Enoch...it' just never came together

[joober jones]

Thread title was very concerning, was pleasantly surprised to find out it was actually just a regular thread.

I agree. I thought this was a transfer announcement.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I would say DeAndre Daniels low post game improved a ton. Daniels was a lot more than a low post guy, but he did have very good low post game. I also don't remember seeing it too much as a freshman. It just clicked about half way through his sophomore season.

 

[MexicoHusky]

I agree. I thought this was a transfer announcement.

Sorry for the title. I didn't put much thought into it

 

[joober jones]

Sorry for the title. I didn't put much thought into it

No worries. If that's the worst thing that happens on the Boneyard today, it'll be our best day ever.

 

[imno1]

They should have incorporated Steve more in the offense. I think he's capable and it might have given him more confidence. At least run one play for him in the limited time he was in.
I've got a question about the summer. It's rare lately I hear any news about our players during the off season other than an occasional summer league game. Is this typical? We make fun of "the big man camp" but do our guys do more, less, the same as the other top schools?

 

[Chief00]

I have to laugh at this narrative put out about all the stuff Enoch needs to learn on D - yet my lying eyes see that he is our only Big that doesn't get backed down. Sure he has a lot to learn but how likely is it that Glen Miller is going to teach him stuff that has escaped all recent bigs.

 

[mauconnfan]

Completely disagree with most of this. In my mind, guys who developed a lot were the exception, not the rule.

I am not disagreeing with what you say so give it a second. The more you think about it most of what you say is very true. But Knight, Jake, Sellers, Thabeet and the obvious Okafor did and I am sure I am missing someone. Others have not, and Boone may be one. But he was already very much a huge reason they won a title, not just an "and one" either, I mean rebounds, blocks, passes, tip ins and really good defense throughout his freshman year with steady confidence growth if not game. It would seem he reached his best immediately and somehow didn't get a lot better I would agree but he had less room to get better. And our 2 bigs who have shown little improvement, had lots of room to grow to be honest, and little has to do with coaching and that's obvious. It's repetitive but true, they both lack IQ for the game, natural skills which are required to reach the ceiling. Heck both elite athletic guys who just don't have the feel so far and the reality is the expectations are low that will suddenly show up ext year, I hope so but don't see it.

 

[3rdbass]

Also I don't think the older guys trusted him. When he came in in after most of the team was on the bench with 2 fouls, there was a play where he was wide open almost under the basket having boxed his man out and Gibbs looked at him and ignored him (I think it was a mistake, should have let him try, it would have helped the perimeter offense).

That said he's just a freshman and KO had Nolan and Facey ahead of him. (imho, I would have hoped we'd worked on him more, Kansas kicked out butts inside, we needed a big body).

I think it was more that SG didn't trust any big guy. I remember that play vividly as he had the Kansas guy on his rear and was ready for the pass. SG did his normal look like he did with SM and then pass out to another perimeter guy. He also dribbled it around at times on the perimeter when faced with this predicament in similar situations during the year. SG was an awful PG who had no faith in any of his big men. At that time of the game our guards were doing nothing so no reason to try to get it inside to a big guy who had his man sealed off and had a semblance of offensive talent.

We just don't like playing the ball inside to our big men unless you count getting it to AB on the low blocks for horrible from the hip hook shot. LOL!

 

[Kitaman]

We just don't like playing the ball inside to our big men unless you count getting it to AB on the low blocks for horrible from the hip hook shot. LOL!

Yeah, this was a perimeter passing team, period. Chat room was full of perimeter pass comments during the games.

In defense of the guards/SFs, if Miller was not on the floor there wasn't really an offensive big to pass the ball in to. Teams eventually took away the alley oops to Brimah and we had no backup plays.

Against #1 seed Kansas we were playing 4 offensive players for long periods. Combine that with lack of offensive rebounds our disadvantage at the PF and Center position was exposed and exploited.

 

[7774]

I am not disagreeing with what you say so give it a second. The more you think about it most of what you say is very true. But Knight, Jake, Sellers, Thabeet and the obvious Okafor did and I am sure I am missing someone. Others have not, and Boone may be one. But he was already very much a huge reason they won a title, not just an "and one" either, I mean rebounds, blocks, passes, tip ins and really good defense throughout his freshman year with steady confidence growth if not game. It would seem he reached his best immediately and somehow didn't get a lot better I would agree but he had less room to get better. And our 2 bigs who have shown little improvement, had lots of room to grow to be honest, and little has to do with coaching and that's obvious. It's repetitive but true, they both lack IQ for the game, natural skills which are required to reach the ceiling. Heck both elite athletic guys who just don't have the feel so far and the reality is the expectations are low that will suddenly show up ext year, I hope so but don't see it.

Well I basically agree with everything you have said. My position is we've never been great at developing big men, we've just brought in less talented big men lately due to the many various recruiting restrictions we've had to deal with. Guards and wings are the players that improve here, and I hope it continues that way, because that strategy works consistently in the tournament.

Boone was a total revelation when he showed up as a freshman. Just amazing in terms of defensive positioning, moving within a team defensive scheme, blocking out, and finishing put backs. Personally, I don't really think our coaching staff was most responsible for that. I think Josh Boone was most responsible for that because he just showed up knowing how to play basketball from the first game, which is kind of my point. Brimah, Facey, and Nolan didn't show up really knowing how to play basketball. They're just talented at some basketball skills.

I also agree that Brimah has a low bball IQ, which is why I don't get you ripping on him all the time. He has improved as a player. He shot 57% from the line as a freshman, and 82% this year. Off the top of my head I can't think of any of our big men making a bigger improvement than that ever. He committed 7.1 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman, and 4.9 per 40 minutes this year. Now, no one is happy he's committing 5 fouls per 40 this year, but that doesn't change the fact that it is improvement. He's marginally improved in getting position, catching the ball, and other basic skills. The freshman year Brimah couldn't have played a game like he did against SMU at home this year if he was given 1000 tries. The guy is top 300 recruit, who, when has been able to stay on the court , has changed the course of many games with his ability to block and alter shots. He's valuable. He's also most likely never going to do the things high bball IQ players do.

Knight's a really good example of improvement, and Jake is decent too, although imo Jake was fairly solid immediately, he just fouled a ton. I really don't give us any credit for Okafor, 1. Because he was really, really good when he showed up, and 2. He's just a total outlier as a human. People with his intelligence, determination, drive, focus, and character always improve. He would have been great wherever, we just lucked into him.

 

[mauconnfan]

Well I basically agree with everything you have said. My position is we've never been great at developing big men, we've just brought in less talented big men lately due to the many various recruiting restrictions we've had to deal with. Guards and wings are the players that improve here, and I hope it continues that way, because that strategy works consistently in the tournament.

Boone was a total revelation when he showed up as a freshman. Just amazing in terms of defensive positioning, moving within a team defensive scheme, blocking out, and finishing put backs. Personally, I don't really think our coaching staff was most responsible for that. I think Josh Boone was most responsible for that because he just showed up knowing how to play basketball from the first game, which is kind of my point. Brimah, Facey, and Nolan didn't show up really knowing how to play basketball. They're just talented at some basketball skills.

I also agree that Brimah has a low bball IQ, which is why I don't get you ripping on him all the time. He has improved as a player. He shot 57% from the line as a freshman, and 82% this year. Off the top of my head I can't think of any of our big men making a bigger improvement than that ever. He committed 7.1 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman, and 4.9 per 40 minutes this year. Now, no one is happy he's committing 5 fouls per 40 this year, but that doesn't change the fact that it is improvement. He's marginally improved in getting position, catching the ball, and other basic skills. The freshman year Brimah couldn't have played a game like he did against SMU at home this year if he was given 1000 tries. The guy is top 300 recruit, who, when has been able to stay on the court , has changed the course of many games with his ability to block and alter shots. He's valuable. He's also most likely never going to do the things high bball IQ players do.

Knight's a really good example of improvement, and Jake is decent too, although imo Jake was fairly solid immediately, he just fouled a ton. I really don't give us any credit for Okafor, 1. Because he was really, really good when he showed up, and 2. He's just a total outlier as a human. People with his intelligence, determination, drive, focus, and character always improve. He would have been great wherever, we just lucked into him.

Good post agree with all or most, minus the "ripping" of AB. Whether he is a Top 300 recruit or Rodney Purvis I am not sure what the difference is once you've had that Husky uni on for 3 years? So I do have a tendency to try to calm the people who feel he's adding more to the team than he really is, that's on me. I like the kid and get where he's coming from, but he hasn't improved half as much as you or a few others believe and that's frustrating. I'm not the only one by far, but I think Jerry thinks so. Anyway all good.

As far as the big men and development I'm a firm believer we had someone special in Clyde and he was able to do some things no doubt. But big men get better if they work hard and have the ability/instincts to get better. I mean there are a lot of AB's out there and it doesn't matter who's coaching them, they just don't have it. Then there's a Boone who comes in as you said with an amazing mind for the game at a young age and an Okafor that was going to get better no matter where he was and who was coaching him. Not easy to develop these guys whether you have "big's" coach per se or a bunch of old guards who know the game. It's repetition and drills with the big himself learning how to post up, look for the ball, pivot ball fake or throw a jump hook up (our guy can't 3 years now). Summer work with an instructor and himself grinding to be better, that's what most bigs do to get better. Many of them come in equipped, many don't. But I will say we've struggled to find or create a really good big in a while so maybe change is required at this point, could be. Just want to get back to having an impact of physical nature somewhere in that box sometime soon, it will help get us further no doubt.

 

[joober jones]

Well I basically agree with everything you have said. My position is we've never been great at developing big men, we've just brought in less talented big men lately due to the many various recruiting restrictions we've had to deal with. Guards and wings are the players that improve here, and I hope it continues that way, because that strategy works consistently in the tournament.

Boone was a total revelation when he showed up as a freshman. Just amazing in terms of defensive positioning, moving within a team defensive scheme, blocking out, and finishing put backs. Personally, I don't really think our coaching staff was most responsible for that. I think Josh Boone was most responsible for that because he just showed up knowing how to play basketball from the first game, which is kind of my point. Brimah, Facey, and Nolan didn't show up really knowing how to play basketball. They're just talented at some basketball skills.

I also agree that Brimah has a low bball IQ, which is why I don't get you ripping on him all the time. He has improved as a player. He shot 57% from the line as a freshman, and 82% this year. Off the top of my head I can't think of any of our big men making a bigger improvement than that ever. He committed 7.1 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman, and 4.9 per 40 minutes this year. Now, no one is happy he's committing 5 fouls per 40 this year, but that doesn't change the fact that it is improvement. He's marginally improved in getting position, catching the ball, and other basic skills. The freshman year Brimah couldn't have played a game like he did against SMU at home this year if he was given 1000 tries. The guy is top 300 recruit, who, when has been able to stay on the court , has changed the course of many games with his ability to block and alter shots. He's valuable. He's also most likely never going to do the things high bball IQ players do.

Knight's a really good example of improvement, and Jake is decent too, although imo Jake was fairly solid immediately, he just fouled a ton. I really don't give us any credit for Okafor, 1. Because he was really, really good when he showed up, and 2. He's just a total outlier as a human. People with his intelligence, determination, drive, focus, and character always improve. He would have been great wherever, we just lucked into him.

Good points, but Nolan made quite the jump in FT%. He went from 27% his junior season to 82% his senior season. True, the sample size was small and he shot in the high 70s as a sophomore... and I've just defeated my own argument.

 

[Gurleyman]

Boone improved quite a bit as an offensive player between his freshman and sophomore years. Some of that was Okafor being gone and getting more touches, but he also didn't get the easy put backs that came from Okafor drawing doubles (or Gordon breaking down the defense, for that matter). As a sophomore, he could get the ball thrown into him on the low block and he could make his own moves and score, which didn't happen really at all his freshman year.

Problem was he plateaued there, or regressed even, between his sophomore and junior years when we were hoping and expecting he'd keep following the Okafor path.

 

[ktuck911]

I predict Enoch will be much improved next season.. He got a taste of High Major D1 basketball.. He showed us he can post up... has a soft touch around the basket.. The thing that he didn't show us: tenacity... He's gotta put in the work this Summer... send him to a big man camp.. play with some more mature young men... He looked young out there against the upperclass bigs and even some of the smaller players on opposing teams... Didn't really see him carve out a space for himself against stiffer comp...
Weight room and Big Man camp will do wonders for his game...

 

[Gringo]

I haven't read through the posts on this thread. My only contribution is to say when I see the thread title I cringe.

 

[intlzncster]

I predict Enoch will be much improved next season.. He got a taste of High Major D1 basketball.. He showed us he can post up... has a soft touch around the basket.. The thing that he didn't show us: tenacity... He's gotta put in the work this Summer... send him to a big man camp.. play with some more mature young men... He looked young out there against the upperclass bigs and even some of the smaller players on opposing teams... Didn't really see him carve out a space for himself against stiffer comp...
Weight room and Big Man camp will do wonders for his game...

I think lack of tenacity is related to tentativeness. Being unsure of where to be and what to do on the court.

And as a reminder, he's waaay younger than upperclass bigs. He doesn't turn 19 until mid September! He's one of those kids I wished red shirted this year. But we just didn't have the depth, especially given the foul prone nature of our front line.

 

[HuskyWarrior611]

I think injuries really affected AB throughout his career so far. Remember when he looked like he had a consistent jumper to go along with some hook shots early in the year? Or maybe it was his sophomore year? Hopefully an injury free summer could see the return of that to go along with better hands and even less fouling. Enoch really just needs to learn defense and it will be smooth sailing for him from there. He has the best offensive low post game I've seen since Gavin Edwards here. The sooner he's a starter the better for the team.