End the grand experiment - Please?



Big Mick

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Not to pick on Irwin; but, the numbers from these last 3 games
1) Baylor................. Minutes 32 Points 0 Rebounds 2
2) Houston............ Minutes 18 Points 0 Rebounds 3
3) Memphis.......... Minutes 24 Points 0 Rebounds 4

Running around setting picks only disrupts ball movement, which is UCONN's bread and butter.

Were you pondering why everyone seems to be standing around? Well, they they are watching the ball handler trying desperately to use these multiple picks that never seem to quite work and the clock runs down.....

Anyone seriously disagreeing, do tell.
 
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Not to pick on Irwin; but, the numbers from these last 3 games
1) Baylor................. Minutes 32 Points 0 Rebounds 2
2) Houston............ Minutes 18 Points 0 Rebounds 3
3) Memphis.......... Minutes 24 Points 0 Rebounds 4

Running around setting picks only disrupts ball movement, which is UCONN's bread and butter.

Were you pondering why everyone seems to be standing around? Well, they they are watching the ball handler trying desperately to use these multiple picks that never seem to quite work and the clock runs down.....

Anyone seriously disagreeing, do tell.
You obviously didn't see the pre-game. This isn't an experiment and unless something phenomenal happens, Irwin will be the started until the end of the year. Per Geno, the coaches noticed the team was standing around, not cutting. Once Irwin got in the game, the team started moving and cutting.
 
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I believe Anna should start. Kyla and AB coming off the bench first. Anna is picking up the offense nicely and provides more of threat on offense. Kyla can come in without the pressure and hit an occaisonal open shot and provide breather minutes to the starters. The biggest concern right now is Aubrey needs to find consistency and provide more valuable minutes to this team. We are in desperate need of her to stay on the court because of her ability to really defend 1-5 and offensive rebounding, fast break finishing etc.
 

ochoopsfan

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You obviously didn't see the pre-game. This isn't an experiment and unless something phenomenal happens, Irwin will be the started until the end of the year. Per Geno, the coaches noticed the team was standing around, not cutting. Once Irwin got in the game, the team started moving and cutting.
If the coaches notice this and they dont correct the problem then the problem is with the coaches or the other 5 on the court. Their are film sessions to show them what is not being done correctly. But the opposing coaches will keep laying off Irwin and making the others work harder to score. I think the basketball talent is there for most of the players, but is the BB IQ and hustle the same as recent grads like, Phee, Lou, Kia and Gabby. I am afraid not, or not yet.
 
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"Grand Experiment" ?? More like "End of the Rope" ! Personally, I would start Anna. Not that she has earned it based on stats. But, she seems most ready to contribute at the start of games..
 
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If the coaches notice this and they dont correct the problem then the problem is with the coaches or the other 5 on the court. Their are film sessions to show them what is not being done correctly. But the opposing coaches will keep laying off Irwin and making the others work harder to score. I think the basketball talent is there for most of the players, but is the BB IQ and hustle the same as recent grads like, Phee, Lou, Kia and Gabby. I am afraid not, or not yet.
except sometimes you can do everything right as coaches and it is still up to the players to do it, and they being human sometimes don't follow what they learned. I am sure any parent with kids can attest to that.
 
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I haven't yet seen the postgame news conference, but I understand that Geno commented that Kyla had been less effective (and her 3-point shot had been less accurate) in the last two weeks. But I have not noticed that opponents are not guarding her 3-point shot, except when they have no choice because they've had to double-team in the paint to stop another threat. That has been happening all year, and that is the only time that Kyla has taken 3-point shots. Until the last two weeks, she was making them with regularity.

Big Mick didn't say whom he would propose to start instead of Kyla, but in the past he has been a proponent of Aubrey, presumably based on her athleticism. MIck, did Aubrey's 5 minutes against Memphis impress you? They didn't impress me. She got some contested rebounds, but her putback attempts were blocked. Her drive attempts to the basket resulted in blocked layups. Her upper body strength does not seem to be any more adequate than Liv's, and perhaps less so.

Anna is a more plausible replacement for Kyla in the starting lineup, and it would not surprise me if she did assume the role pretty soon. But I have predicted that before, and have been wrong. I don't think she is as good a passer and screener as Kyla, and she is more likely than Kyla to be out of position on defense. That was very visible on one of Memphis's first-half layups last night.
 

meyers7

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Not to pick on Irwin; but,
Yea, "but" you are.

Running around setting picks only disrupts ball movement, which is UCONN's bread and butter.
Ummm, no. Like completely no. Like, that's 100% the opposite of how it actually works (or is supposed to work). UCONN's offense is predicated on picks. Hard picks and hard cuts off those picks. Without them, there is no bread and butter.

Were you pondering why everyone seems to be standing around? Well, they they are watching the ball handler trying desperately to use these multiple picks that never seem to quite work and the clock runs down.....
Yea, they should not be standing around watching Irwin set picks. They should be also setting picks and cutting off those picks. I'll agree the rest of the team is not really doing that. Or at least enough of it.

Anyone seriously disagreeing, do tell.
Yea, and there you go. You're basically 180 out of phase with how the offense is supposed to work.

Now, Irwin needs to do more than set picks. She also needs to roll of them or probably better, flare off them. She also needs to take and make the shots when she's open.

As poorly as the offense runs sometimes, it runs better when Irwin is out there. Hence why she is starting.

Markurat give you more scoring, but the offense doesn't run quite as well.

Griffin gives you more athleticism, better rebounding, She's helpful in an open floor up and down game. BUT, in a half court game (like last night), Griffin is pretty detrimental to running a half court offense at this point.
 

Big Mick

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..... did Aubrey's 5 minutes against Memphis impress you? ....
Well, lets go to the Stats:
Irwin.....Minutes 24 Points 0 Rebounds 4 Blocks 0 Turnovers 1 Fouls 1
Griffin...Minutes 05 Points 0 Rebounds 3 Blocks 1 Turnovers 1 Fouls 0

Looks like Griffin was more productive in just 5 minutes than Irwin in 24.



.....Anna is a more plausible replacement for Kyla...
Agreed.

Look: Irwin is a great teammate, a really nice person and will end up being a successful coach whether in High School or College. However, she is not an elite athlete: no hops to defend or rebound down low; too slow to guard on the perimeter; a non existent offensive game.
 
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You obviously didn't see the pre-game. This isn't an experiment and unless something phenomenal happens, Irwin will be the started until the end of the year. Per Geno, the coaches noticed the team was standing around, not cutting. Once Irwin got in the game, the team started moving and cutting.
I didn't see the pre-game but I did see the game. Sorry Geew but we must have been watching a different game. Four Uconn players were being guarded by five Memphis players. They didn't even bother guarding Irwin because they knew she doesn't shoot when she gets the ball. I counted at least five times she was completely open and she passed to a player who immediately had two players on her.
 
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except sometimes you can do everything right as coaches and it is still up to the players to do it, and they being human sometimes don't follow what they learned. I am sure any parent with kids can attest to that.
Very on point PV
 

DefenseBB

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To try to ease the tension of this thread a bit, let me offer a few nuggets of either wisdom or continued insanity, you can be the judge:
1. On this thread is solely UConn Fans who want this team to operate and play to a level we have long gotten used to regardless of the year.
2. Mick expressed an opinion that was thought out and supported with facts based on what he sees going on.
3. Geno and CD are the GOATs but that does not mean they are infallible or do bat crazy sometimes that upon hindsight would be changed.
4. This board/forum is designed to provoke discussion and it has and while we disagree frequently, we should do so in a more cordial manner to those that are our "Bleed Blue" brethren. IF you want to sound off on a LV, Bulldog, MM, Baylor Bear fan or any of the other like, have at it with my full support.
5. I see Big Mick's point to be honest, Kyla needs to provide something on offense to facilitate points being scored and to keep defenders from doubling someone else. She's serviceable on defense but she's a fill-in until either Anna or Aubrey fully gain Geno's trust or until next year when we reload the Bazooka with Evina and the Freshman Five.
Until then, let's try to be a bit more cordial in our rebuttals of each other, unless of course it's @meyers7 then please go ahead and call him an idiot... ;) (that comment made me snarf, for which I will not forgive you!).
 
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I'm sort of with "Big Mick" here - but it goes beyond stats. Quite limited lateral movement and hops presents problems defending and rebounding. Offensively, defenders have been 5-on-4 - even when accurate, she needs to be wide open. Why not spend those minutes developing the underclassmen for March?
 
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If the coaches notice this and they dont correct the problem then the problem is with the coaches or the other 5 on the court. Their are film sessions to show them what is not being done correctly. But the opposing coaches will keep laying off Irwin and making the others work harder to score. I think the basketball talent is there for most of the players, but is the BB IQ and hustle the same as recent grads like, Phee, Lou, Kia and Gabby. I am afraid not, or not yet.
mom not agreeing or disagreeing. Just simply stating what Geno said
 
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I haven't yet seen the postgame news conference, but I understand that Geno commented that Kyla had been less effective (and her 3-point shot had been less accurate) in the last two weeks. But I have not noticed that opponents are not guarding her 3-point shot, except when they have no choice because they've had to double-team in the paint to stop another threat. That has been happening all year, and that is the only time that Kyla has taken 3-point shots. Until the last two weeks, she was making them with regularity.

Big Mick didn't say whom he would propose to start instead of Kyla, but in the past he has been a proponent of Aubrey, presumably based on her athleticism. MIck, did Aubrey's 5 minutes against Memphis impress you? They didn't impress me. She got some contested rebounds, but her putback attempts were blocked. Her drive attempts to the basket resulted in blocked layups. Her upper body strength does not seem to be any more adequate than Liv's, and perhaps less so.

Anna is a more plausible replacement for Kyla in the starting lineup, and it would not surprise me if she did assume the role pretty soon. But I have predicted that before, and have been wrong. I don't think she is as good a passer and screener as Kyla, and she is more likely than Kyla to be out of position on defense. That was very visible on one of Memphis's first-half layups last night.
Well, I think Anna is a better passer. But It is Kyla’s best attribute. Right now Anna gets either the fifth or sixth most minutes. Is she a better pick for fifth starter? Probably, but I think what Geno is doing is setting her up to EARN the spot back just as he took it away from her. She will. If Anna hits three or more threes a game, it changes how teams guard UConn as a whole and we are back in realistic contention for FF. Well, we might make it anyhow but I think Anna could change possible to likely.
 
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I'm not taking a stance on the main question, but I will say that setting picks is definitely *not* the thing that disrupts ball movement. The worst moments are those when all 4 players without the ball are just standing there watching the ball-handler. Setting screens (whether on or off ball) is in theory a good way to create positive motion of players and ball. But of course the catch is that the screener has to set a *good* screen, the player screened for has to *use the screen well*, and the rest of the team needs to play well off the ball screen action.
 

CL82

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FWIW, isn't the whole point of the BY to discuss basketball and the team? If you disagree with another poster, it should be on the relative merits (or lack thereof) of his or her point, not whether they have the right to post their opinion.

That's just my opinion, though. Feel free to disagree with it.

I'm not taking a stance on the main question, but I will say that setting picks is definitely *not* the thing that disrupts ball movement. The worst moments are those when all 4 players without the ball are just standing there watching the ball-handler. In theory setting a screen (whether on or off ball) is the way to create positive motion of players and ball.
Yep.
 

meyers7

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I'm not taking a stance on the main question, but I will say that setting picks is definitely *not* the thing that disrupts ball movement. The worst moments are those when all 4 players without the ball are just standing there watching the ball-handler. Setting screens (whether on or off ball) is in theory a good way to create positive motion of players and ball. But of course the catch is that the screener has to set a *good* screen, the player screened for has to *use the screen well*, and the rest of the team needs to play well off the ball screen action.
Agreed. If one remembers, one of the prettiest teams we ever had (for running offense) was the 13-14 season (40-0) with the second highest Assists ever (850). That team had a player who was known for setting picks (arguably illegal on occasion), one Ms. Stephanie Dolson.

Yea, you need picks to run this offense. Maybe @Big Mick wasn't around then.
 

Big Mick

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Let me try this "one" :) last time:

UCONN's game is based on continuous movement. Within that movement they try to pick-off their defender using any player (teammate or opponent) on the floor. Until recently, they were not a team that dribbles back and forth around the 3 point line trying to use one of those picks to get a shot. Noooo, previously they created open shots with ball movement. For Christ sake, Geno wants them to "READ" and "REACT".

And so, what happens: When Irwin is in the game, all of the above goes out the window as the ball handler (be it Dangerfield, Williams or Walker) works diligently to use those picks; meanwhile, the other three stand around waiting for something to react to. And then, as the clocks runs down (sometimes out) we end up with a not very good shot.

Bad idea, get rid of.
 

CL82

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Let me try this "one" :) last time:

UCONN's game is based on continuous movement. Within that movement they try to pick-off their defender using any player (teammate or opponent) on the floor. Until recently, they were not a team that dribbles back and forth around the 3 point line trying to use one of those picks to get a shot. Noooo, previously they created open shots with ball movement. For Christ sake, Geno wants them to "READ" and "REACT".

And so, what happens: When Irwin is in the game, all of the above goes out the window as the ball handler (be it Dangerfield, Williams or Walker) works diligently to use those picks; meanwhile, the other three stand around waiting for something to react to. And then, as the clocks runs down (sometimes out) we end up with a not very good shot.

Bad idea, get rid of.
You aren't a fan of ball screens. Got it.
 

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