Enoch

[mauconnfan]

@mauconnfan you and I both know not to throw that pass to Amida, how come Gibbs doesn't?

Amida gambled on the weak side block a few times too many but he's WAY down the dog house list in this game and was a net positive. He also drew 2 whistles on the offensive and defensive glass which kept the ball in our possession, so defacto rebounds.

Brimah's decision making and positioning have been much better the last couple of games. He's going straight up and roofing with two hands instead of swinging down on his blocks. He's in the right place under the hoop and sealing well on the boards. His hands are what they are.

He was net positive in your eyes, he was okay in mine - for him. And if that's how we judge a guy no wonder we are on the bubble. And if we can't throw that pass to him then why is he out there?

 

[Huskyforlife]

I'll never understand why Enoch didn't get more burn when Brimah was out. It was a real chance to see what he have right now in him, yet Nolan, and Facey played the majority of time at Center. Now we're 29 games in, we've decided Nolan can't play, and Enoch is the more capable backup Center. Just like the offense running smoother with Adams running the point, why didn't Ollie see what we saw in Enoch before us? Such a strange year. We have to win on Thursday, no excuses.

 

[Stainmaster]

I'll never understand why Enoch didn't get more burn when Brimah was out. It was a real chance to see what he have right now in him, yet Nolan, and Facey played the majority of time at Center. Now we're 29 games in, we've decided Nolan can't play, and Enoch is the more capable backup Center. Just like the offense running smoother with Adams running the point, why didn't Ollie see what we saw in Enoch before us? Such a strange year. We have to win on Thursday, no excuses.

Our players (especially the freshmen) aren't static. Jalen is capable of running the point now, but it's definitely arguable that he wasn't at that level earlier in the season. Same with Enoch - he wasn't where he needed to be to get minutes right off the bat, he's been working and improving all season long and now he's moved into the rotation.

 

[OkaForPrez]

@mauconnfan because of the 99 other ways he changes the game for the better. Brimah played his B/B+ game yesterday. If we got that out of the entire starting lineup we don't lose. He was far more part of the solution than the problem, even with a few erroneous gambles and a missed hedge. He's not responsible for the buckets in transition, the guys who couldn't make shots, turned the ball over and didn't stop the ball are to blame for those.

 

[mauconnfan]

@mauconnfan because of the 99 other ways he changes the game for the better. Brimah played his B/B+ game yesterday. If we got that out of the entire starting lineup we don't lose. He was far more part of the solution than the problem, even with a few erroneous gambles and a missed hedge. He's not responsible for the buckets in transition, the guys who couldn't make shots, turned the ball over and didn't stop the ball are to blame for those.

Please 90 ways? You are a dreamer i will give you that.

he is better now in some ways than he was prior to the injury I can see that. But he has the same knowledge of the game I'm afraid and what you elect to see vs what you elect look away from is fine. I happen to view him and others (I'm tougher on DHam now this isn't on AB at all) for things away from the ball which they choose not to do or understand which makes it a team. He is what he is, part of the problem.

 

[Henry]

S

Selective watching. It can be cured

[/QUOTE]
Does Brimah look any better to you than his Freshman year? He gets pushed around under the boards. Unless a pass is a set up for a dunk he has trouble catching the ball. And his footwork is terrible which is surprising because I feel that he is a pretty good athlete.

 

[Matrim55]

Does Brimah look any better to you than his Freshman year? He gets pushed around under the boards. Unless a pass is a set up for a dunk he has trouble catching the ball. And his footwork is terrible which is surprising because I feel that he is a pretty good athlete.

His total rebound rate is up about 20% over his freshman year, and his turnover % is down about 10%. He's also increased his win shares by more than 33%.

Amida's a very imperfect basketball player, but the suggestions that he hasn't made tangible improvement are pure fiction.

 

[mauconnfan]

His total rebound rate is up about 20% over his freshman year, and his turnover % is down about 10%. He's also increased his win shares by more than 33%.

Amida's a very imperfect basketball player, but the suggestions that he hasn't made tangible improvement are pure fiction.

He's made strides in rebounding but it has been really noticeable as of late, early in the season not so much. He's worked harder to get rebounds and his last 3 games 2 have shown that the other not as much. As far as understanding the game, which is how he doesn't look like he's improved that much, he's made very small strides. 3 years in and the guy can't get a jump hook off and when he does it doesn't get to the rim, that's horrid. His assists to TO's are actually 89 TO's to 81 assists in his career, you stat guys need to explain to me how that correlates to all this positive "win" "increase" crap. What it tells me is he can't pass and we can't throw the ball to him if we want to make a play, unless it's a lob. Somewhere between your "tangible" improvement and henry's "no" improvement is our guy, and that's not good enough for a major college program like UConn.

But he is the best option we have for sure, Enoch should get some time though.

 

[Matrim55]

As far as understanding the game, which is how he doesn't look like he's improved that much, he's made very small strides.

Naw.

His assists to TO's are actually 89 TO's to 81 assists in his career

Using his entire career's worth of stats and lumping them together is not how one attempts to prove a trend over.

you stat guys need to explain to me how that correlates to all this positive "win" "increase" crap. What it tells me is he can't pass and we can't throw the ball to him if we want to make a play, unless it's a lob.

He turned it over on 18% of possessions he used as a freshman. As a junior that's down to 15%. For reference, Hasheem was 17.7% as a sophomore and 15.2% as a junior.

I agree that he's not a good passer, but he's clearly become more secure with the ball. That is a valuable improvement curve in and of itself.

Here's an explanation of how win shares are calculated: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html

 

[mauconnfan]

Naw.


Using his entire career's worth of stats and lumping them together is not how one attempts to prove a trend over.


He turned it over on 18% of possessions he used as a freshman. As a junior that's down to 15%. For reference, Hasheem was 17.7% as a sophomore and 15.2% as a junior.

I agree that he's not a good passer, but he's clearly become more secure with the ball. That is a valuable improvement curve in and of itself.

Here's an explanation of how win shares are calculated: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html

You want trend okay here it is - he has 3 assists and 17 TO's this year in less games than any other year - freshman 11 and 28 TO's and Soph 7 and 36 - there is no trend here other than a very bad idea to even put the ball in this guys hands. Not sure what else you want?

 

[Silk31]

Wait so we are judging AB on his assist to TO ratio now???...when is this argument made for front court players

I'm middle of the road with Brimah but I don't get how this proves anything one way or another when discussing a defensive minded 7 foot Center

 

[mauconnfan]

Wait so we are judging AB on his assist to TO ratio now???...when is this argument made for front court players

I'm middle of the road with Brimah but I don't get how this proves anything one way or another when discussing a defensive minded 7 foot Center

No I am saying how can you think a guy is helping you on O when you can't throw it into him unless it's a lob - he can't pass, he can't catch (people are saying Gibbs shouldn't have thrown him that pass for the easy dunk he didn't catch late game remember, imagine saying that?), he can't get a shot off from the low block, he can't set a pick and roll for the ball ever. You can tell me all you want about how he keeps his guy on the baseline because of the lob and that's all great but we don't make lay ups or mid range shots anyway, and we don't get the ball to Miller enough. If he could pass we could play high-low like many others do with their bigs but he's not a threat on O nor can he pass. The mere thought of saying "Gibbs shouldn't have thrown it to him for a dunk" is all you need to know.

Hey this isn't a dig on AB he's our best option and has been playing better mostly. He makes FT's great, lobs great. But like everyone else where is the big play at the end of the game - the rebound and put back,, the rebound on the defensive end to stop a run, it's not there? If anyone says St Joes I will have Fishy punch them in the throat! But if you were there watching the other day his 10-7-2 was ok just like the other guys, it wasn't positive. He missed hedges, offensive rebounds, went for blocks he missed leaving his weak side wide open for put backs (a great shot blocker knows when and when not but our fans just think "great he altered the shot )and didn't get back on transition for a huge hoop. He was no different than DHam whom we found a way to hammer even with 20 points. They gave up as many as they got, the whole team did an awful showing by everyone.

 

[Silk31]

Would love to pull up Thabeet's assist to turnover ration for comparison's sake but then I realized that it's a pretty silly stat to pull for college shot blockers.

Thabeet had just as bad hands and was even more lumbering. He wasn't as easily pushed around as Brimah is but their offensive skill set was basically lobs and easy putbacks.

And if Brimah's only contribution is his 3 point play vs St. Joe's then...ahhh crap here comes the @mauconnfan ordered Fishy throat punch

 

[sdhusky]

Wait so we are judging AB on his assist to TO ratio now???...when is this argument made for front court players

I'm middle of the road with Brimah but I don't get how this proves anything one way or another when discussing a defensive minded 7 foot Center

Another thing - he never dribbles between his legs or throw passes behind his back.

Just blocks shots, alters shots, dunks, creates spacing and rebounds.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I trust him more than Brimah at this point. Brimah never seems to get a rebound or catch a pass. Enoch has good hands and is tough. I'd like to see more of him.

Brimah (12.6%) and Enoch (12.8%) have nearly identical rebounding rates. Good rule of thumb: if you need to use the word "seems" when criticizing a guy, maybe go ahead and look it up.

 

[bmayuc]

Brimah (12.6%) and Enoch (12.8%) have nearly identical rebounding rates. Good rule of thumb: if you need to use the word "seems" when criticizing a guy, maybe go ahead and look it up.

I've made this argument before, but watch the game. Brimah gets shoved under the basket, leading to a scrum and a ton of offensive rebounds given up. SE may(in a very small sample size) have about the same rebounding rate, but he has the ability to box out that is far, far superior to Brimah, meaning we have a nice pocket from which to rebound on D.

There is no way to quantify this, except perhaps team rebound % when he's on the floor compared to brimah(if this is even a stat), but watch next time SE is in. Its a HUGE difference.

 

[mauconnfan]

Would love to pull up Thabeet's assist to turnover ration for comparison's sake but then I realized that it's a pretty silly stat to pull for college shot blockers.

Thabeet had just as bad hands and was even more lumbering. He wasn't as easily pushed around as Brimah is but their offensive skill set was basically lobs and easy putbacks.

And if Brimah's only contribution is his 3 point play vs St. Joe's then...ahhh crap here comes the @mauconnfan ordered Fishy throat punch

But Thabeet was actually a threat on O wasn't he? And lets not discuss the other end because it's not close - please - he did scare people form shooting, whole different animal. He set a pick, he rolled, he made jump hooks, you could throw it to him without cringing on a TO. Not even close. And not asking him to be, but all good teams have a big you can at least run offense through at times, we don't. We did with Travis, Jake on and on. He's our best option, period. Nothing bad, nothing good just is what it is. 3 years and jump hooks hit air.

Another thing - he never dribbles between his legs or throw passes behind his back.

Just blocks shots, alters shots, dunks, creates spacing and rebounds.

Creates spacing? Laughable. Rebounds - getting better last 2 of 3 impressive I admit that, before that not so much unless you're happy with your 7 footer getting 5 a game? Blocks shots? yeah he had 2 the other day in 30 minutes but there were lay ups too if I do remember so we're not talking the Human Eraser. Hedges? Oh you forgot that, he's awful.

God people, he's ok but you want to make him more than what he is - a somewhat improved 7 footer who can block shots and dunk a lob but can't catch or get a jump hook to the basket. He's ours, he is what he is end of story.

 

[Jerry1714]

Naw.


Using his entire career's worth of stats and lumping them together is not how one attempts to prove a trend over.


He turned it over on 18% of possessions he used as a freshman. As a junior that's down to 15%. For reference, Hasheem was 17.7% as a sophomore and 15.2% as a junior.

I agree that he's not a good passer, but he's clearly become more secure with the ball. That is a valuable improvement curve in and of itself.

Here's an explanation of how win shares are calculated: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/about/ws.html

If AB starting put up Wilt Chamberlin numbers @mauconnfan would still tell you he sucks and Nolan is just as good because he took a charge against Gtown. You are wasting your time defending him.

 

[sdhusky]

Creates spacing? Laughable.

Check out Hamilton's numbers with and without Brimah in the line up and come back and see me. Get some facts and come back and see me.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I've made this argument before, but watch the game. Brimah gets shoved under the basket, leading to a scrum and a ton of offensive rebounds given up. SE may(in a very small sample size) have about the same rebounding rate, but he has the ability to box out that is far, far superior to Brimah, meaning we have a nice pocket from which to rebound on D.

There is no way to quantify this, except perhaps team rebound % when he's on the floor compared to brimah(if this is even a stat), but watch next time SE is in. Its a HUGE difference.

Gotta love this. You make a factually incorrect point, that Brimah never gets rebounds but Enoch does, and when presented with objective, factual evidence that this isn't the case, you both change your argument and use the old troglodyte go-to of "watch the game."

Thing is, I have been watching the games. And one thing I've noticed is that Brimah's positioning on rebounds has improved exponentially. He absolutely outplayed Jordan Tolbert, who was the best rebounder in the league coming into that game. Might be hard for you to understand, but some of us are capable of noting improvement in players, rather than saying a guy can't rebound because he couldn't rebound two years ago.

If your response to evidence contrary to your assumption is to double down on that assumption, you're probably pretty stupid.

 

[mauconnfan]

Check out Hamilton's numbers with and without Brimah in the line up and come back and see me. Get some facts and come back and see me.

I'm back to see you, what is it you wanted me to see Einstein? The 20 for 49 from the floor or the 17 TO's that you wanted to talk about for DHam since Brimah was back not sure? He was great from the floor the other night 8-14, not so good on the rest of the floor but hey you're happy he made 8 shots finally. Oh yeah do me a favor too, check the Tulsa game tape where he had 12, he scored 10, ALL 4 of his hoops with Brimah sitting - just a fact I wanted to share with you since I was "getting back to you". So without knowing the rest, he's only 35% (16-45) from the floor at best upon his return. Not sure but pretty on par for what he was doing prior right? Not good, little improvement I guess but he's turning it over a lot more too is that because of Brimah? Dumb argument but hey, nice try.

Come back and see me on your next attempt at making him more of an impact than he actually is.

 

[bmayuc]

Gotta love this. You make a factually incorrect point, that Brimah never gets rebounds but Enoch does, and when presented with objective, factual evidence that this isn't the case, you both change your argument and use the old troglodyte go-to of "watch the game."

Thing is, I have been watching the games. And one thing I've noticed is that Brimah's positioning on rebounds has improved exponentially. He absolutely outplayed Jordan Tolbert, who was the best rebounder in the league coming into that game. Might be hard for you to understand, but some of us are capable of noting improvement in players, rather than saying a guy can't rebound because he couldn't rebound two years ago.

If your response to evidence contrary to your assumption is to double down on that assumption, you're probably pretty stupid.

You seem angry. Maybe have some soothing tea?

I just looked back at this entire thread to make sure, and I have no idea what you are talking about? Did you confuse me with someone else in your moment of triumphant righteous indignation?

The only facts I've quoted in this thread are that Enoch was 1-3 in the game shooting. That's correct.

I never wrote anywhere in this thread that ""Brimah never gets rebounds but Enoch does", and anyone who says that is a moron and stupid and other words.

I'm super excited that you have noticed Brimah's positioning on rebounds is better. He still gets his butt pushed all over the floor, despite his improvements. Enoch doesn't get pushed anywhere.

Appreciate your condescension. You seem to be a real good dude.

 

[mauconnfan]

You seem angry. Maybe have some soothing tea?

I just looked back at this entire thread to make sure, and I have no idea what you are talking about? Did you confuse me with someone else in your moment of triumphant righteous indignation?

The only facts I've quoted in this thread are that Enoch was 1-3 in the game shooting. That's correct.

I never wrote anywhere in this thread that ""Brimah never gets rebounds but Enoch does", and anyone who says that is a moron and stupid and other words.

I'm super excited that you have noticed Brimah's positioning on rebounds is better. He still gets his butt pushed all over the floor, despite his improvements. Enoch doesn't get pushed anywhere.

Appreciate your condescension. You seem to be a real good dude.

Well stated. Brimah has been better rebounding the ball and fighting as well as he can with his thin frame, I give him huge kudo's for that. I see that but like you I wonder about giving enoch more time? I mean ultimately AB is the better choice vs most match up more than likely but not always as we've seen. AB did surprise me vs a tough SMU team then a no show vs Cincy. Plus the offensive end the fact we can throw it in and SE can do something with it makes you wonder. They both have trouble on the help but it's AB easily on D overall, SE is a tad slow but getting better. He also doesn't have the wingspan and the blocking ability.

This summer could see things get interesting I feel.

 

[CallMeBruce]

You seem angry. Maybe have some soothing tea?

I just looked back at this entire thread to make sure, and I have no idea what you are talking about? Did you confuse me with someone else in your moment of triumphant righteous indignation?

The only facts I've quoted in this thread are that Enoch was 1-3 in the game shooting. That's correct.

I never wrote anywhere in this thread that ""Brimah never gets rebounds but Enoch does", and anyone who says that is a moron and stupid and other words.

I'm super excited that you have noticed Brimah's positioning on rebounds is better. He still gets his butt pushed all over the floor, despite his improvements. Enoch doesn't get pushed anywhere.

Appreciate your condescension. You seem to be a real good dude.

You know what? You're right. I had you confused with the guy I originally responded to, and that's my bad.

But a guy who starts his post off with "watch the games" shouldn't be complaining about anyone else being condescending.

 

[bmayuc]

You know what? You're right. I had you confused with the guy I originally responded to, and that's my bad.

But a guy who starts his post off with "watch the games" shouldn't be complaining about anyone else being condescending.

you are reading something into nothing. "watch the games" was shorthand for "instead of just looking at rebounding metrics, watch the tape as Enoch clears 10' of space off every missed shot and Brimah gets pushed 5' closer to the rim every time."

But, I was on my phone and lazy. Chalk it up to a misunderstanding if you want, but please drop the tude, bruh