Face Time

[Danzz]

Facey has upside. We know what TO is.

Olander is good for periods of 'great offense and great defense?' Seriously?
As others have mentioned, he's great at one thing and that's setting screens. We can use him inside if Brimah and Nolan are in foul trouble. He's a body in practice with experience that can help teach the young guys.

Its not as simple as saying we don't need TO anymore. I'm not disrespecting TO. But if we want to do things in March, Facey will be a contributer at the 4/5 spot more than Tyler and its that simple.

" Facey will be a contributor at the 4/5 spot more than Tyler and its that simple."
Watch him closely on D and then come back and post what you see. Tyler has obvious limitations but he is experienced and knows what he is doing on the court. Facey isn't there yet

 

[UChusky916]

" Facey will be a contributor at the 4/5 spot more than Tyler and its that simple."
Watch him closely on D and then come back and post what you see. Tyler has obvious limitations but he is experienced and knows what he is doing on the court. Facey isn't there yet

Facey had 3 blocks yesterday. I know he has a skinny frame and might not match up well with physical guys, but he's quick and athletic. He's not great at staying between his man and the hoop or picking up rotations... I noticed that. But gaining better knowledge about positioning can be taught and learned through experience. You can't teach Facey's rebounding instincts (He is one of the few on the team to predict how the ball comes off the rim) or his quickness/athleticism (He goes up and secures it, no tipping the ball to himself).

Tyler is slow and unathletic, yet experienced... But he's maxed out his potential. Give Facey the chance to grow and learn from his mistakes like how Brimah has done throughout the year. Both Brimah and Facey have high motors and a great work ethic and those are the ingredients needed to combine with ability that equals improvement and success. They just need the experience. That and they need to put on a few pounds.

 

[Inyatkin]

The Marcus White comparison is a good one. When he first appeared in garbage time in early-season games he was a vacuum on the boards, in a year we were looking for help at the 4. Calhoun at one point said if Shamon Tooles were three inches taller he'd have been the answer there. But White was so lost on everything else that it took him a while to break into the rotation.

 

[Danzz]

Facey had 3 blocks yesterday. I know he has a skinny frame and might not match up well with physical guys, but he's quick and athletic. He's not great at staying between his man and the hoop or picking up rotations... I noticed that. But gaining better knowledge about positioning can be taught and learned through experience. You can't teach Facey's rebounding instincts (He is one of the few on the team to predict how the ball comes off the rim) or his quickness/athleticism (He goes up and secures it, no tipping the ball to himself).

Tyler is slow and unathletic, yet experienced... But he's maxed out his potential. Give Facey the chance to grow and learn from his mistakes like how Brimah has done throughout the year. Both Brimah and Facey have high motors and a great work ethic and those are the ingredients needed to combine with ability that equals improvement and success. They just need the experience. That and they need to put on a few pounds.

You can't have a player give up easy points in the paint even if he gets a few blocks and rebounds per game. This is what Ollie sees and why we aren't seeing more of him. Everything else you said is true about his instincts and athleticism but practice is where he has to learn not the game. You really have to trust your coach on this one.

 

[breezy]

Its not as simple as saying we don't need TO anymore. I'm not disrespecting TO. But if we want to do things in March, Facey will be a contributer at the 4/5 spot more than Tyler and its that simple.

This is incredibly untrue. I think you're still foaming at the mouth like everyone else was about Facey back in in September. The kid definitely has potential but aside from last night, the only time I even remember him on the court is the Maine game. And that was the Maine game.

I hope I'm wrong and I hope Facey has 7 boards agains Cincy next week. But when Brimah and Nolan can't contain the behemoth centers out there don't tell me TO isn't gonna be the better option over Facey.

 

[James]

Olander isn't even playing bad. Our offensive plays the best when he's on the floor actually ( 142 points per 100 possession). He he sets screens and spaces the floor well. He's getting 9 minutes a game, not sure what the outrage is.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Ridiculous and juvenile point of view. X player played great, so we dont need Y player anymore at all!!!!

Tyler Olander has shown he can play brief periods of great offense and great defense. While much slower than the other bigs on the roster, he's by far the bulkiest that we have. When we face up against a team that has a solid meaty 6'10" guy on the block, in most cases Olander is the best to defend him. Even if he isn't the best, Brimah/Nolan/Facey would pick up quick fouls if that big knew how to play down low, so regardless, Olander would be needed to fill in time while the other bigs have foul trouble

Go play pickup ball with your teenage buddies, basketball isn't this simple

Great offense and great defense? . He's decent on offense and horrible on defense. He tries hard and competes but his conditioning is lacking to say the least and he has absolutely no lateral quickness. Guys can score at will on him.

 

[DogMania]

Olander needs to not see the floor for the rest of the year. Any of those minutes have to go to Facey, who has earned them. Last night, in just 16 minutes, he tied for the team lead in rebounding with a line of 7 pts, 7 reb, 3 blocks.

He simply ALWAYS produces when he's out there. He positions himself for boards better than any of our other forwards and centers and he has a high motor. He's got great hands. The kid can run the floor well (as we saw on the alley oop) and also has a decent handle for someone his size. With Deandre out, Facey was able to show what he's made of.

Ollie needs to start finding more minutes for him, especially when we are having problems rebounding. I want him to average about 5 minutes per game down the stretch at a minimum.

I've always been an Olander supporter, but I'm beginning to agree with you in part.

I wouldn't stop playing TO completed, but would begin to give Facey some of his minutes of they are at the 4 or at the 5 if the opponents 5 is not a skilled behemoth.

KO needs to find minutes to develop Facey and benefit from his talents, but also to keep TO as game ready as possible because there will be matchups where we'll need him.

With all that said, I don't know what the heck has happened to Tyler the past two seasons. He looks heavy, slow and even more unathletic than he did his freshman season. He can barely get off the ground. There was one play last night where one of the Houston bigs easily jumped over him for a rebound and another play where his man drove right around him like his feet were stuck in quicksand.

I remember he was suspended from the team once or twice, and I think he was recovering from an injury or surgery this past off-season. Am I right on the latter? My thought here is that some young men's bodies begin to change sometime between the age of 17 and early 20s. I'm wondering if this is what has happened to Tyler, and the combination of hitting the weight room while not working on his conditioning enough has resulted in what we're seeing.

Am I wrong, or didn't TO look a lot quicker and athletic his freshman, and maybe even his sophomore season? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Tyler was all that athletic to begin with, but my gosh he looks over his head athletic wise this season at this D1 highmajor level.

 

[Kembacity]

Great offense and great defense? . He's decent on offense and horrible on defense. He tries hard and competes but his conditioning is lacking to say the least and he has absolutely no lateral quickness. Guys can score at will on him.

I'm just saying he's capable of short periods of "great" play, for a bench guy, I'm not saying he has periods where he looks like an nba draft pick. Personally I'm recalling specific games and moments where he came in and played great D on a bulky big, or made big plays to keep us in the game. As a freshman I can remember the cuse game in the big east tourney when we were getting smashed early and TO came in and scored like 8 points to bring us back in. I can recall the highlights as they cut to commercial being TO hitting shots and celebrating, and how odd that seemed since he was one of the more forgettable players at that time.

All I'm saying is that due to certain matchups, Tyler is sometimes the PF I want on the floor the most. Big guys with moves have and will tear brimah/Nolan apart.

I stand by my point that against big front lines, we NEED Tyler

 

[johnhuskies95]

I'm just saying he's capable of short periods of "great" play, for a bench guy, I'm not saying he has periods where he looks like an nba draft pick. Personally I'm recalling specific games and moments where he came in and played great D on a bulky big, or made big plays to keep us in the game. As a freshman I can remember the cuse game in the big east tourney when we were getting smashed early and TO came in and scored like 8 points to bring us back in. I can recall the highlights as they cut to commercial being TO hitting shots and celebrating, and how odd that seemed since he was one of the more forgettable players at that time.

All I'm saying is that due to certain matchups, Tyler is sometimes the PF I want on the floor the most. Big guys with moves have and will tear brimah/Nolan apart.

I stand by my point that against big front lines, we NEED Tyler

And big guys with moves don't tear Olander apart?

 

[Pudge]

I think many miss the value of interior positioning and too often watch the Stat sheet - blocks, rebounds, points. A Big Guy isn't always about the Stat sheet. Olander does a lot of really important things that the other 3 have just not quite learned yet. Blocking out and screening and footwork. You look at the rebounds per minute of a Facey and you say ... wow ... give him more. I think we'd be less of a Team if we consistently went that way with the 4/5 spots. Guarding someone in the interior is Job 1. Followed by understanding positioning/screening on Offense. You don't have numbers on those.

 

[Kembacity]

And big guys with moves don't tear Olander apart?

Not nearly as badly as they'd tear apart brimah/Nolan/facey. Olander is an easy punch line but over the years he's proven that he can handle some defensive duties on bigs. I just feel like this is the classic, "this guys no Patrick Ewing", he's a bench player with no big aspirations, he hasn't gotten better over the years at all, but when push comes to shove he's by far the guy id pick to guard an opposing big. I think Ollie rarely uses him because we play small, we run, that's the plan. In certain situations you expect to see him, and there's a reason. I put more stock in the coaching staff than I do in the ramblings of fans

 

[johnhuskies95]

Not nearly as badly as they'd tear apart brimah/Nolan/facey. Olander is an easy punch line but over the years he's proven that he can handle some defensive duties on bigs. I just feel like this is the classic, "this guys no Patrick Ewing", he's a bench player with no big aspirations, he hasn't gotten better over the years at all, but when push comes to shove he's by far the guy id pick to guard an opposing big. I think Ollie rarely uses him because we play small, we run, that's the plan. In certain situations you expect to see him, and there's a reason. I put more stock in the coaching staff than I do in the ramblings of fans

So do you have any examples?

And yeah, I do put more stock in the coaching staff than I do in the ramblings of fans. Guess what? Brimah and Nolan play more than Olander does.

 

[joober jones]

I've always been an Olander supporter, but I'm beginning to agree with you in part.

I wouldn't stop playing TO completed, but would begin to give Facey some of his minutes of they are at the 4 or at the 5 if the opponents 5 is not a skilled behemoth.

KO needs to find minutes to develop Facey and benefit from his talents, but also to keep TO as game ready as possible because there will be matchups where we'll need him.

With all that said, I don't know what the heck has happened to Tyler the past two seasons. He looks heavy, slow and even more unathletic than he did his freshman season. He can barely get off the ground. There was one play last night where one of the Houston bigs easily jumped over him for a rebound and another play where his man drove right around him like his feet were stuck in quicksand.

I remember he was suspended from the team once or twice, and I think he was recovering from an injury or surgery this past off-season. Am I right on the latter? My thought here is that some young men's bodies begin to change sometime between the age of 17 and early 20s. I'm wondering if this is what has happened to Tyler, and the combination of hitting the weight room while not working on his conditioning enough has resulted in what we're seeing.

Am I wrong, or didn't TO look a lot quicker and athletic his freshman, and maybe even his sophomore season? Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Tyler was all that athletic to begin with, but my gosh he looks over his head athletic wise this season at this D1 highmajor level.

I tend to agree with your last paragraph. There are times when bulking up will do some guys more harm than good.

 

[Kembacity]

So do you have any examples?

And yeah, I do put more stock in the coaching staff than I do in the ramblings of fans. Guess what? Brimah and Nolan play more than Olander does.

Oh congratulations for making your own tangential point!

The thread calls for a benching of Tyler in favor of Facey... I've said before that we play an up-tempo style and Tyler is blatantly the only guy getting any minutes that gets in the way of that style.

What do you want examples of? I don't specifically remember, but how did our stringbean bigs fare against Patric Young of Florida? For some reason I recall Tyler playing decent D on him. I'm not calling Olander a star, but he's an absolutely necessary piece on this team, and in certain matchups in March, Ollie's going to need him. Take him off our team, and a team with brick shithouse bigs would just dominate us. Shabazz would need to be 9-9 on 3's to keep us in it

 

[johnhuskies95]

Oh congratulations for making your own tangential point!

The thread calls for a benching of Tyler in favor of Facey... I've said before that we play an up-tempo style and Tyler is blatantly the only guy getting any minutes that gets in the way of that style.

What do you want examples of? I don't specifically remember, but how did our stringbean bigs fare against Patric Young of Florida? For some reason I recall Tyler playing decent D on him. I'm not calling Olander a star, but he's an absolutely necessary piece on this team, and in certain matchups in March, Ollie's going to need him. Take him off our team, and a team with brick house bigs would just dominate us. Shabazz would need to be 9-9 on 3's to keep us in it

You specifically said "big guys with moves have and will tear Brimah/Nolan apart". That's what I was referring to and arguing with you about.

Young dominated everybody on UConn, Olander included. That's why he had 5 fouls in 11 minutes.

I just really don't see why you think Olander is more equipped to guard bigger bodies than any of the other big guys.

 

[champs99and04]

Not sure where this revisionist history that Olander was crucial to our success guarding Young came from, as johnhuskies said, he fouled out in eleven minutes and didn't record a single other statistic aside from one missed field goal. Tyler does some nice things out there - he's the best screener on the team, and probably the best passer of our big men (which doesn't say much, but still). He generally has a pretty good understanding of defensive rotations, he's a great teammate, and he's perfectly serviceable as a ninth or tenth man. But, most of the time it's just not worth having him out there. He regularly gets torched on defense (he isn't quick enough to guard fours and not strong enough to guard fives) and he doesn't do nearly enough on offense to offset that.

I'm happy to have him around, and I'm fine with him playing 5-10 minutes a game, but I don't get why the OP is taking so much heat for suggesting Olander's minutes should go to a kid that's displayed a much higher propensity for rebounding the basketball (though Olander rarely gets any minutes at the four, so the OP's idea is probably a non-starter, anyway).

 

[David 76]

I don't think Tyler has hit his ceiling. I think he has passed his ceiling. He is not the player he was last year. Still he adds to our overall tools in the toolbox.

And before our rebounding problems are declared solved, look at who we played for 6 of the last 7 games. Our guys have improved a lot, but against a top front court, they are still our Achilles heel.

Finally, as someone said, they play different positions. I want more time for Facey too but that is DD's & NG's time not TO's

 

[Palatine]

The guy who started this thread doesn't like TO.

Okay, I get that. But posting that Olander should not get another minute of playing time this year is beyond stupid.

 

[champs99and04]

The guy who started this thread doesn't like TO.

Okay, I get that. But posting that Olander should not get another minute of playing time this year is beyond stupid.

It's definitely an over-statement to say Olander shouldn't play another minute, but I don't think it was intended to be a bash Olander thread.

 

[jdb50]

There is no one answer, before all is said and done this year we will need Tyler and hopefully he will come through. Playing Facey more ? Yes that should happen. Everyone on this team is important and after watching the 99 championsip video again it just reinforces this point. It would be nice if Tyler lost about 10 lbs over the course of the rest of the season and regained some quickness. It's the stretch run and we are starting to get our act together.

 

[DogMania]

There is no one answer, before all is said and done this year we will need Tyler and hopefully he will come through. Playing Facey more ? Yes that should happen. Everyone on this team is important and after watching the 99 championsip video again it just reinforces this point. It would be nice if Tyler lost about 10 lbs over the course of the rest of the season and regained some quickness. It's the stretch run and we are starting to get our act together.

If not being done already, it wouldn't be such a bad idea if KO had Tyler working hard on the bike or treadmill, lightening up on the weights and working on footwork drills to try to get him in the best possible shape to contribute this March. It's kinda late in the season to do so, but even a little improvement with his quickness and lift might make enough difference between him being a solid contributor for a shift or two on the floor or being a liability. He's been awful on D and on the glass lately. IMO, the bucket or two and the handful of solid screens often doesn't offset his defensive deficiencies that often costs us points, giving up second chances, exposing teammates to committing fouls when his man blows by him or out-jumps him for the rebound and helping teams get to the 1-and-1 or bonus a lot quicker.

 

[babysheep]

Freshman Facey get beat on defense because he's learning the college game and pace, while Senior TO gets beat because he's slow and unathletic. Does nobody see the important distinction there?

TO is a great practice player and a body to occupy space when our good players are resting or in foul trouble. Not much more. Let's not kid ourselves here. I don't think anybody really gets excited to see TO getting ready to come in. There's a reason for that. Don't argue his defense on Patric Young. In 11 minutes against him, TO fouled out with a massive donut. Young had his highest point production of the year thus far that game. Even PN, playing the same time, got more production.

Now, I'm certainly not saying dude should never see the floor. He is a viable big third string body who has at least some offensive skill and knowledge as a support role. I think the main overall point here is that Facey's minutes need to be increased at the 4, and, if the other team goes small, at the 5. TO shouldn't be out there at the 5 if that happens anyway. If that affects TO's PT in some way, so be it. We actually have a post-season to be ready for this season.

 

[Gurleyman]

Freshman Facey get beat on defense because he's learning the college game and pace, while Senior TO gets beat because he's slow and unathletic. Does nobody see the important distinction there?

TO is a great practice player and a body to occupy space when our good players are resting or in foul trouble. Not much more. Let's not kid ourselves here. I don't think anybody really gets excited to see TO getting ready to come in. There's a reason for that. Don't argue his defense on Patric Young. In 11 minutes against him, TO fouled out with a massive donut. Young had his highest point production of the year thus far that game. Even PN, playing the same time, got more production.

Now, I'm certainly not saying dude should never see the floor. He is a viable big third string body who has at least some offensive skill and knowledge as a support role. I think the main overall point here is that Facey's minutes need to be increased at the 4, and, if the other team goes small, at the 5. TO shouldn't be out there at the 5 if that happens anyway. If that affects TO's PT in some way, so be it. We actually have a post-season to be ready for this season.

The last 3 games, Tyler's minutes have been 3-3-6, and the only reason he got 6 was we won by 40. Fighting over his minutes now is like fighting over the parsley on a dinner plate. With Brimah and Nolan playing a little better, TO is barely in the rotation.

The point others make about Patric Young was that TO defended better than our other bigs that night, which I think is a fair point. Nobody matched up well with him, but TO did keep him further off the block and forced him into tougher shots. Young backed Brimah down to within three feet and just powered shots over him like he wasn't there. The fact TO didn't score is totally irrelevant to how well he played D. I think Brimah would defend him better in a rematch, though - now that he has a little more experience, but if there's a big who is torching us by getting deep post position, TO is at least a different look to try.

 

[dtrumpet]

In addition to other TO support above, its worth noting that he knows his limitations and usually plays within them, especially on offense.
Today's article in the Courant regarding the emphasis on defense since the Texas trip would seem to indicate Facey will not be getting more minutes going forward. Especially against Cincy this week. Those guys won't just box him out, they'll box him out of bounds.