Does UConn Need a Low-Post "Banger"? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Does UConn Need a Low-Post "Banger"?

bertieboy said:
I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
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if you know of one currently available let Geno know...............:)
 
Boston even shoots free throws at over a 70% rate. You can’t even beat her by fouling.
 
BobbyJ said:
The reason UConn couldn't free up PB and Fudd for 3s was because SC allowed their bigs to jump out on the high screens so they couldn't shoot over them. SC knew UConn had no inside offensive game and could sell out defensively. One example was the outside shot Fudd tried to take that Saxton jumped out to block.
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Stanford tried the same thing with some success.
 
No.

Last night we didn't run. Didn't shoot. Didn't rebound. Didn't have depth.
 
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To his credit, Geno clearly recognizes the problem and is trying to address it. Recruiting an extremely athletic, strong and fast forward like Ayanna. Ayanna might well be a 10 rebound a game player if she focuses on it. She clearly has everything needed physically to be a great rebounder. Ice Brady should be able to help in that regard also, with a shooting touch to draw out the other team's post player.
 
TeamFirst! said:
To his credit, Geno clearly recognizes the problem and is trying to address it. Recruiting an extremely athletic, strong and fast forward like Ayanna. Ayanna might well be a 10 rebound a game player if she focuses on it. She clearly has everything needed physically to be a great rebounder. Ice Brady should be able to help in that regard also, with a shooting touch to draw out the other team's post player.
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How did Auriemma get this type of dynamic athlete? Shouldn't she be going to a powerhouse SEC school?
 
Would a low-post banger help? Sure. But there were a number of ways UConn could have won on Sunday, even with the loss of Dorka. The fact that the game was basically tied in the second, third, and fourth quarters says something. And SC scored only 64 points.

Contrary to what some are saying, UConn did a pretty good job defending Boston. Boston got 16 rebounds, but she was only 3 for 8 for 11 points. Not bad for UConn without Dorka. Henderson averages 11 points a game but got 26 on Sunday. Was part of that because we had to focus on Boston, giving Henderson more space? Maybe, but teams all year have had to focus on Boston. Henderson had a great night, stepping up like a champion when it counted.

One way we could have won Sunday, everything else being equal, is if our guards played better. Bueckers, despite being smothered by SC, was the only guard to truly stand out despite still not being 100%. I hope the BY appreciates Paige for her two remaining years.

Azzi was sick and deserves a pass. Bad timing. But she wasn’t what she’s capable of during the tournament, even though she’s one of the two most talented players on the team. Paige’s FG% the last four games was 44 UCF, 41 IU, 67 NCST, 54 STAN, 46 SC. AZZI: 31, 27, 44, 25, 33. If Azzi had been healthy on Sunday, the game might have been much different. Hitting 3s and reducing the pressure on Paige. Next tournament we need Azzi to play to her incredible potential.

Back to the SC game, CW, one of my favorite players, was 1 for 7, the 1 during the last minute. She did have 3 assists, but she didn’t play poorly because of defensive pressure. She just disappeared. I felt bad for her.

E was 3 for 10. She was clearly injured. A healthier E would have had a huge effect.

Nika played 16 minutes and shot the ball once. SC didn’t need to pay attention to her. I think Nika, with training before the next season, could become a good offensive player, but against SC, despite her defense and the energy she gave the UConn, she was an offensive hole. We needed more points.

Caroline, at 4 for 8, was good.

The point of this long post is that UConn had the talent to win this year. But the disappointing play of the guards and the injured/sick guards are a big reason for the loss on Sunday. I’m mostly sad for CW, Liv, and E. I’ll miss them.
 
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victor64 said:
Boston is the main obstacle blocking UConn's chances of number 12 short term.
For whatever reason, playing zone did not seem to be a viable option.
Other than Edwards and maybe Patterson, I see no one currently that can handle Boston's physicality. DeBerry, Dorka and Gabriel seem to be a bad matchup.

Henderson killed UConn because Boston doesn't need the ball for the Gamecocks to be effective but she always needs attention..

But given all that, no they should not bring in a banger. Geno is picky about who he brings in. This should not change.

He has about 6 months to figure out how to handle the issue. Figuring out a zone that successfully defends the post area is my solution.
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I wouldn’t put Dorka in the same sentence with the other two. Dorka did a nice job on Morrow and he’s not afraid of banging and pushing and shoving and she has much more strength than the other two. Not even close as to how affective Dorka is in comparison to the other two. Dorka is far superior to anything the other two have shown up to this point in their careers. I just hope that with a summer of work the two that are here already don’t get passed up by the new comers.
 
TeamFirst! said:
Boston even shoots free throws at over a 70% rate. You can’t even beat her by fouling.
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And she shoots FT’s even when she is not really fouled. Oh and gets to take as many steps as she wants.
 
jeff30189 said:
If you think about it the solution might already be on the roster. AE might not be a pure post player, but she's an aggressive and productive offensive rebounder. If she makes another leap forward and focuses on being that low-post banger, who's to say she can't hold her own vs. more or less everyone except Boston? Keep in mind that Charles Barkley is 6'4" and he dominated the boards through determination, positioning and just wanting it more than anyone else.

Dorka is a great rebounder, but she's more of a high-post which doesn't help vs. Boston. If one of the incoming frosh can be a reliable 10-15 low post banger, I'm not sure there's a problem on the boards.

The real question is a 1-game per year issue: how do you negate Boston's ability to be a nightly 20/20 menace? Maybe the answer is not to answer brute force with brute force.
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Aaliyah needs to bulk up in the off-season. I think part of the reason for her slow start this season was that her time spent with the Canadian Olympic team kept her out of the gym. While that does not make her Boston, it does help her with her physicality in the low post. As big a player as she is, when you look at her she seems physically young. JMO.
 
Aliyah Boston is, no doubt, the focal point of South Carolina's front-court attack on the boards. But she's not the only one: Victaria Saxton had the same number of offensive rebounds as Boston, with 5. And in nine minutes of play each, Kamilla Cardoso added 3 and Lele Grissett had 2. That's a lot of tall people on the attack, particularly when Dorka Juhasz is sitting on the bench, injured. While Aaliyah Edwards and Olivia Nelson-Ododa battled hard, they each were only able to get 2 rebounds each.

This isn't specific to UConn. I was thinking of what ND would've or would have tried to do; combat Boston with Maya Dodson, who is a rough tough power forward. Maddy Westbeld would've tried and Sonia Citron, an absolutely superb rebounder as a wing, would try to help. But the effort would've been extreme and would take away from their offensive roles.

I wasn't sure UConn could battle with Stanford's big three, but the Huskies did well. S. Carolina is just a different challenge: big, powerful and in the case of Boston, also technically skilled.

Lastly, there's not that many "aircraft carriers" around and most of them wouldn't fit into what Geno is trying to do. You've got Juhasz and Edwards back, along with Ayanna Patterson and Brady joining. Hope for strength in numbers and have your guards attack and help out. (Paige led the team with six rebounds and Westbrook had 4.).
 
Geno has always been a guard coach, and he’s going to have the best backcourt in the country with Paige/Fudd/Caroline/Nika (and it won’t be close)

People are freaking out a little too much. Boston is great, but this time next year it’s more than likely that Paige is the best player in WCBB again (whereas, there was no competition this year. It was Boston)

UConn needs to play to its strengths. Rebounding of course will be an issue, but with a healthy Azzi, Paige, and Nika..it’ll be hard to get the ball into her, and team rebounding is a thing. (Look at Golden State).

I’m not worried about next season, we okay to our strengths. Dorka, Aaliyah, and hopefully Deberry will be quality posts, and we’ll emphasize our backcourt. (In fact, going small with Caroline at the four might not even be a bad call.) we need to play our game and make Boston and South Carolina uncomfortable.
 
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Not really sure where yuse guys think we're gonna find this "banger" that can neutralize Boston. Truthfully, there isn't anyone in WCBB that can do that. There a probably a few in the WNBA that could do that. You realize Boston is most likely going to be an Olympian for the next 10+ years in the Charles/Griner/Fowles mode. You just don't go into the portal and find one of those. If someone is that good, they usually aren't transferring. We got lucky with Juhasz graduating early.

All you can do is slow Boston down a bit (which we kinda did) and not let the rest of the team beat you (which we didn't).

Besides how are we gonna find playing time for this "gem" we find in the portal? We already have Juhasz, Edwards, Griffin, DeBerry, Brady, Patterson, Gabriel in the 4/5 positions. That's 7 players for 2 positions. You want an 8th? A lot of you have already been complaining about DeBerry and Gabriel's playing time.

Where we are actually short next year is in the 1/2/3 positions. (really 2/3). The Kid, Fudd, Muhl, and CFD. That's 4 players for 3 positions.

You can't run a 2 out 3 in offense. The lane would be too packed in.

I don't think some of you have thought this out very well.
 
JoePgh said:
I'm starting this thread to facilitate discussion of a point that has been made in numerous posts since 10 PM EDT last night. There are many examples of posters making this point, but I have selected this one from @LoboDays' comment in the "Enough About Bad Recruiting" thread:

"If UConn wants to get back to winning NC's, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded...."

There are several points to be made in response to this, in my opinion:
  1. First of all, Aliyah Boston is a very special case. She is currently the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul Jabbar of WCBB. Just as no opponent was able really to match up with either of them, even in the NBA, no one in WCBB has really matched up with Boston. It would have been nice if Geno had brought her to Storrs, but he didn't, and there really is no one else he might have recruited (including Brink, Cunane, Nalyssa Smith, Tamari Key, or Elizabeth Kitley) who could have neutralized her.
  2. UConn (specifically Liv and Aaliyah Edwards) did fine against both Brink and Cunane, neutralizing them sufficiently that UConn was able to win the game with its other assets. Tara Vandeveer in her postgame remarks specifically mentioned how physically Liv played against Stanford, and the Indiana coach said the same thing in her postgame remarks. Some have said that Liv didn't develop in her time at UConn, but I don't think opposing coaches would have been saying those things after their teams faced her in her freshman or sophomore years.
  3. Really, Liv's only deficiency at this point is her scoring -- her lack of an array of post moves or (more importantly) a truly reliable 15-foot jump shot that she can take 8 to 10 times per game and hit 50%. I wonder whether pro teams will be willing to take a chance on her developing those skills at the pro level. If I were a WNBA GM, I think I would take that risk in the second round of the draft, but not in the first round.
  4. There is no issue with AE's appetite for physical play. She is big enough to make that work (bigger than Morgan Tuck or Asjah Jones), but she needs to play with a 5 who can open up space for her in the paint by making midrange jump shots, and she needs to develop her own midrange jump shot to pull opposing posts out of the paint to defend her.
"I don't want to see a 6-5 post player lead the team in assists. That is a negative stat in my opinion.... Against the best, that is a losing strategy."

I think this is an outdated view of the game -- that every team needs a Shaquille O'Neal to be truly successful. Have you watched the Boston Celtics play lately? They don't have a center that plays like that, and they are 33-11 in the NBA since mid-December.

I remember that when UConn's starting lineup included Stef Dolson and Kelly Faris, a lot of fans were asking why Stef played in the high post and seemed to like passing more than scoring. There was such a chorus of these comments that Meg Culmo posed that question to Geno on The Geno Auriemma Show, reading a listener's question.

I remember his response very clearly, although not verbatim. It was almost exactly this:

Playing your big in the low post only works if the other four players are all major scoring threats who have to be guarded. If we put Stef in the low post, the other team would just leave Kelly unguarded and double Stef. Kelly would get any shot she wanted, but we would then have to rely on her jump shooting to win the game. That's not where we want to be. We want to get shots for Stef, and that is much easier if she is in the high post.

What he didn't say in that response (but everyone understood) is: (a) Stef did have a reliable jump shot from 15 feet, so no opponent could afford to leave her unguarded there (a contrast with both Liv and AE); (b) Stef was a fine passer -- at least as good as Liv -- and could facilitate the offense from the high post, allowing the guards not just to get jump shots but also to get backdoor layups and 6-footers; and (c) Stef could take an ungainly opposing post off the dribble and get to the hoop for an and-one, which she did with some regularity.

In the Louisville game in December, Liv drove against Engstler twice in the first few minutes of the game and got 2 quick fouls on her, sending her to the bench for the rest of the first half. I wish we had seen that more often -- she probably could have done the same thing against Brink, but maybe not against Cunane. She certainly could not have done it against Boston.

I'm certainly not saying that if a gifted "banger" like Boston is available out of high school or in the transfer portal, Geno should pass her up. He shouldn't and he won't. But lesser players of that type are not necessarily a better option than players like Dorka and Amari. Imagine if by some miracle, UConn had Aneesha Morrow on the roster this year. She is a "banger" -- would she have turned the South Carolina game around? Would she have done better against Stanford or NC State than UConn's actual front court did? I don't think she would.

I will be interested to see the appetite of of Ice and Ayanna for physical play. My hunch is that they will be closer to the AE end of the physicality spectrum than to the Liv/Amari end. If that is true, then I think UConn's front court for 2022-23 is well situated even without any additional help from the transfer portal or elsewhere. Which doesn't mean that it will have an answer for Boston. The only answer for her is to limit her to some degree and have the rest of the Huskies defeat the rest of the Gamecocks by enough to make up for her advantage.
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In answer to the thread title: Yes, yes they do need a low post banger similar to Bam Bam, or Lobo, or Elliot. Someone that will stand their ground.
 
pvdoggy said:
I love Stef, one of my fav Uconn players, but being a good passer sometimes depends on the receivers as well. The people around you getting open makes a huge difference. Liv would be a great passer on the teams that Stef was on as well.
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Stef did everything well. She shot, passed, defended well. The offense that Geno runs she was a master at it. She would screen well to get a sharp shooter like KML open, she would tip the rebounds she couldn’t grab to another UConn player, she would direct traffic in the halfcourt offense. She did everything well, outside of Tina Charles, she’s my favorite.
 
Boreifs said:
Name one. They don’t grow on trees. There is no one who can stop Boston one on one. This thread feels like a Basketball fantasy league conversation. People, we have six posts on next year’s roster already.
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But, no bangers. ;)
 
I'm not sure if another big is what we need, but Esmery Martinez, who entered the portal out of West Virginia, could truly solve a lot of our rebounding problems.
 
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I think a lot of the rebounding problem is the system. SC's players hit the boards strong in part because they know when the shot is going up and they are in great physical fitness. It's about going after the ball every time, rather than standing around. If we truly critique our games our players stand around a lot rather than crashing the boards. Over and over. We get out hustled. I'm all for subbing more often and if you aren't moving appropriately, you are out. The last two times SC played us they specifically said their number one approach was to make Paige work. We can't expect Paige to play 35 plus minutes. Look at SC's time of play. Almost everyone is under 25 minutes PT.
 
darrell said:
I remember seeing her checking out a UConn game a couple years. Any chance Geno goes after her?
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I also remember many of us were surprised to find out that UCONN had allegedly offered Reese.
 
If Reese is transferring because of style of play, I doubt she's going to UConn to be their banger inside (at least on offense).
 
sweetspot said:
If Reese is transferring because of style of play, I doubt she's going to UConn to be their banger inside (at least on offense).
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I watched a lot of Women's College Hoops this season. Angel is honestly one of (if not the) only bigs that I saw go toe-to-toe with Aliyah Boston. Whoever gets her is getting a good one for sure.
 
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