Does UConn Need a Low-Post "Banger"? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Does UConn Need a Low-Post "Banger"?

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Stef was not just a good passer but phenomenal passer, one of the best bigs. I personally think Stef was better than Liv. Just my opinion.

I love Stef, one of my fav Uconn players, but being a good passer sometimes depends on the receivers as well. The people around you getting open makes a huge difference. Liv would be a great passer on the teams that Stef was on as well.
 
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I'm starting this thread to facilitate discussion of a point that has been made in numerous posts since 10 PM EDT last night. There are many examples of posters making this point, but I have selected this one from @LoboDays' comment in the "Enough About Bad Recruiting" thread:

"If UConn wants to get back to winning NC's, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded...."

There are several points to be made in response to this, in my opinion:
  1. First of all, Aliyah Boston is a very special case. She is currently the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul Jabbar of WCBB. Just as no opponent was able really to match up with either of them, even in the NBA, no one in WCBB has really matched up with Boston. It would have been nice if Geno had brought her to Storrs, but he didn't, and there really is no one else he might have recruited (including Brink, Cunane, Nalyssa Smith, Tamari Key, or Elizabeth Kitley) who could have neutralized her.
  2. UConn (specifically Liv and Aaliyah Edwards) did fine against both Brink and Cunane, neutralizing them sufficiently that UConn was able to win the game with its other assets. Tara Vandeveer in her postgame remarks specifically mentioned how physically Liv played against Stanford, and the Indiana coach said the same thing in her postgame remarks. Some have said that Liv didn't develop in her time at UConn, but I don't think opposing coaches would have been saying those things after their teams faced her in her freshman or sophomore years.
  3. Really, Liv's only deficiency at this point is her scoring -- her lack of an array of post moves or (more importantly) a truly reliable 15-foot jump shot that she can take 8 to 10 times per game and hit 50%. I wonder whether pro teams will be willing to take a chance on her developing those skills at the pro level. If I were a WNBA GM, I think I would take that risk in the second round of the draft, but not in the first round.
  4. There is no issue with AE's appetite for physical play. She is big enough to make that work (bigger than Morgan Tuck or Asjah Jones), but she needs to play with a 5 who can open up space for her in the paint by making midrange jump shots, and she needs to develop her own midrange jump shot to pull opposing posts out of the paint to defend her.
"I don't want to see a 6-5 post player lead the team in assists. That is a negative stat in my opinion.... Against the best, that is a losing strategy."

I think this is an outdated view of the game -- that every team needs a Shaquille O'Neal to be truly successful. Have you watched the Boston Celtics play lately? They don't have a center that plays like that, and they are 33-11 in the NBA since mid-December.

I remember that when UConn's starting lineup included Stef Dolson and Kelly Faris, a lot of fans were asking why Stef played in the high post and seemed to like passing more than scoring. There was such a chorus of these comments that Meg Culmo posed that question to Geno on The Geno Auriemma Show, reading a listener's question.

I remember his response very clearly, although not verbatim. It was almost exactly this:

Playing your big in the low post only works if the other four players are all major scoring threats who have to be guarded. If we put Stef in the low post, the other team would just leave Kelly unguarded and double Stef. Kelly would get any shot she wanted, but we would then have to rely on her jump shooting to win the game. That's not where we want to be. We want to get shots for Stef, and that is much easier if she is in the high post.

What he didn't say in that response (but everyone understood) is: (a) Stef did have a reliable jump shot from 15 feet, so no opponent could afford to leave her unguarded there (a contrast with both Liv and AE); (b) Stef was a fine passer -- at least as good as Liv -- and could facilitate the offense from the high post, allowing the guards not just to get jump shots but also to get backdoor layups and 6-footers; and (c) Stef could take an ungainly opposing post off the dribble and get to the hoop for an and-one, which she did with some regularity.

In the Louisville game in December, Liv drove against Engstler twice in the first few minutes of the game and got 2 quick fouls on her, sending her to the bench for the rest of the first half. I wish we had seen that more often -- she probably could have done the same thing against Brink, but maybe not against Cunane. She certainly could not have done it against Boston.

I'm certainly not saying that if a gifted "banger" like Boston is available out of high school or in the transfer portal, Geno should pass her up. He shouldn't and he won't. But lesser players of that type are not necessarily a better option than players like Dorka and Amari. Imagine if by some miracle, UConn had Aneesha Morrow on the roster this year. She is a "banger" -- would she have turned the South Carolina game around? Would she have done better against Stanford or NC State than UConn's actual front court did? I don't think she would.

I will be interested to see the appetite of of Ice and Ayanna for physical play. My hunch is that they will be closer to the AE end of the physicality spectrum than to the Liv/Amari end. If that is true, then I think UConn's front court for 2022-23 is well situated even without any additional help from the transfer portal or elsewhere. Which doesn't mean that it will have an answer for Boston. The only answer for her is to limit her to some degree and have the rest of the Huskies defeat the rest of the Gamecocks by enough to make up for her advantage.
Well said!
 
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Yes. A big body player who is nimble on her feet for a devastating pick and roll. The picks provided by Liv and AE were a lot of times moving picks that resulted in offensive fouls and their lack of ability to roll efficiently to the basket put a lof of pressure on the guards to hit mid range shots and while Paige and Azzi got a great mid range shot some of the other players struggled.
 

JoePgh

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Yes. A big body player who is nimble on her feet for a devastating pick and roll.
Can you please name a real player who meets this requirement? Aneesha Morrow? How about someone who is actually likely to be in the transfer portal?

Maybe I should have been more precise in wording my question. What I really meant was more like this: "Given that no clone of Aliyah Boston is likely to be available to UConn in 2022-23, can UConn win an NC next year without that kind of a player?"

I think you are saying that the answer to that question is No. Is that what you mean to say?

Do you think that UConn could have won Sunday night's game if Geno had Cameron Brink, Elissa Cunane, Elizabeth Kitley, or NaLyssa Smith in the post instead of Olivia? I don't think so. But could UConn have won on Sunday night if Geno had Dorka, Aubrey, a fully healthy Azzi and an uninjured Evina for the entire game (along with Liv and AE)? I think the answer to that (while not clear) is possibly Yes.
 
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Did UConn lose that game more because of Boston's play or because of Henderson who scored 26 points and the SC defense against the UConn guards............? If UConn was healthy and they could have freed Bueckers and Fudd to take uncontested threes who knows what would have happened......
 
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I really would be careful with transfers, I already think there's a lot of players on this team that don't get an opportunity. I do think Fairfield player that transfer would be good because she can come off the bench and spark some offense.
 
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I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
 
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I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
there's always that gamechanging recruit that decides a huge fate. Maya not sure how serious it was going to Tenn, but imagine a world where she did go there over Uconn. How different would things be. Delle Donne staying at Uconn instead of leaving. Boston is going to be that as well
 
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Definitely—-yes. The SC team we see today is just the beginning of what is to come in the Women’s game. Just like the men’s game, it will become a battle of the titans. Whoever wins that battle, cuts down the nets. It has become a more physical game. Teams with hopes of a NC, need to compete at that level.
Nailed it.
 
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I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
Funny you should mention Miss. St. They beat us giving S.C. their first title, we might have done the same thing by beating Stanford, giving S.C. their second title. Think about it.
 
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I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
if you know of one currently available let Geno know...............:)
 
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Boston even shoots free throws at over a 70% rate. You can’t even beat her by fouling.
 
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The reason UConn couldn't free up PB and Fudd for 3s was because SC allowed their bigs to jump out on the high screens so they couldn't shoot over them. SC knew UConn had no inside offensive game and could sell out defensively. One example was the outside shot Fudd tried to take that Saxton jumped out to block.
Stanford tried the same thing with some success.
 

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No.

Last night we didn't run. Didn't shoot. Didn't rebound. Didn't have depth.
 
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To his credit, Geno clearly recognizes the problem and is trying to address it. Recruiting an extremely athletic, strong and fast forward like Ayanna. Ayanna might well be a 10 rebound a game player if she focuses on it. She clearly has everything needed physically to be a great rebounder. Ice Brady should be able to help in that regard also, with a shooting touch to draw out the other team's post player.
 
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To his credit, Geno clearly recognizes the problem and is trying to address it. Recruiting an extremely athletic, strong and fast forward like Ayanna. Ayanna might well be a 10 rebound a game player if she focuses on it. She clearly has everything needed physically to be a great rebounder. Ice Brady should be able to help in that regard also, with a shooting touch to draw out the other team's post player.
How did Auriemma get this type of dynamic athlete? Shouldn't she be going to a powerhouse SEC school?
 
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Who is their starting pg?
Destanni Henderson
Next season Raven Johnson.....she was injured this season, but was the number 2 overall recruit in 2021
 
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Would a low-post banger help? Sure. But there were a number of ways UConn could have won on Sunday, even with the loss of Dorka. The fact that the game was basically tied in the second, third, and fourth quarters says something. And SC scored only 64 points.

Contrary to what some are saying, UConn did a pretty good job defending Boston. Boston got 16 rebounds, but she was only 3 for 8 for 11 points. Not bad for UConn without Dorka. Henderson averages 11 points a game but got 26 on Sunday. Was part of that because we had to focus on Boston, giving Henderson more space? Maybe, but teams all year have had to focus on Boston. Henderson had a great night, stepping up like a champion when it counted.

One way we could have won Sunday, everything else being equal, is if our guards played better. Bueckers, despite being smothered by SC, was the only guard to truly stand out despite still not being 100%. I hope the BY appreciates Paige for her two remaining years.

Azzi was sick and deserves a pass. Bad timing. But she wasn’t what she’s capable of during the tournament, even though she’s one of the two most talented players on the team. Paige’s FG% the last four games was 44 UCF, 41 IU, 67 NCST, 54 STAN, 46 SC. AZZI: 31, 27, 44, 25, 33. If Azzi had been healthy on Sunday, the game might have been much different. Hitting 3s and reducing the pressure on Paige. Next tournament we need Azzi to play to her incredible potential.

Back to the SC game, CW, one of my favorite players, was 1 for 7, the 1 during the last minute. She did have 3 assists, but she didn’t play poorly because of defensive pressure. She just disappeared. I felt bad for her.

E was 3 for 10. She was clearly injured. A healthier E would have had a huge effect.

Nika played 16 minutes and shot the ball once. SC didn’t need to pay attention to her. I think Nika, with training before the next season, could become a good offensive player, but against SC, despite her defense and the energy she gave the UConn, she was an offensive hole. We needed more points.

Caroline, at 4 for 8, was good.

The point of this long post is that UConn had the talent to win this year. But the disappointing play of the guards and the injured/sick guards are a big reason for the loss on Sunday. I’m mostly sad for CW, Liv, and E. I’ll miss them.
 
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Boston is the main obstacle blocking UConn's chances of number 12 short term.
For whatever reason, playing zone did not seem to be a viable option.
Other than Edwards and maybe Patterson, I see no one currently that can handle Boston's physicality. DeBerry, Dorka and Gabriel seem to be a bad matchup.

Henderson killed UConn because Boston doesn't need the ball for the Gamecocks to be effective but she always needs attention..

But given all that, no they should not bring in a banger. Geno is picky about who he brings in. This should not change.

He has about 6 months to figure out how to handle the issue. Figuring out a zone that successfully defends the post area is my solution.
I wouldn’t put Dorka in the same sentence with the other two. Dorka did a nice job on Morrow and he’s not afraid of banging and pushing and shoving and she has much more strength than the other two. Not even close as to how affective Dorka is in comparison to the other two. Dorka is far superior to anything the other two have shown up to this point in their careers. I just hope that with a summer of work the two that are here already don’t get passed up by the new comers.
 

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