Edsall confident UConn football program heading in right direction (Gavin Keefe @ The Day)

[uconndogs]

Our offers and recruiting concentration are now down south as oppose to Pa, NJ, NY, CT and MA. We will see if that strategy works? Recruiting is more than handing out offers, it’s also clearing the Admissions Office of pseudo Ivy League standards that the Ivy League doesn’t even follow for football players. We needed a dozen transfers or JUCOs with 6-8 with high impact and so far we are running a significant deficit.

Oh good lord!

 

[Exit 4]

Pudge is still living in a mid-2000s world where the internet and social media played no role in players’ recruiting trajectories. Any attempt to convince him otherwise is a waste of time.

Pudge makes some good points time to time. He's particularly knowledgeable about the Randy 1.0 era. But yeah, he and I have had this back and forth for a while now about life in the current Randy 2.0 era. It has changed. Every program is casting a much bigger net. Every program is looking at far more prospects. Instant high quality video and shear hyper competitiveness have made it impossible to hide recruiting gems on a shelf out of view.

Plus, culturally the kids - through social media - can make the recruiting process much more fun as it is easy to humble brag and get feedback on offers as they happen. In the Randy 1.0 era kids didn't get the instant feedback from the public when some newspaper and football chat board mentioned their offer sheet.

Today collecting offers has become an instant gratification sport... not the same in the 1.0 era.

 

[Devland]

I didn't read the whole thread, yet, so sorry if someone else has thrown this thought out there. It has been my belief that this is a harder sell to recruits the second time around for Randy. The first time the sell was "Come be a part of an up and coming program, a team making a big step up from D1AA to D1A. A team moving into a brand new stadium." There was some excitement to sell. What is the selling point now? "Come help rescue us from this dumpster fire. Help us return to respectability. Help us not be an embarrassment on the field."

 

[Exit 4]

I didn't read the whole thread, yet, so sorry if someone else has thrown this thought out there. It has been my belief that this is a harder sell to recruits the second time around for Randy. The first time the sell was "Come be a part of an up and coming program, a team making a big step up from D1AA to D1A. A team moving into a brand new stadium." There was some excitement to sell. What is the selling point now? "Come help rescue us from this dumpster fire. Help us return to respectability. Help us not be an embarrassment on the field."

The selling point is the coaching staff itself and the opportunity to play. Kids signing up now believe in the staff and believe UConn gives them the best chance to play. A UConn education is not to shabby either.

 

[Pudge]

LOL - Me spouting off - when I backed up my statement by hard numbers while you presented a theory or opinion.

You did nothing. Seems like you’ve suddenly spent a year watching.

I can cite stats & numbers & stories since 2002. Nothing special. I’m not the only one. But the Ryan Griffin, Kendall Reyes, Alfred Fincher, Danny Murray stories will be replicated. It’s about relationships. It’s now about the careful data base research we do now which is unlike 15 years ago.

They go south ... because that’s the time to do it. They count on Camps to get a good slice every year. All NE & PA & NJ & Upstate NY kids. Smattering of others.

 

[Pudge]

Pudge is still living in a mid-2000s world where the internet and social media played no role in players’ recruiting trajectories. Any attempt to convince him otherwise is a waste of time.

See where we are in September. Watch the visits through October.

Saying we don’t have the emphasis on NE & The Northeast is dumb. Do you think we just lose to BC & Michigan today? We evaluate kids in our region ... they might be 2 Stars ... but we develop for high college careers & often kids went NFL.

There’s some notion that we lose because we don’t get the regions 3 & 4 Stars. Baloney. We’ve got Orlovsky and a few others. We take raw kids and build them. That’s what PP & BD failed. Nobody is going to turn us into Iowa while off the P5 platform.

We have a narrow path to succeed.

 

[Pudge]

Under what definition are we very strong in New England? We struggle to get more than 2 to 3 kids out of the top 20-30 in each of MA/CT/NY. BC is very strong (hurts to say). Rutty does pretty well in NJ of course. The B1G, ND, Syracuse and Clemson seem to take what doesn't end up at BC. Hopefully in 5 years we can say we are very strong in NE, but I dont see what grounds we have to make such a statement right now.

And while I have no problem with the football recruiting/operations staff at UConn, there is absolutely nothing going on with this administration to suggest we are out doing anyone on data mining for recruits. Its hyper competitive out there. All the programs are running deep data mining and turning over more stones than ever. There is nothing to suggest we have some sort of advantage or a special database that no one else as built.

This is just humorous.

Not Scott Lutrus. Not Alfred Fincher. Not Smallwood. Not Reyes. Not Danny Murray. Not Ryan Krug. Not Tyler King. Not Danny Lansanah. Not Ryan Griffin. Not Tim Lassen. Not Zach Hurd. Not Lou Allen. Not Anthony Sherman. Not Mike Ryan. Not Will Beatty. Not Marcus Easley.
Etc

We don’t show up on Top 30 lists often. Nervous Nellies miss out on waiting for some social media confirmation. We are in a region that doesn’t give out enough information. The stupid Rivals etc evaluations never saw kids.

The only difference today - Prep Schools. We only had Milford Academy 15 years ago. For the academic challenges.

This is just your way of whining. I’m eager to see a lot of good stories Post Camp.

 

[Stainmaster]

This is just humorous.

Not Scott Lutrus. Not Alfred Fincher. Not Smallwood. Not Reyes. Not Danny Murray. Not Ryan Krug. Not Tyler King. Not Danny Lansanah. Not Ryan Griffin. Not Tim Lassen. Not Zach Hurd. Not Lou Allen. Not Anthony Sherman. Not Mike Ryan. Not Will Beatty. Not Marcus Easley.
Etc

We don’t show up on Top 30 lists often. Nervous Nellies miss out on waiting for some social media confirmation. We are in a region that doesn’t give out enough information. The stupid Rivals etc evaluations never saw kids.

The only difference today - Prep Schools. We only had Milford Academy 15 years ago. For the academic challenges.

This is just your way of whining. I’m eager to see a lot of good stories Post Camp.

This entire post confirms that you are living in the past. Believe it or not, there are a different set of parameters governing the scouting of HS players, particularly those in the northeast. Some of your assertions here are just patently untrue.

Nobody is stopping you from acclaiming the RE 1.0 regime’s ability to recruit under-the-radar kids. When you extrapolate all of that to the present with no justification besides wanting to feel warm and fuzzy inside, don’t be surprised when people push back.

 

[Pudge]

This entire post confirms that you are living in the past. Believe it or not, there are a different set of parameters governing the scouting of HS players, particularly those in the northeast. Some of your assertions here are just patently untrue.

Nobody is stopping you from acclaiming the RE 1.0 regime’s ability to recruit under-the-radar kids. When you extrapolate all of that to the present with no justification besides wanting to feel warm and fuzzy inside, don’t be surprised when people push back.

Baloney

 

[Pudge]

This was Chief stating WE were exploring & recruiting too much in the South.

You all can hang with Chief. I believe we have a good feeling for everyone we should be recruiting in our backyard. We will replicate what we’ve done ... sprinkle in a bunch of speed from the South. OLine will be 80% Northeast - DBs 50% FL or GA.

Film. Data base. Relationships.

I stand by my comments. We will have 7-9 Committed by Sept. online guys like R Brown identified and watched through early 4 games of HS. The formula is slightly changed.

 

[freescooter]

He says it because people have been turned off to the team and he feels he needs to explain what he walked into. The kids aren't stupid- they know they were overmatched. I spoke to one of our better players who said he loved playing as a freshman but was not ready for it.

Regarding Maryland, RE had to rebuild because many kids had off field issues and he was brought in to clean that up and remain competitive. One year he was down to his 5th string QB if I remember correctly. No one since he has left has done much with the program. Not sure RE is to squarely to blame for Terps problems.

Bottom line, UConn is a massive rebuild, the worst is behind us but now we need to see better for fans sake.

I think Randy got a kind of raw deal at Maryland. Fridge was successful up to a point but basically took borderline criminals. Some real ones iirc. Edsall came to clean that up and was making progress. He had the boat heading in the right direction and had gotten back to a bowl when they decided to move up in class to the Big 10. Say what you will while Clemson is on another level the east of the ACC is just not that good. Never has been. Remember when FSU was at the top of its game the Noles went something like 7 seasons before losing an ACC game and another 5 before losing a second. It has never been much of a football league and it still isn’t. The move to the Big 10 was as much of a setback competitively to Maryland as it was to Rutgers and Randy lacked the talent. Michigan Ohio State Michigan St et al just have better players than UNC NC State BC

 

[Exit 4]

I'm still looking for explanation of "very strong" in New England. Strength is a relative measure and accordingly I don't see how we are can be considered strong when compared to our FBS peers. We are not above average.

Looking at the past two years:

We offered around 135 scholarships per Medic's tracker (netted for PWOs) and landed about 21 scholarship kids.
2019: New England offers that missed:

• Jaquan Allen to Villanova.
• Taisun Phommachanh to Clemson
• Jack Stewart to Michigan
• Malachi Burby to Rutty
• Tyler Rudolph to Penn St
• Marquis Wilson to Penn St
• Cornelius Johnson to Michigan
• Bryce Sebastian to BC
• Sainristll to Michigan
• Niadre Zouzoua to Baylor
• David Summers to Syracuse <--word is we never offered - strange if true..,kid was left dangling by Maryland....has an Orlovsky type story potential.
• Igwenagu to Rutty
• Truss to Georgia

2019 New England offers that hit:

• Winston Jules - no known P6 offers
• Jackson Mitchell - no known P6 offers
• Dillon Harris - how to score Dillon- his offers were received over 3 years. Numerous P6.

We offered around 169 scholarships per Medic's tracker (netted for PWOs) and landed about 27 scholarship kids.
2018: New England offers that missed:

• Nick Heckel to Yale.
• Rondell Bothroyd to WF
• Will Levis to Penn State
• Bobby Haskins to UVA
• Luke Schoonmaker to Michigan

2018 New England offers that hit:

• Kevon Jones - BC offer
• Travis Jones - Rutty, BCand Temple offerred
• Oneil Robinson - no known P6 offers
• Khyon Gillespie - no known P6 offers
• Elijah Jefferson - no known P6 offers
• Jonathan Pace - no known P6 offers
• Jeremy Lucien - no known P6 offers

And consider this, Randy doesn't extend offers to kids he doesn't think he has a chance at. There were a lot of kids he kicked the tires on that he never offered - probably because he didn't like the odds.

 

[Exit 4]

Film. Data base. Relationships.

Right, no one else has Film. No one else has a Database. No one else has relationships.

Are you serious that this is a secret magic formula? You really don't have your eyes open to the fact absolutely every school has every bit the same level of investment in all three. We are not ahead.

And really on relationships, with Randy that is certainly a mixed bag. He doesn't get along with everyone. He has a bit of head start on some coaches because he has been at this so long here on the east coast.

Lets stick to Randy's core skill...getting the most out of people when he has them for a full four or five years. He is indeed proven to be a good coach to kids that want to be coached and are committed to improvement. He also has high integrity and a good heart for kids that make the effort.

I'm not looking to argue against Randy, just looking to be real about Randy and recruiting....he doesn't have a magic database, secret film study process and special relationships.

 

[UConnJim]

If you go back to the Big East days, when UConn was having good seasons, we never got the highly recruited kids out of Connecticut or Massachusetts. Top 10 recruits from CT and Mass by year signed by UConn:

2007: CT: #5, MA: #6, #7 and #9
2008: CT: #5 and #8. MA: #5 and #6
2009: CT: #5, #7, and #9. MA: #8 and #9.
2010: CT: #10. MA: #3 and #6.

2016: CT: #6. MA: #3 and #7.
2017: CT: none. MA: #8.
2018: CT: #7, #9, #10. MA: #9.
2019: CT: none. MA: none.

2019 seems to be off the trend as 2018 looked like past Big East classes. We'll see what happens in 2020.

One thing to remember. In 2011, the NCAA limited schools to 25 signees per season, although you can manipulate that number with grey shirts, early enrollees, etc. This should mean more players are available for the non-top 25 schools, not less. I would think top schools would have been more willing to take an under the radar kid as you can bring them in and then kick them out if they don't develop. In 2008, here were the largest class sizes: Miami 32, Alabama 32, Nebraska 32, Kansas St. 32, Virginia Tech 31, Ole Miss 30, Auburn 30.

If you go back to the early 70s, I don't think there were scholarship restrictions. In 1973, Pitt had 76 recruits! (Pitt was 1-10 in 1972 and was 12-0 and ranked #1 in 1976. The large recruiting class turned around Pitt's football program.) The NCAA enacted the 95/30 rule which limited annual football scholarships to 30 starting in 1974 and 95 starting in 1978. Schools signed all kinds of players back in the day and they were able to find them. (And this was before Rivals, 24/7, HUDL, and Twitter!)

End of the day, I think Edsall's strategy of recruiting based on speed and projections and then developing the players is still a sound strategy today given UConn has not been able to recruit 4*s and 5*s, even with recruiting tapes all over the web. The problem with his strategy is that it is a multiple year rebuild and the fan base is not patient after the previous 2 regimes.

 

[Pudge]

So Exit 4 ... your Net Net is kids we choose (regardless of time of commitment or lack of information) are lesser than the ones promoted by their own loud twitter posts

Kids lie. Offers aren’t really offers. At least committable. And you don’t have Perfect Information.

Your response is impressive.

But ...

The obvious thing is Prep. Far bigger part of the whole than at any point; and increasing. 12-15 years ago, it was really only Milford Academy - and we didn’t play in the pool of lesser grades. Many of the kids who committed were prep. Playing at a far higher platform.

I simply don’t believe you have an accurate picture.

Case in point: Jonathan Pace. I know for a fact he had lots of offers and interest. Solid prospect. And probably did not get far more offers because of the path to his UConn offer whereby he foreclosed others.

I get it. You think you have Perfect Information. Stock market guys think that too. Then ZOOM ... someone gets super returns on an unknown. In New England & in UConn, you have one of the oddest recruitment narrative of most any FBS. You’ve made the point: we can do far better. We are missing on kids we should have a solid shot

 

[Stainmaster]

So Exit 4 ... your Net Net is kids we choose (regardless of time of commitment or lack of information) are lesser than the ones promoted by their own loud twitter posts

Kids lie. Offers aren’t really offers. At least committable. And you don’t have Perfect Information.

This is just nonsense upon nonsense upon nonsense.

 

[whaler11]

All I know is this: The season starts in like 90 days and every single flag is red.

Not magenta or maroon. Red so hot it burns your retinas if you dare even look at it.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Oh good lord!

That's a solid daily dose of Chiefin'

 

[Rocktheworld]

All I know is this: The season starts in like 90 days and every single flag is red.

Not magenta or maroon. Red so hot it burns your retinas if you dare even look at it.

There's a cranberry red joke I'd like but am unable to put together cleverly

 

[uconnyankee]

Here’s what I would say. We do have some players this year that can do some things with the ball in their hands. We didn’t have much of that last year. Now how much that lends to the win column? No clue.
Why people are optimistic for a better season: defense is a year older/stronger/experienced. We have a few playmakers. Perhaps we have a QB that can stand in the pocket and deliver the ball to likes of Brown, Ross (frosh), Maurisseau...potentially aggressive LB’s in Morgan and Harris. Art Thomkins and Mensah can provide a good run balance
O Line
Upgrade in coaches

Why not be slightly optimistic for improvement?

If memory serves, I think we won a total of 1 game last year. I said 2 wins is a reality.
That is 'slightly optimistic for improvement' no? And, I said that the games would be more competitive.
Just not sure that translates to wins at this point.

There is more to measuring progress than W's and L's. Last year, if the better teams wanted, they could have put up more points. Many teams called off the dogs early in the 2nd half once they were up 30-40 points.
There was nothing the defense could do. It was boys vs men.

I don't see that doing a complete 180 in one season. I am looking forward to seeing some progress and who takes the next step on this team. I want this program to turn the corner as bad as the next. Just don't see it happening next year. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[Hornet22]

If memory serves, I think we won a total of 1 game last year. I said 2 wins is a reality.
That is 'slightly optimistic for improvement' no? And, I said that the games would be more competitive.
Just not sure that translates to wins at this point.

There is more to measuring progress than W's and L's. Last year, if the better teams wanted, they could have put up more points. Many teams called off the dogs early in the 2nd half once they were up 30-40 points.
There was nothing the defense could do. It was boys vs men.

I don't see that doing a complete 180 in one season. I am looking forward to seeing some progress and who takes the next step on this team. I want this program to turn the corner as bad as the next. Just don't see it happening next year. I hope I'm wrong.

All fair points.
All I want to see is for the team to compete for four quarters. If that happens I do believe a few wins will follow. Just not sure how many at this point. I too am not hawking the win/loss column in the middle of a massive rebuild. That would be fandom suicide.
Just compete fellas!

 

[Bubba1957]

Let's talk wins and losses. I've applied advanced cyber metrics to the schedule and have come up with the following results:

Wagner W 42-14
Illinois W 32-30
Indiana W 21-19
UCF. L 39-50
USF W 32-30
Tulane W 42-21
Houston L 28-35
UMass W 62-0
Navy W 35-21
Cincinnati. W 28-27
ECU W 42-10
Temple W 21-20

Comes to 10-2. By virtue of their upset victory over USF and USF's win against Bama, they will be declared the unofficial national champions, giving the AAC the crown 2 of the last 3 years. These advanced metrics are undeniable and should be taken as "word".

 

[uconndogs]

Let's talk wins and losses. I've applied advanced cyber metrics to the schedule and have come up with the following results:

Wagner W 42-14
Illinois W 32-30
Indiana W 21-19
UCF. L 39-50
USF W 32-30
Tulane W 42-21
Houston L 28-35
UMass W 62-0
Navy W 35-21
Cincinnati. W 28-27
ECU W 42-10
Temple W 21-20

Comes to 10-2. By virtue of their upset victory over USF and USF's win against Bama, they will be declared the unofficial national champions, giving the AAC the crown 2 of the last 3 years. These advanced metrics are undeniable and should be taken as "word".

I don’t know how you can question cyber metrics. Should be a good bowl!

 

[Husky68]

All good offenses start with the Offensive Line. The young guys will now be juniors and Peart is a senior. They are all stronger and in better shape. Build it out from there. Thompkins will give us something that Mensah isn't (a burner out of the backfield) and the receivers are relatively new and hopefully can get separation from DB's and make YAC happen. Tight end is short on depth but everyone has been touting Jay Rose from his time in High School- let's see what happens. Key is QB - Pindell was not a good passer. He ran because that is what he was best at and was easier than going through progressions. I like Beaudry and tape- let's see if it translates to field.

The OL were not "that" young last year. Why would Pert the senior be so much better than the junior version? Don't buy the switch from LT to RT being so difficult. Lose senior center. 2018 year end OL did not play as well as "individual" assessment of players would suggest (Pert being NFL talent, his being beat out for LT by a young player, senior center with lot of reps) and have same guys (less center) and same coach (who is now diluted by being OC). Best way for OL to look better is QB is better passer and, as you say, unlike Pindell can get the ball out of his hands quickly.
HCRE2.0 will manage offense (think new OC will be asserting "his" system) to protect defense and it will have the exact opposite effect. UConn scored 22 points per game in 2018 (19 if take out 56 points against FCS team out of total), what's your "need to average xx" points against FBS teams in 2019 number.

 

[Husky68]

The selling point is the coaching staff itself and the opportunity to play. Kids signing up now believe in the staff and believe UConn gives them the best chance to play. A UConn education is not to shabby either.

The only thing HCRE2.0 sells is himself. If players recruited for 2017, 2018 and 2019 came for the coaching staffs in place when they were recruited they would have all pretty much transferred by now. Not many P5 schools with shabby educations (especially given what passes for college education now) and lot of other non P5 schools with good fits for the "non P5 talent" UConn is competing for have good education.
HCRE2.0 needs to execute on the recruiting trail and keep his eye discipline on recruitable players/regions.