Does UConn Need a Low-Post "Banger"? | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Does UConn Need a Low-Post "Banger"?

Skill wise I think UCONN is off balance. And by that I mean...their most plentiful skill is guard play. Lots of different combinations. Last night...you had Evina playing the 4. That's unfair to Evina and a misuse of her skillset and energy. Asking a 2 guard to play some point guard or wing...is a reasonable ask. When you ask guards to play in the paint and lead you in rebounds ...that is not sustainable. Nika was the top rebounder the game before last...and last night...it was Paige and Evina. That works with a less physical team, but not an athletic team on a mission to eat your lunch. I'll say this again...asking LIV to play against 5s for 4 years was a waste of her talent. And AE, started slow, but for all the physicality in this tournament she more than held her own. If you can't play inside out or draw defenders...don't expect your shooters to get a lot of clean looks or have to use a lot of energy to get open. Good news. It's not the hardest fix. And..the solution may already be on the roster in Amari and/or Piath. I don't know because...you really can't tell where a player is....until they play regularly other than the last 3 minutes of a game. I had no idea Kiah Stokes was so good until she was on her way out the door. This coaching staff knows what they need to do.
 
I agree that this is not merely a queston of " how to beat South Carolina ", but that has
to be on the radar. I would vote "Yes" = look for a Big Post player
for back up and insurance.
Dorka would be my starter and Amari DeBerry first in the post, if
she develops over the summer. I just watched three H.S. clips of Ace
Brady and found each one of those reassuring. = Nice Young Lady!
Ayanna Patterson will be very good but she is not 6'5" despite her
jumping skill. So. Why not !! We have Aaliyah and Aubrey will be
back, but ... I will wait to see what Geno does, if anything, in the
Portal. Go Huskies!
 
A banger that scores would be at the top of my list.
Name one. They don’t grow on trees. There is no one who can stop Boston one on one. This thread feels like a Basketball fantasy league conversation. People, we have six posts on next year’s roster already.
 
Just go get a couple of those young ladies from Central Florida and the "banger" and rebounding issues will be solved...hehe
This might have been a sarcastic post, but it got me thinking about UCF, how SC came out and 'bangers'. I think it comes down to an aggressive approach to the game. SC had it the minute the ball was tipped, UCF has it (without a banger), Morrow has it, Stef had it, Nika has it. Liv definitely didn't have it. Could we instill it in AE, Dorka or the frosh?
 
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You don't go to the foul line much if you don't go to the rack much. You have to draw contact by taking it at them.
Which has nothing to do with the subject of my post.
 
Name one. They don’t grow on trees. There is no one who can stop Boston one on one. This thread feels like a Basketball fantasy league conversation. People, we have six posts on next year’s roster already.
Maybe you play SC with three forwards instead of three guards.
 
You complained about the discrepancy in foul shots. I gave you the reason for it. Don't you understand it?
I was not complaining, I was stating a fact as it related to the scoring. There was a huge discrepancy in the number of FTAs and the difference in the FTs made was basically the MOV. That was my point.
I wonder if any previous NC games had such a discrepancy? But that's a discussion for a different day.
 
Ice and Ayanna are strong strong. Go look at some highlight reels of them because they dominate in the post. I loved Liv and she did everything she could but her body just wasn’t built to be a post player. I don’t think it was her fault because she did everything she could do to be the best player she could be. She tried to please a lot of haters but of course they will still hate. I like the trend Geno started by bringing in Aaliyah, because he could tell he wasn’t going to win a lot of tough games, like SC, by recruiting players who were built like Liv, not because of person they were, but because of how the game is evolving. One of the many reasons Aaliyah Boston is so dominant is mainly because she muscles her way to the paint. Liv was more of a finese player and you cant rely on just finesse in the college game most of the time.
 
Is UConn looking specifically for player(s) they need to beat SC and Stanford next year? I hope so.
 
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I can understand your point of view, and I appreciate your detailed response, but if you are looking for a player like Morgan Tuck, then what is your issue with Aaliyah Edwards? I think they are very similar, and that AE has a chance to be as good as Morgan by the time she graduates. For one thing, she is faster than Morgan and can defend on the perimeter better than Morgan. At this point, she doesn't have the rebounding and boxing-out skills that Tuck had, but she may develop them in the next two years.

Morgan was out with an injury in her sophomore year, so a direct comparison is difficult, but I suspect that if she had played, sophomore Morgan would not have been notably better than sophomore AE was in the second half of the season. If senior Morgan were playing in Sunday night's game instead of AE, it would not have changed the outcome of the game.
Morgan had noticeably better post skills than AE, had a much better outside shot, and played equally good defense without fouling. None of this is to denigrate AE, Morgan Tuck was a hell of a player; limited only by her gimpy knees.
 
Definitely—-yes. The SC team we see today is just the beginning of what is to come in the Women’s game. Just like the men’s game, it will become a battle of the titans. Whoever wins that battle, cuts down the nets. It has become a more physical game. Teams with hopes of a NC, need to compete at that level.
The titans in basketball increasingly want to play like Chet Holmgreen at Gonzaga or Cameron Brink at Stanford. Teams want to spread to score while still challenging with length inside on defense.

That’s what makes Boston so unique — she can dominate in an old school way. But I predict there will be fewer Bostons in the next 10 years than there were over the 10 years before she arrived.
 
I agree that this is not merely a queston of " how to beat South Carolina ", but that has
to be on the radar. I would vote "Yes" = look for a Big Post player
for back up and insurance.
Dorka would be my starter and Amari DeBerry first in the post, if
she develops over the summer. I just watched three H.S. clips of Ace
Brady and found each one of those reassuring. = Nice Young Lady!
Ayanna Patterson will be very good but she is not 6'5" despite her
jumping skill.
So. Why not !! We have Aaliyah and Aubrey will be
back, but ... I will wait to see what Geno does, if anything, in the
Portal. Go Huskies!
Jamelle Elliott wasn't 6'5" either - didn't stop her from banging in the paint. Yes, players are far more athletic now than back in Jamelle's day, but from what I've seen, Ayanna is tough as nails and I think she'll do quite alright.
 
Engstler…..attitude, athletic, skilled and a nice player! Her type would be a great fit.
 
If you think about it the solution might already be on the roster. AE might not be a pure post player, but she's an aggressive and productive offensive rebounder. If she makes another leap forward and focuses on being that low-post banger, who's to say she can't hold her own vs. more or less everyone except Boston? Keep in mind that Charles Barkley is 6'4" and he dominated the boards through determination, positioning and just wanting it more than anyone else.

Dorka is a great rebounder, but she's more of a high-post which doesn't help vs. Boston. If one of the incoming frosh can be a reliable 10-15 low post banger, I'm not sure there's a problem on the boards.

The real question is a 1-game per year issue: how do you negate Boston's ability to be a nightly 20/20 menace? Maybe the answer is not to answer brute force with brute force.
 
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Stef was not just a good passer but phenomenal passer, one of the best bigs. I personally think Stef was better than Liv. Just my opinion.
Of course she was; and Stef had an outside shot.
 
Stef was not just a good passer but phenomenal passer, one of the best bigs. I personally think Stef was better than Liv. Just my opinion.
Agreed. The fact that Geno once said if he could coach 10 Stefanie Dolsons every year he’d coach forever is all the proof I need that Stef was one of the greatest post players in UConn history.
 
Stef was not just a good passer but phenomenal passer, one of the best bigs. I personally think Stef was better than Liv. Just my opinion.

I love Stef, one of my fav Uconn players, but being a good passer sometimes depends on the receivers as well. The people around you getting open makes a huge difference. Liv would be a great passer on the teams that Stef was on as well.
 
I'm starting this thread to facilitate discussion of a point that has been made in numerous posts since 10 PM EDT last night. There are many examples of posters making this point, but I have selected this one from @LoboDays' comment in the "Enough About Bad Recruiting" thread:

"If UConn wants to get back to winning NC's, they need to bring in post players who can defend players like Boston and Brink, get their share of rebounds against them (especially limit their offensive rebounds) and have the ability to score underneath when guarded...."

There are several points to be made in response to this, in my opinion:
  1. First of all, Aliyah Boston is a very special case. She is currently the Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem Abdul Jabbar of WCBB. Just as no opponent was able really to match up with either of them, even in the NBA, no one in WCBB has really matched up with Boston. It would have been nice if Geno had brought her to Storrs, but he didn't, and there really is no one else he might have recruited (including Brink, Cunane, Nalyssa Smith, Tamari Key, or Elizabeth Kitley) who could have neutralized her.
  2. UConn (specifically Liv and Aaliyah Edwards) did fine against both Brink and Cunane, neutralizing them sufficiently that UConn was able to win the game with its other assets. Tara Vandeveer in her postgame remarks specifically mentioned how physically Liv played against Stanford, and the Indiana coach said the same thing in her postgame remarks. Some have said that Liv didn't develop in her time at UConn, but I don't think opposing coaches would have been saying those things after their teams faced her in her freshman or sophomore years.
  3. Really, Liv's only deficiency at this point is her scoring -- her lack of an array of post moves or (more importantly) a truly reliable 15-foot jump shot that she can take 8 to 10 times per game and hit 50%. I wonder whether pro teams will be willing to take a chance on her developing those skills at the pro level. If I were a WNBA GM, I think I would take that risk in the second round of the draft, but not in the first round.
  4. There is no issue with AE's appetite for physical play. She is big enough to make that work (bigger than Morgan Tuck or Asjah Jones), but she needs to play with a 5 who can open up space for her in the paint by making midrange jump shots, and she needs to develop her own midrange jump shot to pull opposing posts out of the paint to defend her.
"I don't want to see a 6-5 post player lead the team in assists. That is a negative stat in my opinion.... Against the best, that is a losing strategy."

I think this is an outdated view of the game -- that every team needs a Shaquille O'Neal to be truly successful. Have you watched the Boston Celtics play lately? They don't have a center that plays like that, and they are 33-11 in the NBA since mid-December.

I remember that when UConn's starting lineup included Stef Dolson and Kelly Faris, a lot of fans were asking why Stef played in the high post and seemed to like passing more than scoring. There was such a chorus of these comments that Meg Culmo posed that question to Geno on The Geno Auriemma Show, reading a listener's question.

I remember his response very clearly, although not verbatim. It was almost exactly this:

Playing your big in the low post only works if the other four players are all major scoring threats who have to be guarded. If we put Stef in the low post, the other team would just leave Kelly unguarded and double Stef. Kelly would get any shot she wanted, but we would then have to rely on her jump shooting to win the game. That's not where we want to be. We want to get shots for Stef, and that is much easier if she is in the high post.

What he didn't say in that response (but everyone understood) is: (a) Stef did have a reliable jump shot from 15 feet, so no opponent could afford to leave her unguarded there (a contrast with both Liv and AE); (b) Stef was a fine passer -- at least as good as Liv -- and could facilitate the offense from the high post, allowing the guards not just to get jump shots but also to get backdoor layups and 6-footers; and (c) Stef could take an ungainly opposing post off the dribble and get to the hoop for an and-one, which she did with some regularity.

In the Louisville game in December, Liv drove against Engstler twice in the first few minutes of the game and got 2 quick fouls on her, sending her to the bench for the rest of the first half. I wish we had seen that more often -- she probably could have done the same thing against Brink, but maybe not against Cunane. She certainly could not have done it against Boston.

I'm certainly not saying that if a gifted "banger" like Boston is available out of high school or in the transfer portal, Geno should pass her up. He shouldn't and he won't. But lesser players of that type are not necessarily a better option than players like Dorka and Amari. Imagine if by some miracle, UConn had Aneesha Morrow on the roster this year. She is a "banger" -- would she have turned the South Carolina game around? Would she have done better against Stanford or NC State than UConn's actual front court did? I don't think she would.

I will be interested to see the appetite of of Ice and Ayanna for physical play. My hunch is that they will be closer to the AE end of the physicality spectrum than to the Liv/Amari end. If that is true, then I think UConn's front court for 2022-23 is well situated even without any additional help from the transfer portal or elsewhere. Which doesn't mean that it will have an answer for Boston. The only answer for her is to limit her to some degree and have the rest of the Huskies defeat the rest of the Gamecocks by enough to make up for her advantage.
Well said!
 
Yes. A big body player who is nimble on her feet for a devastating pick and roll. The picks provided by Liv and AE were a lot of times moving picks that resulted in offensive fouls and their lack of ability to roll efficiently to the basket put a lof of pressure on the guards to hit mid range shots and while Paige and Azzi got a great mid range shot some of the other players struggled.
 
Yes. A big body player who is nimble on her feet for a devastating pick and roll.
Can you please name a real player who meets this requirement? Aneesha Morrow? How about someone who is actually likely to be in the transfer portal?

Maybe I should have been more precise in wording my question. What I really meant was more like this: "Given that no clone of Aliyah Boston is likely to be available to UConn in 2022-23, can UConn win an NC next year without that kind of a player?"

I think you are saying that the answer to that question is No. Is that what you mean to say?

Do you think that UConn could have won Sunday night's game if Geno had Cameron Brink, Elissa Cunane, Elizabeth Kitley, or NaLyssa Smith in the post instead of Olivia? I don't think so. But could UConn have won on Sunday night if Geno had Dorka, Aubrey, a fully healthy Azzi and an uninjured Evina for the entire game (along with Liv and AE)? I think the answer to that (while not clear) is possibly Yes.
 
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Did UConn lose that game more because of Boston's play or because of Henderson who scored 26 points and the SC defense against the UConn guards............? If UConn was healthy and they could have freed Bueckers and Fudd to take uncontested threes who knows what would have happened......
 
I really would be careful with transfers, I already think there's a lot of players on this team that don't get an opportunity. I do think Fairfield player that transfer would be good because she can come off the bench and spark some offense.
 
I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
 
I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
there's always that gamechanging recruit that decides a huge fate. Maya not sure how serious it was going to Tenn, but imagine a world where she did go there over Uconn. How different would things be. Delle Donne staying at Uconn instead of leaving. Boston is going to be that as well
 
Definitely—-yes. The SC team we see today is just the beginning of what is to come in the Women’s game. Just like the men’s game, it will become a battle of the titans. Whoever wins that battle, cuts down the nets. It has become a more physical game. Teams with hopes of a NC, need to compete at that level.
Nailed it.
 
I have been thinking for some time, since we lost to Mississippi State in 2017, that we need a Tina Charles type center. She rebounded and scored really well. Had we had a center like her, we'd have 3 or 4 more championships. If Boston had come to Uconn we would have won each of her three years.
Funny you should mention Miss. St. They beat us giving S.C. their first title, we might have done the same thing by beating Stanford, giving S.C. their second title. Think about it.
 
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