Ellsbury a Yankee

[arnie3]

It's a mind-boggling deal to me. Yes it's an upgrade over Gardner, but Gardner wasn't the problem in 2013. He stayed healthy and was the glue to the outfield. Before Grandy got hurt, there was talk of moving him to left and having Gardner play center. Once Gardner got in center, he made up for a lot of mistakes from Ichiro in right, and Soriano in left, two aging outfielders in the last year of their contracts. I just don't get this deal because there's talk now of using Gardner as trade-bait. He's a natural center fielder, I think as good defensively as Elsbury, and if he is moved to another club, the Yankees haven't addressed their real future problems in left and right.
I think that there has to be more coming. Perhaps this is one piece of the puzzle. I certainly hope so- $22 mil a year is a steep price to pay for someone that the Yankee's hated rival walked away from.

 

[60'sfan]

It's a mind-boggling deal to me. Yes it's an upgrade over Gardner, but Gardner wasn't the problem in 2013. He stayed healthy and was the glue to the outfield. Before Grandy got hurt, there was talk of moving him to left and having Gardner play center. Once Gardner got in center, he made up for a lot of mistakes from Ichiro in right, and Soriano in left, two aging outfielders in the last year of their contracts. I just don't get this deal because there's talk now of using Gardner as trade-bait. He's a natural center fielder, I think as good defensively as Elsbury, and if he is moved to another club, the Yankees haven't addressed their real future problems in left and right.
I think that there has to be more coming. Perhaps this is one piece of the puzzle. I certainly hope so- $22 mil a year is a steep price to pay for someone that the Yankee's hated rival walked away from.

I think the Yankees have yet to address their real problem and that is pitching. Sabathia and Kuroda are a year older and Andy and Hughes are gone. Mo retired. Pineda may be able to help but he has only one year in the majors and is coming off surgery. That's a lot of holes to fill. Plus if Cano signs elsewhere, the entire infield is weak unless Tex has a big comeback. The irony is that if they do sign Cano, they don't have money to do much more. If they let him go, their fan base may go over to the Mets. /http://baseballhotcorner.com/the-new-york-yankees-2014-payroll-is-almost-maxed-out/

 

[mauconnfan]

I think the Yankees have yet to address their real problem and that is pitching. Sabathia and Kuroda are a year older and Andy and Hughes are gone. Mo retired. Pineda may be able to help but he has only one year in the majors and is coming off surgery. That's a lot of holes to fill. Plus if Cano signs elsewhere, the entire infield is weak unless Tex has a big comeback. The irony is that if they do sign Cano, they don't have money to do much more. If they let him go, their fan base may go over to the Mets. /http://baseballhotcorner.com/the-new-york-yankees-2014-payroll-is-almost-maxed-out/

#1 they need CC to be better for sure or else just having him doesn't do all that much. #2 Kuroda is solid and needs to be signed.....Nova is fine and looked real good 2nd half of the year...Pineda is a huge key as well as signing an unknown in Tanaka.........I say get Arroyo for a 13-12 guy eating up innings......4.00 ERA with an improved lineup will be a winner.......

 

[arnie3]

It's not all doom and gloom next year beginning with Nova, and if Kuroda comes back, Pineda is healed, C.C. is something closer to an E.R.A of 4 than 5 which is still possible. The Yankee's have a ton of young arms- Nunu, Betances, Huff, Claiborne, Cabral, Warren and of course David Phelps. If they get Tanaka and 1 or 2 of those arms pan out they'll be more than okay. They did have a combined E.R.A. under 4 last season, and got to see a lot of youngsters during the regular season which doesn't happen often for the Yankees. If they get a seventh or eighth inning person to fill Robertson's last- year role, I think that they will be better than 2013. The Yankees problems last year were lack of homers and scoring runs. Small ball didn't work, and now they're addressing that.
Also, coming out of the organization is an emphatic denial that Gardner will be traded. That source said that they want both he and Ellsbury at the top of the line-up. We'll see.
I guess that if they are to stay under the $189 million they're relying on ARod's suspension to be upheld- that's $30 million in 2014 when bonuses are factored in. And another $15 million in 2015.

Just an aside- what if the Red Sox sign Grandy? That would be way weird!

 

[The Viking]

Good addition by the Yankees but an awful deal in terms of length and dollars per. But really other than 2014 the Yankees don't have a real budget, so how much does that really matter? In 2016 they will have 5 guys eating up 110 million - CC, ARod, Teix, McCann adn Ellsbury - but it doesnt' matter because they'll just bump up their payroll to 240, 250 if they have to compete for the division..they have a comical amount of revenue. So hard to say that for them this is a "BAD" deal.

This screams out to me to be an owner signing rather than a Cashman signing, especially with Hal being the one sending out McCann press releases rather than Cashman the other day. I wonder if Cash is tied up in some bunker somewhere.

Playing in YS will give him at least 5 more HR's a year I'd think. He has no opposite field power whatsoever, so the idea that he'll get triples in the Left center gap is not realistic. All his power is pull.

Still a very good defender and great baserunner. So the value in this deal is if he can keep those two things at elite level for the length of the deal AND if he can all of a sudden be consistently healthy. Regardless of how he got injured, his body doesn't handle collisions well, whether it be players, walls, foul balls off feet...always seems like when he hit something he would get injured, fluke or not. I don't think all of a sudden collisions are going to go away, but we'll see.

I'll always be happy for the two rings he helped us win and this doesn't feel anything like Damon. I'm not really that bothered by it because it was predestined for years that he would be leaving. I like the Sox sticking with shorter deals on years and working in their young players now. Time to see what's going on with all this talk of talent on the farm. Let Bradley Jr and Bogaerts get 400-500 at bats this year.

 

[tdrink]

Long term, big $ contracts might have made sense in the steroid era when guys who got banged up could bounce back quickly with a little help from the juice.

Not saying the Yanks had more guys doing it than other teams, but the big contract strategy benefitted more from it. If you are soaking up that much payroll in one player you simply have to have them in the lineup all the time for the production and to put fans in the seats.

Ellsbury has taken his time coming back from injuries. The thought was that he was being cautious so he didnt jeopardize a chance at a big contract . Will be interesting to see how he handles injuries now that he is getting real paid.

 

[StoweD210]

I think the really important question is, What is John Sterling's home run call for him?

"Jacoby jacked one!" seems obvious, but does he also tag on something like "He ellsburied that one in the bleachers!"

 

[mauconnfan]

Agreed with Viking (?) on the Cashman / Steinbrenner deal.....no doubt screams overriding Brian as does McCann......think they overpaid both parties but were desperate to out a winning team on the field. The $189M is on it's way out LOL......

But Sox fans I know you weren't doing it purposely but let's admit one thing, NO ONE else was able to throw the dollars out you did to win last year besides the Yanks and Dodgers. Key here is the Sox were more efficient and smarter with theirs although they spent more than anyone to jump from last to first!! But having said that Viking is also right (wtf?) in the fact I like the short term agreements with key pieces to fill in. Plus they have a farm system only the Cards are equal to as far as "ready" players.

I hate the deal but we'll see.......can't imagine him on the Yanks now but I guess a 300ft SHOT in the 9th in April to win a game will help me change!

 

[Cheddie]

This screams out to me to be an owner signing rather than a Cashman signing, especially with Hal being the one sending out McCann press releases rather than Cashman the other day. I wonder if Cash is tied up in some bunker somewhere.

I don't get the sense that Hal, unlike Hank or certainly George, goes after players. He's mostly concerned about the bottom line. If Cashman wasn't involved, it was more likely Randy Levine. (Levine famously signed Rafael Soriano over Cashman's strong objections).

Re: the 5 guys eating up $110 million in 2016 ... yeah, NY can afford it. But the highly publicized $189 million figure matters too. If NY can stay below that next year, they'll save $50 million in tax in '16, "free money" that will more than pay for Ellsbury and McCann.

 

[60'sfan]

#1 they need CC to be better for sure or else just having him doesn't do all that much. #2 Kuroda is solid and needs to be signed.....Nova is fine and looked real good 2nd half of the year...Pineda is a huge key as well as signing an unknown in Tanaka.........I say get Arroyo for a 13-12 guy eating up innings......4.00 ERA with an improved lineup will be a winner.......

Interesting comment on Bronson Arroyo. He is a free agent and he does gobble up innings. I loved him as a Red Sox and was upset when they traded him to Cincinnati for Wily Mo Pena. I remember posting on this board, "Say It Ain't So, Wily Mo". Bronson will turn 37 in February so he is not longer a spring chicken. Maybe he and Arod can re-in act their dance down the first base line in 2004.

 

[Husky25]

I think the really important question is, What is John Sterling's home run call for him?

"Jacoby jacked one!" seems obvious, but does he also tag on something like "He ellsburied that one in the bleachers!"

Similar to Francisco Cervelli's, probably. Outside of his outlier year, Ellsbury has not hit more than 9 HRs in a single season. His value is his ability to pick'em up and put'em down at a rapid rate.

 

[uconnfan68]

Agreed with Viking (?) on the Cashman / Steinbrenner deal.....no doubt screams overriding Brian as does McCann......think they overpaid both parties but were desperate to out a winning team on the field. The $189M is on it's way out LOL......

But Sox fans I know you weren't doing it purposely but let's admit one thing, NO ONE else was able to throw the dollars out you did to win last year besides the Yanks and Dodgers. Key here is the Sox were more efficient and smarter with theirs although they spent more than anyone to jump from last to first!! But having said that Viking is also right (wtf?) in the fact I like the short term agreements with key pieces to fill in. Plus they have a farm system only the Cards are equal to as far as "ready" players.

I hate the deal but we'll see.......can't imagine him on the Yanks now but I guess a 300ft SHOT in the 9th in April to win a game will help me change!

"looks like hits like Mary, acts like Judas"... just a little tweak on the great line on Johnny Damon.

 

[Danzz]

Last 4 years Ellsbury played 384 games with a WAR of 14.8. Gardner played 470 games with a WAR of 15.7.[/quot
That comes out to less than 100 games a year or missing over a third of a season. Ellsbury does give the Yankees a good leadoff hitter and if Gardner can handle batting 2nd plenty of speed at the top of the lineup. The Yankees overpaid but if I were a Yankee fan my attitude would be "it isn't my money." If they can sign Cano the Yankee lineup is pretty good but pitching will keep them from being in the race in the fall unless they are able to do something. The question marks are Arod and Jeter.

 

[methodology]

Awful contract and yanks just lost cano also. Jacoby is a great player but not a superstar and definitely not worth being the 3rd largest OF contract in history. He has only hit more than 10 hr that ONE year he hit 30 and now people believe he will hit 20 a year, give me a break. He plays great D but he isn't the greatest defensive player. He has elite speed but it on the wrong side of 30. Desperate move by the yanks and probably made knowing Cano was gone.

Kurodo is a FA and believe I heard he wants to go back to the NL but as always it's always about money and the Yankees have the most.

Pineda had shoulder surgery. Pitchers don't come back the same after that it just doesn't happen. For most pitchers shoulder surgery is the end.

Yanks have a lot of holes. It seems to me they expect the arod suspension to be upheld and his contract to come off the books. MLB can't allow that to happen as it allows the Yankees to get a mulligan on that ridiculous contract.

There are still the winter meetings to come and I expect more moves for the Yankees that will paint a clearer picture

 

[Danzz]

Awful contract and yanks just lost cano also. Jacoby is a great player but not a superstar and definitely not worth being the 3rd largest OF contract in history. He has only hit more than 10 hr that ONE year he hit 30 and now people believe he will hit 20 a year, give me a break. He plays great D but he isn't the greatest defensive player. He has elite speed but it on the wrong side of 30. Desperate move by the yanks and probably made knowing Cano was gone.

Kurodo is a FA and believe I heard he wants to go back to the NL but as always it's always about money and the Yankees have the most.

Pineda had shoulder surgery. Pitchers don't come back the same after that it just doesn't happen. For most pitchers shoulder surgery is the end.

Yanks have a lot of holes. It seems to me they expect the arod suspension to be upheld and his contract to come off the books. MLB can't allow that to happen as it allows the Yankees to get a mulligan on that ridiculous contract.

There are still the winter meetings to come and I expect more moves for the Yankees that will paint a clearer picture

"Jacoby is a great player but not a superstar and definitely not worth being the 3rd largest OF contract in history"
None of these players are worth what they are getting but if I'm a Yankee fan, I'm happy with the deal. They will be looking long and hard for pitching. Their problem is they have little to trade in the minors so it will have to be the free agent root and there doesn't appear to be much out there.

 

[Husky25]

At what point do Fans stop talking about money that athletes make. The money is absurd. I know it. You know it. They know it. It's a different world. Just like the world of High powered Corporate CEOs and/or the Hollywood blockbuster actor. No matter how successful, if Jim Carrey make 3 movies in a year he is guaranteed $60 Million plus residuals for about 135 days of work. It is what it is. Who cares? Good for Ellsbury to guarantee himself $25Mil at 37 years old when he probably can't do the same things he could at 29.

The Yankees (Insert any big market team. Just using the Yankees as an example) have a $189 Million player budget...Think about that for a moment: 25 players average $7.56 Million per year...and the Yankees are in the black so all the power to them.

He's my point...Do you think if player payroll was $156 Mil or $125 Mil, that ticket prices would come down? The 20oz beer domestic macrobrew may go from $14 to $13.50, but that's about it...and management would act like they were doing the fan a favor.

I have been a Red Sox fan since I was 7, but I will always like the A's, Twins, and smartly run teams of that ilk, because they are able to find tangible value in players they don't have to "overpay"...

"Jacoby is a great player but not a superstar and definitely not worth being the 3rd largest OF contract in history"
None of these players are worth what they are getting but if I'm a Yankee fan, I'm happy with the deal. They will be looking long and hard for pitching. Their problem is they have little to trade in the minors so it will have to be the free agent root and there doesn't appear to be much out there.

 

[Dove]

I heard on the FAN that the Jacoby signing and the McCann signing were done in time for the big-money ticket packages to be sold.

 

[60'sfan]

At what point do Fans stop talking about money that athletes make. The money is absurd. I know it. You know it. They know it. It's a different world. Just like the world of High powered Corporate CEOs and/or the Hollywood blockbuster actor. No matter how successful, if Jim Carrey make 3 movies in a year he is guaranteed $60 Million plus residuals for about 135 days of work. It is what it is. Who cares? Good for Ellsbury to guarantee himself $25Mil at 37 years old when he probably can't do the same things he could at 29.

The Yankees (Insert any big market team. Just using the Yankees as an example) have a $189 Million player budget...Think about that for a moment: 25 players average $7.56 Million per year...and the Yankees are in the black so all the power to them.

He's my point...Do you think if player payroll was $156 Mil or $125 Mil, that ticket prices would come down? The 20oz beer domestic macrobrew may go from $14 to $13.50, but that's about it...and management would act like they were doing the fan a favor.

I have been a Red Sox fan since I was 7, but I will always like the A's, Twins, and smartly run teams of that ilk, because they are able to find tangible value in players they don't have to "overpay"...

You can add Tampa Bay to that list but the reality is those team don't generally draw the fans. I have been a Red Sox fan since I was seven too but that was 1949. I learned the secret of the Red Sox back in the 60's. Because the ball park was small, all they had to do was give the appearance of having a good team and they would sell out quickly before the season started. I was one of those who used to buy my tickets in January so that I would be guaranteed a seat. When I lived in the area, I would buy tickets for 7 or 8 games a year. Now I live in the San Diego area and because the Padres have no hope, I can wait until the season is well underway before I have to make a commitment. I am sure that all of the tickets for the Sox games will be gone before the season starts.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Bottom line to me is in short term makes the Yanks better and the Sox worse. If you are going to overpay hurting your competitor makes it sting much less. Consider it 15M annual salary and 7M strike against their biggest competitor.

Sox are banking on JB Jr. being ready and comparable over long haul.

 

[Husky25]

You can add Tampa Bay to that list but the reality is those team don't generally draw the fans. I have been a Red Sox fan since I was seven too but that was 1949. I learned the secret of the Red Sox back in the 60's. Because the ball park was small, all they had to do was give the appearance of having a good team and they would sell out quickly before the season started. I was one of those who used to buy my tickets in January so that I would be guaranteed a seat. When I lived in the area, I would buy tickets for 7 or 8 games a year. Now I live in the San Diego area and because the Padres have no hope, I can wait until the season is well underway before I have to make a commitment. I am sure that all of the tickets for the Sox games will be gone before the season starts.

Yeah I forgot Tampa. Good call.

I was a part of a season ticket package from 2000-2004, went to quite few games in 2005 and a handful per year from 2006-2008. It's not like it was a conscience decision but I haven't been to Fenway since 2009. On the other hand, my wife and I travel to other cities once or twice a year to watch the Sox and make a vacation of it. The ballgame costs becomes merely another vacation expense (We were at Todd Helton Appreciation Night this year. Denver and its surroundings is a really nice area).

 

[Husky25]

Bottom line to me is in short term makes the Yanks better and the Sox worse. If you are going to overpay hurting your competitor makes it sting much less. Consider it 15M annual salary and 7M strike against their biggest competitor.

Sox are banking on JB Jr. being ready and comparable over long haul.

Can't really tell. It's not like Ellsbury signed on to the 2013 Yankees. Cano is gone, so how good are the Yankees, really? The Sox have options this year. If Jackie Bradley Jr. doesn't work out, they can move Victorino to center, Gomes to left full time, and Nava in right. If I'm not mistaken, the Yankees are still looking for starting pitching, 3B, 2B, OF, and BP help...oh and Jeter is 40 years old, so at least 50 games at of SS too.

Ellsbury exits the Red Sox lineup, but Victorino can lead off and has speed. They need a 1B (They are hoping Napoli give them matching options and right of 1st refusal), Utl and 5th OF and they have PR flexibility (supposedly). I'd rather have the Red Sox problems than the Yankees.

 

[mauconnfan]

Can't really tell. It's not like Ellsbury signed on to the 2013 Yankees. Cano is gone, so how good are the Yankees, really? The Sox have options this year. If Jackie Bradley Jr. doesn't work out, they can move Victorino to center, Gomes to left full time, and Nava in right. If I'm not mistaken, the Yankees are still looking for starting pitching, 3B, 2B, OF, and BP help...oh and Jeter is 40 years old, so at least 50 games at of SS too.

Ellsbury exits the Red Sox lineup, but Victorino can lead off and has speed. They need a 1B (They are hoping Napoli give them matching options and right of 1st refusal), Utl and 5th OF and they have PR flexibility (supposedly). I'd rather have the Red Sox problems than the Yankees.

I would have never guessed that 25?

 

[Husky25]

That's what being a fan of the defending World Series champs affords me. It is what it is.

But the winter meetings haven't even happened yet, so things could change. Anything is possible.

 

[mauconnfan]

Beltre to 3rd and Phillips to 2nd and we're fine! LOL..........

 

[Dogdeacon]

Can't really tell. It's not like Ellsbury signed on to the 2013 Yankees. Cano is gone, so how good are the Yankees, really? The Sox have options this year. If Jackie Bradley Jr. doesn't work out, they can move Victorino to center, Gomes to left full time, and Nava in right. If I'm not mistaken, the Yankees are still looking for starting pitching, 3B, 2B, OF, and BP help...oh and Jeter is 40 years old, so at least 50 games at of SS too.

Ellsbury exits the Red Sox lineup, but Victorino can lead off and has speed. They need a 1B (They are hoping Napoli give them matching options and right of 1st refusal), Utl and 5th OF and they have PR flexibility (supposedly). I'd rather have the Red Sox problems than the Yankees.

I thought a key Sox advantage last year was their outfield defense with Victorino in left, particularly at Fenway. Also playing RF possibly less work = less injuries for aging Victorino. Regardless, moving him to center highlights why the move made sense for Yanks as you've potentially weakened your rival at TWO positions.

Agree on the flip side that Ellsbury < Cano, but Beltre + Ellsbury is a pretty good reboot by NY.

 

[60'sfan]

Beltre to 3rd and Phillips to 2nd and we're fine! LOL..........

Unless you know something I don't know, I can't see Texas trading Beltre. He played 161 games for them last year and had a solid season. He is signed thru 2015 with an option for 2016. I don't think the Yankees have much to interest the Rangers in a trade. Although, perhaps for $100,000,000 they can get the Rangers to take Arod.

 

[Husky25]

I thought a key Sox advantage last year was their outfield defense with Victorino in left, particularly at Fenway. Also playing RF possibly less work = less injuries for aging Victorino. Regardless, moving him to center highlights why the move made sense for Yanks as you've potentially weakened your rival at TWO positions.

Agree on the flip side that Ellsbury < Cano, but Beltre + Ellsbury is a pretty good reboot by NY.

Victorino was the everyday rightfielder in 2013 and Fenway is generally considered the largest Right Field in the majors and generally more difficult to play than center in other parks. Gomes and Nava platooned in left.

 

[60'sfan]

I thought a key Sox advantage last year was their outfield defense with Victorino in left, particularly at Fenway. Also playing RF possibly less work = less injuries for aging Victorino. Regardless, moving him to center highlights why the move made sense for Yanks as you've potentially weakened your rival at TWO positions.

Agree on the flip side that Ellsbury < Cano, but Beltre + Ellsbury is a pretty good reboot by NY.

The aging Victorino just turned 33. How old are you?