Dishin & Swishin Podcast: Lin Dunn & Rebecca Lobo on the "UConn Dilemma"

[UcMiami]

Good stuff! As much as they suggest sitting in on successful teams practices and emulating what they do that's only part of the equation. Finding and successfully recruiting players that can change your program is the other component like Baylor or ND in recent years. Changing your practice habits isn't going to make you compete with the likes of KML or Stewie. You have to have players that bring some type of intangible to your team whether it be skill or attitude/competitiveness. Then, of course, you have to do something with them once you get them.

But ... getting great players and not giving them the coaching to succeed ends up with early round losses to Ball State or exits in the regionals year after year. And good coaching takes teams like Louisville and Cal to the FF with players who are not as 'talented' as the teams they defeated to get there.
It will be interesting to see what happens at UNC because they just got a TASSK like class but not a lot of people are expecting them to have TASSK like success. Duke has had a string of top three classes but still lost to UCONN BY 20, TN continued to recruit up a storm after Parker, but ..., etc. Geno gets very good players and a few exceptional ones, but they get better every year he has them. The same cannot be said about most other WBB college coaches. Same can be said for Muffet and Tara - ND is not loaded with superstar HS players and never has been nor is Stanford, but they compete, they get better, and they demand effort from their kids.
People complain about some of the blow outs we've had this year, but I actually enjoyed watching some of those teams more than Duke, because they were never going to win, but they fought hard for 40 minutes and their coach never stopped caring about each and every possession. And they never stopped teaching. So maybe they do not win against Uconn, but maybe they go back to their mid major and kick some .

 

[Icebear]

One question:

Since Geno seems to be so competitive would he welcome other coaches to learn from his practices? Maybe he likes dominating the game.

The suggestion that other coaches learn from the elite coaches was the main point of the conversation to me.

Yes, he welcomes teams that ask to watch his practices numerous times and has for many years.

 

[Tonyc]

The problem in the women's game with coaching is there seems to be no accountability. Some of these coach's seem to coach forever without winning anything or taking their program to a new level. If Geno never got a 7 digit salary most of the coach's would still be making less then $100,000 a year. When Geno got the big salary so did many other big name coach's. The problem is many of those coach's haven't done much lately. I compare that to a thermostat. You set a thermostat at 70degrees and the house heats up. When it hits 70 in the house the thermostat shuts off. That's the way it is with many coach's with high salaries and long term contracts. When they get that big contract they shut down or slow down and they've reached their goal. With Geno its not about the money. Much like many of the top coach's and players in all sports. Its about championships and records.

 

[easttexastrash]

FWIW I've been watching teams other than UCONN and other top teams and enjoying it. Last night I watched a game between BYU and Utah State that I had recorded and thought it was pretty good.
Utah State has a guard named Jennifer Schlott that scored 44 points in the previous game and she did pretty good. I mainly recorded the game because I wanted to watch Jen Hamson the 6' 7" center for BYU. BYU just got the ball to Hamson as much as they could and Utah State played "Hack-a-Shack" but still lost.
I like watching Kansas play because of the Gonzalez sisters and Louisville because of the Schimmel sisters.

I enjoy watching almost any game that is not a blowout. I have watched other teams this year and thoroughly enjoyed them.

Unless you are watching "your" team it is a real snooze fest to watch a layup drill when one team is just blowing another team out of the gym.

 

[David 76]

Let's not get too defensive because a Coach who has dedicated her life to women's basketball is concerned about our dominance. Unlike college football, WBB is still trying to win over fans. And when you are #1, you have a target on your back. I'm sure UCLA had to put up with a lot of garbage. And, except from those of us that are fortunate to be Yankee fans, the Yankees don't get a lot of love.

 

[easttexastrash]

Let's not get too defensive because a Coach who has dedicated her life to women's basketball is concerned about our dominance. Unlike college basketball, WBB is still trying to win over fans. And when you are #1, you have a target on your back. I'm sure UCLA had to put up with a lot of garbage. And, except from those of us that are fortunate to be Yankee fans, the Yankees don't get a lot of love.

This type of dominance is so unique that when you are part of it, it's such a splendid thing that it is hard to imagine that others may find it to be bad for the sport. But bad for the sport, IMO, means people saying "why watch when I already know what the outcome will be?"

Not sure of this, but what were the ratings like for UCONN vs Louisville in comparison to the previous 5 years?

As was pointed out, UCLA had close games, which probably made their situation different. Ive hated Baylor's schedule for the fact that it made many of their game completely irrelevant. And who cares if they are the highest scoring team in the nation if they aren't playing anyone. I never cite any of their team stats because they mean nothing due to the level of competition.

 

[easttexastrash]

Where are all these coaches that are as brilliant as Geno and coach K hanging out? Would CD be able to go to UT and compete with Geno?

Game against Baylor, do you want to see a good game or a blowout that would have viewers stop watching the game at half time?

 

[DobbsRover2]

Let's not get too defensive because a Coach who has dedicated her life to women's basketball is concerned about our dominance. Unlike college basketball, WBB is still trying to win over fans. And when you are #1, you have a target on your back. I'm sure UCLA had to put up with a lot of garbage. And, except from those of us that are fortunate to be Yankee fans, the Yankees don't get a lot of love.

What's love got to do with it? Everyone is just talking about greenbacks and fans in seats and eyeballs on TV sets. I have never heard a single piece of purported fact from the "woe is the UConn blowout" (most of them jealous schmucks) that would indicate that hordes of sports fans would be rushing to their view screen to watch a nailbitingly close Mississippi vs Alabama game instead of a UConn vs Duke blowout. Pundits like Dunn have a lot to complain about but no answers and even fewer cogent thoughts about that issue. "Well y'all, just get out there and get better and give UConn a game." Doesn't work that way, and I know Dunn is in the early phases of grappling with the issue and trying to make sense of it all, but she's been around women's basketball for many decades and her understanding of the situation of WCBB still seems a bit fuzzy.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Not sure of this, but what were the ratings like for UCONN vs Louisville in comparison to the previous 5 years?

Yep, ratings for the NC game were down a bit last year, but it's interesting to read what Sports Media Watch gave as the reason for that. Seems there was this team called Baylor with a star named Britney Griner who bailed out early. After that, the ratings for WCBB tournament games plummeted. I guess that is why the WCBB should never put a big egg in one basket, because if Humpty Dumpty falls, so do the ratings.

 

[UcMiami]

What's love got to do with it? Everyone is just talking about greenbacks and fans in seats and eyeballs on TV sets. I have never heard a single piece of purported fact from the "woe is the UConn blowout" (most of them jealous schmucks) that would indicate that hordes of sports fans would be rushing to their view screen to watch a nailbitingly close Mississippi vs Alabama game instead of a UConn vs Duke blowout. Pundits like Dunn have a lot to complain about but no answers and even fewer cogent thoughts about that issue. "Well y'all, just get out there and get better and give UConn a game." Doesn't work that way, and I know Dunn is in the early phases of grappling with the issue and trying to make sense of it all, but she's been around women's basketball for many decades and her understanding of the situation of WCBB still seems a bit fuzzy.

No question that the Uconn/LV games were 'the game' that everyone watched each year. When those went away, Uconn/Stanford, Uconn/ND, TN/Stanford, Uconn/Baylor, etc. became on a rotating basis the GAME. And to some degree there does need to be some suspense in a sports season to make the audience grow. So in that way, I can understand the concern being expressed. I think the NCAA will have some added fire this year as the story of Geno going for the record championship and doing it in TN will have some legs to it. And if Uconn succeeds this year, then story of trying to tie Wooden will also get some play next year. But a great champion is better for having a great opponent (see Wilt/Russell or Celtics/Lakers) and unless Louisville or ND can step up to the plate later this year, then there will not be much suspense. Pray ND remains undefeated as that would be a good story line for sure, but I doubt they roll through the ACC without one stumble at least.
Is this Uconn's fault, no.

 

[mhshuskies]

The best way to develop a team to reach the elite status may be to get Lynn Dunn for your coach. She was on the way to building a top program at Purdue when the dunderhead administrators forced her out. Carolyn Peck came in and won a championship with what Coach Dunn had built!

 

[ASweet3781]

I did like the discussion and they brought up some interesting points. They really didn't address the issue that makes UConn so dominant in some years.

When you sign #1 Tina Charles and #1 Maya Moore in back to back years, there's not much that can be done. Ditto when you sign #1 Kaleena Lewis and #1 Breanna Stewart in back to back years.

Game changers in WCBB can be counted on 2 hands. UConn got 4 of them between 2006-2012. You can't really stop some dominating years when that happens.

 

[stwainfan]

Isn't part of the reason that there are not more top teams. I mean teams that can win a championship. That some of the big colleges don't support WCBB. Some of them support football or men's basketball ect. I think WCBB needs more colleges supporting their teams.

 

[hoophuskee]

Loved the discussion, particularly about coaches needing to do what's necessary to improve and Dunn talking about how she had to improve when she began coaching in the WNBA.

I'm still, however, trying to get my head around Dunn's position on the issues surrounding UConn, blow-out games and ESPN. She seems to be all over the place. Remember, she started the discussion of UConn and blow-out games during the HOF tournament played around Thanksgiving when UConn blew out Boston U, Monmouth and St Bona. Those games weren't on ESPN so we can remove that issue from the equation. Dunn (via Twitter) was bothered by UConn beating up on lesser teams by 40-50 points. What she didn't mention or tweet about, of course, were the numerous blow-outs we were seeing every night in women's basketball when ranked teams play over-matched opponents. Instead, she chose to focus only on UConn and 3 games it played over a holiday weekend.

Dunn's position has since changed to where she now focuses on UConn games shown on ESPN. But even her position on that seems a little scattered. On the one hand she seems to be suggesting that ESPN not broadcast UConn games, but when challenged on that she backs off and says that ESPN should have chosen to broadcast different UConn games ("of course show conn! but not vs some opponents they've shown!"). ESPN has shown UConn v #3 Stanford, #8 Maryland, #2 Duke and #21 Cal. What other games should ESPN have selected to broadcast? Something is seriously wrong if ESPN is being told not to broadcast #1 v #2 in WCBB which is what Dunn seemed to be saying on twitter in this exchange with Carolyn Peck:

CAROLYN PECK
@coachlindunn @DishNSwish On paper Duke vs UCONN should've been good. Don't blame us for showing, blame teams for not showing up.

Lin Dunn ‏
@CAROLYNPECK @DishNSwish aaah has the Duke-- Uconn matchup been good lately?

How can choosing not to showcase the best team in a sport ever be good for that sport?

BTW, Dunn says that fans want to be entertained by competitive games and that she finds blow-outs boring. I know WCBB and college football are vastly different, but the margin of victory in Florida State's 13 wins this season were: 28, 55, 48, 34, 63, 37, 32, 27, 56, 56, 66, 30 and 38 points. Imagine if someone suggested that ESPN no longer televise Florida State football games because its games aren't competitive enough and are boring?

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon people. Just reading this comment back to Carolyn Peck- isn't it completely - and I mean completely --absurd? I have to say- this isn't meant to be personal at all - but how can anyone take Lin Dunn seriously ?

You know what this is like saying?

LeBron James as a high school senior commits to a powerhouse school like Duke or Kentucky. There are other 1st team college all-americans and other high school all-americans with a chance to be all-americans when he joins. BUTTTTT let's not show LeBron James because it will more than likely be a blowout. Especially if we look at history between LeBron's chosen school and the team he is playing. Even if they are number 2 at the time but LBJ's team has blown them out lately--don't show LeBron or the game.

What's embarrasing"for our game" is this professional championship coach saying something so absurd.

Do we realize how ridiculous her position is? She needs to stick to the WNBA.

And just to let someone like Lin Dunn know - I for one enjoy the WNBA games. I recognize players. There is NO WAY I am going to enjoy watching Coppin State/Utah State just because the score is close. It's why I don't watch very many men's games. The quality has dropped. And I don't watch European basketball for example on WNBA TV.

What Lin Dunn likes I won't watch. When UCONN at some point is no longer super elite - I still won't watch Utah State/Coppin State just because it's close. But I will watch 1 vs. 2 if I can.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

The problem is that Coach Dunn is putting several separate issues together. The only one she is off-base on has to do with broadcasting UConn games. The upsides include - showcasing great play, a large fan base, and name recognition to get the casual fan to turn on the game. The down-side is that you will lose the casual audience and most other women's basketball fans once the game turns into a blow-out; OTH you still retain your core UConn fan audience. And the amount of one team dominance will certainly turn off some casual viewers.

That said, I think that ESPN and other carriers do try to carry theoretically competitive games. Who knew UConn was going to be so dominant this season - but ok, I do question UConn vs. Cincy as a national game, which is probably due to the coaching connection. But in general, you see Tennessee play Vandy or Georgia, not Alabama; you see UNC play Duke or Maryland or Tech, not Clemson, etc. on national telecasts.

The separate issues of teams needing to step up, etc. I think are all valid; as is her view of what WBB fans prefer to watch.

 

[UConnCat]

The problem is that Coach Dunn is putting several separate issues together. The only one she is off-base on has to do with broadcasting UConn games. The upsides include - showcasing great play, a large fan base, and name recognition to get the casual fan to turn on the game. The down-side is that you will lose the casual audience and most other women's basketball fans once the game turns into a blow-out; OTH you still retain your core UConn fan audience. And the amount of one team dominance will certainly turn off some casual viewers.

That said, I think that ESPN and other carriers do try to carry theoretically competitive games. Who knew UConn was going to be so dominant this season - but ok, I do question UConn vs. Cincy as a national game, which is probably due to the coaching connection. But in general, you see Tennessee play Vandy or Georgia, not Alabama; you see UNC play Duke or Maryland or Tech, not Clemson, etc. on national telecasts.

The separate issues of teams needing to step up, etc. I think are all valid; as is her view of what WBB fans prefer to watch.

I enjoyed listening to Dunn's views on several issues during the podcast but I do think she veered off track when talking about UConn, blow-outs and ESPN.

As for Sunday's UConn/Cincy match-up, I doubt ESPN's selection of this had much to do Geno and Jamelle and more about counting on UConn fans to tune in and watch. It's a 5 pm slot on a NFL football Sunday and there aren't a lot of games to choose from. The other games involving top 25 teams on Sunday (throughout the afternoon) include:

Tenn v Lipscomb
Hartford v Penn State
Oral Roberts v Nebraska
SMU v Louisville (on ESPNU @ 3pm)
Grambling State v Kentucky
Oral Roberts v Nebraska
Tx-Pan Am v Ok State
Samford v OK
Southern Utah v Colorado
Lafayette v California
Notre Dame v Oregon State

 

[pinotbear]

No doubt the program is a power because of Coach Auriemma, but this year's team compared to the rest of WCBB, this season, is like Secretariat. An apprentice jockey could have ridden Secretariat to the Triple Crown.

In some years, a horse like Secretariat might not need a good jock to win the Triple Crown - but, not the year Secretariat won. People forget how good Sham was. Not only did Sham finish second in the Derby and Preakness, but it was a close second - in fact, it may still be true that the second-fastest time ever run in a Derby was Sham's 1:59 4/5, in losing to Secretariat by 2 lengths.

Folks remember Secretariat destroying the Belmont field by 31 lengths, and think that he was similarly dominant in the Derby and Preakness: he wasn't.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The best way to develop a team to reach the elite status may be to get Lynn Dunn for your coach. She was on the way to building a top program at Purdue when the dunderhead administrators forced her out. Carolyn Peck came in and won a championship with what Coach Dunn had built!

Probably shouldn't overdo the credit there, though Dunn did coach the incredible backcourt duo of Stephanie White-McCarty and Ukari Figgs for one year when they were freshmen. Dunn was forced out after the 1995-96 season, and the championship wouldn't come until three years later after first Nell Forten and then Peck coached the previous two seasons. Only two of the six main players for the Purdue played under Dunn, and half of them including Katie Douglas and center Camille Cooper played only under Peck through 1999, though obviously as sophomores that year it was Forten who recruited them.

So it was mixed bag of credit for that NC. One thing to be said for Peck was that from the beginning of the season, she had the Boilermakers thinking of one goal, the national championship, and that was coming off three straight UTenn NCs with Holdsclaw and Catchings leading the 1998-99 squad. Of course, since Peck was contracted to leave Purdue for the WNBA as soon as the season ended, it was then or never for her and Purdue. But with White-McCarty, Figgs, and Douglas roaming the backcourt, part of the key to success was not getting in the way of greatness and pumping the inspirational statements, the second of which Peck has always been good at.

 

[jsloanjr]

Coaches need to do a better job of in game and pre game coaching...........IMO, Geno could take the Duke team and make it a National Champ.......Coaches do make a difference......Coach P is a very good recruiter and a poor in game coach....Her players do not get better from year 1 to year 4 or 5..........This is the reason Europe and the WNBA look at UCONN players first..........

 

[UConnCat]

Probably shouldn't overdo the credit there, though Dunn did coach the incredible backcourt duo of Stephanie White-McCarty and Ukari Figgs for one year when they were freshmen. Dunn was forced out after the 1995-96 season, and the championship wouldn't come until three years later after first Nell Forten and then Peck coached the previous two seasons. Only two of the six main players for the Purdue played under Dunn, and half of them including Katie Douglas and center Camille Cooper played only under Peck through 1999, though obviously as sophomores that year it was Forten who recruited them.

So it was mixed bag of credit for that NC. One thing to be said for Peck was that from the beginning of the season, she had the Boilermakers thinking of one goal, the national championship, and that was coming off three straight UTenn NCs with Holdsclaw and Catchings leading the 1998-99 squad. Of course, since Peck was contracted to leave Purdue for the WNBA as soon as the season ended, it was then or never for her and Purdue. But with White-McCarty, Figgs, and Douglas roaming the backcourt, part of the key to success was not getting in the way of greatness and pumping the inspirational statements, the second of which Peck has always been good at.

After Dunn and asst Machelle Joseph were fired, 5 Purdue players asked for permission to contact other schools regarding a transfer. Ukari Figgs was among the 5 but obviously chose to stay at Purdue. Summer Erb transferred to NC State. Nicole Erickson and Michelle Van Gorp transferred to Duke and were key players on the 1998-1999 Duke team that upset Tennessee in the Elite 8 and stopped the Lady Vol's run of 3 consecutive National Championships. Duke headed to its first Final Four which was in San Jose and it was while attending this Final Four that Jamelle Elliott learned of her mother's tragic death.

 

[bbsamjj]

I did like the discussion and they brought up some interesting points. They really didn't address the issue that makes UConn so dominant in some years.

When you sign #1 Tina Charles and #1 Maya Moore in back to back years, there's not much that can be done. Ditto when you sign #1 Kaleena Lewis and #1 Breanna Stewart in back to back years.

Game changers in WCBB can be counted on 2 hands. UConn got 4 of them between 2006-2012. You can't really stop some dominating years when that happens.

I think that is the issue that is most frustrating for WCBB fans/coaches--you (mostly) need a game changer to win a championship, and when a team has 2 (as UConn has), it's almost impossible to stop.

If you look at the last 10 women's national champions, I'd say 7 of them had "game changers:"

2004 UConn--DT
2005 Baylor--no game changer
2006 Maryland--no "game changer" though 3-4 future WNBA players on that roster
2007/2008 UT--Parker
2009/2010 UConn--Moore and Charles (though while Charles was ranked #1, she made herself into a game changer, while Moore/DT/Parker all started out that way)
2011 Texas A&M--no game changer
2012 Baylor--Griner
2013 UConn--Stewart, KML (though I put Stewart at a higher game changer category than KML)

It is true that other teams have talent--some of them have a lot of it. But to compete with UConn, and heck, even to almost win a national championship, you need a game changer. When UConn had the their championship "drought" from 2005-2008, it was because they lacked a great, game-changing player on their roster (Strother was supposed to be that, but never lived up to her #1 ranking). Similarly, UT got back in the groove when they found their game changer Parker. Heck even to get to the Final Four it helps to have a game changer. Why have Stanford and ND been to the final four so often? Yes, great coaching. But both had top 3 players (coming out of hs) in Diggins and Ogwumike (who may have been #1).

Talent isn't all of it. Augustus/Fowles should have probably won a title (or at least got to a championship game). So should have the Latta/Larkins/Little UNC teams (who did get to two Final Fours). That Stanford team with Appel/Peterson/Ogwumike probably could only have been beat by that Moore/Charles UConn team. And that Harding/Bales/Waner Duke team was just the product of absurdly bad luck versus Maryland and Rutgers (I've watched that RU-Duke game a dozen times, and there were A LOT of things that went right for RU, even before Harding's missed FTs).

 

[hoophuskee]

The problem is that Coach Dunn is putting several separate issues together. The only one she is off-base on has to do with broadcasting UConn games. The upsides include - showcasing great play, a large fan base, and name recognition to get the casual fan to turn on the game. The down-side is that you will lose the casual audience and most other women's basketball fans once the game turns into a blow-out; OTH you still retain your core UConn fan audience. And the amount of one team dominance will certainly turn off some casual viewers.

That said, I think that ESPN and other carriers do try to carry theoretically competitive games. Who knew UConn was going to be so dominant this season - but ok, I do question UConn vs. Cincy as a national game, which is probably due to the coaching connection. But in general, you see Tennessee play Vandy or Georgia, not Alabama; you see UNC play Duke or Maryland or Tech, not Clemson, etc. on national telecasts.

The separate issues of teams needing to step up, etc. I think are all valid; as is her view of what WBB fans prefer to watch.

I don't believe "the voice" has credibility. It's like Andrew Bargnani being the voice of strategy basketball when he just recently took a 3-pointer with his team up by only 2 with about 12 seconds left in which the Knicks could have run out the clock. The other points she makes are irrelevant if she can't understand that if you have a chance to show 1 vs 2 --you do it. As stated above if the voice is saying in any fashion "don't show LeBron" then there needs to be another voice regardless of the other points that are made. Get someone else with more credibility to make the points. IMO her view would continue to pursue "don't show LeBron- don't show LeBron - don't show LeBron, yet still speak of "what's good for the game."

 

[DobbsRover2]

After Dunn and asst Machelle Joseph were fired, 5 Purdue players asked for permission to contact other schools regarding a transfer. Ukari Figgs was among the 5 but obviously chose to stay at Purdue. Summer Erb transferred to NC State. Nicole Erickson and Michelle Van Gorp transferred to Duke and were key players on the 1998-1999 Duke team that upset Tennessee in the Elite 8 and stopped the Lady Vol's run of 3 consecutive National Championships. Duke headed to its first Final Four which was in San Jose and it was while attending this Final Four that Jamelle Elliott learned of her mother's tragic death.

We'll never know what would have happened if Dunn had been able to stay at Purdue with a really talented group. Erickson and Van Gorp would have been gone before the 1998-99 year if they had stayed at Purdue, and whether the team could have become strong enough to beat out UTenn in the 1996-97 or 1997-98 years under Dunn with a full cast is unknowable. They reached the 2nd round under Fortner the next year after the defections, and reached the Elite 8 under Peck with the help of a good group recruited by Fortner. Possibly Dunn could have taken the Boilermakers all the way, but Peck was the one who got the chance to do it over the two ex-Purdue players of Dunn's at Duke.

 

[Striper69]

Bill Russell, Dave Debusschere. Larry Bird, Pat Riley, Wes Unseld, Pat Summit, C. Vivian Stringer, Richard Williams; Just off the top of my head. Whether it is right or wrong is only important if a long time assistant gets passed over for bogus reasons. Very good experienced coaches have failed. Very inexperienced coaches have succeeded.

So you're saying it doesn't make a difference.

 

[mhshuskies]

I think that is the issue that is most frustrating for WCBB fans/coaches--you (mostly) need a game changer to win a championship, and when a team has 2 (as UConn has), it's almost impossible to stop.

If you look at the last 10 women's national champions, I'd say 7 of them had "game changers:"

2004 UConn--DT
2005 Baylor--no game changer
2006 Maryland--no "game changer" though 3-4 future WNBA players on that roster
2007/2008 UT--Parker
2009/2010 UConn--Moore and Charles (though while Charles was ranked #1, she made herself into a game changer, while Moore/DT/Parker all started out that way)
2011 Texas A&M--no game changer
2012 Baylor--Griner
2013 UConn--Stewart, KML (though I put Stewart at a higher game changer category than KML)

It is true that other teams have talent--some of them have a lot of it. But to compete with UConn, and heck, even to almost win a national championship, you need a game changer. When UConn had the their championship "drought" from 2005-2008, it was because they lacked a great, game-changing player on their roster (Strother was supposed to be that, but never lived up to her #1 ranking). Similarly, UT got back in the groove when they found their game changer Parker. Heck even to get to the Final Four it helps to have a game changer. Why have Stanford and ND been to the final four so often? Yes, great coaching. But both had top 3 players (coming out of hs) in Diggins and Ogwumike (who may have been #1).

Talent isn't all of it. Augustus/Fowles should have probably won a title (or at least got to a championship game). So should have the Latta/Larkins/Little UNC teams (who did get to two Final Fours). That Stanford team with Appel/Peterson/Ogwumike probably could only have been beat by that Moore/Charles UConn team. And that Harding/Bales/Waner Duke team was just the product of absurdly bad luck versus Maryland and Rutgers (I've watched that RU-Duke game a dozen times, and there were A LOT of things that went right for RU, even before Harding's missed FTs).