Espn promoting Power 5

[Santini35]

Upstater is irrationally defensive about Penn State. About 20% of the regular posters jump to ND's defense if anyone says anything remotely negative. And then there is Z, who defends ESPN's relentless and meanspirited trashing of the Big East and UConn. I can get being a long time fan of another school and having trouble giving that up when it comes to UConn, but who roots for a corporation against a school?

It's because he works there

 

[emshorts]

Because the idea of ESPN in the conspiracy against the Big East isn't logical. You know why they bash Big East football? Because it stinks. Compared to the rest of the major conferences, it's garbage. Let's see, the current crop of schools includes one Heisman, won in 1989, no national championships, a bunch of commuter schools, the unquestioned worst program in America, the longtime unquestioned worst program in America, and three schools who didn't even play FBS football 15 years ago. Three of the programs in the conference (Temple, Memphis, San Diego State) have strongly considered DROPPING FOOTBALL ENTIRELY in the last 15 years due to turgid results on the field and a complete lack of any fan interest whatsoever.

And ESPN's the problem for not treating it on the same level as the other five? Really? Jesus, get OVER yourself.

Talk to fans from around the country. Of other schools. From other conferences. They all think the Big East is a joke. Do you think this is some grand conspiracy?

When everyone else is telling you you're wrong, the problem isn't them. Get a hint.

they didn't just start calling us the BIG LEAST yesterday or bcuz the current schools just joined. it's been going on for yrs even when we had teams ranked in the top 20.

 

[businesslawyer]

ZLS, all the BCS computer rankings would disagree w/ your argument that this league stinks. Perception wise and historically, you're correct, but based on actual results and how teams performed, you're wrong. Just like after the inital raid in '04, the teams coming into the league are on par or better than the teams leaving (in actual performance). Boise and WVU are a wash (and dont give me that if Peterson left Boise will fall apart. Same thing was said about Hawkins leaving BSU), SMU, Houston, UCF, Temple, and Navy are all better than - or at least on par with - SyraPitt. Memphis is the only dog joining the league.

Unfortunately for the BE (and UConn as long as it remains in the BE) perception is the rule. I want us outta the BE too, but the actual on the field product is not going to be the flea ridden dog ESPiN is making it out to be.

I think people are missing a key part of this. On the initial moves, I made that argument repeatedly. And still believe it. But what we had going for us was the bottom of our conference being stronger than the bottom of the other big conferences. The addition of Memphis and Temple changed the equation in terms of computer rankings (even before you get to market share and prestige and history).

 

[RS9999X]

ESPN is an advocate for those conferences with which it has television contracts.

Most people's problem with ESPN is that is worked with other leagues to destroy the Big East and then had it's "news" anchors say the remaining teams suck because of the departures that ESPN financed. .

It's to ESPN's benefit to pimp its own programming. The questions are whether ESPN was miffed because the BE didn't take their first offer and whether ESPN will bid for the BE. Given the current promotion and the number 5, I'd say the answer is they will not offer a decent bid and the BE needs NBC to step in. Of course that's part of the psychology. Disparage the BE verbally before the negotiations in 2 months.

One thing is certain: ESPN isn't afraid to make enemies in CT. The good news: A great inaugral season by Houston or Boise could happen and really force the issue with 7 true at-large slots. The bad news again: it seems the old bowl system is in play: Attendance, Attendance and Attendance and Ratings!

 

[pj]

I think people are missing a key part of this. On the initial moves, I made that argument repeatedly. And still believe it. But what we had going for us was the bottom of our conference being stronger than the bottom of the other big conferences. The addition of Memphis and Temple changed the equation in terms of computer rankings (even before you get to market share and prestige and history).

It works both ways. Parity in the conference due to a strong bottom meant the champions had relatively poor records, and since many fans only pay attention to the bowl teams, our bowl teams looked worse than other conferences. The top teams in the Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12, and ACC really benefit in terms of prestige by having a big group of weak teams to run up their records against.

In any case computer rankings are being replaced by a selection committee, so even if the lack of weak teams in the old conference was beneficial in the past, it may not be so in the future.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think people are missing a key part of this. On the initial moves, I made that argument repeatedly. And still believe it. But what we had going for us was the bottom of our conference being stronger than the bottom of the other big conferences. The addition of Memphis and Temple changed the equation in terms of computer rankings (even before you get to market share and prestige and history).

Agreed. The strength of the Big East was never at the top, it was balance. Now we have flea ridden dogs that are worse than the worst team in most leagues, plus we have very little up top, gaining Boise and losing WVU. Zls is right, there are several programs even in the ACC, FSU/GT/Clemson/UNC/VT/BC that have more to offer than any in the NBE. Yes BC stinks right now, UNC is being punished and Miami can't get it's %$#@ together. But NC State is actually looking pretty good and should be ranked this year. So even with two of its most successful programs (Miami and BC) in the toilet, the ACC still looks better than the BE in 2012.

 

[businesslawyer]

Agreed. The strength of the Big East was never at the top, it was balance. Now we have flea ridden dogs that are worse than the worst team in most leagues, plus we have very little up top, gaining Boise and losing WVU. Zls is right, there are several programs even in the ACC, FSU/GT/Clemson/UNC/VT/BC that have more to offer than any in the NBE. Yes BC stinks right now, UNC is being punished and Miami can't get it's %$#@ together. But NC State is actually looking pretty good and should be ranked this year. So even with two of its most successful programs (Miami and BC) in the toilet, the ACC still looks better than the BE in 2012.

Why is it that every time you agree with something I post, I feel dirty?

 

[businesslawyer]

It works both ways. Parity in the conference due to a strong bottom meant the champions had relatively poor records, and since many fans only pay attention to the bowl teams, our bowl teams looked worse than other conferences. The top teams in the Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12, and ACC really benefit in terms of prestige by having a big group of weak teams to run up their records against.

In any case computer rankings are being replaced by a selection committee, so even if the lack of weak teams in the old conference was beneficial in the past, it may not be so in the future.

There is a lot of reality in what you said, and I freely admit to being a "truth" guy as opposed to a "perception" guy. That having been said, you will never convince me that the Big East is stronger in football because it added Memphis. Saying that just turns the use of common words on their head.

 

[businesslawyer]

[quote="RS9999X, post: 278427, member: 502"

One thing is certain: ESPN isn't afraid to make enemies in CT.[/quote]

Which would be o.k. if they hadn't inked a huge development deal with the State literally days before the ACC raid. One of the secrets of this whole thing that I'd still like to know is whether Malloy called ESPN on day one and what the heck the conversation sounded like.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Let's do a quick test here.

Games vs. major conference opponents: 2002-2004:

Louisville: Kentucky 17-22 (2002), Duke 40-3 (2002), Florida State 26-20 (2002), Kentucky 40-24 (2003), Syracuse 30-20 (2003), Temple 21-12 (2003), Kentucky 28-0 (2004), UNC 34-0 (2004), Miami 38-41 (2004) 7-2, although only two quality wins in the whole group, over FSU and Syracuse, and both of them lost 6 games the year Louisville beat them. Kentucky didn't suck in 2002 either.

Cincinnati: WVU 32-35 (2002), Ohio State 19-23 (2002), Temple 35-22 (2002), WVU 15-13 (2003), Temple 30-24 (2003), Ohio State 6-27 (2004), Syracuse 7-19 (2004) 3-4 with one quality win over WVU.

South Florida: Arkansas 3-42 (2002), Oklahoma 14-31 (2002), Alabama 17-40 (2003), South Carolina 3-34 (2004), Pitt 14-23 (2004). 0-5.

Overall, 10-11 with 4 quality wins and 6 wins over Temple, Duke and bad UNC and Kentucky teams.

Games vs. majors: 2009-2011:

Boise: Oregon 19-8 (2009), TCU 17-10 (2009), Virginia Tech 33-30 (2010), Oregon State 37-24 (2010), Utah 26-3 (2010), Georgia 35-21 (2011), TCU 35-36 (2011), Arizona State 56-24 (2011). 7-1, with every win on this list better than any win by the 3 additions from 2005.

San Diego State: UCLA 14-33 (2009), TCU 12-55 (2009), Utah 7-38 (2009), Missouri 24-27 (2010), TCU 35-40 (2010), Utah 34-38 (2010), Washington State 42-24 (2011), Michigan 7-28 (2011), TCU 14-27 (2011). 1-8, with most of them blowout losses until 2010.

Houston: Oklahoma State 45-35 (2009), Texas Tech 29-28 (2009), Mississippi State 31-24 (2009), UCLA 13-31 (2010), Mississippi State 24-47 (2010), Texas Tech 20-35 (2010), UCLA 38-34 (2011), Penn State 30-14 (2011). 5-3, with 3 very high quality wins.

SMU: Washington State 27-30 (2009), TCU 14-39 (2009), Texas Tech 27-35 (2010), TCU 24-41 (2009), Washington State 35-21 (2010), Texas A&M 14-46 (2011), TCU 40-33 (2011), Pitt 28-6 (2011). 3-5 with a great win over TCU.

Central Florida: Miami 7-27 (2009), Rutgers 24-45 (2009), NC State 21-28 (2010), Kansas State 13-17 (2010), Georgia 10-6 (2010), Boston College 30-3 (2011). 2-4, with a good win over Georgia.

Temple: Penn State 6-31 (2009), UCLA 21-30 (2009), UConn 30-16 (2010), Penn State 13-22 (2010), Penn State 10-14 (2011), Maryland 38-7 (2011). 2-4, with win over UConn counting as quality. Really just proved they could beat Edsall.

Memphis: Mississippi 14-45 (2009), Mississippi State 7-49 (2009), Tennessee 28-56 (2009), Louisville 0-56 (2010), Tennessee 14-50 (2010), Mississippi State 14-59 (2011). 0-6 with all blowout losses.

20-31 with 13 of the losses coming from Memphis and SDSU. SDSU has shown they can play with the big boys, they just need to pull out some W's. Temple has played Penn State tough 2 straight years, and is pulling out W's. UCF and SMU are equivalent to middle to bottom half BCS programs. Houston is a top half BCS program and Boise is a powerhouse. Memphis is terrible, and one of the worst teams in FBS.

 

[SAMCRO]

Just for S&G's I looked at the final 2012 cumulative computer rankings for all the teams, placing them in their new (or soon to be new) leagues. So this has Memphis, Navy, SDSU, etc... in the BE, WVU and TCU in the B12, TAM and Mizzou in the SEC and SyraPitt in the ACC. Averaging out all of the rankings for each conference from 2012 season, anyone care to guess who finishes in the Big 5? Any guesses on who is not in the Big 5? Anyone, anyone???

#1 B12 (avarage ranking of 30.4)
#2 SEC (average ranking of 33.5)
#3 B1G (average ranking of 48)
#4 P12 (average ranking of 50.5)
#5 BE (average ranking of 56)
#6 ACC (average ranking of 59.1)

The average ranking of 2 teams leaving the BE to join the ACC (SyraPitt) was 73. The average ranking of the 7 teams joining the BE was 58.5.

Doesn't change the fact that the perception of the BE is a dog, but even factoring Memphis (ranked 117) into the BE, the league still averages a higher ranking than the ACC. Does it matter in TV contracts, media attention, etc... no, absolutely not, but the league did get better on the field, you just won't hear anyone talking about it on TV. Our interim commissioner should have been prepared to slam ESPiN or anyone else he spoke to with these FACTS. He did not.

 

[UConnDan97]

Just for S&G's I looked at the final 2012 cumulative computer rankings for all the teams, placing them in their new (or soon to be new) leagues. So this has Memphis, Navy, SDSU, etc... in the BE, WVU and TCU in the B12, TAM and Mizzou in the SEC and SyraPitt in the ACC. Averaging out all of the rankings for each conference from 2012 season, anyone care to guess who finishes in the Big 5? Any guesses on who is not in the Big 5? Anyone, anyone???

#1 B12 (avarage ranking of 30.4)
#2 SEC (average ranking of 33.5)
#3 B1G (average ranking of 48)
#4 P12 (average ranking of 50.5)
#5 BE (average ranking of 56)
#6 ACC (average ranking of 59.1)

The average ranking of 2 teams leaving the BE to join the ACC (SyraPitt) was 73. The average ranking of the 7 teams joining the BE was 58.5.

Doesn't change the fact that the perception of the BE is a dog, but even factoring Memphis (ranked 117) into the BE, the league still averages a higher ranking than the ACC. Does it matter in TV contracts, media attention, etc... no, absolutely not, but the league did get better on the field, you just won't hear anyone talking about it on TV. Our interim commissioner should have been prepared to slam ESPiN or anyone else he spoke to with these FACTS. He did not.

That's a solid post, Samcro!

 

[Marty Jackson]

I think people are missing a key part of this. On the initial moves, I made that argument repeatedly. And still believe it. But what we had going for us was the bottom of our conference being stronger than the bottom of the other big conferences. The addition of Memphis and Temple changed the equation in terms of computer rankings (even before you get to market share and prestige and history).

Memphis (not sure about temple) will provide some additional seperation in our league. When people think of the SEC, they aren't thinking about Vandy or Miss St. Northwestern in the Big10 as well. Sure they compete some years, but for the most part, they are fodder for the other league teams. We now have Memphis.
What's killed this league the past couple years is that we've had 9 teams and our champion has typically been bunched up in the standings with #2 and #3. The added teams will provide some seperation just because of the added conference games. But adding Memphis (and Temple if you like, even though we can't seem to beat them consistently), we now have a 'cellar' program.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Just for S&G's I looked at the final 2012 cumulative computer rankings for all the teams, placing them in their new (or soon to be new) leagues. So this has Memphis, Navy, SDSU, etc... in the BE, WVU and TCU in the B12, TAM and Mizzou in the SEC and SyraPitt in the ACC. Averaging out all of the rankings for each conference from 2012 season, anyone care to guess who finishes in the Big 5? Any guesses on who is not in the Big 5? Anyone, anyone???

#1 B12 (avarage ranking of 30.4)
#2 SEC (average ranking of 33.5)
#3 B1G (average ranking of 48)
#4 P12 (average ranking of 50.5)
#5 BE (average ranking of 56)
#6 ACC (average ranking of 59.1)

The average ranking of 2 teams leaving the BE to join the ACC (SyraPitt) was 73. The average ranking of the 7 teams joining the BE was 58.5.

Doesn't change the fact that the perception of the BE is a dog, but even factoring Memphis (ranked 117) into the BE, the league still averages a higher ranking than the ACC. Does it matter in TV contracts, media attention, etc... no, absolutely not, but the league did get better on the field, you just won't hear anyone talking about it on TV. Our interim commissioner should have been prepared to slam ESPiN or anyone else he spoke to with these FACTS. He did not.

I couldn't find the site (I'm sure there's more than one), but looking back since 2003, the BE has finished as high as #3 and finished higher than the ACC several times. I think we're the 6th conference, but suggesting "5 Power" conferences is an agenda...

Bill King has referenced the "5 Power" conferences now as well.

 

[Pudge]

Look at the five conferences. Then look at the Big East.

If you think the Big East is on the same level with the other five, you are out of your mind. Yes, Boise is a great program. But if/when Petersen leaves, then what? For all the failures of the ACC, FSU/Clemson/UNC/Miami are all still major programs, recruiting major players, with large fanbases and national appeal. You can whine and moan and bring up OOC records and BCS game records, but the truth is, nobody gives a about Cincinnati-Rutgers.

I think ZLS ... cannot imagine that IT might be fun playing the AFL ... to the NFL. He can't remember how exciting it is to be the upstart. The Boise upsetting the SEC/B12 apple cart.

That's got to be your perspective here. WE are trying to break down the door ... ESPN was also once the upstart. I remember that distinctly. You got to play your role.

 

[Pudge]

I agree on Memphis.

But ... what you have to remember ... in 2003, Cincinnati was a horrible mess. Dantonio was just into his turnaround there; and they were damn good the next year. Give Fuentes & that Program the benefit of hope.

It is amazing to me how much better all the BE Programs got between 2003-2012. Except Syracuse. And Pitt.

 

[Excalibur]

I'm sorry but that is a stupid comment. Look at Alabama without Saban. Take Urban Meyer away from Florida and look what's happened. Miami hasn't been relevant since Johnson left.
For 10 years, Boise has been one of the winningest programs, and whenever they've been given the shot to play with the 'big boys' they've competed very well. Peterson has had tons of offers and he doesn't appear to be moving.
Alabama sucked before Saban and quite frankly, the country didn't seem to care. Miami sucks, and could be headed for the death penalty. Yet we still manage to get by. Texas has been out of the debate for a couple seasons and they've been pushed to the back-burner.
People want to watch good matchups. And if a good Boise team ranked #2 is playing a top ranked LSU, people are going to watch. I also bet a top 10 ranked Cincy playing a top 10 ranked RU will get some national attention as well.

You guys don't seem to get the importance of public perception. People will still care about Alabama if they aren't coached by Saban anymore. They were on the cover of SI in 2005 when they went 9-3 against a schedule with a god awful head coach. Why? Because they matter. If Boise or UCF goes 9-3, nobody is going to pay attention.

 

[Dann]

You guys don't seem to get the importance of public perception. People will still care about Alabama if they aren't coached by Saban anymore. They were on the cover of SI in 2005 when they went 9-3 against a ****ty schedule with a god awful head coach. Why? Because they matter. If Boise or UCF goes 9-3, nobody is going to pay attention.

u are selling dan tosh short. he will rock ucf to the college kids like no other.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

You guys don't seem to get the importance of public perception. People will still care about Alabama if they aren't coached by Saban anymore. They were on the cover of SI in 2005 when they went 9-3 against a ****ty schedule with a god awful head coach. Why? Because they matter. If Boise or UCF goes 9-3, nobody is going to pay attention.

UCF is starting to beat out bunch of traditional schools for recruiting now that they are in the BE. Look at some schools that offered to kids that committed to UCF so far.

3* Benjamin 3* Dinovo, 3* Reed, 3* Willis, 3* Hernly, 3* Holman, 3* Lowry, 3* Keller, 3* Killings, NR Berman, NR Evans​

Offers​

1 Alabama​

1 Arizona St​

1 Auburn​

1 Ball St​

1 Boston College​

3 Cincinnati​

2 Florida​

2 Florida St​

5 FIU​

1 Georgia​

1 Indiana​

1 Iowa St​

1 Kansas​

4 Kentucky​

1 La Lafayette ​

2 Louisville​

1 LSU​

2 Marshal​

1 Miami (FL)​

1 Michigan St.​

2 Minnesota​

2 Miss​

1 Miss St​

1 Missouri​

1 North Carolina​

2 NC St​

1 Notre Dame​

1 Ohio State​

1 Oklahoma​

1 Pitt​

1 Purdue​

1 Rutgers​

1 South Alabama​

1 South Carolina​

4 South Florida​

1 Tennessee​

1 UCLA​

1 USC​

1 UMass​

3 Vanderbilt​

2 Wake Forest​

1 Western Kentucky​

2 West Virginia​

1 Wisconsin​

3 FCS​

 

[pj]

It's going to be a tough conference! A lot of hungry programs, many in good recruiting territories.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Brett McMurphy actually wrote something based on facts and figures today. He works for CBS though, not ESPN.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19380435

 

[Carl Spackler]

Brett McMurphy actually wrote something based on facts and figures today. He works for CBS though, not ESPN.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19380435

Sorry to be 'that guy', but the article you linked is dated June 19.

 

[B1GEast]

What has happend to the state of college sports, not just football due to all of this re-alignment has damaged college sports as a whole, rivalries forever gone, conferences scrambling to find any available replacement, and worst of all these horrible geographical foot prints just plain sucks.

It's now just the big 4 and the ACC not too far behind, this is college sports for now and the foreseeable future.

 

[pj]

What has happend to the state of college sports, not just football due to all of this re-alignment has damaged college sports as a whole, rivalries forever gone, conferences scrambling to find any available replacement, and worst of all these horrible geographical foot prints just plain sucks.

It's now just the big 4 and the ACC not too far behind, this is college sports for now and the foreseeable future.

Agree with the first part ... not so sure about the latter.

The "big 5", if that's what they are, leave too many important markets unserved. The Big East has a bunch of hungry programs. I think much like realignment has increased competition for UConn in the northeast (Temple, UMass, increased ACC presence), it's also increasing competition for the big conferences. Houston, SMU, TCU will poach in Texas; USF and UCF in Florida; Boise and SDSU out west. Meanwhile as budget stress increases the major conference teams will be tempted to rest on their laurels, and draw upon football money to fund other parts of the athletic programs and the university as a whole.

Technology, too, will change TV/media distribution and enable upstarts to find their markets. The Big Ten is going around the distribution channels with the Big Ten Network; others can do the same.

This will take some time to play out, but I don't think the equilibrium is going to be a small group of haves and a large group of have-nots.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

There is an online petition to boycott ESPN for its BE smear campaign starting today. UCONN fans should do our part and pass the link around:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/boycott-espn-for-its-smear-campaign-against-the/

Maybe this will finally wake up the BE office to do something.