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Disrespected Again

DefenseBB

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Her win percentage would a heck of a lot less if she played the type of schedule that Geno, Pat, Muffet, and even Tara did or does. Geno, Pat and Muffet were almost always in the Top 5 and Tara in the Top 10 when it came to SoS, even in non-conference games.
I get the sentiment but what you offer here is simply conjecture as there are ZERO facts to back up your assertion. None of the metrics we use now to calculate strength of schedule existed before 2017. And while the SEC where Pat played and the 1999-2012 Big East were tougher conferences than the Big 12 (though how tougher is debatable), the PAC 12 was abysmal so to say Kim played far weaker teams is simply an opinion, not a fact.

The fact is Kim has won 4 titles, Tara 3, Dawn 3 and while you might not like the "style" points on how she did it, she did win those titles on the floor by beating all other teams she was pitted against in the tournament.

No one is disparaging Geno's legacy by those in the inner sanctum or Basketball knowledge-to get all up in "arms" over an ill-conceived proposition is silly and then using opinion as some proof is almost as ill-conceived.
 

MSGRET

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I get the sentiment but what you offer here is simply conjecture as there are ZERO facts to back up your assertion. None of the metrics we use now to calculate strength of schedule existed before 2017. And while the SEC where Pat played and the 1999-2012 Big East were tougher conferences than the Big 12 (though how tougher is debatable), the PAC 12 was abysmal so to say Kim played far weaker teams is simply an opinion, not a fact.

The fact is Kim has won 4 titles, Tara 3, Dawn 3 and while you might not like the "style" points on how she did it, she did win those titles on the floor by beating all other teams she was pitted against in the tournament.

No one is disparaging Geno's legacy by those in the inner sanctum or Basketball knowledge-to get all up in "arms" over an ill-conceived proposition is silly and then using opinion as some proof is almost as ill-conceived.
I'm talking about the number of cup cake wins that she has gotten vs Geno, Pat, Tara and Muffet. Take this year's schedule compared to UConn, South Carolina, Notre Dame, and Stanford. Kim has 10 Non Conference games scheduled against teams rated by Massey 201 - 360. Geno has 1 game and that was because of Pitt withdrawing from Aaliyah's homecoming game. Dawn has 3 games, Niele who has scheduled teams like Muffet did has 4 and Tara has 0. So these four coaches combined have 2 less games scheduled against cup cakes than Kim does. She has scheduled like that ever since she has been the Baylor coach. Look at their SoS, Geno #1, Dawn #2, Tara #13 and Niele #14, while Kim's is #97.
 

diggerfoot

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Really?
I am posting the first link Google produced. I’ve shared national studies on this in the past, but am too lazy to search for those specific ones again. No matter how many times I share studies on this I doubt it’s going to change what people have come to believe.

Waning Involvement
 
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We are dealing with an entirely different WCBB landscape than just even ten years ago. Geno's system just is not as effective with the present type of players. This has even filtered down to high school and projects it getting progressively worse. Before you guestion my intent, I will say I am old school and a fan of the type of system Geno runs. However, the womens games dynamics have changed so much that my fandom has wained considerable. In the present reality, objectively, it is not ridiculous that Geno has been demoted on the coaching scale. This is the new reality we are presently in.
“Geno’s system just is not as effectve with the present type of players” This is just silly! Since our last championship, “Geno” has lost two buzzer beaters in 2016-17 & 2017-18FFs, 2018-19-lost in FF, 2019-20- canceled, 2020-21-lost in FF, 2021-22-runner up in final, 2022-23-lost in sweet sixteen! The last three years were played under the weight of the worst stretch of injuries I have ever seen! I doubt there’s another coach ever who could have produced the results that Geno and his staff did under the same circumstances! With just two missed shots and a fully healthy roster over the same time period it is not a stretch at all that UConn could easily be sitting on 14-15 Nattys now! That does not equate to a “system“ that is no longer effective!

Have things changed? Certainly! Social media, NIL money, and the portal have completely changed the entire recruiting process. Kids (especially elite players) now have to be business oriented, they are looking at decisions that could make a difference of millions of dollars! They are looking at retirement levels of money before they even have a career! Couple that with pressure from parents (money pressure) family and friends, unscrupulous agents and the never ending search for “followers” and it’s easy to see that recruiting has become an absolute minefield!

Nevertheless, some things will never change, though they may become less common under the weight of all these negative influences!
The core standards of character, team orientation, hard work, selflessness, and responsibility that Geno and Chris built their program upon all those years ago still resonate with many players and their parents. Witness our current group of newcomers, KK, Ash, Q, Jana, and Ice! All good to great players who are also great people as well! Next year’s class of Allie & Morgan (and please, please, please, hopefully Sarah:rolleyes:) are the same.

Yes, Geno has missed out on some, especially bigs, who have also had those qualities but simply chose to go somewhere else. However, all the aforementioned players who did commit, did so because of the very “system” you are disparaging! UConn’s recent “struggles” imo, are not due to a failing “system” but rather to (primarily) injuries, with a dash of parity, recruiting misses, and some bad luck!

As for the coaching scale, the relevant numbers are 11 Nattys, including back to back, back to back to back, and back to back to back, to back, 28 conference championships, six undefeated seasons, and 19 including 14 in a row, How about we see what happens when (if:rolleyes:) he gets a fully healthy roster? Until then, I’m pretty sure Geno sleeps pretty soundly in terms of where he stands on the “coaching scale”! His sleepless nights are over trying to patch together, successfully I might add, an effective lineup from an injury depleted roster.
 

sun

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Coaches teach players to control that which they can control.
Applying that same philsophy, Kim recently became the coach to attain 600 wins quicker than anyone else.
I have little doubt that Geno employed a similar tactic to not lose 2 gamesin a row for so manhy years until recently.
It doesn't make him a bad person to control that which he can control.
It's part of the decision making process of being a coach.
 
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We are dealing with an entirely different WCBB landscape than just even ten years ago. Geno's system just is not as effective with the present type of players. This has even filtered down to high school and projects it getting progressively worse. Before you guestion my intent, I will say I am old school and a fan of the type of system Geno runs. However, the womens games dynamics have changed so much that my fandom has wained considerable. In the present reality, objectively, it is not ridiculous that Geno has been demoted on the coaching scale. This is the new reality we are presently in.
I think his system is still good. He’s been burned by too many injuries in the past 3-4 years. I can’t even say his recruiting is off because of those injuries. Too hard to tell. I do think he’s missing out on some very good players that aren’t on any lists of interest from us or for us. Too picky? Don’t know, but I’m ok with whoever he wants.
 
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Coaches teach players to control that which they can control.
Applying that same philsophy, Kim recently became the coach to attain 600 wins quicker than anyone else.
I have little doubt that Geno employed a similar tactic to not lose 2 gamesin a row for so manhy years until recently.
It doesn't make him a bad person to control that which he can control.
It's part of the decision making process of being a coach.
You should have big doubts, not little doubts. Even though Geno has joked about never scheduling 2 good teams in a row as being his explanation for the incredible streak. He never scheduled good team/cupcake/good team/cupcake. In fact, he almost never scheduled more than 1 or 2 cupcakes in a season. When he did schedule a cupcake it was often doing something nice for the opposing coach or a "home" game (see Toronto) for a player. Geno always had a very good (often the best) OOC SoS among all of the D1 teams. Most of the OOC games were clumped together because the conference schedule necessitated that. I think you should reconsider your assertion on tactics.
 

diggerfoot

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Coaches teach players to control that which they can control.
Applying that same philsophy, Kim recently became the coach to attain 600 wins quicker than anyone else.
I have little doubt that Geno employed a similar tactic to not lose 2 gamesin a row for so manhy years until recently.
It doesn't make him a bad person to control that which he can control.
It's part of the decision making process of being a coach.
The first game of the season has often been against a tough opponent. The one opener we lost was after a championship season, but even though he has won 11 of them that means over 2/3 of the time he starts a new season with a loss from the previous one. Lesson: if you are trying to avoid back-to-back losses you always schedule a cupcake for the first game of the season. Always. No exceptions.

You also avoid early season tournaments with a good field. Always. No exceptions.

Your lack of doubt regarding Auriemma’s intent in scheduling is breathtakingly off.
 

HuskyNan

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Not trying to derail this thread, but I have to interject. Its a darn shame that Egg Nog is only available in stores for a few weeks out of the year. A darn shame indeed.
72BC2EC8-8694-4933-BB95-EBD882D3F05D.jpeg
 

RedStickHusky

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Horribly misguided premise for an article but it led to some lively discussion. My own ludicrous hot take is that, in a sense, the game has caught up to Geno; As he always said it would some day. There are simply too many good teams, good coaches, and good players for a handful of schools to dominate, even though that's been the case for most of the history of the sport going back to the days of LA Tech and ODU. Sort of puts to bed that old argument about UConn being "bad for the sport". The sport is healthily competitive; not a bad thing and no reason to suggest that anybody has lost any steps.
 
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It seems that every day somebody writes something, or I see a video that says that UConn is down, UConn is finished, UConn is on the way out. Well, this thread actually doesn't address that, not even about the team at all. Last night while in bed I was surfing YouTube and I came across a video from Back to Back sports. The title was the 5 best womens basketball coaches. Ok, well, we will see how they rate the coaches after Gino. #1 was not Geno, but Dawn Staley. I guess I would let that one go, since she has been the top force the last few years, and I give her credit for that. #2, NOT Geno, but Kim. I didn't like that, because Kim is a portal person, a crazy woman who can't keep her players in order. I think her program is a complete mess. #3, OMG, NOT Geno, but Corie Close. Speechless, come on, are you kidding? As far as I can see, she shouldn't even be in the top 10. Geno was relegated to a tie with Tara for 4th and 5th place. This is an insult to the greatest WBB coach of all time. Yes, the team hasn't performed on the court like in the past, but because of all the injuries I think he has done a masterful job just to keep the team competitive. Geno will always be the GOAT, and I don't care about any of these hacks opinions. Geez.
Welcome to the media where eliciting a reaction/response out of those willing to take the bait is the most financially fruitful route. You gave them exactly what they wanted and, even more so, brought it to the attention of others who most likely would never have been aware of it. In the end, they won.

Ding ding ding! This is exactly the way to go about it in my humble opinion (which means less than nothing in the grand scheme of the world).

PS: I hope everyone had a very merry Christmas and/or happy holiday! <3
 
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Watching then and watching now. Watching The Good times and the bad times. Watching no injuries seasons and watching multiple seasons of injuries. Never shy to play the top teams.
I would say Geno is still one leg up on the competition.
 
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Coaches teach players to control that which they can control.
Applying that same philsophy, Kim recently became the coach to attain 600 wins quicker than anyone else.
I have little doubt that Geno employed a similar tactic to not lose 2 gamesin a row for so manhy years until recently.
It doesn't make him a bad person to control that which he can control.
It's part of the decision making process of being a coach.
When asked how UConn was able to play so long without having two losses in a row he replied that he has good schedulers.

I’m sure that Geno approves the final schedule but I doubt he directs changes to insert a cupcake between two ranked teams. Much of the scheduling is computerized and with teams playing the number of games they play today rearranging the order of the schedule would prove difficult. During the pandemic a game against South Carolina could not be made up due the tight schedules of both teams. Aside from the media making a big deal over that “record” it is not really of any value. I can see no reason why Geno would want to “pad” that number. If you want to know how well a coach prepares the team for each game just look at the overall win percentage.
 

HuskyNan

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Geno has little to no input on the Big East schedule. For big games, like South Carolina, the TV network sets the date and time.
 
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When asked how UConn was able to play so long without having two losses in a row he replied that he has good schedulers.

I’m sure that Geno approves the final schedule but I doubt he directs changes to insert a cupcake between two ranked teams. Much of the scheduling is computerized and with teams playing the number of games they play today rearranging the order of the schedule would prove difficult. During the pandemic a game against South Carolina could not be made up due the tight schedules of both teams. Aside from the media making a big deal over that “record” it is not really of any value. I can see no reason why Geno would want to “pad” that number. If you want to know how well a coach prepares the team for each game just look at the overall win percentage.
First sentence is Geno's sarcasm on full display.
 
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As someone once said, "Let's look at the record." For some reason many people feel that the "flavor of the day" is best. You listen to the radio and a DJ is telling you that a song at the top of the charts that day is "Number 1 of all time." Wow, what happened to some of the songs by Frank Sinatra, Elvis Presley, Nat Cole and some others? The people who crown LeBron James as the greatest of all times because he has accomplished so much during his career seem to forget that Bill Russell won two NCAA championships, an Olympic gold medal and more NBA championships than any player in history. There are standards and there are gold standards, and this is where Geno belongs and until any of these other coachs surpass him he remains #1 regardless of any penny ante poll.
 

MSGRET

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Well the Non-Conference games are basically done, with a couple of them being played during the Conference games. Looking at the AP Top 25 only four teams had a SoS above 50. Here is the Top 25 rankings with their Non-Conference SoS.

South Carolina - 2
UCLA - 7
NC State - 24
Iowa - 4
Texas - 30
USC - 34
LSU - 105
Colorado - 18
Stanford - 12
Baylor - 15
Kansas State - 39
Utah - 21
Notre Dame - 14
VA Tech - 40
UConn - 1
Indiana - 29
Ohio State - 8
Marquette - 74
Louisville - 19
Gonzaga - 9
Creighton - 11
Florida State - 22
TCU - 224
North Carolina - 26
W. Virginia - 136

Only two of the Top 25 have an SoS that is worse than LSU. What gets me is that teams that schedule like that get ranked. The Non-Conference schedule for these for teams should keep any team out of the T25. Marquette played 3 teams rated 200+ by Massey and no team rated in the top 50. West Virginia played 4 teams rated 200+ and no team rated in the top 50. TCU played 7 teams rated 200+ and 1 team in the top 50. LSU played 10 teams rated 200+ and 2 teams rated in the top 50.
 

Plebe

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Looking at the AP Top 25 only four teams had a SoS above 50. Here is the Top 25 rankings with their Non-Conference SoS.

South Carolina - 2
UCLA - 7
NC State - 24
Iowa - 4
Texas - 30
USC - 34
LSU - 105
...
Are you getting these SOS numbers from Massey?
Massey doesn't disaggregate nonconference SOS.
 

MSGRET

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Are you getting these SOS numbers from Massey?
Massey doesn't disaggregate nonconference SOS.
Yes I am and I know that he doesn't but almost all of the games played so far are non-conference.
 

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