Do they really "need" to play... overseas?

[willtalk]

right... Lebron's NBA season is over, should he now go to Europe to earn as much as he can before it all ends?

The top 30 men players in Europe make between 1 and 3 million. So in essence, their European salary is about one-tenth of what the get in the NBA. This is basically the reverse of what it is in Womens Basketball. Other than financially there are advantages for USA players to play in the WNBA. They get to play at home and playing in the WNBA also helps to define their market value overseas. It is to is often financially advantageous for American players to at least initially play in the WNBA even if the salary is not that great.

It would make little sense for LeBron to play in Europe for about a tenth of his NBA salary. The same would apply to a lesser salaried NBA player because their overseas salary would also drop about the same percentage.

Playing overseas is for men players who can not make the NBA roster. While that also applies to women, it does not carry over in respect to salary in that the Roles of WNBA and overseas salaries are reversed. For them, the main lure of playing in the WNBA is not salary but the for exposure in the US and the prestige which would include increasing their overseas value. WNBA exposure is essential in respect to commercial marketing, shoe deals for the very top players in respect to their in-country commercial value. Plus they also get to be seen by their family and fans that have followed them throughout their careers. That can not happen if they play exclusively overseas.

 

[DEpup]

Women’s basketball is a niche sport. It has a fan base, yes, but it’s tiny compared to the NBA or even men’s college hoops. There is just no interest. It’s the same with any other sport, golf for instance. Do you care about the LPGA? How about women’s ice hockey? These sports exist but do not have the same following as men’s sports. Tennis, maybe, gymnastics, and ice skating are the only women’s sports where interest is the same as the men’s version

So if that is the state of affairs then why would anyone feel the need to ask if an elite athlete would have to work overseas to make a living and create this thread.

 

[j66kicker]

Ok, a the CEO of Amazon can buy the whole NBA and WNBA.

His wife, with her recent divorce settlement of $36 billion worth of Amazon stock, could buy the whole NFL for cash

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

So if that is the state of affairs then why would anyone feel the need to ask if an elite athlete would have to work overseas to make a living and create this thread.

When I read the title, I took it as stated - do they "need" to go overseas to make a decent living?

My takeaway from this whole thread -
- yes, if they want to maximize earning potential from WBB during the years they can play
- no, if they want to spend the time developing their future career outside of basketball
- and that it is probably difficult to do both.

Past that - folks are way to emotional about an issue that seems, at least to me, pretty obvious. Unless a lot more folks want to join us in being fans of WBB, that is just the way it is going to be. Sad, but true.

 

[j66kicker]

And things will never change if people keep enabling and explaining away the tough choices elite female athletes are forced to make just to make a living. We on this board get such enjoyment out of women's basketball and then create a thread that in its title expreses such tone deafness. Sad.

Although I hope the WNBA will someday become popular enough for its players to be able to make a living playing in the WNBA full time, it's hard to have too much pity for them. They get paid to play a game. Unlike most of us, they have the choice of whether to do that, or to go make a living doing something that's actually economically productive (or both). Boo hoo...

 

[triaddukefan]

His wife, with her recent divorce settlement of $36 billion worth of Amazon stock, could buy the whole NFL for cash

You talking about every franchise? The Panthers just sold for 2.3 Billion in cash last year.... and it's at best in the middle in terms of NFL's franchise worth.

 

[uconnfan68]

That seems right since he is worth more than the entire WNBA.

Which is why he doesn’t need an off-season job overseas to get by.

 

[j66kicker]

You talking about every franchise? The Panthers just sold for 2.3 Billion in cash last year.... and it's at best in the middle in terms of NFL's franchise worth.

OK only the top 10 most valuable NFC teams. Forbes says the average NFL franchise is worth $2.57 Billion. Top 10:

$5.00B Cowboys
$3.80B Patriots
$3.30B Giants
$3.20B Redskins
$3.20B Rams
$3.05B 49ers
$2.90B Bears
$2.85B Jets
$2.80B Texans
$2.75B Eagles
$32.85 Billion

 

[DICKG]

exactly... move overseas and do what Barbara Turner did, made a career out of it. Im sure they'll miss home but...

We love going to The Connecticut Sun Games. They draw at best 6000 people. I am still amazed the league has not folded. The teams are surely not making any money and they surely cannot compete with the overseas salaries.

 

[DaddyChoc]

The top 30 men players in Europe make between 1 and 3 million. So in essence, their European salary is about one-tenth of what the get in the NBA. This is basically the reverse of what it is in Womens Basketball. Other than financially there are advantages for USA players to play in the WNBA. They get to play at home and playing in the WNBA also helps to define their market value overseas. It is to is often financially advantageous for American players to at least initially play in the WNBA even if the salary is not that great.

It would make little sense for LeBron to play in Europe for about a tenth of his NBA salary. The same would apply to a lesser salaried NBA player because their overseas salary would also drop about the same percentage.

Playing overseas is for men players who can not make the NBA roster. While that also applies to women, it does not carry over in respect to salary in that the Roles of WNBA and overseas salaries are reversed. For them, the main lure of playing in the WNBA is not salary but the for exposure in the US and the prestige which would include increasing their overseas value. WNBA exposure is essential in respect to commercial marketing, shoe deals for the very top players in respect to their in-country commercial value. Plus they also get to be seen by their family and fans that have followed them throughout their careers. That can not happen if they play exclusively overseas.

exactly why comparing the women and the men is goofy

 

[DaddyChoc]

Which is why he doesn’t need an off-season job overseas to get by.

Lebron could get by... on 50k as a “regular” guy working at IBM. The NBA allows him to make much more tho

 

[DaddyChoc]

You seem to have the illusion that 5-10 years of $100k makes one rich and set for life. I wonder on what planet you live.

No they’ll do what most washed up athletes do... get another job. Lobo is working! 10 years of 100k is a million dollar, seems like a good life for lotta folks. Long as you don’t go around buying Maserati’s you’ll be ok

 

[car-man]

50k-120k isnt enough to live off in the USA... along with a little side gig during the WNBA off-season. Why must they play elsewhere when not playing in the W?

Would you turn down $1,000,000 a year to play overseas. Would the guys play in the NBA for 50k- 120k?

 

[Orangutan]

Oh hey, another thread on WNBA salaries. I'm sure this will be just as productive and useful as the last 20 on this topic.

If you wonder why the WNBA isn't more successful, start with how many fans of women's college basketball seem to root openly for the league to fail.

It's amazing to me that the discussion points on this topic are:
-- "It's a niche sport"
-- "Maybe players shouldn't play in the WNBA?"
-- "Don't they make enough money already?"

Instead of:
-- "How can we grow the game and make it a more mainstream sport?"
-- "Does the NBA do an adequate job promoting the WNBA?"
-- "How can we change the largely negative conversation around the WNBA?"

People say "it's just economics" like that is some immutable law. But it isn't. Yes, the demand for the WNBA's product is tiny compared to the demand for the NBA product. So let's figure out how we create more demand.

It was said for a long time that there would never be women in the UFC. Then they brought in Ronda Rousey and she became one of the two biggest draws in the sport and made the UFC millions of dollars. Now, women's fights routinely headline PPVs. There's evidence that women's sports *can* make money.

It's going to be difficult as long as the NBA treats the WNBA like a red-headed stepchild that they are obligated to support financially. It's going to be difficult as long as the mainstream media latches on to negatives like Stewart's injuries or Candice Wiggins' inflammatory comments from a couple years back while being generally happy to ignore the actual games. It's going to be difficult as long as the WNBA is treated like a laughingstock and every singled social media post is flooded with "kitchen" jokes in the comments.

But those things don't have to be that way. There's an opportunity to change the conversation.

The lack of above the rim action in the WNBA is going to put off some fans. However, I've seen plenty of basketbloggers online who nerd out over pick-and-roll coverages and other strategic details that aren't exclusive to the men's game. Yet they take the summer off or cover Summer League instead of analyzing the WNBA. If you could convert just a quarter of those strategy nerds and their twitter followers, you would have a huge new fanbase.

Shea Serrano's twitter feed since he started following Oregon and Las Vegas is a one-man testament to the idea that if they right people start promoting the game, a new audience can be reached. I've read dozens of "I've never watched women's basketball, but this game is great!" comments on his twitter feed.

Up until 2013, I couldn't have cared less about women's basketball. I thought I would check out the local girl, Kayla McBride, playing for Notre Dame. I got hooked on ND. And later on the Sky when they drafted Delle Donne.

I just can't help but think that there's more like me out there who never gave women's basketball an honest chance and would love the product if they did give it a try. To me, that's always the question - how can we get more basketball fans to give this league a try?

In my opinion, there is much more to be done. It's not simply a case of "We're doing everything we can but people just won't come. Oh well."

 

[Vowelguy]

This is one of the dumbest threads in BY history and that's saying something. And I've been the idiot to make multiple posts here.

If you can't understand why folks wouldn't want to pass up lucrative earning opportunities in the very short window that they have, I can't help you.

 

[DEpup]

Oh hey, another thread on WNBA salaries. I'm sure this will be just as productive and useful as the last 20 on this topic.

If you wonder why the WNBA isn't more successful, start with how many fans of women's college basketball seem to root openly for the league to fail.

It's amazing to me that the discussion points on this topic are:
-- "It's a niche sport"
-- "Maybe players shouldn't play in the WNBA?"
-- "Don't they make enough money already?"

Instead of:
-- "How can we grow the game and make it a more mainstream sport?"
-- "Does the NBA do an adequate job promoting the WNBA?"
-- "How can we change the largely negative conversation around the WNBA?"

People say "it's just economics" like that is some immutable law. But it isn't. Yes, the demand for the WNBA's product is tiny compared to the demand for the NBA product. So let's figure out how we create more demand.

It was said for a long time that there would never be women in the UFC. Then they brought in Ronda Rousey and she became one of the two biggest draws in the sport and made the UFC millions of dollars. Now, women's fights routinely headline PPVs. There's evidence that women's sports *can* make money.

It's going to be difficult as long as the NBA treats the WNBA like a red-headed stepchild that they are obligated to support financially. It's going to be difficult as long as the mainstream media latches on to negatives like Stewart's injuries or Candice Wiggins' inflammatory comments from a couple years back while being generally happy to ignore the actual games. It's going to be difficult as long as the WNBA is treated like a laughingstock and every singled social media post is flooded with "kitchen" jokes in the comments.

But those things don't have to be that way. There's an opportunity to change the conversation.

The lack of above the rim action in the WNBA is going to put off some fans. However, I've seen plenty of basketbloggers online who nerd out over pick-and-roll coverages and other strategic details that aren't exclusive to the men's game. Yet they take the summer off or cover Summer League instead of analyzing the WNBA. If you could convert just a quarter of those strategy nerds and their twitter followers, you would have a huge new fanbase.

Shea Serrano's twitter feed since he started following Oregon and Las Vegas is a one-man testament to the idea that if they right people start promoting the game, a new audience can be reached. I've read dozens of "I've never watched women's basketball, but this game is great!" comments on his twitter feed.

Up until 2013, I couldn't have cared less about women's basketball. I thought I would check out the local girl, Kayla McBride, playing for Notre Dame. I got hooked on ND. And later on the Sky when they drafted Delle Donne.

I just can't help but think that there's more like me out there who never gave women's basketball an honest chance and would love the product if they did give it a try. To me, that's always the question - how can we get more basketball fans to give this league a try?

In my opinion, there is much more to be done. It's not simply a case of "We're doing everything we can but people just won't come. Oh well."

Thank you for your post.

 

[HuskyNan]

Oh hey, another thread on WNBA salaries. I'm sure this will be just as productive and useful as the last 20 on this topic.

If you wonder why the WNBA isn't more successful, start with how many fans of women's college basketball seem to root openly for the league to fail.

It's amazing to me that the discussion points on this topic are:
-- "It's a niche sport"
-- "Maybe players shouldn't play in the WNBA?"
-- "Don't they make enough money already?"

Instead of:
-- "How can we grow the game and make it a more mainstream sport?"
-- "Does the NBA do an adequate job promoting the WNBA?"
-- "How can we change the largely negative conversation around the WNBA?"

People say "it's just economics" like that is some immutable law. But it isn't. Yes, the demand for the WNBA's product is tiny compared to the demand for the NBA product. So let's figure out how we create more demand.

It was said for a long time that there would never be women in the UFC. Then they brought in Ronda Rousey and she became one of the two biggest draws in the sport and made the UFC millions of dollars. Now, women's fights routinely headline PPVs. There's evidence that women's sports *can* make money.

It's going to be difficult as long as the NBA treats the WNBA like a red-headed stepchild that they are obligated to support financially. It's going to be difficult as long as the mainstream media latches on to negatives like Stewart's injuries or Candice Wiggins' inflammatory comments from a couple years back while being generally happy to ignore the actual games. It's going to be difficult as long as the WNBA is treated like a laughingstock and every singled social media post is flooded with "kitchen" jokes in the comments.

But those things don't have to be that way. There's an opportunity to change the conversation.

The lack of above the rim action in the WNBA is going to put off some fans. However, I've seen plenty of basketbloggers online who nerd out over pick-and-roll coverages and other strategic details that aren't exclusive to the men's game. Yet they take the summer off or cover Summer League instead of analyzing the WNBA. If you could convert just a quarter of those strategy nerds and their twitter followers, you would have a huge new fanbase.

Shea Serrano's twitter feed since he started following Oregon and Las Vegas is a one-man testament to the idea that if they right people start promoting the game, a new audience can be reached. I've read dozens of "I've never watched women's basketball, but this game is great!" comments on his twitter feed.

Up until 2013, I couldn't have cared less about women's basketball. I thought I would check out the local girl, Kayla McBride, playing for Notre Dame. I got hooked on ND. And later on the Sky when they drafted Delle Donne.

I just can't help but think that there's more like me out there who never gave women's basketball an honest chance and would love the product if they did give it a try. To me, that's always the question - how can we get more basketball fans to give this league a try?

In my opinion, there is much more to be done. It's not simply a case of "We're doing everything we can but people just won't come. Oh well."

That’s for the potshots. Much appreciated.

I started to read your laundry list of action items but it occurred to me that an awful lot of people would need to care about the W to make it work and most people just don’t. I’m a die-hard UConn fan and I want Our Girls to do well but I’ve never bothered to go see one play a pro game. I don’t think more advertising or blogs or support from the NBA would change anything either

But, hey, at least now you get another one of my opinions to denigrate

 

[psconn]

We love going to The Connecticut Sun Games. They draw at best 6000 people. I am still amazed the league has not folded. The teams are surely not making any money and they surely cannot compete with the overseas salaries.

In the interest of accuracy, the Sun averaged 6569 and had a high of 8040.

 

[Shades]

In the interest of accuracy, the Sun averaged 6569 and had a high of 8040.

How many of those are paying customers, especially with the Sun? They’re connected to the Casino which probably gives out plenty of complementary tickets.

 

[DICKG]

How many of those are paying customers, especially with the Sun? They’re connected to the Casino which probably gives out plenty of complementary tickets.

I think there are many comp tickets given to high rollers.

 

[psconn]

How many of those are paying customers, especially with the Sun? They’re connected to the Casino which probably gives out plenty of complementary tickets.

Ok, are you suggesting that some large percentage are comps? On a given night, how many do YOU think are giveaways? What do you base your guess on?

 

[j66kicker]

Ok, are you suggesting that some large percentage are comps? On a given night, how many do YOU think are giveaways? What do you base your guess on?

I don't remember the source, but have heard that up to half of all WNBA tix are freebies. I know that in Phoenix I can get Mercury tickets on the street outside the arena for less than face value. I have a buddy who was in the radio business. He still has contacts in the media who get him complimentary tix for various sporting events. One time he called to ask for this favor and the person he called told him they hoped he was going to be asking for some "easy" tickets like Mercury tix.

In the case of the Sun, the payback on the free tickets is an absolute no-brainer for the Casino, even if it's not for high rollers. The more people they can drag into Mohegan Sun, the more they will eat, drink and gamble. Giving away the tickets they haven't sold costs them absolutely nothing.

 

[crewbear742]

If WNBA players were actually paid what the market says they are worth, they would be paid on the same level as Arena Football. The league only exists because of NBA subsidies and would sink immediately in their absence. Elite level talent has no correlation with elite level paychecks.

The only way that WNBA players will see a substantial pay raise is if the NBA chooses to pay those salaries outside of the WNBA revenue stream. Of course the NBA will never do that because the WNBA would never be able to pay those salaries on its own. It would guarantee permanent dependence. There would also be pressure to increase that pay level over time to show "respect" for women's basketball. But how exactly do you set salaries in the absence of a market? There are answers to that question but you don't want to be the guy responsible to pay the money once the answer is given.

 

[psconn]

I don't remember the source, but have heard that up to half of all WNBA tix are freebies. I know that in Phoenix I can get Mercury tickets on the street outside the arena for less than face value. I have a buddy who was in the radio business. He still has contacts in the media who get him complimentary tix for various sporting events. One time he called to ask for this favor and the person he called told him they hoped he was going to be asking for some "easy" tickets like Mercury tix.

In the case of the Sun, the payback on the free tickets is an absolute no-brainer for the Casino, even if it's not for high rollers. The more people they can drag into Foxwoods, the more they will eat, drink and gamble. Giving away the tickets they haven't sold costs them absolutely nothing.

FYI, the CT Sun is not affiliated with Foxwoods. Maybe Shades has some actual info to flesh out his/her post.

 

[UConnNick]

FYI, the CT Sun is not affiliated with Foxwoods. Maybe Shades has some actual info to flesh out his/her post.

True, but it wouldn't be surprising if the casino management routinely buys or gets a certain allotment of tickets to distribute at their own discretion.