Evina Finishes Rehab Thread morphed into another Who Starts Next Year Thread

[Scud49]

I am embararrased to put an Evina update into an Evina thread but here we go.

How dare you hijack the thread back from the hijackers. Appalled, I say, just appalled....!

 

[BobbyJ]

AND... You forgot to mention that part of her rehab was growing another inch. Article says she's 6'1".

WTH is it with not being able to get accurate heights on kids? Isn't there some kind of App yet that you can point the phone and get the right number?

 

[hoopsfan22]

I would love for Jamelle to stay on as a permanent coach, but she may not want the time commitment that requires.

 

[Carnac]

I would love for Jamelle to stay on as a permanent coach, but she may not want the time commitment that requires.

Agreed. Jemelle has paid her dues. At THIS point in her life, she has earned the right to choose and be happy in HER choice of assignments. She may not wish to coach any more. At some point, ALL coaches decide they've had enough (as Muffet McGraw just did), and either retire or move on to other opportunities or interests. I emphatically join you in your desire to have Jemelle back for as long as she wishes to stay, but it's about what SHE wants. WE can't be selfish here. The entire team would profit from her experience and approach to the game. We should ALL want her to be happy in what ever career path she chooses to take from here. Jemelle, we're glad to have you back home.

 

[MilfordHusky]

AND... You forgot to mention that part of her rehab was growing another inch. Article says she's 6'1".

I saw a nice pic of Evina, Meg, and Crystal over the weekend. Evina looked slightly taller than Meg.

 

[DEpup]

I saw a nice pic of Evina, Meg, and Crystal over the weekend. Evina looked slightly taller than Meg.

I saw them close to each other in person a couple times and they are about the same size in height and even build. With them, I think a different shoe or a little slouch can make one look taller than the other.

 

[MilfordHusky]

I saw them close to each other in person a couple times and they are about the same size in height and even build. With them, I think a different shoe or a little slouch can make one look taller than the other.

I think Meg is heavier/more solid, though Evina has a nice athletic look to her. Both seem to be 6'0" to 6'1".

 

[BBallF]

I'm excluding "the 1st week starters" for this discussion and looking more towards who will mostly start. And providing instances to your question of how Paige breaks in and settles as the eventual starter. OFC it's possible she won't. But I don't think so.

There are 4 wildcards when it comes to starters at PF (Griff, Edwards, Anna, and Evina). To further that- imo we don't know what Evina is. For example you see her as a 1/2, I see her as a 3 hopeful she can be a 4, ---and as a backup 1 and a 2.

I realize their is legit fear of rebounding. And as you mention "a 2nd rebounder." So assume Anna or Evina is the PF and we lose that 2nd rebounder. Liv will be a better rebounder than last year. With experience Evina or Anna that plays the SF will be a better rebounder than last year. CWill should be better. And Paige should be a better rebounder than Danger. In addition the team will possibly be able to press and trap more thus forcing game to be played at more a fast guard type pace rather than halfcourt pound in the paint pace. Thus it could be possible that not starting that 2nd rebounder can be overcome.

One option: If Muhl is legit and if either Evina or Anna (I don't see Anna as a PF but others think possible. I think possible though less possible.) can play the PF then Paige starts. Even if Muhl is not legit then if Anna or Evina can play the pf then it means Paige starts.

2nd Option: On the other hand-- if Evina is not much of a pg - but more of a situational/backup pg then maybe she comes off the bench similar to UCONN having Stevens come off the bench even though she was better than Danger. If Evina comes off the bench similar to Stevens years ago then Paige starts.

3rd Option: It's also possible that Evina is a better sf than Anna and either Edwards or Griff establish themselves a good legit PF. Then it could mean Paige starts and Anna comes off the bench.

4th Option: Edwards or Griff are legit-- doesn't matter who SF is-- Paige being a superior PG to anyone on the team-- she starts.
--------------------
There is only 1 player that can prevent Paige from not starting and that's Evina. The poster UConnCat sent me a post on this thread with quotes from Geno that even he had no idea what Evina is.

First of all, why would you put anyone else out of position to play the 4and not play

I'm excluding "the 1st week starters" for this discussion and looking more towards who will mostly start. And providing instances to your question of how Paige breaks in and settles as the eventual starter. OFC it's possible she won't. But I don't think so.

There are 4 wildcards when it comes to starters at PF (Griff, Edwards, Anna, and Evina). To further that- imo we don't know what Evina is. For example you see her as a 1/2, I see her as a 3 hopeful she can be a 4, ---and as a backup 1 and a 2.

I realize their is legit fear of rebounding. And as you mention "a 2nd rebounder." So assume Anna or Evina is the PF and we lose that 2nd rebounder. Liv will be a better rebounder than last year. With experience Evina or Anna that plays the SF will be a better rebounder than last year. CWill should be better. And Paige should be a better rebounder than Danger. In addition the team will possibly be able to press and trap more thus forcing game to be played at more a fast guard type pace rather than halfcourt pound in the paint pace. Thus it could be possible that not starting that 2nd rebounder can be overcome.

One option: If Muhl is legit and if either Evina or Anna (I don't see Anna as a PF but others think possible. I think possible though less possible.) can play the PF then Paige starts. Even if Muhl is not legit then if Anna or Evina can play the pf then it means Paige starts.

2nd Option: On the other hand-- if Evina is not much of a pg - but more of a situational/backup pg then maybe she comes off the bench similar to UCONN having Stevens come off the bench even though she was better than Danger. If Evina comes off the bench similar to Stevens years ago then Paige starts.

3rd Option: It's also possible that Evina is a better sf than Anna and either Edwards or Griff establish themselves a good legit PF. Then it could mean Paige starts and Anna comes off the bench.

4th Option: Edwards or Griff are legit-- doesn't matter who SF is-- Paige being a superior PG to anyone on the team-- she starts.
--------------------
There is only 1 player that can prevent Paige from not starting and that's Evina. The poster UConnCat sent me a post on this thread with quotes from Geno that even he had no idea what Evina is.

First of all, why put a player like Anna or Evina out of position to play the 4 when you have a player whose natural position it has become in Aubrey? There is no way Anna can play or should play the 4. She is not athletic enough( although I think we will see improvement over the summer) in terms of jumping or physicality and is a great open court passer and needs to be out in transition first. Power forwards don't lead the break. They can't since they are too far back in the court to start it. Yes, Evina is a question mark but she was the PG on Tennessee, not a forward and she is not going to play out of position. Nobody is this year. Meg was the 4 last year because you start and play your best players and there was no choice and she had the gifts to rebound. One center rebounding is not enough in women's basketball and you also need a solid defender at the 4 as well, i.e. Aubrey with Edwards coming in. When you have the players you don't put people out of position because it compromises other aspects of the game. Evina starts unless she hasn't come back from her surgeries. She is very, very good and is being overlooked because of Paige frenzy. I love Paige too but we have a very deep team and Evina is a lot better than she is being given credit for and has 2 years experience and is 3 years older.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Agreed. Jemelle has paid her dues. At THIS point in her life, she has earned the right to choose and be happy in HER choice of assignments. She may not wish to coach any more at THIS point in her life. At some point, ALL coaches decide they've had enough (as Muffet McGraw just did), and either retire or move on to other opportunities or interests. I emphatically join you in your desire to have Jemelle back for as long as she wishes to stay, but it's about what SHE wants. WE can't be selfish here. We should ALL want her to be happy in what ever capacity she chooses to work in at UConn.

You are again, proving to be the venerable sage....

 

[hoophuskee]

First of all, why would you put anyone else out of position to play the 4and not play

First of all, why put a player like Anna or Evina out of position to play the 4 when you have a player whose natural position it has become in Aubrey? There is no way Anna can play or should play the 4. She is not athletic enough( although I think we will see improvement over the summer) in terms of jumping or physicality and is a great open court passer and needs to be out in transition first. Power forwards don't lead the break. They can't since they are too far back in the court to start it. Yes, Evina is a question mark but she was the PG on Tennessee, not a forward and she is not going to play out of position. Nobody is this year. Meg was the 4 last year because you start and play your best players and there was no choice and she had the gifts to rebound. One center rebounding is not enough in women's basketball and you also need a solid defender at the 4 as well, i.e. Aubrey with Edwards coming in. When you have the players you don't put people out of position because it compromises other aspects of the game. Evina starts unless she hasn't come back from her surgeries. She is very, very good and is being overlooked because of Paige frenzy. I love Paige too but we have a very deep team and Evina is a lot better than she is being given credit for and has 2 years experience and is 3 years older.

How did Walker do playing the PF? She was out of position and started and was 1st team A/A. Walker is a better basketball player at the 4 than what Griff was. Why can't Evina be 1st team A/A or close to it at PF by being similar to Walker? I don't agree overall with your acceptance of Meg as a PF but then you speak of "Playing out of position" as reason not to play others. IMO it's a contradiction. It doesn't make a difference that they "had to play" Walker at PF. What is important is that when she played it- she did it very well even though she was out of position.

I tend to agree with you about Anna but I won't dismiss the Anna PF possibility either.. But as as PF;s not leading the break -- it won't matter- the team will have to gang rebound. Again I don't know if Anna can but leading the break imo isn't much to concern about. Paige, Evina and CWill potentially lethal enough if they were on the break. It shouldn't matter that Anna is not one of the 3 if the other 3 are devastating. But again I thought Anna less likely - similar to you - though I feel she is a possibility.

As far as "one center rebounding" is not enough-- I agree. Which is why you have other players helping. There are more players that can rebound other that PF's. Danger gave UCONN really no rebounding help. Potentially you have 4 better rebounders. As I've said in the past Anna or Evina don't have to be as good of rebounder as Walker. Just be close -- whatever "close is."

And again I don't entirely agree when you say you play Meg because "you play your best players" then disregard potentially Evina at pf and Paige at PG. Your defense of that statement is that "Edwards and Griff" are good enough. Well if Aubrey can't shoot then imo she isn't good enough. Show me Aubrey can shoot then ofc I'm more inclined to have her start. If you have a player that can't score, can't pass very well then unless you have a superstar like a DT or Maya etc - that one player will drag down your offense. And as far as Edwards-- I don't know what she is yet. If you are confident in them-- great. I hope you are right. I'm just open to questioning how good they are.

As far as Evina-- I don't think she was a very good pg. She looks extremely awkward playing it. IMO she was playing out of position at PG for Tennessee or similar to UCONN with Walker they were forced to play Evina (or promised her) there. But again I only saw a little bit of her. I need to see more of Evina before I declare her a good pg which you think she is. If she is-- great. Until i see it-- I think she is more of a SF. SO if Edwards or Aubrey is legit PF on both sides offense and defense- then after I'm looking for Paige to be the PG whether it be week 1 or 3 or 5- and then have Anna or Evina off the bench. As UconnCat pointed out on this thread - direct quote from Geno-- he doesn't know what Aubrey is either. The limited time I saw her- I don't see a natural pg.

 

[diggerfoot]

First of all, why would you put anyone else out of position to play the 4and not play

First of all, why put a player like Anna or Evina out of position to play the 4 when you have a player whose natural position it has become in Aubrey? There is no way Anna can play or should play the 4. She is not athletic enough( although I think we will see improvement over the summer) in terms of jumping or physicality and is a great open court passer and needs to be out in transition first. Power forwards don't lead the break. They can't since they are too far back in the court to start it. Yes, Evina is a question mark but she was the PG on Tennessee, not a forward and she is not going to play out of position. Nobody is this year. Meg was the 4 last year because you start and play your best players and there was no choice and she had the gifts to rebound. One center rebounding is not enough in women's basketball and you also need a solid defender at the 4 as well, i.e. Aubrey with Edwards coming in. When you have the players you don't put people out of position because it compromises other aspects of the game. Evina starts unless she hasn't come back from her surgeries. She is very, very good and is being overlooked because of Paige frenzy. I love Paige too but we have a very deep team and Evina is a lot better than she is being given credit for and has 2 years experience and is 3 years older.

My defense of Makurat at the 4 was not an advocacy. It was presented in the context of "if Bueckers, Westbrook, Williams and Makurat were to start" some thought Westbrook would have to play the 4, making that an automatic arguments against it. My defense then was to claim that if those four were the starters, it would be Makurat as the most logical to play PF. Any of those four would be out of position as the PF, but Makurat has the physical attributes most suitable for PF out of those choices and pays attention to fundamentals. I have no doubt she could be trained to execute the fundamentals of a PF.

It is true that Griffin is the best returnng defender, but there are a few caveats to that. ONO's sheer height, for example, makes her an intimidating presence in the paint regardless of her ability (which is good). You would not start Griffin over ONO even if she was the weakest of the five (which she is not, I'm just making a point). I actually think Griffin's best position would be as a wing, not a post, because of her athleticism and ability to be all over the place. Makurat does not have that ability, of course, but neither did Dolson, a DPOY not by virtue of athleticism, nor of height alone, but also because of footwork and always being in the right place at the right time (same is true for Voskuhl on the men's side). That is more critical in the post than at the wing and I actually would trust Makurat to be in the right place at the right time more than most of the UConn roster. So the question then becomes how much has Griffin developed on offense to make it worth starting her at the wing or PF instead of one of the other four.

Personally, I think Edwards is destined for the PF sooner rather than later. Personally, I do not think Makurat or Griffin belong at PF as our upcoming roster blossoms with bigs. But if I had to pick one out of Bueckers, Westbrook, Williams or Makurat to play PF, the most likely choice to me would be Makurat. I certainly would not pick Westbrook, Williams would probably be my second choice with hopes she could perform like the 5'11" Barbara Turner at that position; those two players have a few similarities.

 

[Huskie02]

This removes any "speculation" about her status and health going into the season. For the sake of discussion, we can now assume she is 100% healthy. Now, all we have to figure out is how she fits into the equation, and who the 5 starters will be (It's THAT time of the year ). We will also assume that the 3 returning starters (ONO, Williams & Makurat) will be starters again THIS year.

Some think she's a starter for sure, others think she comes off the bench. I think it's too early to tell at this point. November is 5 months away. There are several leading candidates for the two openings: Evina Westbrook, Aubrey Griffin, Paige Bueckers, Aaliyah Edwards and Nika Muhl. I believe the two new starters will come from this group. Query: What if Geno decides to run a 3 guard offense?

Anyone of these players can muscle their way into the starting lineup. I can't see Aubrey Griffin coming off the bench again this year. She paid her dues. There are some here that want to keep her as 6th man. I say start her, and develop a new 6th man. She's too valuable to come off the bench. Edwards, because of her experience with the Canadian National Team, is the only newbie coming in that has experience at a higher level of play than Griffin, and the only newcomer that (IMO) has any chance of moving ahead of her on the depth chart.

Edwards (and the others) still have to gain Geno's trust and have a clue of the system before he puts then in a game for long periods of "meaningful" minutes. When Geno looks down the bench this year for a sub, he'll have lots of options that he didn't have the last two years. Geno will put the freshmen on the floor at the appropriate time in situations they can handle and have success in.

View attachment 54533

This is a new year. Expect Griffin to make the anticipated sophomore leap. She should know what's she's doing now. She's a year older, stronger and more mature. She's a play maker!! I look for her to be more aggressive on offense, and not defer to others as much as she did last year. THAT ship has sailed. I also look for Geno to give her a little more leeway this year.........perhaps a lot more leeway.

"Before the season, Auriemma said neither he nor Griffin knew how good she could be. Thirty-two games into her collegiate career, that sentiment still holds true. While she showed flashes of greatness with performances such as the 25 point, 12 rebound game vs Seton Hall, or the 16-point, 15-rebound night in the AAC Tournament, those games barely scratched the surface of her potential.

Most of Griffin’s points either came off offensive rebounds or from the free throw line — which isn’t a knock on her. Instead, it just shows how dangerous of a player she already is without much of a refined offensive game. If Griffin can smooth out the edges and have more moments where she’s aggressive and unstoppable going to the rim instead of the deer-in-headlights moments, the sky is the limit for the rising sophomore."

She can still do things no one else on the team can do. The freshman mistakes she made last year, won't be made THIS year. In short, if there's somebody on the team that has "earned" to start over her (smh), UConn is going to have one hell-of-a-team this season. I don't know who the 5th starter will be (I like Westbrook for lots of reasons), but I'm betting Aubrey will be #4.

Note - No guarantees here, but the 6th man has a fairly consistent track record of starting for Geno the next year. We'll see.

Geno said that NONE OF US here in the yard have a clue, so that means that this comment and all of the other comments posted here and $5.00, will get you a cup of coffee at Starbuck's. There are only so many combinations he can put out there. Some of us have got to be right with our choices.

One thing I do know.......... I'm going to root and cheer hard for whoever he puts out there.......................ALL SEASON LONG!!

Anyone of the players you mentioned could push Makurat out of her starting role which presents a different scenario.

 

[Carnac]

Anyone of the players you mentioned could push Makurat out of her starting role which presents a different scenario.

And if one of them do, that will make UConn even more formidable and deeper that we (the yard) anticipate they’ll be. That won’t be a problem. I'm sure that would make Geno very happy.

 

[Go/huskies]

My defense of Makurat at the 4 was not an advocacy. It was presented in the context of "if Bueckers, Westbrook, Williams and Makurat were to start" some thought Westbrook would have to play the 4, making that an automatic arguments against it. My defense then was to claim that if those four were the starters, it would be Makurat as the most logical to play PF. Any of those four would be out of position as the PF, but Makurat has the physical attributes most suitable for PF out of those choices and pays attention to fundamentals. I have no doubt she could be trained to execute the fundamentals of a PF.

It is true that Griffin is the best returnng defender, but there are a few caveats to that. ONO's sheer height, for example, makes her an intimidating presence in the paint regardless of her ability (which is good). You would not start Griffin over ONO even if she was the weakest of the five (which she is not, I'm just making a point). I actually think Griffin's best position would be as a wing, not a post, because of her athleticism and ability to be all over the place. Makurat does not have that ability, of course, but neither did Dolson, a DPOY not by virtue of athleticism, nor of height alone, but also because of footwork and always being in the right place at the right time (same is true for Voskuhl on the men's side). That is more critical in the post than at the wing and I actually would trust Makurat to be in the right place at the right time more than most of the UConn roster. So the question then becomes how much has Griffin developed on offense to make it worth starting her at the wing or PF instead of one of the other four.

Personally, I think Edwards is destined for the PF sooner rather than later. Personally, I do not think Makurat or Griffin belong at PF as our upcoming roster blossoms with bigs. But if I had to pick one out of Bueckers, Westbrook, Williams or Makurat to play PF, the most likely choice to me would be Makurat. I certainly would not pick Westbrook, Williams would probably be my second choice with hopes she could perform like the 5'11" Barbara Turner at that position; those two players have a few similarities.

I agree, I also pointed out earlier that Westbrook, had some high assist games while at Tennessee, that’s why I think she will share the backcourt with Paige, moving Williams to the wing.

 

[chrissaran]

I agree Griggs. Aubrey needs to hit mid-range jumpers and be more in control of her play. Controlled aggression.

 

[HopJim]

Anyone of the players you mentioned could push Makurat out of her starting role which presents a different scenario.

With many of UConn's key competition having strong inside players, they often use pick and rolls against smaller guards. Another benefit of having Makurat out there is that she has the strength not to get overpowered on switches.

 

[BBallF]

My defense of Makurat at the 4 was not an advocacy. It was presented in the context of "if Bueckers, Westbrook, Williams and Makurat were to start" some thought Westbrook would have to play the 4, making that an automatic arguments against it. My defense then was to claim that if those four were the starters, it would be Makurat as the most logical to play PF. Any of those four would be out of position as the PF, but Makurat has the physical attributes most suitable for PF out of those choices and pays attention to fundamentals. I have no doubt she could be trained to execute the fundamentals of a PF.

It is true that Griffin is the best returnng defender, but there are a few caveats to that. ONO's sheer height, for example, makes her an intimidating presence in the paint regardless of her ability (which is good). You would not start Griffin over ONO even if she was the weakest of the five (which she is not, I'm just making a point). I actually think Griffin's best position would be as a wing, not a post, because of her athleticism and ability to be all over the place. Makurat does not have that ability, of course, but neither did Dolson, a DPOY not by virtue of athleticism, nor of height alone, but also because of footwork and always being in the right place at the right time (same is true for Voskuhl on the men's side). That is more critical in the post than at the wing and I actually would trust Makurat to be in the right place at the right time more than most of the UConn roster. So the question then becomes how much has Griffin developed on offense to make it worth starting her at the wing or PF instead of one of the other four.

Personally, I think Edwards is destined for the PF sooner rather than later. Personally, I do not think Makurat or Griffin belong at PF as our upcoming roster blossoms with bigs. But if I had to pick one out of Bueckers, Westbrook, Williams or Makurat to play PF, the most likely choice to me would be Makurat. I certainly would not pick Westbrook, Williams would probably be my second choice with hopes she could perform like the 5'11" Barbara Turner at that position; those two players have a few similarities.

How did Walker do playing the PF? She was out of position and started and was 1st team A/A. Walker is a better basketball player at the 4 than what Griff was. Why can't Evina be 1st team A/A or close to it at PF by being similar to Walker? I don't agree overall with your acceptance of Meg as a PF but then you speak of "Playing out of position" as reason not to play others. IMO it's a contradiction. It doesn't make a difference that they "had to play" Walker at PF. What is important is that when she played it- she did it very well even though she was out of position.

I tend to agree with you about Anna but I won't dismiss the Anna PF possibility either.. But as as PF;s not leading the break -- it won't matter- the team will have to gang rebound. Again I don't know if Anna can but leading the break imo isn't much to concern about. Paige, Evina and CWill potentially lethal enough if they were on the break. It shouldn't matter that Anna is not one of the 3 if the other 3 are devastating. But again I thought Anna less likely - similar to you - though I feel she is a possibility.

As far as "one center rebounding" is not enough-- I agree. Which is why you have other players helping. There are more players that can rebound other that PF's. Danger gave UCONN really no rebounding help. Potentially you have 4 better rebounders. As I've said in the past Anna or Evina don't have to be as good of rebounder as Walker. Just be close -- whatever "close is."

And again I don't entirely agree when you say you play Meg because "you play your best players" then disregard potentially Evina at pf and Paige at PG. Your defense of that statement is that "Edwards and Griff" are good enough. Well if Aubrey can't shoot then imo she isn't good enough. Show me Aubrey can shoot then ofc I'm more inclined to have her start. If you have a player that can't score, can't pass very well then unless you have a superstar like a DT or Maya etc - that one player will drag down your offense. And as far as Edwards-- I don't know what she is yet. If you are confident in them-- great. I hope you are right. I'm just open to questioning how good they are.

As far as Evina-- I don't think she was a very good pg. She looks extremely awkward playing it. IMO she was playing out of position at PG for Tennessee or similar to UCONN with Walker they were forced to play Evina (or promised her) there. But again I only saw a little bit of her. I need to see more of Evina before I declare her a good pg which you think she is. If she is-- great. Until i see it-- I think she is more of a SF. SO if Edwards or Aubrey is legit PF on both sides offense and defense- then after I'm looking for Paige to be the PG whether it be week 1 or 3 or 5- and then have Anna or Evina off the bench. As UconnCat pointed out on this thread - direct quote from Geno-- he doesn't know what Aubrey is either. The limited time I saw her- I don't see a natural pg.

Okay, let's continue this dialogue because it makes next year even more interesting. First of all, Anna is not Meg. She doesn't jump as high, she isn't as physical as Meg and never will be and Geno loved Anna in transition with the ball in her hands. I can't see her defending the second big on the better teams. While Meg made AA last year, she was very much outsized and out muscled against the bigger and better teams. Her numbers against those teams were poor and part of it was because of the height mismatch on both offense and defense. Why push Anna or Evina down below when you have other low post players? If Paige is that good that fast you may see different lineups against different teams but I doubt it. That is not how Geno works. Let's look at the past 4 years. We were undersized from Day 1. The game has gotten bigger and stronger underneath. When you get into the Big Dance size matters. Both SC and Baylor were very big teams when they won it, both with dominating post players. If we had another strong inside player in the last 4 years to complement Pheesa or Liv, with the exception of Azure for her 1 season, I dare say that the seasons would have lasted another game. It's not just height, it's power and strength which dominate in the second half as the players get tired or worn down. As for Evina, I repeat she averaged 15 and 5 on a lousy team. Can she be a good PG for the Huskies? Yes. Please don't forget that she received some of the POY awards in high school with Meg. As I said, there is the Paige factor. If she is even close to having the readiness of Maya, and is one of your top 5 players, then give her the ball and move Evina to the 2. You are definitely starting both other Juniors so that leaves AG or Anna for the 4. Under that arrangement I think AG starts and Anna first replaces any one of the 3 guards/wings that are on the floor. But really, who knows how any of these players will have improved their skill sets or their bodies come Midnight Madness? All I know is that Geno has choices this year, chess moves to make when he wants to, and we have all seen what he can do even when he doesn't have size or depth. Next season he has both. The season after that he has 3 seniors if EW stays and 2 juniors, experienced sophomores and solid freshmen coming in and if Azzi comes, forget about it.

 

[hoophuskee]

bbif-- I love the discussion. Other years we could be hearing about how each of the freshman looked during the summer along with other players etc. I'll just talk about possibility of Evina at PF.

You're either implying/ suggesting that Walker didn't play well because of other team's size. Absolutely that is a part of it. But she also didn't play well because of her teammates - and most important the guard play had to dominate -- and didn't. Look at the games they were beaten - overall 36 assists to 40 turnovers in the 3 games. The best game was 16 asst vs 15 to.

Now look at the History of UCONN Championships - Jen Rizzotti, Sue Bird, DT, Montgomery, Hartley, and MoJeff. One title was without an A/A caliber guard but we had Maya and Tina. All these others are A/A caliber guards (not necessarily pg). In 12-13 while Hartley wasn't A/A she played terrific at end of season and you still had either KML and Faris (Faris was 2nd team A/A I believe) - whoever you consider to be the 2-guard -- UCONN's title years they had tremendous guards. The last few years they haven't. They had good/ very good guards but not "great guards." So it wasn't just "size" that knocked them off.

So yeah when you talk about size being the difference and "Baylor;" sure Baylor has been successful lately. But it's not because "the game has changed." Baylor has been fortunate UCONN hasn't had their great guards during this stretch. This past year UCONN played Baylor and they had 8 assists vs 10 Turnovers. That's not great guard play. It wasn't just"size" that affected UCONN like this. I love Danger but you look at her FF performances. Also in 16-17 and 17-18 look at Nurse. Both did not play well in FF in contrast to the names above - it's no contest. UCONN runs a fast paced offense. The guards are crucial. Baylor plays differently. UCONN shouldn't "try to be more old school Baylor."

 

[hoophuskee]

This leads me to your point on Geno. IMO Geno is more into offense rather than worry how he is going to defend another team. Not saying he doesn't care about it. But replay the halftime interviews of Geno and Kim (Rebecca quoted what Kim said) from the 11-12 game between UCONN and Baylor. Here you get to hear a clear difference in coaching philosophies between Geno and Kim. Geno at halftime said "I think game is going to be won on the offensive end tonight not on the defense as much." When Kim was asked about Geno's comments and the game overall- she disagreed and said "It's still going to be about defensive stops." And look at 17-18. He started Danger instead of going big with Stevens and try to win with great defense and use his size. Geno started the games "small." The prior year watch how Natalie Butler's minutes went to nearly nothing as the season progressed in their closer games. IMO he is more interested in ball movement vs having a second rebounder. And I'll say again I have no idea if Evina could play PF. But IF she is close to Walker on her defense that might be good enough IF Griff or Edwards are not good offensively. **If she can't be near the defender Walker was and compete for rebounds then I agree - she can't be PF.

As far as Evina "15pts and 5 assists" at Tenn, why can't she be at least 15 and 5 at UCONN as a PF with superior talent surrounding her and then move during the game to other positions? As far as a 2guard-- I think CWill can defend sg's better than Evina while having the capability of being the team's leading scorer.

 

[BBallF]

This leads me to your point on Geno. IMO Geno is more into offense rather than worry how he is going to defend another team. Not saying he doesn't care about it. But replay the halftime interviews of Geno and Kim (Rebecca quoted what Kim said) from the 11-12 game between UCONN and Baylor. Here you get to hear a clear difference in coaching philosophies between Geno and Kim. Geno at halftime said "I think game is going to be won on the offensive end tonight not on the defense as much." When Kim was asked about Geno's comments and the game overall- she disagreed and said "It's still going to be about defensive stops." And look at 17-18. He started Danger instead of going big with Stevens and try to win with great defense and use his size. Geno started the games "small." The prior year watch how Natalie Butler's minutes went to nearly nothing as the season progressed in their closer games. IMO he is more interested in ball movement vs having a second rebounder. And I'll say again I have no idea if Evina could play PF. But IF she is close to Walker on her defense that might be good enough IF Griff or Edwards are not good offensively. **If she can't be near the defender Walker was and compete for rebounds then I agree - she can't be PF.

As far as Evina "15pts and 5 assists" at Tenn, why can't she be at least 15 and 5 at UCONN as a PF with superior talent surrounding her and then move during the game to other positions? As far as a 2guard-- I think CWill can defend sg's better than Evina while having the capability of being the team's leading scorer.

Meg was 5-11 against SC from the field, 3-16 against Oregon and 5-20 against Baylor. That's your AA. Crystal didn't shoot her shots. It was Meg who shot them and she forced many of them. She was never a Big Game player and I still think she got outsized. I agree with you about the guards at UCONN and the score in buckets philosophy but let's look closer. Who dominated in 1995? Rebecca was 6'4'' and Kara was 6'7". Skip to the last 4 titles just for brevity. In 2013, we had Stewie at 6'4" with a reach of a 6'6" player, Dolson at 6'5" and a space eater, Morgan Tuck at 6'2" and Kiah Stokes at 6'3". It was a bruising team. The same inside cast the next year and don't forget KML who was a big swing player. In 2015 you have Tuck again, Stewie, Stokes and in 2016 you have a 6'3" SF in KLS. It's size and power underneath. What happened in our last 3 ? We were undersized. We had Gabby playing center at times. Geno went with what he had but what he went out and got this year and next is size and power to go along with guard and swing offense. Not true about Geno wanting ball movement to the exclusion of prioritizing defense. He himself said that what changed the team this year was a change in defense which was basically a full court press in the front court. We all saw it. Even the AAC tourney announcers said it over and over again. Personally, I thought it was one of his best coaching jobs and coincided, not accidentally, with Jamelle coming aboard. Defense led to offense but we never got to see the new D against the better teams. I am one of the few people anywhere, including the BY, who thought that the second Oregon-UCONN game would have been a toss up. So, back to the crux of the matter. In my view, you don't repeat the mistakes of the last few years by playing someone smaller out of position like EW at the 4. I think CW is the 3 and Liv is the 5. Your first 6 players are definitely Paige, EW, AM, AG and the two above mentioned Juniors with maybe Edwards as 7th and who knows next. Nika is terrific and Mir is a real find. Of the next 4 players after the Juniors, I think it will depend on practice. He will want Paige to have a baptism of fire because she will have the ball in her hands for years to come. BTW, Paige can play the 2 also. She did it on her high school team and a good all around PG can always move to the 2 if size isn't a factor. So, guards are important but Jen Rizzotti doesn't win without Becca and Kara and MoJeff doesn't win without the domination underneath and while Geno does have a "more points we win" perspective he figured something out this year and is not going away from it in the next, not with the depth and speed he has. That is why they are going to be fun to watch and lethal at the same time. Imagine, let's get Piath some time at the end of the game. Here comes a pretty athletic 6'5" kid looking to earn her stripes. Pretty terrifying.

 

[hoophuskee]

I don't agree. How many times have we heard it takes one basket to get a player going? With Walker vs the elite teams she couldn't get going in part because her guards really couldn't get easy baskets for her and others. How many times do we hear to get players in rhythm you need to go "inside-out?" "Inside-out" doesn't only refer to low post play. You need a guard that can penetrate inside and make plays for others. With UCONN they didn't have a guard vs the elite teams that could get easy baskets for the others. We could do this back-and-forht all day. But Walker shot poorly because in part her guards couldn't get her in groove. Which is why you have 8 assist games. The guards were never a threat to doi damage in the lane in halfcourt sets vs the elites. .

As for the defense, I didn't say "Exclusion." I said the following: "IMO Geno is more into offense rather than worry how he is going to defend another team. Not saying he doesn't care about it."
That's not "exclusion."

He wants to see offense which is why the Baylor vs UCONN game in 2011-2012 which Geno and Kim's philosophies completely differ. And starting Danger over Stevens just reinforces that. As for this year-- sure the defense improved. But what has UCONN doen better than anyone else over the last 20 years? Not only titles but getting to the FF. UCONN doesn't allow significantly lesser teams to take them down during the season, and NCAA's you got to be a FF/terrific team. The floor of UCONN in Tourney play is off-the-charts. Last year early on Memphis hung tough. Memphis. Memphis. With Seton Hall a 6pt game after 3 qtrs. In Mid Feb it was a 5 pt game after 3 quarters vs USF. At the end of reg season the floor of UCONN was significantly higher. That's incredibly important. Geno was pumped because his team had established a high enough floor that the much lesser talented teams had little shot to take him down. But for a team like Oregon- he couldn't press in the manner you speak vs them. He would have to win differently. And that would have been by shooting well. Danger had something to prove. CWill have had something to prove. The NCAA offered a new beginning for both. And in the E8 game they would've been underdogs. Beware of the sleeping dog.

As far as your mention of Lobo. That's my point -- they didn't have a Lobo so they shouldn't pretend that they have one by playing big at the PF just to "match up." On the flip side, its not a mistake to optimize your chances of winning by playing your best players rather than forcing yourself to play to another team's strength and style.

 

[hoophuskee]

And when you speak of Stewie and Tuck -- there was a ton of concern regarding their size/strength once Dolson left. I can recall fear on here if Stewie could hang for a season because of "all the banging she would take." Or the fear that Tuck would get swallowed by the opposing bigs. In their jr year leading up to Duke and then SCarolina there was a lot of fear that they would get manhandled because of their size uCONN along with "could Tuck score on the inside and defend well enough against these type of big teams." And we know who Stewie said should have been the FF MVP in 14-15 and that was MoJeff. They don't beat ND without MoJeff. And Rebecca isn't beating Tenn without a great guard in Rizzotti etc. There is just too much fear regarding size. OFC it is important to some extent. There is a reason why UCONN was 36-0 with a 5'11 center and why in that year the team that won played smaller too.

Whether Evina, Anna, CWill and Paige can play together at the same time or not, what I am most thrilled about is potentially watching supreme fastbtreak basketball from a team that potentially can force even the elite teams to adapt to their pace of play. The lethality of great perimeter play that can open up the lane is something I look forward to see how well UCONN can do vs the elite teams. That's the potential strength of this team. Play to your strength if Evina can be near as good defensively as Walker. Unless ofc if Edwards or Griff are really really good.

 

[BBallF]

And when you speak of Stewie and Tuck -- there was a ton of concern regarding their size/strength once Dolson left. I can recall fear on here if Stewie could hang for a season because of "all the banging she would take." Or the fear that Tuck would get swallowed by the opposing bigs. In their jr year leading up to Duke and then SCarolina there was a lot of fear that they would get manhandled because of their size uCONN along with "could Tuck score on the inside and defend well enough against these type of big teams." And we know who Stewie said should have been the FF MVP in 14-15 and that was MoJeff. They don't beat ND without MoJeff. And Rebecca isn't beating Tenn without a great guard in Rizzotti etc. There is just too much fear regarding size. OFC it is important to some extent. There is a reason why UCONN was 36-0 with a 5'11 center and why in that year the team that won played smaller too.

Whether Evina, Anna, CWill and Paige can play together at the same time or not, what I am most thrilled about is potentially watching supreme fastbtreak basketball from a team that potentially can force even the elite teams to adapt to their pace of play. The lethality of great perimeter play that can open up the lane is something I look forward to see how well UCONN can do vs the elite teams. That's the potential strength of this team. Play to your strength if Evina can be near as good defensively as Walker. Unless ofc if Edwards or Griff are really really good.

I think it is totally inaccurate to place a large share of the blame for the three BIG losses at Crystal's feet. She had 16 against Baylor, 19 against Oregon and 25 against SC. If MoJeff was there instead or Rizzotti they still lose those games. Meg just never stepped up like a true UCONN AA like DT, Maya, Lobo, or even Cash Your position is "There is too much fear regarding size. OFC it is important to some extent." Some extent? When the bigs are good, like on the BIG 3 we lost to, it is not important to some extent, it becomes a crucial if not decisive factor. To win the last game of the season, you need size and power. You can't not include Stewie in that because despite her body type she was so good, so long, so smart as a defender that she changed the mold of an inside or post player in women's basketball. The post players who followed her to the NC, from SC first and then 2 years later Baylor were different in body type with more of the weight, girth and almost total inside game but that is because there is and may only ever be one Stewie just like one DT, one Maya and hopefully one Paige. Let's continue this during the season to see what Geno does and whether he leans more to your approach or mine and what is successful. If you see Evina at the 4 I will tip my hat to you. BTW, I was at the Seton Hall game. That game was close for a long time because the Pirate guards had a "lights out" shooting night to match our guard oriented offense. Aubrey turned the game around with her strength, defense and floor game and scored off of steals and put backs. It was more to my point than yours but our debate really goes to the core of women's basketball because it determines recruiting, offenses, defenses, and game adjustments. I just think that this year's recruits and next are showing a return to size and power as well as great guards. I think Geno has the right amount of "fear" about size after the last 3 years and went out and fixed it.

 

[JonathanXIV]

Paragraphs people.

 

[diggerfoot]

To win the last game of the season, you need size and power.

Out of the three championships with Taurasi, one featured a 6'2" center and a 6'2" PF, the other two featured a 6'3" center and 5'11" PF, with a 6'2" post coming off the bench. The two championships with Moore featured a 6'4" center and 6'0" PF, with a large 6'2" and a small 6'0" post coming off the bench. They beat teams (Tennessee, Stanford) with greater size and power.

The ideal line-up has athletic size at every position, but our five "middle" championships reveal there is at least one factor more "crucial" than size.

 

[HopJim]

Out of the three championships with Taurasi, one featured a 6'2" center and a 6'2" PF, the other two featured a 6'3" center and 5'11" PF, with a 6'2" post coming off the bench. The two championships with Moore featured a 6'4" center and 6'0" PF, with a large 6'2" and a small 6'0" post coming off the bench. They beat teams (Tennessee, Stanford) with greater size and power.

The ideal line-up has athletic size at every position, but our five "middle" championships reveal there is at least one factor more "crucial" than size.

Agree with comments but would add one other point regarding "size" that is rarely mentioned. Most championships have seen a point guard who could dominate on defense (ex. MoJeff). Loved Crystal but she faced constant switches where she was caught down low against bigs 6-8"+ taller or outside against taller and stronger shooting guards. We didn't see this as too much of an issue in most games but against Top 5 teams it was exposed.

 

[CL82]

I agree Griggs. Aubrey needs to hit mid-range jumpers and be more in control of her play. Controlled aggression.

As opposed to her normal aggressive control?

Pretty much every kid who comes through the program, particularly the talented ones, makes a big jump in their sophomore year. I’m inclined to believe the same will be true of Aubrey. She’s a smart kid who plays hard every second she’s out on the court.

 

[DEpup]

I have been really enjoying the guard and defense discussion along with easy guard buckets.... I have to say the MoJeff and Nurse back court duo doesn't get enough credit. I know they aren't DT and Bird but who is.... However, if you want to talk lock down defending and getting buckets when needed to give the great UConn bigs of those years room to maneuver, it's hard to come up with a better example of guard play.

 

[BBallF]

Out of the three championships with Taurasi, one featured a 6'2" center and a 6'2" PF, the other two featured a 6'3" center and 5'11" PF, with a 6'2" post coming off the bench. The two championships with Moore featured a 6'4" center and 6'0" PF, with a large 6'2" and a small 6'0" post coming off the bench. They beat teams (Tennessee, Stanford) with greater size and power.

The ideal line-up has athletic size at every position, but our five "middle" championships reveal there is at least one factor more "crucial" than size.

Yes, the factor is called the GOAT and a close second to her. When you are talking about the DT and Maya NC games you are talking about 2 of the greatest women players ever who won because of themselves. The last two DT NC games were won because of DT and what she did to uplift other players ( "We have Diana and they don't") and the Stanford game was Maya taking over an NC championship game probably like never before. We didn't have a DT or Maya type of player since Stewie and that's where the size and power became important because the transcendent player was not around to counteract their influence. BTW, the 2002 team was pretty tough and big underneath with Jessica, Swin, Ashja and Tamika. 3 of them were 6'2" and one was 6'3". The entire starting front line was drafted in the top 10 or so. I rewatched that game recently and they were completely dominating underneath. That team actually proves the point and throw in a very physical sophomore guard by the name of Diana at 6'0". If you watched "The Last Dance", you would remember that even the Jordan title teams had power and size underneath. You have to have a full team on the floor, without a weakness underneath. That's why Geno recruited a full team with each position covered for this year. We haven't had that since the Stewie years. No matter how you slice it, the last 4 teams were smaller and not very physical underneath. The talent got us to the . The lack of size and power ended the rides. Is there any doubt that if we had had an athletic 6'3"- 6'4" power forward who could rebound and defend and score underneath, those teams would have been different? Instead of 4 in a row, we might have been at 7.

 

[hoophuskee]

I think it is totally inaccurate to place a large share of the blame for the three BIG losses at Crystal's feet. She had 16 against Baylor, 19 against Oregon and 25 against SC. If MoJeff was there instead or Rizzotti they still lose those games. Meg just never stepped up like a true UCONN AA like DT, Maya, Lobo, or even Cash Your position is "There is too much fear regarding size. OFC it is important to some extent." Some extent? When the bigs are good, like on the BIG 3 we lost to, it is not important to some extent, it becomes a crucial if not decisive factor. To win the last game of the season, you need size and power. You can't not include Stewie in that because despite her body type she was so good, so long, so smart as a defender that she changed the mold of an inside or post player in women's basketball. The post players who followed her to the NC, from SC first and then 2 years later Baylor were different in body type with more of the weight, girth and almost total inside game but that is because there is and may only ever be one Stewie just like one DT, one Maya and hopefully one Paige. Let's continue this during the season to see what Geno does and whether he leans more to your approach or mine and what is successful. If you see Evina at the 4 I will tip my hat to you. BTW, I was at the Seton Hall game. That game was close for a long time because the Pirate guards had a "lights out" shooting night to match our guard oriented offense. Aubrey turned the game around with her strength, defense and floor game and scored off of steals and put backs. It was more to my point than yours but our debate really goes to the core of women's basketball because it determines recruiting, offenses, defenses, and game adjustments. I just think that this year's recruits and next are showing a return to size and power as well as great guards. I think Geno has the right amount of "fear" about size after the last 3 years and went out and fixed it.

*****First off I'd like to ask you a series of questions that all relate to what I'm talking about with Evina: Assume for example Evina (and Paige and Anna) are much better players than Edwards or Griff. "What do you do when your team doesn't have the necessary prerequisite of size and power? Do you still throw the bigger player out there anyways while the much better player sits? My point is UCONN had one chance to win it all last year and that was playing small with Walker at the PF. And to win it means the perimeter had to be terrific - and to have a chance win it all you have to ensure you beat the lesser teams. In 99-00 for example the team won OVERALL by its strength on the perimeter while the front court just had to hold its own vs the elite. When you play small it means your best are perimeter players-- therefore the perimeter has to "significantly win" vs the opposing team’s perimeter. For example you quote Danger's "pts scored" but you disregard her lack of assists and her defense. Cooper got 27. Harris had 19 with 11 assists along with no turnovers. Danger’s lack of assists along with her not so hot defense is not good enough also. Sure she performed better than Walker. But not good enough. It’s not about “blame.”

Now look at 94-95 - Rebecca's team seeing how you referenced her OFC she is far superior as PF vs Walker. But compare others from her team to this past year's team as well. I would take every one of the top 5 players from 95 position vs position vs this past year’s team. The point is -- the chance that UCONN was winning a title was very slim last year. UCONN would have had to get through those 3 teams. So the idea should be "Win what you can," while diminishing the possibility you get picked off by lesser teams before the Final Four. So how would you build that team if Walker wasn't the PF? You'd start the frosh Griff and think that would be enough? When you don't have the horses to play big- you leave yourself susceptible of getting picked off easier rather than go with the superior talent. If you try to start to coach/manage too much by position rather than talent, most times that is not going to end well.

As far my mentioning Evina - I've offered her as a PF as another possibility. It seems you've have turned this into completely "my philosophy against yours." But read back into my "long novel" replies. I said I'm okay going with Aubrey or Edwards if they are good enough on offense. This is assuming their defense is fine. ****But to start our discussion you asked me "Why go with Evina?" That relates to my 1st questions above. If Griff and Edwards are good - I'm fine with them starting. If Evina is quite a bit worse at defending inside than Walker then I'm fine with her not playing PF. All I did was offer an alternative. I have said I haven't seen Evina enough to know what she is. And I haven't seen Edwards enough to know how good she is. I do believe however that Evina has a ceiling this year to become a 1st team A/A. Paige has a ceiling to become an A/A and so does CWill. But if Edwards or Griff is good then that's fine too. This size can offset the offense. - As long as they are pretty good ofc.