Dishin & Swishin Podcast: Lin Dunn & Rebecca Lobo on the "UConn Dilemma"

[mhshuskies]

I think that is the issue that is most frustrating for WCBB fans/coaches--you (mostly) need a game changer to win a championship, and when a team has 2 (as UConn has), it's almost impossible to stop.

If you look at the last 10 women's national champions, I'd say 7 of them had "game changers:"

2004 UConn--DT
2005 Baylor--no game changer
2006 Maryland--no "game changer" though 3-4 future WNBA players on that roster
2007/2008 UT--Parker
2009/2010 UConn--Moore and Charles (though while Charles was ranked #1, she made herself into a game changer, while Moore/DT/Parker all started out that way)
2011 Texas A&M--no game changer
2012 Baylor--Griner
2013 UConn--Stewart, KML (though I put Stewart at a higher game changer category than KML)

It is true that other teams have talent--some of them have a lot of it. But to compete with UConn, and heck, even to almost win a national championship, you need a game changer. When UConn had the their championship "drought" from 2005-2008, it was because they lacked a great, game-changing player on their roster (Strother was supposed to be that, but never lived up to her #1 ranking). Similarly, UT got back in the groove when they found their game changer Parker. Heck even to get to the Final Four it helps to have a game changer. Why have Stanford and ND been to the final four so often? Yes, great coaching. But both had top 3 players (coming out of hs) in Diggins and Ogwumike (who may have been #1).

Talent isn't all of it. Augustus/Fowles should have probably won a title (or at least got to a championship game). So should have the Latta/Larkins/Little UNC teams (who did get to two Final Fours). That Stanford team with Appel/Peterson/Ogwumike probably could only have been beat by that Moore/Charles UConn team. And that Harding/Bales/Waner Duke team was just the product of absurdly bad luck versus Maryland and Rutgers (I've watched that RU-Duke game a dozen times, and there were A LOT of things that went right for RU, even before Harding's missed FTs).

And nd had a "game changer" (or at least one of the "Three to see") but couldn't get it done. Coaching not good enough?

 

[Striper69]

Just make sure you contact them first "Coach"

After watching the 30 for 30 episode about Paul Westhead I don't know if I'd want to try to be a BB coach. He won a NBA championship and was fired the next season because Magic didn't like him. Then he bounced around until he got Hank Gaithers and Bo Kimball and probably would've won the NCAA championship if Hank hadn't died on the court. On top of that he almost got sued because he let Hank play.
How long did he stay with the PHX Mercury and why didn't he stay with them?

Now as we all know he coaches Oregon.

Guess you gotta love the game but it must be hard to earn a living doing it.

 

[Striper69]

No doubt the program is a power because of Coach Auriemma, but this year's team compared to the rest of WCBB, this season, is like Secretariat. An apprentice jockey could have ridden Secretariat to the Triple Crown.

I'm not so sure about that.

I've watched the Utah State- BYU game again and I think that if BYU has a pretty good team in addition to the 6' 7" center Jen Hamson. If they can jell a little more I think they can give UCONN a good game if they meet in the NCAAs. If Hamson can improve her free throw shooting and make enough of the short range shots she gets then they can go far.
I've recorded this weekend's game but haven't watched it yet. I think Hamson may be the sleeper draft pick this year and maybe should be #1. She's raw and has a lot of potential.
I still think Jennifer Schlott could be as good as Simms. They just need to learn how to set her up when the other team glues a defender on her. 5' 6" and gets a "Triangle and Two" defense along with another girl on Utah State. LOL

 

[bbsamjj]

And nd had a "game changer" (or at least one of the "Three to see") but couldn't get it done. Coaching not good enough?

As I said, Diggins was a very, very good player, and she took her team to three final fours and 2 championship games. But she went third in the draft, and that's because she was behind two game changers--Griner and Del Donne.

I put Diggins more on a Candice Wiggins level--All American, but not "game changer" level.

 

[Striper69]

After watching the UCONN- Cinn game it seems to me that their argument that other coaches should go see UCONN practices to help their programs doesn't seem to hold water. Cinnci's coach was Geno's assistant coach and it didn't help her very much. The game started out 16-0. They couldn't get past UCONN's full court press nor could they get or make good shots.

 

[Icebear]

After watching the UCONN- Cinn game it seems to me that their argument that other coaches should go see UCONN practices to help their programs doesn't seem to hold water. Cinnci's coach was Geno's assistant coach and it didn't help her very much. The game started out 16-0. They couldn't get past UCONN's full court press nor could they get or make good shots.

Think about it some more. Consider the available talent at Cincinati. Maybe the issue isn't their practice habits but the skill level of the players in those practices. I thought Jamelle's team fought hard to compete. Pracxtice is probably where that attitude was formed.

 

[Striper69]

Sorry but I'm not buying it.

 

[DobbsRover2]

After watching the UCONN- Cinn game it seems to me that their argument that other coaches should go see UCONN practices to help their programs doesn't seem to hold water. Cinnci's coach was Geno's assistant coach and it didn't help her very much. The game started out 16-0. They couldn't get past UCONN's full court press nor could they get or make good shots.

It's not always wise to base your opinion about a team and WCBB practices in general off of one game. I was watching a game back on December 22 where the team I was rooting for couldn't buy a basket for almost the first three minutes and still only had 8 points past the 6 minute mark, but I don't remember really thinking that this UConn team is a bunch of practice lazy-butts with a coach who doesn't know how to make players learn how to guard a chair. Just knew things would snap into place.

A lot of teams get toasted by the UConn defense early on and in the first game if they're a conference mate, and maybe they'll shoot better the next game. The Bearcats did have a narrow loss to FSU and beat OSU, so they have potential. At some point, things will start snapping into place more often and maybe they'll look better against the top 25 teams.

 

[ThisJustIn]

"Best practices."I hate that phrase because it's used so often by people who miss the point -- you don't read or watch "best practices," you PRACTICE them. And then, when you do, you realize that, while a rising tide raises all boats, some boats will go higher because 1) they have better players and 2) their coach is just that good.

I think #2 will apply as long as Geno is UConn's head coach. He is just that good.

#1 came about because of his skills. Some of those skills are transferable, some are not.

So, what are the transferable skills, habits and practices that we would hope other coaches would transfer to their own practice? Here's a starter list:

Conditioning. It's often said that UConn is the best conditioned team around. What is the program/process? (Granted, you then have to get the players to buy in and push themselves.)

Precision. If basketball is a game of inches, Geno measures every quarter of an inch. Spacing, angles, screens, passing. Players are not allowed to be sloppy with their play because his standard (and eye) is so high.

Assistant Coaching. He understands who he needs to complement him. I'm betting that comes from accurate self-reflection on what his strengths and weaknesses (or tendencies?) are as a coach. If you were to create a rubric for coaching, I might start with these heading: Communication Skills, Game Prep, In Game Adjustments, Half Time Adjustments, End of Game Management, Post-Game Analysis, Staff Management, Practice Management, Professional Development... and so on. (It's REALLY hard to make a useful rubric, but it can be really....useful. Like a SWOT analysis.)

I'm not going to start on the off-court work - relationship with AD, University, Athletic Programs, Fans, High Schools, AAU programs, Community, Parents, Media....

 

[Striper69]

I watched the BYU-LMU game last night. I'm really impressed with them (BYU) and I think they'd match up pretty good with UCONN. Too bad we'll have to wait until the championship game to find out if at all.

 

[VAUConnFan]

In some years, a horse like Secretariat might not need a good jock to win the Triple Crown - but, not the year Secretariat won. People forget how good Sham was. Not only did Sham finish second in the Derby and Preakness, but it was a close second - in fact, it may still be true that the second-fastest time ever run in a Derby was Sham's 1:59 4/5, in losing to Secretariat by 2 lengths.

Folks remember Secretariat destroying the Belmont field by 31 lengths, and think that he was similarly dominant in the Derby and Preakness: he wasn't.

Secretariat was, in fact, similarly dominant in the Derby and Preakness in that he set records in all three triple crown races; Records that still stand 40 years later. Sham, with the great Laffit Pincay aboard, was as good as you say. But, when a horse runs three consecutive record shattering races at that level, it defines dominance.

 

[VAUConnFan]

So you're saying it doesn't make a difference.

It makes a difference, but there has been some success among inexperienced coaches. My feeling is and will pretty much always be that great players make great coaches.

 

[Icebear]

It makes a difference, but there has been some success among inexperienced coaches. My feeling is and will pretty much always be that great players make great coaches.

But weak coaches can always undermine great talent, too.

 

[pinotbear]

Secretariat was, in fact, similarly dominant in the Derby and Preakness in that he set records in all three triple crown races; Records that still stand 40 years later. Sham, with the great Laffit Pincay aboard, was as good as you say. But, when a horse runs three consecutive record shattering races at that level, it defines dominance.

Oh, absolutely - Secretariat was the epitome of dominance. But, my point was to address the notion that he was so dominant that the jock was somewhat irrelevant. Despite the tremendous times in the Derby and Preaknesss, the margin of victory was just a couple of fifths of a second over Sham. In a race that close, I just figure that the jockey has to matter - and, as you imply, Pincay may have made a greater difference for Sham than Turcotte made for Big Red. Regardless, what horses! What rides!

 

[David 76]

Three things
1 All the poor woman said, other than a lot of generalities, was that ESPN probably should not carry UCONN-Cinci in addition to a lot of other UCONN games. Chill fans!
2 It is the expectation that a game will be good that gets people to watch. No one knows if it will be a close game when they begin to watch. (Ironically, Dunn et al lower those expectations)
3 The problem is not that no one can compete with us. (This year may look that way but last year Baylor was favored to win, ND was kicking our butt). We won 8 Championships in 19 years so we were beaten 11 years. The problem is that there are never more than six teams that can get to the final four. So many times you , on day 1 of the season, could have penciled in Tenn. UCONN, Stanford into the final four.

​

​

 

[pinotbear]

Three things
1 All the poor woman said, other than a lot of generalities, was that ESPN probably should not carry UCONN-Cinci in addition to a lot of other UCONN games. Chill fans!
2 It is the expectation that a game will be good that gets people to watch. No one knows if it will be a close game when they begin to watch. (Ironically, Dunn et al lower those expectations)
3 The problem is not that no one can compete with us. (This year may look that way but last year Baylor was favored to win, ND was kicking our butt). We won 8 Championships in 19 years so we were beaten 11 years. The problem is that there are never more than six teams that can get to the final four. So many times you , on day 1 of the season, could have penciled in Tenn. UCONN, Stanford into the final four.

​

​

ayup. "pencil" in Tennessee - that eraser comes in handy.

 

[David 76]

ayup. "pencil" in Tennessee - that eraser comes in handy.

Well, that penciling was a while back. Now : UCONN, ND, Stanford. The other slot is for your L'Ville, Baylor, Duke of the year.