not earned the right to play 15-20 minutes a game yet. Do we start limiting Bazz and Boat's minutes to get Samuel more run?
 
I just don't think Facey has earned 17 minutes a game. Again, he's had two or three games where he's looked like he belonged. It's convenient to discount the others, but he hasn't looked good in his obviously limited minutes.

I'm all for developing players but not if it's essentially conceding the season. You say we are a long shot to win a championship, and it is probably true, but that doesn't mean we just begin sacrificing the season to play the younger players. Sacrifice might be too strong of a word, but Facey has not earned the right to play 15-20 minutes a game yet. Do we start limiting Bazz and Boat's minutes to get Samuel more run?

Facey is averaging 7.2 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per 20 minutes. Small sample size, but you can't say he hasn't shown promise in an area that we need to make sure is solid if we want to do anything in the tournament. The argument about giving SN and RB's playing time to Samuel is not a good analogy for giving Facey time over Olander and you know it. Those guards are the two best players we have while Olander is only going to give you a few points and a few rebounds per game and gives you very little on defense because of limited mobility and athleticism.
 
All of faceys stats are irrelevant , there all in garbage time.
 
Facey is averaging 7.2 rebounds and 1.4 blocks per 20 minutes. Small sample size, but you can't say he hasn't shown promise in an area that we need to make sure is solid if we want to do anything in the tournament. The argument about giving SN and RB's playing time to Samuel is not a good analogy for giving Facey time over Olander and you know it. Those guards are the two best players we have while Olander is only going to give you a few points and a few rebounds per game and gives you very little on defense because of limited mobility and athleticism.

Someone posted today that we lead the AAC in rebounding. Facey has shown tremendous promise as a rebounder but he's shown amazing "rawness" in being part of a half court offense and getting lost on defense. I'm fine with Facey taking TO's minutes if Facey shows that he understands the system. Even then it should be TOs minutes and not some of DD's or the two centers who have played quite well the last 6 or so games. The Samuel argument is weak, but you seemed to imply that since we are not winning a championship this year, Facey should be playing more for the future of the team. If that's the belief, then Samuel should be playing more as well. But we all know that won't and shouldn't happen. I feel like the board has had the same Facey conversation 4 times this year. Then the next time he see's the floor we all remember why TO is playing and Facey is not.
 
Someone posted today that we lead the AAC in rebounding. Facey has shown tremendous promise as a rebounder but he's shown amazing "rawness" in being part of a half court offense and getting lost on defense. I'm fine with Facey taking TO's minutes if Facey shows that he understands the system. Even then it should be TOs minutes and not some of DD's or the two centers who have played quite well the last 6 or so games. The Samuel argument is weak, but you seemed to imply that since we are not winning a championship this year, Facey should be playing more for the future of the team. If that's the belief, then Samuel should be playing more as well. But we all know that won't and shouldn't happen. I feel like the board has had the same Facey conversation 4 times this year. Then the next time he see's the floor we all remember why TO is playing and Facey is not.

I think we will lose the rebounding battle against most top 15 teams. To do anything in the tournament you must out-rebound these teams. I didn't say give up on the season. i just said developing players for the future should be a significant consideration in deciding playing time during years where you are not a clear top 10-15 team. If the goal is to have the best team possible going into the tournament, than giving facey playing time over olander is what we should do because Facey will improve with playing time (how much improvement is unknown) while Olander will likely not improve over the next 13-15 games. It's a classic law of diminishing returns. Olander has already leveled off while Facey is still in the steep uphill climb faze. I think Facey getting Olander's 10 minutes per game will statistically give us the best team for the tournament and give us the best team going into next year.
 
I think we will lose the rebounding battle against most top 15 teams. To do anything in the tournament you must out-rebound these teams. I didn't say give up on the season. i just said developing players for the future should be a significant consideration in deciding playing time during years where you are not a clear top 10-15 team. If the goal is to have the best team possible going into the tournament, than giving facey playing time over olander is what we should do because Facey will improve with playing time (how much improvement is unknown) while Olander will likely not improve over the next 13-15 games. It's a classic law of diminishing returns. Olander has already leveled off while Facey is still in the steep uphill climb faze. I think Facey getting Olander's 10 minutes per game will statistically give us the best team for the tournament and give us the best team going into next year.

I'm fine w/ Facey getting TOs minutes if Kenton is truly ready. In the Houston game, I think Lappas commented on how Facey didn't seem to know the offensive sets yet. While we may not be a "clear top 10-15 team," we have the ability to beat anyone (and seemingly lose to anyone.) Clearly, Facey is a big part of our future and the more PT he gets, the better. But he has been a non-factor far more often than he has been productive this year. At this point, TO, for all of the crap he gets and for his limitations, I feel makes us a better team when he is on the floor as opposed to Facey. The little things that TO possesses- the screening, the better passing, the experience is invaluable. These are non box score things that Facey does not have the ability to produce yet.
 
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I'm fine w/ Facey getting TOs minutes if Kenton is truly ready. In the Houston game, I think Lappas commented on how Facey didn't seem to know the offensive sets yet. While we may not be a "clear top 10-15 team," we have the ability to beat anyone (and seemingly lose to anyone.) Clearly, Facey is a big part of our future and the more PT he gets, the better. But he has been a non-factor far more often than he has been productive this year. At this point, TO, for all of the crap he gets and for his limitations, I feel makes us a better team when he is on the floor as opposed to Facey. The little things that TO possesses- the screening, the better passing, the experience is invaluable. These are non box score things that Facey does not have the ability to produce yet.

I guess we agree to disagree on this one.
 
Facey is not ready yet. He has shown the knack for rebounding and a nose for the ball. He will be good, but you need to understand positioning, rotation and the plays and he doesn't seem to as of yet. We all agree Tyler is slow footed, doesn't rebound it to well but he's "involved" when in because he's in the right place and still makes some plays. Maybe facet will prove us all wrong and damn, I hope he does we could use that. But for now boog is spot on, he needs time and a better understanding of the game and play up to speed especially on D…….he's going to be very good down the road!
 
I think some people are not taking into account the future. Considering we are a very long shot for a championship this year I think development for the future should account for a large chunk of playing time decisions. Kromah and Giffey have far and away been better than Calhoun this year. Calhoun should play about 0-5 mins per game if development for the future didn't matter. I think Calhoun and Facey are similar situations. I think Facey should see 15 mins per game for development purposes even if Olander is slightly better (which is clearly debatable). For those saying Olander should get the time over Facey what are your thoughts about how much development for future years matters?
That's insane. We're 17-4, not 4-17. Plan for the future?
So what, we tell Shabazz, "Yes, you're in the middle of a special season, and thanks for sticking around and all, but we've got to plan for next year by playing guys that aren't ready."
By the way, everyone this side of Arizona is a long shot for the championship.
 
That's insane. We're 17-4, not 4-17. Plan for the future?
So what, we tell Shabazz, "Yes, you're in the middle of a special season, and thanks for sticking around and all, but we've got to plan for next year by playing guys that aren't ready."
By the way, everyone this side of Arizona is a long shot for the championship.

So you read all of my posts this thread? That explains my view point
 
Considering we are a very long shot for a championship this year I think development for the future should account for a large chunk of playing time decisions.

It's been said, but this is nuts. Playing time decisions should be based on what gives them the best chance of winning the game they're playing. That's it.

Win your minutes in practice. Tell Shabazz and Giffey that the focus is going to be on building for the future, see how that goes over.
 
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It's been said, but this is nuts. Playing time decisions should be based on what gives them the best chance of winning the game they're playing. That's it.

Win your minutes in practice. Tell Shabazz and Giffey that the focus is going to be on building for the future, see how that goes over.

did you read ALL of my posts this thread? So you believe in not playing calhoun more than 5 minutes? he has played like complete crap due to his surgery. his shooting percentages are TERRIBLE and he is contributing very little mean while Kromah and Giffey are both playing amazing. Olander MIGHT bring more to the table than Facey right now. But if you let Facey develop over the next 15 games than theres a good chance he is better than Olander come tournament time and we are better going forward. So there's a good chance allocating more playing time to Facey is a win win. If you want further explanation than read all of my previous posts.
 
So you read all of my posts this thread? That explains my view point
Sure, and the response is that there are probably 30 teams that can win six in a row in March and we're one of them. It's not likely, but I'm sure not going to worry about next year's team while this one is still breathing.
 
Sure, and the response is that there are probably 30 teams that can win six in a row in March and we're one of them. It's not likely, but I'm sure not going to worry about next year's team while this one is still breathing.

as a fan you focus on the current season, but when running an organization whether it be a college team, pro team, or business you must plan for the future. The sports teams and companies that are short sited end up in perpetual mediocrity or worse. The few that find a good balance are very successful.
I am not saying to sit DD 10 more mins so Facey can play. We are talking Olander here. He over plays on defense and commits terrible fouls, cannot stay in front of almost anyone with quickness or athleticism, rarely converts on post moves, and does not have the leaping ability or quickness to consistently get rebounds. He sets decent screens and occasionally hits a jump shot. He has completely peaked and has no upside. The potential upside of Facey come tournament time is important for a team that is desperate for quality depth in the front court. Still play olander occasionally if the match-up is right. Otherwise he should get very limited playing time.
 
as a fan you focus on the current season, but when running an organization whether it be a college team, pro team, or business you must plan for the future. The sports teams and companies that are short sited end up in perpetual mediocrity or worse. The few that find a good balance are very successful.
I am not saying to sit DD 10 more mins so Facey can play. We are talking Olander here. He over plays on defense and commits terrible fouls, cannot stay in front of almost anyone with quickness or athleticism, rarely converts on post moves, and does not have the leaping ability or quickness to consistently get rebounds. He sets decent screens and occasionally hits a jump shot. He has completely peaked and has no upside. The potential upside of Facey come tournament time is important for a team that is desperate for quality depth in the front court. Still play olander occasionally if the match-up is right. Otherwise he should get very limited playing time.
Right, and since we're talking Olander it's been noted that he's hardly playing lately, either.
Your original point was that since we're not likely to win a title this year we should dedicate significant time to planning for the future, which remains crazy.
The Calhoun/Facey comparison is off, as well, since Calhoun has proven he can play at this level, though he hasn't lately, while Facey has not.
 
Calhoun played decent last year. shooting percentages were bad, but overall numbers were ok because he played a ton. clearly the hip surgeries have completely ruined his game this year. So the comparison is not off because Calhoun is adding almost no value this year and yet he is playing 17 minutes per game. The sample size is getting pretty significant for him.

College teams should develop players so that they generate the most value for the University during their time at the school. If you have a one year contract maybe not, but Ollie has a 5 year deal. Most businesses and sports team suck because they are short sited. Even if this wasn't the case developing facey over playing olander provides the best chance of Uconn winning the championship this year for all of the reasons I have stated multiple times. How many successful sports franchises, college teams, or businesses have you built? If you have done it being short sited, than all the power to you.
 
It's been said, but this is nuts. Playing time decisions should be based on what gives them the best chance of winning the game they're playing. That's it.

Win your minutes in practice. Tell Shabazz and Giffey that the focus is going to be on building for the future, see how that goes over.
That's not how it works, at least with the better coaches. JC would often give PT to the players he believed gave him the best chances to win in March. Now that doesn't mean you play someone who is simply not ready. In the case with Olander and Facey, I would not be surprised to see Ollie give Facey more and more of Olander's minutes. He's starting to demonstrate he is capable of defending his position, rebounding, and making some offensive plays. He doesn't know the offense well, but he'll learn if he gets minutes with some of the starters.

Ideally, you want both Olander and Facey post season ready, where both can play quality off-the-bench minutes when needed.

It seems many have forgotten what took place in 2011. During that unprecedented 11 game run that ended with UConn as the last team standing, every scholarship player contributed. Olander, Giffey, Roscoe, Okwandu, Jamal Coombs-McDaniel and even Beverly were getting some minutes during important moments of the game, and not just scrub time.

If our Huskies are going to have a chance to exceed their perceived projected ceiling, is for players such as Brimah, Nolan, Omar and Facey being developed now so that they'll be ready to consistently make plays a month from now. You might want to throw Samuel in there if they need a handler if Bazz and Boat are in foul trouble and they need him to hold things down for a few minutes. I've notice that Kromah is used to help bring the ball up court, but his handle is no where near what you want in your PGs or Combo-guards. It's a given that for this team to make some post-season noise, they need to get close to ceiling level performances from Bazz, Boat, Daniels, Giffey, and Kromah. It's the role players who have to develop enough to make some plays. This team is not the defensive unite that the 2011 was. I think we all agree, they defend well at times, but need to improve their rebounding and limit the second chance opportunities they're giving up way too often. That means all the players, starters and reserves alike, need to show the commitment to really go after rebounds like they have the past few games. It's for this reason, I think a battle tested Facey who's simply a better athlete and rebounds than TO us extremely important to develop during this stretch run. IMO, he gives UConn the better chance of winning than TO does one month from now, though there will be moments where TO will be counted upon to give us a few solid minutes at some critical point in a win-or-go-home game. He's probably a better matchup against big physical 5s that aren't too athletic, but even then, I thought Facey did a nice job against some big Houston dudes the other night.

Getting back to my original point, no good coach gives minutes to only the players who gives him the best chance of winning a game even this late in the season. There is about four weeks worth of games to develop this team. It's not like the 5 to 10 minutes that KO would give to Facey over TO would likely cost the team a W. IMO, giving him some of TO's minutes not only gives UConn the best chance of winning come March, it also gives Facey some valuable experience to speed up his development for next season and the ones to come. Tyler is closing in on the end of his run. I hope he finishes strong, but it's time to find more minutes for Facey, which some will come at Tyler's expense.
 
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Damn what has TO done to the fan base. 4 years and he still gets no respect. Any senior who has quality experience has value, whether he produces or not. Even with the limitations that TO has he knows the game of Div 1 basketball more than Facey, Brimah and Nolan combined. Not sure why people can't accept him for who he is, which is not an All American,

As for minutes and not seeing playing time do people really think that Ollie is that disloyal and cruel? He will see the floor again and we do need him.

People need to back off (and support) him, or not be hypocritical, and just go ahead and boo him on Senior night.
 
Yes, Facey's fun to watch and yes, he's made the most of his mostly garbage time minutes. But it makes no sense to change up the rotation in February, during conference season, by bringing in someone that hasn't shown in important minutes that he's ready. Facey will be good, but he is not yet good enough.
 
Facey is not a five, and shouldn't get a minute of time there. Olander only plays the five. The discussion is just dead on arrival on Facey getting any of Olanders minutes, against good teams.

The argument could be around cutting Calhouns minutes, playin Kromah much more at the two, giving Daniels minutes at the three and playing Facey a few more minutes at the four.

There really should be two sets of rotations, one against bad teams an one against good teams. I don't think Samuel or Facey have proven they can play decent minutes against good teams.
 
DD plays 30 at the 4. that leaves 50 for Brimah, Nolan and Facey to split. So about 17 each depending upon matchups, fouls etc. If it's a blow out than DD might only play 25. I am not dismissing anything Calhoun did last year. The double hip surgery obviously completely threw him off this year. He has been inferior in almost every way to both Kromah and Giffey. If you only play Facey for very short bursts once per week, than it is very hard for him to improve and get into a rhythm. You didn't address anything about my questions regarding development for the future.

Do you realize you just made Facey a center (at least part-time) and reduced Giffey's minutes? Are you ready to do this against Cinci, L'Ville and Memphis?

I would like to see him get more minutes against the rest of the pack at the 4 with a little lead or with DD or NG in foul trouble. It is funny that this part of this forum, which has been screaming for more time for NG all year, is now pushing for him to get less. Which is what happens in your scenario.
 
I've always been an Olander supporter, but I'm beginning to agree with you in part.

I wouldn't stop playing TO completed, but would begin to give Facey some of his minutes of they are at the 4 or at the 5 if the opponents 5 is not a skilled behemoth.

KO needs to find minutes to develop Facey and benefit from his talents, but also to keep TO as game ready as possible because there will be matchups where we'll need him.

With all that said, I don't know what the heck has happened to Tyler the past two seasons. He looks heavy, slow and even more unathletic than he did his freshman season. He can barely get off the ground. There was one play last night where one of the Houston bigs easily jumped over him for a rebound and another play where his man drove right around him like his feet were stuck in quicksand.

I remember he was suspended from the team once or twice, and I think he was recovering from an injury or surgery this past off-season. Am I right on the latter? My thought here is that some young men's bodies begin to change sometime between the age of 17 and early 20s. I'm wondering if this is what has happened to Tyler, and the combination of hitting the weight room while not working on his conditioning enough has resulted in what we're seeing.

Am I wrong, or didn't TO look a lot quicker and athletic his freshman, and maybe even his sophomore season? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Tyler was all that athletic to begin with, but my gosh he looks over his head athletic wise this season at this D1 highmajor level.

Agree on all points DM. TO was much more athletic FR and SO years. I think heading into JR year, with all of the departures from the team, he knew he'd be relied on as a center. He bulked up in preparation for that and lost any of the quickness he had.
 
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Not sure where this revisionist history that Olander was crucial to our success guarding Young came from, as johnhuskies said, he fouled out in eleven minutes and didn't record a single other statistic aside from one missed field goal. Tyler does some nice things out there - he's the best screener on the team, and probably the best passer of our big men (which doesn't say much, but still). He generally has a pretty good understanding of defensive rotations, he's a great teammate, and he's perfectly serviceable as a ninth or tenth man. But, most of the time it's just not worth having him out there. He regularly gets torched on defense (he isn't quick enough to guard fours and not strong enough to guard fives) and he doesn't do nearly enough on offense to offset that.

I'm happy to have him around, and I'm fine with him playing 5-10 minutes a game, but I don't get why the OP is taking so much heat for suggesting Olander's minutes should go to a kid that's displayed a much higher propensity for rebounding the basketball (though Olander rarely gets any minutes at the four, so the OP's idea is probably a non-starter, anyway).

Thanks Champ, agreed on most of your points.

Everyone here is arguing that TO won't get pushed around like Facey would at the center spot because he's bulkier. Defense doesn't matter if you can't secure rebounds at the end of possessions.

Too many times this season I've seen our team play great defense resulting in the other team forcing a bad shot, yet we cannot secure the rebound and the other team gets an easy lay-in or put-back. The whole team's defensive energy is sapped by playing good defense a whole possession and then not securing a rebound.

Simply put, rebounding is still the main deficiency of this team. Even though our team rebounding has improved lately, we still got out-rebounded by UL in that loss. When we win the rebounding battle, we are undefeated this year. Put Facey out there when we are struggling with rebounding. Let him learn the rest of the game. I'd rather see Facey at the 4 than the 5, but give him some time at both to see what he can do and to work on his weaknesses.

If we are all primarily defending Olander because everyone agrees that he 'sets good screens' then that says all we need to know about him. Facey is a + over Olander in regards to his offense and rebounding. Defense I'd say they're both sub-par, but Facey can learn from his mistakes and improve... I'm not sure we're going to see any improvement with Olander at this late juncture. Yes, we will need Olander when Brimah and Nolan are in foul trouble. But hopefully that won't happen too often. And if the other team doesn't have a dominant physical center, I'd rather see Facey in there over Olander.
 
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The guy who started this thread doesn't like TO.

Okay, I get that. But posting that Olander should not get another minute of playing time this year is beyond stupid.

Not bashing Olander. I just think Facey is a better option at this point. Especially if the other team does not have a dominating physical center.
 
Do you realize you just made Facey a center (at least part-time) and reduced Giffey's minutes? Are you ready to do this against Cinci, L'Ville and Memphis?

I would like to see him get more minutes against the rest of the pack at the 4 with a little lead or with DD or NG in foul trouble. It is funny that this part of this forum, which has been screaming for more time for NG all year, is now pushing for him to get less. Which is what happens in your scenario.

As I have stated before, it would depend upon matchups. facey has only played more than 6 minutes 3 times this year. My argument is we should give him another 5-10 minutes per game to develop him so we have the best team possible for the tournament and the future. How about play calhoun 12-15 mins per game. Bazz and Boat 30 each. kromah and Giffey about 20. That leaves a few flex minutes at the 1, 2, 3 positions so maybe bazz plays 33, giffey 23. DD 30 at the 4. Then 50 minutes for the 3 young bigs. An offense with bazz, boat, and giff has tons of play making ability and 3 point shooting. having two of the young bigs on the floor gives rebounding and shot blocking, which results in a good balance on both ends of the floor. Remember this lineup is only on the floor roughly 10 minutes per game and is just an average, so it would very depending upon the game etc. Would that lineup have worked the 1st game of the season. Maybe not because the 3 young bigs have showed improvement since the 1st game and the only thing we are addressing is the best thing going forward.
 
UCHusky "When we win the rebounding battle, we are undefeated this year. "

Yeah, but look at the teams we out rebounded' You could say when we play a week team, we out rebound them. At least that is better than early this season
But I think we agree we need to do better against good teams
 
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