Enoch...it' just never came together | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Enoch...it' just never came together

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Isn't there a famous "Big Man" Camp down in Texas put on by Pete Newell or some one?

This seems like it would be ideal for Enoch.

I agree that he needs to play and play and play. Needs to work on his game and iron out the kinks and get physically stronger.

UCONN needs a rebounder. With solid rebounding will come minutes and with minutes comes confidence and experience.

Just a minor correction. There is a Pete Newell Big Mans camp. But Newell himself passed away in 2008. The camp itself is still very good and well attended.
 
enoch didnt play because he got turned around on defense and didnt play great help defense. his on ball defense on some of the bigger guys we played against was solid and he is clearly skilled in the post. he will be a good ot very good player whether it be next year or the year after once brimah is gone
 
In numerous games including Kansas, Enoch got great post position and the ball never came to him. We preferred to play 4 on 5 offense rather than trust Enoch with the ball. The other players saw him every day ion practice, so there was probably a reason they never threw him the ball. We'll see how it goes.

Slightly OT: Josh Boone was a great rebounder especially on the offensive end his freshman year. An immediate contributor.
 
Anyone who follows recruiting knew he was going to take some time. Is he even 18 yet? Incredible young for his class. Upside is still there. Not worried about him at all, did exactly what I thought as a freshman. Spect him to be very good as a junior and senior.
 
What do you think Josh Scott of Colorado looked like Frosh year? Guaranteed he saw more minutes.

Enoch is a crucial development project going forward. IMHO ... He's got the raw ability. His minutes & advancement was promising. And NO ... The track record of bigs at UConn was not seeing them play well by the end of their first year. Our history is all kinds of development.

If Enoch learns good solid defense, I see no reason not to have him play 15-22 minutes next year. And then he's on his way. He has more presence than Facey and a better skill set. If he can grab offensive rebounds & run inside plays for him, he could be a solid star.
Sure, Josh Scott played more minutes. On a team that had only two other players taller than 6-7, who, combined, averaged 2.3 points and 3.3 rebounds in 12 mpg. He needed to play. Meanwhile, we had Brimah, Facey, and Nolan who had experience, and brought in Miller.

Scott also came as around a Top 50 player (55 composite on 24/7). Enoch was composite 87.

Different scenario.
 
Our big men development has regressed since about 2010. We have gotten away with that though winning 2 national championships during a time where to win, you needed elite guard play and defense. Now I think we are coming back to a time where you need a big physical presence around the rim as well. Perhaps it's the shorter shot clock, in which you need guys who can post up and rebound.
 
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In numerous games including Kansas, Enoch got great post position and the ball never came to him. We preferred to play 4 on 5 offense rather than trust Enoch with the ball. The other players saw him every day ion practice, so there was probably a reason they never threw him the ball. We'll see how it goes.
Agree that we struggled to get him the ball when he established good, deep post position. Disagree that it was a trust issue - it was a skill issue IMO. Throwing a good post pass is not easy, and nobody on the team is particularly good at it.

AJ needs to come in this summer and teach some classes. Easily the best entry passer we've ever had.
 
When I read the title I thought it was a quote from Enoch about the team's season.
 
But he was also a year older than Enoch. playing next to the player of the year.
People want to pretend context doesn't matter.

Okafor's defensive prowess also allowed Boone to play strong on the ball defense without worrying as much about the help. Enoch's on the ball defense wasn't his issue: he was weak as a help defender in particular.
 
They're not the same guy though. That would be like looking at Josh Boone's career (not much real development) and being worried Jeff Adrien (or whoever) wasn't going to develop. They are just not related.

That's a fair point, but JC also earned the benefit of the doubt after developing guys like Okafor, Villenueva, and Armstrong. Boone may have been disappointing as a junior, but JC had a pretty good "batting average" on developing bigs. Boone was the exception, not the rule.

So far, KO is below the Mendoza line. Now, I'm not ready to render judgment until we see all 4 years of Facey and Brimah, as well as a few years of more highly-rated guys like Enoch and Brown, but it's not unreasonable to be concerned at this point about this staff's ability to develop bigs.
 
Enoch needs to approach this summer as if the 5 spot is open and look to take minutes and the starting position from Amida. There is vulnerability there and if Enoch was a mean SOB he would make every attempt to exploit and overtake Amida.

At the very least he needs to put some fear into Amida who is approaching his last season of college basketball. Amida needs to be pushed out of his comfort zone (i.e. only blocking/altering shots) and into a 'legitimate' NBA prospect.
 
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Our big men development has regressed since about 2010. We have gotten away with that though winning 2 national championships during a time where to win, you needed elite guard play and defense. Now I think we are coming back to a time where you need a big physical presence around the rim as well. Perhaps it's the shorter shot clock, in which you need guys who can post up and rebound.
I feel like this is another "This Day in Boneyard Revisionist History". Aside from a couple of outliers, like Okafor, I don't remember many big men improving that much. Boone didn't really improve over his 3 years, Hilton didn't improve over his first 3 years, then made a giant leap out of nowhere. Adrien's PPG, RPG, FG%, FT% were basically the same his last 3 years. Oriakhi didn't really improve in his 3 years.

We had guys who came in as better players prior to 2010, because we didn't have the recruiting anchors of: Calhoun's health problems/impending retirement, scholarship restrictions, recruiting restrictions, tournament ban. It doesn't seem like those players improved that much to me though, nor did they need to. We just need big men who can play consistent half court defense and get rebounds in order to be successful as a team. Our guards and wings always carry us.
 
That's a fair point, but JC also earned the benefit of the doubt after developing guys like Okafor, Villenueva, and Armstrong. Boone may have been disappointing as a junior, but JC had a pretty good "batting average" on developing bigs. Boone was the exception, not the rule.

So far, KO is below the Mendoza line. Now, I'm not ready to render judgment until we see all 4 years of Facey and Brimah, as well as a few years of more highly-rated guys like Enoch and Brown, but it's not unreasonable to be concerned at this point about this staff's ability to develop bigs.

I don't think Amida had as much to work with as people thought. He's closer to a Chuck than he is to a Hasheem. Facey, the jury is out. He could very easily have a Gavin Edwards type senior year.

For me, Enoch will be a bellwether. He has a lot to work with, physically and skill wise. The question is whether or not he can be taught to be a basketball player. That's on KO.
 
IDK how anyone was expecting him to be a solid contributer from day one. Every single scouting report had him pegged as a young raw big man. Plus he was 17 when he got here and didn't really start playing top competition until his last couple years of HS. He has the size and athleticism clearly but it will take some time until he's the monster we all believe he can be.
 
I feel like this is another "This Day in Boneyard Revisionist History". Aside from a couple of outliers, like Okafor, I don't remember many big men improving that much. Boone didn't really improve over his 3 years, Hilton didn't improve over his first 3 years, then made a giant leap out of nowhere. Adrien's PPG, RPG, FG%, FT% were basically the same his last 3 years. Oriakhi didn't really improve in his 3 years.

We had guys who came in as better players prior to 2010, because we didn't have the recruiting anchors of: Calhoun's health problems/impending retirement, scholarship restrictions, recruiting restrictions, tournament ban. It doesn't seem like those players improved that much to me though, nor did they need to. We just need big men who can play consistent half court defense and get rebounds in order to be successful as a team. Our guards and wings always carry us.
I mean I'd say Thabeet improved a tad. His post game was never great but it improved to the point he become a threat on the block, same with his hands. Brimah has not seen that type of improvement and I personally think he just has a much lower ceiling rather than a coaching problem.
 
I mean I'd say Thabeet improved a tad. His post game was never great but it improved to the point he become a threat on the block, same with his hands. Brimah has not seen that type of improvement and I personally think he just has a much lower ceiling rather than a coaching problem.
Agreed, I would put Thabeet in the category of guys who definitely showed improvement. But again, there are just a handful of guys in that category, and people are acting like we had consistently amazing big man development when Calhoun was here.
 
That's a fair point, but JC also earned the benefit of the doubt after developing guys like Okafor, Villenueva, and Armstrong. Boone may have been disappointing as a junior, but JC had a pretty good "batting average" on developing bigs. Boone was the exception, not the rule.

So far, KO is below the Mendoza line. Now, I'm not ready to render judgment until we see all 4 years of Facey and Brimah, as well as a few years of more highly-rated guys like Enoch and Brown, but it's not unreasonable to be concerned at this point about this staff's ability to develop bigs.
Completely disagree with most of this. In my mind, guys who developed a lot were the exception, not the rule.
 
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That has pretty well been shot down by now. That was what he was going for but it didn't come together and he's going to stay in 2017.
AH, must have missed that. Thanks for clarifying. We need a big body out there. It was almost embarrassing how thin and gangly we were comparatively!
 
Slightly OT: Josh Boone was a great rebounder especially on the offensive end his freshman year. An immediate contributor.

I suspect that Enoch would look much better playing along side Emeka. If you have a skilled big to play beside, freshman mistakes have less impact and are less noticeable.
 
I would say DeAndre Daniels low post game improved a ton. Daniels was a lot more than a low post guy, but he did have very good low post game. I also don't remember seeing it too much as a freshman. It just clicked about half way through his sophomore season.
 
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They should have incorporated Steve more in the offense. I think he's capable and it might have given him more confidence. At least run one play for him in the limited time he was in.
I've got a question about the summer. It's rare lately I hear any news about our players during the off season other than an occasional summer league game. Is this typical? We make fun of "the big man camp" but do our guys do more, less, the same as the other top schools?
 
I have to laugh at this narrative put out about all the stuff Enoch needs to learn on D - yet my lying eyes see that he is our only Big that doesn't get backed down. Sure he has a lot to learn but how likely is it that Glen Miller is going to teach him stuff that has escaped all recent bigs.
 
Completely disagree with most of this. In my mind, guys who developed a lot were the exception, not the rule.

I am not disagreeing with what you say so give it a second. The more you think about it most of what you say is very true. But Knight, Jake, Sellers, Thabeet and the obvious Okafor did and I am sure I am missing someone. Others have not, and Boone may be one. But he was already very much a huge reason they won a title, not just an "and one" either, I mean rebounds, blocks, passes, tip ins and really good defense throughout his freshman year with steady confidence growth if not game. It would seem he reached his best immediately and somehow didn't get a lot better I would agree but he had less room to get better. And our 2 bigs who have shown little improvement, had lots of room to grow to be honest, and little has to do with coaching and that's obvious. It's repetitive but true, they both lack IQ for the game, natural skills which are required to reach the ceiling. Heck both elite athletic guys who just don't have the feel so far and the reality is the expectations are low that will suddenly show up ext year, I hope so but don't see it.
 
Also I don't think the older guys trusted him. When he came in in after most of the team was on the bench with 2 fouls, there was a play where he was wide open almost under the basket having boxed his man out and Gibbs looked at him and ignored him (I think it was a mistake, should have let him try, it would have helped the perimeter offense).

That said he's just a freshman and KO had Nolan and Facey ahead of him. (imho, I would have hoped we'd worked on him more, Kansas kicked out butts inside, we needed a big body).
I think it was more that SG didn't trust any big guy. I remember that play vividly as he had the Kansas guy on his rear and was ready for the pass. SG did his normal look like he did with SM and then pass out to another perimeter guy. He also dribbled it around at times on the perimeter when faced with this predicament in similar situations during the year. SG was an awful PG who had no faith in any of his big men. At that time of the game our guards were doing nothing so no reason to try to get it inside to a big guy who had his man sealed off and had a semblance of offensive talent.

We just don't like playing the ball inside to our big men unless you count getting it to AB on the low blocks for horrible from the hip hook shot. LOL!
 
We just don't like playing the ball inside to our big men unless you count getting it to AB on the low blocks for horrible from the hip hook shot. LOL!

Yeah, this was a perimeter passing team, period. Chat room was full of perimeter pass comments during the games.

In defense of the guards/SFs, if Miller was not on the floor there wasn't really an offensive big to pass the ball in to. Teams eventually took away the alley oops to Brimah and we had no backup plays.

Against #1 seed Kansas we were playing 4 offensive players for long periods. Combine that with lack of offensive rebounds our disadvantage at the PF and Center position was exposed and exploited.
 
I am not disagreeing with what you say so give it a second. The more you think about it most of what you say is very true. But Knight, Jake, Sellers, Thabeet and the obvious Okafor did and I am sure I am missing someone. Others have not, and Boone may be one. But he was already very much a huge reason they won a title, not just an "and one" either, I mean rebounds, blocks, passes, tip ins and really good defense throughout his freshman year with steady confidence growth if not game. It would seem he reached his best immediately and somehow didn't get a lot better I would agree but he had less room to get better. And our 2 bigs who have shown little improvement, had lots of room to grow to be honest, and little has to do with coaching and that's obvious. It's repetitive but true, they both lack IQ for the game, natural skills which are required to reach the ceiling. Heck both elite athletic guys who just don't have the feel so far and the reality is the expectations are low that will suddenly show up ext year, I hope so but don't see it.
Well I basically agree with everything you have said. My position is we've never been great at developing big men, we've just brought in less talented big men lately due to the many various recruiting restrictions we've had to deal with. Guards and wings are the players that improve here, and I hope it continues that way, because that strategy works consistently in the tournament.

Boone was a total revelation when he showed up as a freshman. Just amazing in terms of defensive positioning, moving within a team defensive scheme, blocking out, and finishing put backs. Personally, I don't really think our coaching staff was most responsible for that. I think Josh Boone was most responsible for that because he just showed up knowing how to play basketball from the first game, which is kind of my point. Brimah, Facey, and Nolan didn't show up really knowing how to play basketball. They're just talented at some basketball skills.

I also agree that Brimah has a low bball IQ, which is why I don't get you ripping on him all the time. He has improved as a player. He shot 57% from the line as a freshman, and 82% this year. Off the top of my head I can't think of any of our big men making a bigger improvement than that ever. He committed 7.1 fouls per 40 minutes as a freshman, and 4.9 per 40 minutes this year. Now, no one is happy he's committing 5 fouls per 40 this year, but that doesn't change the fact that it is improvement. He's marginally improved in getting position, catching the ball, and other basic skills. The freshman year Brimah couldn't have played a game like he did against SMU at home this year if he was given 1000 tries. The guy is top 300 recruit, who, when has been able to stay on the court , has changed the course of many games with his ability to block and alter shots. He's valuable. He's also most likely never going to do the things high bball IQ players do.

Knight's a really good example of improvement, and Jake is decent too, although imo Jake was fairly solid immediately, he just fouled a ton. I really don't give us any credit for Okafor, 1. Because he was really, really good when he showed up, and 2. He's just a total outlier as a human. People with his intelligence, determination, drive, focus, and character always improve. He would have been great wherever, we just lucked into him.
 
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