Elam Ending | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Elam Ending

Dream Jobbed 2.0 said:
I think the real way to fix the “problem” is actually calling intentional fouls when you just grab the dude. Make them make a real attempt at the ball.
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Wait wait wait, but the NBA claims it find a good way to even stop hack a Shaq.....so this idea has to obviously be certifiably insane.
 
methodology said:
With these rules Nevada never beats new Mexico January 7 2017. Trailed by 25 in the 2nd half and trailed 87-68 with 3:53 to play. New Mexico led 94-91 with 18 seconds to play (game over with Elam ending). Nevada tied the game at 94 and it went to overtime where Nevada won 105-104
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If this is a choice between a better finish to the game versus losing the occasional Mountian West barnburner, sign me up for the former.
 
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Mark me in favor, only true detriment is lack of OT.

Those worried about buzzer beaters are simply not recognizing that every game ending on a made shot is better. Essentially the same drama and it will occur way more frequently (both via a winning shot and likely more 'either team could win next possession' type games). If you want someone call blow a giant horn whenever the team hits the targeted point total.

Has anyone ever played pickup basketball? A game winning shot occurs every game and this is infinitely better than 1/20 games or whatever ending with some legendary buzzer beater. You test your mettle with who is willing to shoot in those moments and/or who gets the yips. You'd never, ever play pickup on a time-clock and the games would undoubtedly be worse. Some team would score 2 pts then site on the ball and there'd eventually be fisticuffs. I'm not sure if the NCAA or NBA should do this, but absolutely perfect for the NIT and for the TBT, D-league should try it too.
 
intlzncster said:
People leave the Superbowl early. Beating traffic is paramount apparently. People are idiots.
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Touche' but there is some merit for a finite ending. In the old days I was good for as many baseball extra innings as there could be, but on a weeknight these days very limited and even weekend I don't think I'd last past 11 frames. Playoff game in for the duration, but otherwise no.
Sports that have finite 2hr windows are gaining traction & while I know it remains popular, again other than playoffs I never spend 3.5 full hours wathing a football game (DVR). P.S. DVR is one of the reasons basketball might try this and why its becoming a bigger problem.
A. those watching purely taped games FF over commercials, no value in those late game commercial blitzkriegs
B. Those like myself that start games say 30 minutes into it ARE EVEN more frustrated with the last 3-4 minutes than ever before. You can watch an entire game commercial free by starting 20-30 mins late, but its almost impossible to DVR thru the end of game death march.
C. With Elam ending you never miss the end of the game when you DVR

The purpose is not to eliminate overtime, that's a consequence that we are debating the value of losing. However, to lament losing 5 extra minutes of game time and the 15 minutes that takes when you are actually quickening games in general and keeping more folks in their seats until the final bucket is missing the point of the entire creative concept. This would take what too often takes 20+ minutes and make it consistently less than 10 minutes. And you'd have fewer people leaving early so you can spend less energy being frustrated with em' ;)
 
Anyone else take a gut at UConn called "Philosophy of Sports"? The instructor posited that an intentional foul is cheating. I immediately thought that was ridiculous. But my thinking quickly reversed. Intentional fouls are cheating. Intentionally breaking the rules for competitive advantage is cheating, period. That breaking the rules in these situations is expected is a major flaw in the game. It's a flaw that hasn't be able to be fixed to date with the punishment approach. But this flaw is eliminated with the Elam Ending. And by not requiring our student-athletes to cheat, it's the moral choice as well.
 
Waquoit said:
Anyone else take a gut at UConn called "Philosophy of Sports"? The instructor posited that an intentional foul is cheating. I immediately thought that was ridiculous. But my thinking quickly reversed. Intentional fouls are cheating. Intentionally breaking the rules for competitive advantage is cheating, period. That breaking the rules in these situations is expected is a major flaw in the game. It's a flaw that hasn't be able to be fixed to date with the punishment approach. But this flaw is eliminated with the Elam Ending. And by not requiring our student-athletes to cheat, it's the moral choice as well.
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It’s not breaking the rules....
 
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whaler11 said:
It’s not breaking the rules....
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I can't think of any other sport where repeated and constant committing fouls/penalty or other rules violation is such an accepted part of the strategy. We've gotten used to it, the semantics of whether its 'cheating' or not aren't important as it absolutely is not in the spirit of the game.
 
Dogdeacon said:
I can't think of any other sport where repeated and constant committing fouls/penalty or other rules violation is such an accepted part of the strategy. We've gotten used to it, the semantics of whether its 'cheating' or not aren't important as it absolutely is not in the spirit of the game.
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It’s not cheating though.

FWIW soccer has plenty of strategic fouls.

The CFB penalty for DPI rewards the defense at times.

It’s not even gaming the rules. It it was thy would increase the penalties.
 
whaler11 said:
It’s not cheating though.

FWIW soccer has plenty of strategic fouls.

The CFB penalty for DPI rewards the defense at times.

It’s not even gaming the rules. It it was thy would increase the penalties.
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How can your reply to me saying it is semantics be "It's not cheating though" ? That is what I said. 'Strategic fouls' in soccer, football or basketball is definitely 'gaming the rules'; I'd define a strategic foul as 'a purposeful rule violation to force or accept the lesser of two bad outcomes' if that's not gaming the rules we are back to arguing over semantics which thus far eludes your grasp. I can't make a point if you are gaming the rules of grammar solely to further your objectives.

The difference in basketball vs soccer or football is it occurs far more regularly & frequently (multiple plays within a game, a high % of games) and negatively impacts both the time and flow at arguably the most important point of many games. Soccer and football don't have a time loss etc...
 
TBT game I watched recently with the Elam Ending still had a bunch of late fouling by the trailing team. Trailing team was down about 8 points and was well under the team foul limit. They became super aggressive/physical (basically hacking the out of the other team) trying to create turnovers on D hoping the refs might miss a foul call and they would get a turnover as a result. If the ref calls the foul no harm done, game stops, clock stops and leading team gets no free throws and has to inbound the ball. This happened about 5 times in last few minutes. Lots of starts and stops. Did not make for a smooth ending. Did like the game ending shot though.
 
I agree that end-game fouling needs to have more of a consequence.

But the solution needs to involve overtime and clock-management skills. Elam ending takes a lot of that away. Those are integral parts of the game that make it enjoyable to watch for fans like me. This solution feels as gimmicky as advancing the ball to half court (which I hate).

Fouling in the late-game has been incentivized. Start making free throws fellas. Or come up with another solution. 2 free throws and the ball under 2 minutes for each half. Start calling intentional fouls. I don't know.
 
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husky429 said:
I agree that end-game fouling needs to have more of a consequence.

But the solution needs to involve overtime and clock-management skills. Elam ending takes a lot of that away. Those are integral parts of the game that make it enjoyable to watch for fans like me. This solution feels as gimmicky as advancing the ball to half court (which I hate).

Fouling in the late-game has been incentivized. Start making free throws fellas. Or come up with another solution. 2 free throws and the ball under 2 minutes for each half. Start calling intentional fouls. I don't know.
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The last two minutes of a game is little more than sloth . We all know how it's going to end, but it's painful to watch.

(Yes, in graduate school I was tortured with a video and presentation on sloth reproduction. The only thing that made it bearable was the girl behind me moaning, "faaaaaastuuuuuuur, faaaaastuuuuur ..." during the video)
 
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temery said:
The last two minutes of a game is little more than sloth . We all know how it's going to end, but it's painful to watch.

(Yes, in graduate school I was tortured with a video and presentation on sloth reproduction. The only thing that made it bearable was the girl behind me moaning, "faaaaaastuuuuuuur, faaaaastuuuuur ..." during the video)
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I've got a lot of questions.
Was she good looking (not the sloth, the girl behind you)?
If so what was your follow-up line?
I'm thinking either:
1) So you like it faster than sloths do?
2) You think that's slow love making, I will make you beg
 
husky429 said:
I agree that end-game fouling needs to have more of a consequence.

But the solution needs to involve overtime and clock-management skills. Elam ending takes a lot of that away. Those are integral parts of the game that make it enjoyable to watch for fans like me. This solution feels as gimmicky as advancing the ball to half court (which I hate).

Fouling in the late-game has been incentivized. Start making free throws fellas. Or come up with another solution. 2 free throws and the ball under 2 minutes for each half. Start calling intentional fouls. I don't know.
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I disagree it “needs” that. Especially in the nba where you have that ridiculous advance the ball after a time out rule.
 
Dogdeacon said:
I've got a lot of questions.
Was she good looking (not the sloth, the girl behind you)?
If so what was your follow-up line?
I'm thinking either:
1) So you like it faster than sloths do?
2) You think that's slow love making, I will make you beg
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The entire section was laughing too hard to notice anything else.
 
I saw them use this in that TBT Tournament - I liked it. The NIT needs juice. Love the idea.
 
husky429 said:
come up with another solution. 2 free throws and the ball under 2 minutes for each half. Start calling intentional fouls. I don't know.
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let's say they do that. teams will not foul right? so then the other team just kills the clock, making the games less competitive, less compelling, and more likely to be turned off (or fans leaving early). We're now just waiting for the team to kill the shot clock, and shorten the game.

With the Elam ending, fouling is penalized (as it should be) but more importantly, the incentive to foul is removed. Your suggestion of making the penalty even more harsh would make teams less likely to foul, but it would also make the end of games less compelling.

With Elam, good defense/rebounding/good offense are rewarded. And that's far more compelling than free throw shooting contests.
 
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Great Elam ending example in TBT semis.

Team Jimmer down 4 (or 5?) starting Elam. Other team gets within 2 of target, Jimmers get a few stops, cuts it to 2 behind (4 off target), gets a fast break. Jimmer misses a contested layup to tie it (2 off), other team goes back the other way and gets a transition dunk to win it.

Fun.

If non-Elam, Jimmer's team would have been fouling (especially after missed layup) and it would have added 10 minutes of real time. Instead we got nice, quick, game-winning dunk.
 
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