Discuss the Pats rebuild.

[Deepster]

As I said, 3,800 yards and a 22/13 TD:INT ratio as a rookie is quite serviceable and last time I checked, the 4th QB on the AFC Pro Bowl roster is a Pro Bowler nonetheless. He led the AFC passers with 112 yards in the game itself.

Are you trying to ruin all of your credibility?

Here are some recent "Pro Bowl QB's" - Mitch Trubisky, Ryan Tannehill and Tyler Huntley.

 

[Husky25]

Are you trying to ruin all of your credibility?

Here are some recent "Pro Bowl QB's" - Mitch Trubisky, Ryan Tannehill and Tyler Huntley.

What? You mean Zach Wilson didn't make the list?

Trubisky was 11-3 when he made the Pro Bowl, in his second season and his star was rising. Tannehill was quite serviceable with Tennessee. He was also named CPOY. I have no explanation for Huntley other than a ballot stuffing prank.

Be that as it may, the Jets would welcome all three of those guys to compete for starts next season. They may have to, considering Rodgers takes up $49M under their cap.

I am just stating facts. I also find it interesting that no consideration is even being paid to 3,800 yards, 23 TD vs. only 13 INTs and a playoff appearance as a rookie, with Josh McDaniels as his offensive coordinator.

 

[Deepster]

What? You mean Zach Wilson didn't make the list?

Trubisky was 11-3 when he made the Pro Bowl, in his second season and his star was rising. Tannehill was quite serviceable with Tennessee. He was also named CPOY. I have no explanation for Huntley other than a ballot stuffing prank.

Be that as it may, the Jets would welcome all three of those guys to compete for starts next season. They may have to, considering Rodgers takes up $49M under their cap.

I am just stating facts. I also find it interesting that no consideration is even being paid to 3,800 yards, 23 TD vs. only 13 INTs and a playoff appearance as a rookie, with Josh McDaniels as his offensive coordinator.

I'm all for rose-colored glasses but sometimes you have no semblance in reality whatsoever....like listing Mac Jones had 112 yds passing in a Pro Bowl. That's maybe the dumbest stat I've ever seen used to make a point on this board. No offense.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Back to rebuild topic if you guys are done insulting each other. Draft board is already starting to shuffle and that will continue. It's like people forget every year that the Senior Bowl and Combine will create risers and fallers. Looks like Carter may go before pick #4. I still think it's defense at #4 or trade back. Some fans complaining that QBs not going 1-2 means we don't get Carter. Ok. It also means the Raiders will want #4. Trade back, take a LT, load up on 2nd round picks.

Vrabel gets his right hand man, who now also has some insight into what McVay does. Can't hurt.

 

[Husky25]

I'm all for rose-colored glasses but sometimes you have no semblance in reality whatsoever....like listing Mac Jones had 112 yds passing in a Pro Bowl. That's maybe the dumbest stat I've ever seen used to make a point on this board. No offense.

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. His performance put him in line for the honor. Not even that. The overarching point is what McDaniels was able to do with him and what might have been if McDaniels wasn't hired away or Jones was mishandled in 2022.

C'est la vie. The Patriots have their head guy, a supremely competent play caller, and promising QB. I like where they are and seem to be headed.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. His performance put him inline for the honor. Not even that. The overarching point is what McDaniels was able to do with him and what might have been if McDaniels wasn't hired away or Jones was mishandled in 2022.

C'est la vie. The Patriots have their head guy, a supremely competent play caller, and promising QB. I like where they are and seem to be headed.

Nobody was going to make Mac "good". His arm is just too limited. But that validates how good a job they did to work within his limitations. With Maye, I'm looking forward to it.

There was no winning in that draft. Six QBs went. Lawrence, the can't miss guy, has been just serviceable. The other five aren't even that (although Fields is close to it). Maybe it was Covid, but the evaluations in that draft were awful.

 

[Waquoit]

In Mac Jones best game, he only threw the ball 3 times.

 

[Deepster]

I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. His performance put him in line for the honor. Not even that. The overarching point is what McDaniels was able to do with him and what might have been if McDaniels wasn't hired away or Jones was mishandled in 2022.

C'est la vie. The Patriots have their head guy, a supremely competent play caller, and promising QB. I like where they are and seem to be headed.

I’m not missing anything. No one wants to play in that dumb meaningless game and he may have been the 10th choice.

 

[Husky25]

I’m not missing anything. No one wants to play in that dumb meaningless game and he may have been the 10th choice.

Evidence to the contrary. You keep focusing on the Pro Bowl itself. I use it to demonstrate what Josh McDaniels can do for a player not named Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr.

The Jets would kill for the type of production, (then) promise, and results that Mac Jones displayed during his rookie season.

In Mac Jones best game, he only threw the ball 3 times.

This is a foolish statement. Jones did what was asked within the confines of the Belichick/McDaniels gameplan that night (which oddly enough is his job) and the team won, but that was nowhere near Jones's best game of the season.

Jones's best games that season were in a loss vs the Cowboys and wins vs. the Jets, Browns, Titans, and Jags.

 

[Deepster]

I think I'm as realistic a Jets fan as you'll find and I have no issue saying both Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson will end up as good (if not better) than Mac Jones when it's all said and done. Mac Jones is as vanilla and generic a QB as you'll ever see.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think I'm as realistic a Jets fan as you'll find and I have no issue saying both Sam Darnold and Zach Wilson will end up as good (if not better) than Mac Jones when it's all said and done. Mac Jones is as vanilla and generic a QB as you'll ever see.

Well, Darnold is already clearly ahead after this year. Wilson, hard to say. He seems to have the brain of a 12 year old boy. Has all the physical gifts to be a good NFL QB and he couldn't get to 2nd string in Denver. Jones started a bunch of games and was clearly the #2, so he's pretty far ahead of Wilson right now. He is vanilla and generic, but sometimes that's better than the alternative. Even Trey Lance got into a game this year, although not beating out Cooper Rush (vanilla, generic) isn't encouraging.

If I had to pick a failed starter who is now a backup to break out and become a quality starter, I'd pick Sam Howell. Has the physical talent and didn't really play that badly. Was just rushed a bit.

If Geno Smith were released or traded by March 16, Seattle would save $31 million in cap and cash. It wouldn't surprise me to see him traded one of the QB needy teams.

 

[Deepster]

Well, Darnold is already clearly ahead after this year. Wilson, hard to say. He seems to have the brain of a 12 year old boy. Has all the physical gifts to be a good NFL QB and he couldn't get to 2nd string in Denver. Jones started a bunch of games and was clearly the #2, so he's pretty far ahead of Wilson right now. He is vanilla and generic, but sometimes that's better than the alternative. Even Trey Lance got into a game this year, although not beating out Cooper Rush (vanilla, generic) isn't encouraging.

If I had to pick a failed starter who is now a backup to break out and become a quality starter, I'd pick Sam Howell. Has the physical talent and didn't really play that badly. Was just rushed a bit.

If Geno Smith were released or traded by March 16, Seattle would save $31 million in cap and cash. It wouldn't surprise me to see him traded one of the QB needy teams.

I watched most, if not all, of Wilson's starts. I could see him in a smaller Baker Mayfield type arc if things really fell right for him. He definitely has far better physical tools across the board over Jones...but yes, as you said a dime store brain.

 

[Husky25]

Well, Darnold is already clearly ahead after this year. Wilson, hard to say. He seems to have the brain of a 12 year old boy. Has all the physical gifts to be a good NFL QB and he couldn't get to 2nd string in Denver. Jones started a bunch of games and was clearly the #2, so he's pretty far ahead of Wilson right now. He is vanilla and generic, but sometimes that's better than the alternative. Even Trey Lance got into a game this year, although not beating out Cooper Rush (vanilla, generic) isn't encouraging.

If I had to pick a failed starter who is now a backup to break out and become a quality starter, I'd pick Sam Howell. Has the physical talent and didn't really play that badly. Was just rushed a bit.

If Geno Smith were released or traded by March 16, Seattle would save $31 million in cap and cash. It wouldn't surprise me to see him traded one of the QB needy teams.

Sam Howell wasn't a failed starter, per se. In fact a rumor surfaced leading up to the Detroit game that it was not Ben Johnson who pulled out of the Washington HC interview last year while the hiring committee was in the air. Johnson wanted Howell to start and use pick #2 on something else. Adam Peters cancelled the meeting and turned the plane around.

At the end of the day, Washington not having the personnel, their coordinators not adjusting to their players' best attributes, and Ron Rivera being mediocre at best at both being a GM and a head coach all hurt Howell. He has the arm strength, but he is shorter than ideal. After a few batted passes, he rarely threw the ball over the middle because he can't see or get the ball over his linemen.

It was a good move by both teams at the time. I would love for Howell to get another chance and I believe he has one more year on his rookie deal...and on short money. OTOH, Geno Smith also has one more year, but Smith evidently posted a "cryptic" message about Pete Carroll, who is being hired in Vegas. Perhaps he's trying to work a trade?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Sam Howell wasn't a failed starter, per se. In fact a rumor surfaced leading up to the Detroit game that it was not Ben Johnson who pulled out of the Washington HC interview last year while the hiring committee was in the air. Johnson wanted Howell to start and use pick #2 on something else. Adam Peters cancelled the meeting and turned the plane around.

At the end of the day, Washington not having the personnel, their coordinators not adjusting to their players' best attributes, and Ron Rivera being mediocre at best at both being a GM and a head coach all hurt Howell. He has the arm strength, but he is shorter than ideal. After a few batted passes, he rarely threw the ball over the middle because he can't see or get the ball over his linemen.

It was a good move by both teams at the time. I would love for Howell to get another chance and I believe he has one more year on his rookie deal...and on short money. OTOH, Geno Smith also has one more year, but Smith evidently posted a "cryptic" message about Pete Carroll, who is being hired in Vegas. Perhaps he's trying to work a trade?

Yeah, that is my point really. Seattle getting him was smart. He's 6'1". Same as Mayfield, Hurts, Tua, Caleb Williams. So throwing over the middle is just coaching and arm angle adjustments. Has some wheels and a decent arm. He seems like a guy that could be pretty good in the right situation.

As for the Rebuild: new hires.

• Ashton Grant: QB coach. Comes from Cleveland. Background includes stints with WR, TE and passing game coordinator. My sense is he's considered a really sharp guy who was obviously being groomed as a future OC. Also worked with Chad O'Shea so has exposure to the McDaniels approach.
• Riley Larkin. Young guy from Ohio State. We know Vrabel likes Ryan Day, so they get a guy who worked for him. Will be there to learn, bring some college ideas.
• Tony Dews. RB coach from the Jets, previously with the Titans. Derek Henry liked him. Lots of experience.

 

[Waquoit]

The Jags of all teams made a better hire.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Jags of all teams made a better hire.

Coen? Seriously? He's a huge gamble.

 

[Husky25]

The Jags of all teams made a better hire.

Better than who? The Patriots? Coen was certainly the hot name this cycle.

I didn't know much about him but his track record of jumping around between teams and levels is a bit concerning. The Jags are his 5th spot in 5 years. Seems like he'd be the posterchild of the concern if he can handle the additional administration as well as the Xs & Os that I mentioned above. It's also strange that he pulled himself out of consideration last week, only to end up there. Khan evidently fired his GM to bring Coen back. Odd.

OTOH (and apropos of nothing), I saw at lunch that Bobby Slowik, one of last cycles' hot targets, was fired in Houston. His only HC interview during this cycle was with the Jets. I think he'd be a good pick up for them, if he ends up there.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Better than who? The Patriots? Coen was certainly the hot name this cycle.

I didn't know much about him but his track record of jumping around between teams and levels is a bit concerning. The Jags are his 5th spot in 5 years. Seems like he'd be the posterchild of the concern if he can handle the additional administration as well as the Xs & Os that I mentioned above. It's also strange that he pulled himself out of consideration last week, only to end up there. Khan evidently fired his GM to bring Coen back. Odd.

OTOH (and apropos of nothing), I saw at lunch that Bobby Slowik, one of last cycles' hot targets, was fired in Houston. His only HC interview during this cycle was with the Jets. I think he'd be a good pick up for them, if he ends up there.

Let's look at trends. Washington brought in an old school, get it done, fundamentals, defense coach. They are in the NFC championship. Patriots hired a similar guy. Raiders (with Brady input) hired Carroll. Jets went with the older, experienced DC Aaron Glen, not the flashy 30 year old offensive guy.

Bears went with Johnson, but he's been around longer than Coen and has a much better resume. Coen is intriguing, but he's probably the worst HC candidate hired so far this cycle. I'd take Joe Brady over him.

Will be interesting to see what the Saints and Cowboys do.

 

[Husky25]

Let's look at trends. Washington brought in an old school, get it done, fundamentals, defense coach. They are in the NFC championship. Patriots hired a similar guy. Raiders (with Brady input) hired Carroll. Jets went with the older, experienced DC Aaron Glen, not the flashy 30 year old offensive guy.

Bears went with Johnson, but he's been around longer than Coen and has a much better resume. Coen is intriguing, but he's probably the worst HC candidate hired so far this cycle. I'd take Joe Brady over him.

Will be interesting to see what the Saints and Cowboys do.

Saw the Cowboys going with...Brian Schottenheimer?

Is that right?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Saw the Cowboys going with...Brian Schottenheimer?

Is that right?

They interviewed him. But did they hire him? He’s already on staff.

 

[Husky25]

They interviewed him. But did they hire him? He’s already on staff.

The whole thing is really weird. Jones denied the Bears' request to interview McCarthy, then he fires him six days later.

 

[Waquoit]

Coen? Seriously? He's a huge gamble.

Exactly! Which means big potential upside instead of a steady 9-8 and 10-7.

 

[Waquoit]

Saw the Cowboys going with...Brian Schottenheimer?

Is that right?

Jerry needs a coach that will do his bidding.

 

[Husky25]

Jerry needs a coach that will do his bidding.

I thought he had one.

The Saints are now the only team without a coach. They have interviewed Mike Kafka, and Anthony Weaver and are interested to talk to Kellen Moore, Kliff Kingsbury, and Mike McCarthy.

I think the Saints job will be very difficult for a first time HC. They have a sub-par roster and negative cap space, which means the roster is about to get worse. They are also picking 9th, so they are not in line to get a QB either.

I can't imagine Kingsbury leaves Washington this round. Not for New Orleans.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I thought he had one.

The Saints are now the only team without a coach. They have interviewed Mike Kafka, and Anthony Weaver and are interested to talk to Kellen Moore, Kliff Kingsbury, and Mike McCarthy.

I think the Saints job will be very difficult for a first time HC. They have a sub-par roster and negative cap space, which means the roster is about to get worse. They are also picking 9th, so they are not in line to get a QB either.

I can't imagine Kingsbury leaves Washington this round. Not for New Orleans.

I agree. It's not a desirable job right now.

Best choice is probably Joe Brady or Flores. Brady has some connection back to the old Sean Payton days.