Duke’s Celeste Taylor Enters Transfer Portal | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Duke’s Celeste Taylor Enters Transfer Portal

triaddukefan said:
Was setting up to be a wonderful night, just finished grilling (charcoal) some burgers, chicken, and scallops.... Was settled in for a night of Survivor and Fear Factor, figured lemme log on to the BY for a few minutes for some juicy transfer news. Logged on, then logged off.. Let out a groan and grabbed a pillow
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One of the takeaways from your experience: Careful what we ask for when we log on to the BY for some "juicy transfer news"
 
I've followed the Celeste Taylor roundabout since her H.S. recruiting days and her excellent "glue style" approach to the U.S.A. National teams.

She turned down a chance to go pro this year, even with a good chance of being a first rounder. But that obviously changed: hard stop. Why? To me, a few things and they're all interrelated.

  • Winston Grandy left to take over the Assc. Head Coaching Job at S.. Carolina. As the local paper, the Observer noted: "Earlier in the 2022-23 season, head coach Kara Lawson described how Gandy worked closely with the Duke guards. Notably, both members of the starting backcourt, Shayeann Day-Wilson and Taylor, are transferring from the program."
  • Taylor wanted to work with Grandy to improve her lot for the 2024 draft and if he stuck at Duke, fine. But if he went somewhere else, hmmm? And that somewhere is working for Dawn Staley? Whew!
  • She'll have a chance to keep working with Gandy -- is fhe goes to S. Carolina -- and also work with Staley.

BTW, I'm sure she's got that DuKe undergrad degree. Congrats. This seems like an extra year out of h.s. that lacrosse players take to firm up the skills and the GPA for the next step.
 
hoophuskee said:
You think the difference between 30% from 3 is miniscule vs 35%?

It's equivalent to a 45% 2pt shooter vs a 52.5% 2 pt shooter.

However maybe her passing, her Defense, her rebounding from the position, and leadership can make it up. Though I don't know her game. But if you or others say-so fine by me.
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That's one of the problems with analytics, it can have little to no relevance to reality when it isn't given any context.
Most players never attempt anywhere near 100 three point shots over an entire season.
All else being equal, even if 2 players did take 100 3 PT shots each, the difference between 30% & 35% would be like scoring 1 extra 3 pointer every 7th game in a 35 game season for 15 more points during the season or 5 buckets.
The baskets may not have even mattered, and who knows what the spacing of the games were when the points were actually scored.
It's more important when a player makes their baskets rather than how many they make over the course of a season.
Look at how many 3 pointers that Jasmine Carson made during the NC game for LSU.
She could have averaged the lowest number of 3 pointers on the LSU team, but her buckets sure made a difference during the crunch time of a NC.
That's the sign of a player that can step up, and not the % of 3 pointers that Caitlin Clark made all year. long.
Statistics don't win games, but players do.
 
Last edited:
We can thank the NCAA for their lack of consistancy and draconian rules for this. They went from one extreme to the other. They should have had the one free transfer for a players first two years in a program in place right from the start. However, these mass transfers have often kept many players from having a chance to develop. The are recruited over with vet players so they end up sitting on the bench and never get a chance to show what they can do. It also makes many programs nothing but rookie camps for high profile ones who can grab players once they have developed and proved themselves. It makes it not only difficult for coaches in respect to planning how to use scholarships, but also recruits. It makes it hard for high school players to pick programs that correspond with oppenings for playing time. They can be recruited over not just with players out of high school but also vets who they will have no chance to compete against.

The extra elegibility for the covid year soon being gone will not eliminate the transfer issue. The cat is out of the bag and WCBB will never be the same. I think this will lose many fans who will just no longer be able to identify with teams that are constantly in flux. I know my fandom has waved already. WCBB can not afford to lose its fanbase. Team consistency is one factor that it still had over the men who were constantly being depleated by early professional entry player losses. WCBB does not nor never did have a large school fan base. Most fans were older generation basketball fans who had given up on the direction of the mens game. Thanks NCAA.
 
sun said:
That's one of the problems with analytics, it can have little to no relevance to reality when it isn't given any context.
Most players never attempt anywhere near 100 three point shots over an entire season.
All else being equal, even if 2 players did take 100 3 PT shots each, the difference between 30% & 35% would be like scoring 1 extra 3 pointer every 7th game in a 35 game season for 15 more points during the season or 5 buckets.
The baskets may not have even mattered, and who knows what the spacing of the games were when the points were actually scored.
It's more important when a player makes their baskets rather than how many they make over the course of a season.
Look at how many 3 pointers that Jasmine Carson made during the NC game for LSU.
She could have averaged the lowest number of 3 pointers on the LSU team, but her buckets sure made a difference during the crunch time of a NC.
That's the sign of a player that can step up, and not the % of 3 pointers that Caitlin Clark made all year. long.
Statistics don't win games, but players do.
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Who’s to say the 35% shooter from 3 doesn't shoot better relative to their % in closer games than the 30% shooter? But your point about 3pt% in regard to when they make them holds true then for every stat. For example, even for 2pt shooter and even ft shooters. It matters when they make shots too if that is the standard you want to hold to. So why not throw away all the stats then becuase other than deep-dive analytics, who has those stats?

Secondly, EFG% is no more "Analytics" than FG%. If one is then so is the other. At the end of the day the coach will review how his/her team shot the ball. And there is a difference between 45% and 52.5%. But again as you previously said - the player can do other things to make up for it. It matters to the degree. We agree on that? A player that talkes a lot of 3's vs a player who takes a few as an example.
 
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oldude said:
Hate to beat a man when he’s down. But what are your thoughts about Associate HC Winston Gandy leaving Durham for SC?
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It's a great move for him. Gandy is a young and up and coming coach. He get's a boost in pay, and gets to learn under one of the top coaches in WCBB. I'm sure he has head coach aspirations, and getting to learn under varied coaches, Frese, Langley, Lawson, and now Staley is a good way to go.

Obviously I hate to see him go, but its completely understandable. Seemingly nothing positive has happened for us (Duke) since the beginning of March. When it rains, it pours :( Every day I'm afraid to log onto Twitter







Cedar said:
You and your partner might want to avoid the chocolate. Consumer Reports found lead and cadmium in dark chocolate.

Consumer Reports article
Consumer Reports petition
NPR article
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I sent this to her. In retrospect, I guess its a good thing she only gave 1/4 of the bar. :eek::eek::eek:
 
Plebe said:
One of the takeaways from your experience: Careful what we ask for when we log on to the BY for some "juicy transfer news"
Expand ...

As the legendary coach JP McCallie used to say... Lesson Learned (or something like that) :oops:

Think I'd better stick to the food and music threads
 
Cedar said:
You and your partner might want to avoid the chocolate. Consumer Reports found lead and cadmium in dark chocolate.

Consumer Reports article
Consumer Reports petition
NPR article
Expand ...
What foods are high in lead cadmium?

One or both of these metals have been found in various foods including baby foods (made with carrots, peaches, pears, sweet potatoes), dietary supplements, vitamins, protein powders, seaweed snacks, ginger cookies, packaged peaches/pears, various fruit juices, as well as chocolate.

www.asyousow.org

Lead and Cadmium in Food FAQs — As You Sow

The Most Frequently Asked Questions As You Sow gets About Cadmium in Food and Lead in Your Favorite Chocolate
www.asyousow.org www.asyousow.org
 
Dillon77 said:
She turned down a chance to go pro this year, even with a good chance of being a first rounder. But that obviously changed: hard stop. Why? To me, a few things and they're all interrelated.

  • Winston Grandy left to take over the Assc. Head Coaching Job at S.. Carolina. As the local paper, the Observer noted: "Earlier in the 2022-23 season, head coach Kara Lawson described how Gandy worked closely with the Duke guards. Notably, both members of the starting backcourt, Shayeann Day-Wilson and Taylor, are transferring from the program."
  • Taylor wanted to work with Grandy to improve her lot for the 2024 draft and if he stuck at Duke, fine. But if he went somewhere else, hmmm? And that somewhere is working for Dawn Staley? Whew!
  • She'll have a chance to keep working with Gandy -- is if he goes to S. Carolina -- and also work with Staley.

BTW, I'm sure she's got that DuKe undergrad degree. Congrats. This seems like an extra year out of h.s. that lacrosse players take to firm up the skills and the GPA for the next step.
Expand ...
Day-Wilson's stats dropped significantly from her freshman season. You'd think she'd want completely different coaching from the past 2 seasons with Gandy. Taylor's stats remained pretty steady the last 2 seasons; still, most players would have wanted to see their stats improve their senior season.

goduke.com

Shayeann Day-Wilson - 2022-23 - Women's Basketball - Duke University

Shayeann Day-Wilson (30) Guard - CAREER HONORS: ACC Freshman of the Year (Head Coaches - 2021-22) All-ACC Freshman Team (2021-22) USBWA National Freshman of ...
goduke.com goduke.com


goduke.com

Celeste Taylor - 2022-23 - Women's Basketball - Duke University

Celeste Taylor (0) Guard - CAREER HONORS: 2022-23 ACC Defensive Player of the Year 2022-23 All-ACC First Team 2022-23 ACC All-Defensive Team 2022-23 All-ACC ...
goduke.com goduke.com
 
Not sure how well this observation will be taken by some on this forum, but Kara Lawson is starting to remind me of Brenda Frese but without the NCAAT or the Final Fours…lots of star transfers out and lots of transfers in, lots of assistants leaving and new assistants having to come in, and seemingly winning regardless.
 
DefenseBB said:
Not sure how well this observation will be taken by some on this forum, but Kara Lawson is starting to remind me of Brenda Frese but without the NCAAT or the Final Fours…lots of star transfers out and lots of transfers in, lots of assistants leaving and new assistants having to come in, and seemingly winning regardless.
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One NCAA bid in three seasons . . .
 
.-.
sun said:
That's one of the problems with analytics, it can have little to no relevance to reality when it isn't given any context.
Most players never attempt anywhere near 100 three point shots over an entire season.
All else being equal, even if 2 players did take 100 3 PT shots each, the difference between 30% & 35% would be like scoring 1 extra 3 pointer every 7th game in a 35 game season for 15 more points during the season or 5 buckets.
The baskets may not have even mattered, and who knows what the spacing of the games were when the points were actually scored.
It's more important when a player makes their baskets rather than how many they make over the course of a season.
Look at how many 3 pointers that Jasmine Carson made during the NC game for LSU.
She could have averaged the lowest number of 3 pointers on the LSU team, but her buckets sure made a difference during the crunch time of a NC.
That's the sign of a player that can step up, and not the % of 3 pointers that Caitlin Clark made all year. long.
Statistics don't win games, but players do.
Expand ...
Regardless of how the total PPG production comes out in the wash, defenses will defend a 30 % shooter differently from how they defend a 35 % shooter. And that makes a difference for the rest of that shooter's teammates.
 
southie said:
Day-Wilson's stats dropped significantly from her freshman season. You'd think she'd want completely different coaching from the past 2 seasons with Gandy. Taylor's stats remained pretty steady the last 2 seasons; still, most players would have wanted to see their stats improve their senior season.

goduke.com

Shayeann Day-Wilson - 2022-23 - Women's Basketball - Duke University

Shayeann Day-Wilson (30) Guard - CAREER HONORS: ACC Freshman of the Year (Head Coaches - 2021-22) All-ACC Freshman Team (2021-22) USBWA National Freshman of ...
goduke.com goduke.com


goduke.com

Celeste Taylor - 2022-23 - Women's Basketball - Duke University

Celeste Taylor (0) Guard - CAREER HONORS: 2022-23 ACC Defensive Player of the Year 2022-23 All-ACC First Team 2022-23 ACC All-Defensive Team 2022-23 All-ACC ...
goduke.com goduke.com
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I'm not sure how much higher the ceiling is for Taylor on offense. She throws so much energy into all aspects of defense, 50-50's, etc., that you often wonder how much is left for consistent shot production. Listen, it may be a complete coincidence that she chose to announce her entry into the portal as the same day Gandy announced his resignation. But, if Gandy is at S.C. and Taylor follows, I'll let my points from the other post hold.

Day-Wilson was a frosh who took the world by storm when Lawson was getting the lay of the land. Duke landed a Top 16 this year, with Day-Wilson being part of the gang on a defense-oriented approach. Day-Wilson, as has been noted, is very on top of her own brand, which depends big time on her performing on the court. Like you said, I think she's in search of a coach/place that will give her the full reins that she had frosh year.

Stay tuned.
 
hoopsfan22 said:
I'd be in favor in getting rid of the Covid year at this point. Few of the top players you'd really want to have back for an extra season are using it anyway. It was fine to let players who were seniors in 2020 and robbed of their last full season or a chance at a championship to get an extra year, but it's hard for me to feel the same way about someone that was a freshman or sophomore in 2020.
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So your thinking is that only seniors in 2020 were robbed of a year of development, enjoyment and experience? Sorry, but that is a very short-sided view and thankfully one the NCAA disagrees with.
 
Gordo said:
So your thinking is that only seniors in 2020 were robbed of a year of development, enjoyment and experience? Sorry, but that is a very short-sided view and thankfully one the NCAA disagrees with.
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They were not robbed of a year of development. The entire regular season was played as Covid wasn't a thing until mid-March. A minority of players missed out on a few extra hours of playing time. That's it. And for that we extend them an entire free season which has been disruptive to roster management/recruiting? Like I said I could see seniors because it was their last shot at playing in a tournament, but for everyone else? Let's be honest, they missed out on little to nothing in terms of playing time and/or development, and certainly not enough to warrant an entire free year for every single player most of which wouldn't have played in the tourney anyway.
 
PvP said:
If the powers that be saw things your way and didn't allow players who were sophomores in 2020 to play that one extra year, we would never have had the rare pleasure of watching Lou this past year, a loss I would deeply regret.

Our team would have been far weaker and she certainly wouldn't have been on any WNBA team's draft list, much less a top 5 selection.
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Can you explain? From my understanding, Lou was simply a fifth-year Graduate student, which COVID-year or not, plenty of players still exercise that option.

I believe the COVID-year is what allowed Dorka to stay two years, however. Correct me if I’m wrong.
 
darrell said:
Can you explain? From my understanding, Lou was simply a fifth-year Graduate student, which COVID-year or not, plenty of players still exercise that option.

I believe the COVID-year is what allowed Dorka to stay two years, however. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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Both Dorka and Lou played college basketball for 5 full seasons. Absent the extra Covid year, neither would have been eligible to play this season.
 
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darrell said:
Can you explain? From my understanding, Lou was simply a fifth-year Graduate student, which COVID-year or not, plenty of players still exercise that option.

I believe the COVID-year is what allowed Dorka to stay two years, however. Correct me if I’m wrong.
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The grad student thing was an important distinction because it meant you could transfer without sitting out a season. Now everyone can transfer without sitting, so grad student or not no longer matters. The fifth season that players are using is their Covid season which is their freebie that today's freshman, sophomores, and juniors won't have.
 
DefenseBB said:
Not sure how well this observation will be taken by some on this forum, but Kara Lawson is starting to remind me of Brenda Frese but without the NCAAT or the Final Fours…lots of star transfers out and lots of transfers in, lots of assistants leaving and new assistants having to come in, and seemingly winning regardless.
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Hard not to draw similarities/contrasts with Niele Ivey: two proficient, former players who came from working in the NBA. Perhaps the on difference is that Niele had a decade+ working as an assistant for Muffet McGraw at Notre Dame.

Niele had more than her share of issues in the beginning with transfers out, both in 2021 and 2022. The first year she was working in pandemic mode which cut down on face-to-face meetings. Plus, most of the players that left were recruited by Muffet and Beth Morgan Cunningham (once an assistant at Duke, too). The next year, she lost most of the remaining MM-players, many of whom were once starters but were now backing up Niele players (Miles, Citron, Mabrey, etc.) Interpersonal communication, however, was brought up as an area that Niele needed to improve on and you often see her referencing and including players on answers. Plus, save for Coquese Washington (who left for the Rutgers HC job), her coaching stable. There are no -- knock on wood -- outgoing transfers this year. Let's see what happens there, but Ivey seems to be getting this thing down.

Lawson always struck me as an intuitive, quick study....probably what made her a good analyst. However, got to wonder how much effective two-way interaction is going on, given the comings and goings we've seen. Is this sustainable? Will be an interesting team to keep track of this year.
 
oldude said:
Both Dorka and Lou played college basketball for 5 full seasons. Absent the extra Covid year, neither would have been eligible to play this season.
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Lou played 4 years at Fairfield, transferred to UConn as a Grad student. COVID year or not, she could have taken this same path.

Dorka played 3 years at OSU, transferred to UConn as a Grad student, but had an extra year of eligibility because of the COVID year. It benefitted Dorka because she left OSU a year earlier, not Lou.
 
darrell said:
Lou played 4 years at Fairfield, transferred to UConn as a Grad student. COVID year or not, she could have taken this same path.
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I don’t think this is right. Pre-Covid, players could get 5 years to complete 4 years of eligibility. Without the Covid extension, Lou could not have played a 5th year. Her eligibility would have been exhausted even though she’d used only 4 years to do it.
 
darrell said:
Lou played 4 years at Fairfield, transferred to UConn as a Grad student. COVID year or not, she could have taken this same path.

Dorka played 3 years at OSU, transferred to UConn as a Grad student, but had an extra year of eligibility because of the COVID year. It benefitted Dorka because she left OSU a year earlier, not Lou.
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Prior to covid, you were only allowed to have 4 years of actively playing. Perhaps one of the years the player redshirted, by choice or injury. And in that case, they could get a fifth year as a grad student. But...if they played all 4 years as an undergrad, they could not play a 5th year as a grad as Lou did. That was solely because of covid.

Covid has allowed players to actively play for 5 years, which was not the case prior.
 
darrell said:
Lou played 4 years at Fairfield, transferred to UConn as a Grad student. COVID year or not, she could have taken this same path.

Dorka played 3 years at OSU, transferred to UConn as a Grad student, but had an extra year of eligibility because of the COVID year. It benefitted Dorka because she left OSU a year earlier, not Lou.
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Grad student status does not affect how many years of eligibility you have. It only impacted, or used to, how quickly you could play at your new school. It does not add extra eligibility.
 
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DefenseBB said:
Not sure how well this observation will be taken by some on this forum, but Kara Lawson is starting to remind me of Brenda Frese but without the NCAAT or the Final Fours…lots of star transfers out and lots of transfers in, lots of assistants leaving and new assistants having to come in, and seemingly winning regardless.
Expand ...

I admire Coach Lawson with what she is doing in only three years, now entering her fourth year. She is recruiting some of the 5 & 4 Star players and getting some of those players but she is also getting those 3 Star players and slowly developing those players.
 
darrell said:
Lou played 4 years at Fairfield, transferred to UConn as a Grad student. COVID year or not, she could have taken this same path.

Dorka played 3 years at OSU, transferred to UConn as a Grad student, but had an extra year of eligibility because of the COVID year. It benefitted Dorka because she left OSU a year earlier, not Lou.
Expand ...
Sorry but that’s not correct. After 4 years at Fairfield, Lou’s college career was over, without the additional Covid year, which she used to transfer to UConn. Dorka, having graduated from tOSU in 3 years, would have only been afforded the opportunity to play 1 season at UConn without the additional Covid year.
 
And the grad transfer immediate eligibility is still in play and will be far into the future, as if a student transfers once in this new universe, and they graduate, they can again transfer without sitting out a year if they haven't used up their eligibilty which will soon revert to 4 years as the 2021 season players cycle through - it is basically the only way to make two transfers now because the NCAA has locked down the waiver process for a second free transfer to minimal exceptional circumstances, that do not include having a scholarship pulled by your second team, or coaching changes, or anything except extreme hardship (family/player documented health.)

Players like Taylor (with 5 years of eligibilty) are using this graduate transfer loophole already.
 
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