Discouraging, But you Never Can Tell...

[Fishy]

Notre Dame is playing at Temple in a few years so obviously, they're pushing the ACC to invite the Owls.

 

[CL82]

It so hard to dislike Edsall right after watching this video.

The win at ND was a reminder of what we were like when we were a program on the rise. It will good to get back to that under HCBD.

 

[btstimpy]

You guys are drinking the koolaid. That's for sure. ND played Pitt for ages. The ACC is irrelevant. ND has played Philly, they've played Washington. They go to Happy Valley. The ACC is totally irrelevant in all of this.

Yes. They have been playing all over the country as an independent for years. They want to continue to do that, but they also wanted a home in a conference for basketball, lacrosse, soccer, etc. Apparently they didn't want to keep doing what they were doing with all of those teams tucked away in the AAC. So to put the non-football programs in a P5 conference, they could choose Big XII, B1G, or ACC. The PAC12 and SEC aren't realistic. Which of the Big XII, B1G, or ACC gives them them most access to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Washington, Charlotte, Miami, Pittsburgh, Dallas, etc knowing they now had to give up at least some football independence? They were not given a Big East offer from any of the Big XII, B1G, or ACC. The Big XII and ACC offered partial. The B1G did not offer partial.

With partial on the table, the B1G is out. They have their hubris about standing firm, and they can now watch Notre Dame drop Michigan, Michigan State, and Purdue. They will all tell you that the B1G is so wonderful Notre Dame will be crawling back.

The Big XII offered them Dallas. The Big XII offered them recruiting access to Texas. The ACC gets them Boston, Pittsburgh, New York, Atlanta, Charlotte, Miami, and Washington, DC. The ACC also gets them recruiting access to Georgia and Florida. The choice was not hard. But they could have gone with Georgetown and Villanova sure to keep doing what they were doing. But they'd be trying to shop around for a bowl deal outside the BCS like BYU and Navy have. They didn't want to do that. Then they addressed the Texas situation by signing a 4 game series with Texas.

What does the ACC get out of this? The Gator Bowl, the Capital One Bowl, a home Notre Dame game for each team every 6 years, and about $2 million per year for each school. Plus Notre Dame doesn't have bad basketball, soccer, and lacrosse. The ACC gets another good team in each of those league schedules. Will it last forever? It will for 15 years or so.

 

[UPitt]

I don't think anyone blames ND for cutting and running and making selfish deals. What bugs people is the background stuff that ND shouldn't have been involved in, which is the 2003-2004 split, and then assuming the presidency while double dealing.

Do you despise Notre Dame?

I personally think Notre Dame did many positive things for the Big East. They helped secure better bowls, and only could be chosen to play in one bowl game a year. They brought a competetive mens and womens bbasketball program into the conference.

I think it is far fetched to blame Notre Dame for the Big East collapse. When the power conference model changed and the Big East model no longer aligned with it, the Big East was dead in the water. What the Big East lacked most of all was not having a "blue blood" or "cornerstone" football school or two. Miami and VT were competetive programs, but they are likely middle of pack ACC schools for carrying the weight of that conference. Pitt, SU, RU, BC, and WVU were required to shoulder much of the Big East load and most would agree that they are middle to lower of the pack in their respective P5 conferences. Asking though seven schools, along with Big East new comers Ville, UC, and UConn (football) to field a product as valuable as the other major conferences was an unreasonable expectation.

 

[btstimpy]

Notre Dame is playing at Temple in a few years so obviously, they're pushing the ACC to invite the Owls.

Notre Dame doesn't appear to be sponsoring anyone for the ACC to invite at the moment. But Philadelphia won the bid to host the ACC Men's lacrosse tournament this year and next year at PPL Park, wherever that is. So Notre Dame gets to show off its lacrosse in Philadelphia too.

 

[btstimpy]

Notre Dame can play in New York, Boston and and Pittsburgh without the ACC. They play in Texas and near as I can tell they didn't have to join the Big 12 to do it.

Notre Dame is simply not interested in joining a conference and the Big Ten was never going to offer them the 'have your cake and eat it, too' deal the ACC did.

Like I posted in another reply, Notre Dame could have stayed with the AAC for all sports except football and continued to play all those places as an independent. They chose to join a P5 conference instead, which required them to give up the independence of at least 5 football games. Now ask yourself which P5 conference lets them continue to play in those places along with Miami and Atlanta using the 5 games they gave up?

With the AAC they would not have been required to give up 5 games and continued to play those places sure. And they'd have the AAC bowl lineup too. Same as before.

 

[huskymedic]

... and only could be chosen to play in one bowl game a year.

 

[Fishy]

Are you drunk?

Why would they have stayed in the AAC? Do you think they're looking forward to sending their volleyball team to Tulsa next year?

Of course not - they packed their bags and went to the one P5 conference where they could dictate terms.

 

[btstimpy]

Are you drunk?

Why would they have stayed in the AAC? Do you think they're looking forward to sending their volleyball team to Tulsa next year?

Of course not - they packed their bags and went to the one P5 conference where they could dictate terms.

There were two P5 conferences that offered the partial football. And they went to the P5 conference where they could still play in those cities that I referenced. The ACC was not the only option.

 

[btstimpy]

View attachment 5077

With all of the bowl games locked into conferences, where do you think they will be able to play? If BYU makes a bowl and it is not BCS, it's the Poinsettia Bowl baby. That's it.

I should have said play in the same bowl game every year rather than saying one bowl game a year. That's what I meant.

 

[Fishy]

There were two P5 conferences that offered the partial football. And they went to the P5 conference where they could still play in those cities that I referenced. The ACC was not the only option.

The ACC was the only option.

Notre Dame can play anyone anywhere anytime. They're Notre Dame - they don't need the help of pissants like Syracuse, Boston College or Pittsburgh to arrange a local football game.

The fact that you think otherwise is one of your more delusional efforts.

 

[huskymedic]

... and only could be chosen to play in one bowl game a year.

I should have said play in the same bowl game every year rather than saying one bowl game a year. That's what I meant.

Except "YOU" didn't say it - UPitt did.

Hmmm...

 

[btstimpy]

The ACC was the only option.

Notre Dame can play anyone anywhere anytime. They're Notre Dame - they don't need the help of pissants like Syracuse, Boston College or Pittsburgh to arrange a local football game.

The fact that you think otherwise is one of your more delusional efforts.

According to many sources Notre Dame had the exact same offer of partial football from the Big XII.

And now Notre Dame doesn't have to arrange those local games. They will happen naturally because they are playing those teams with the ACC making the arrangements.

 

[specialisthusky]

According to many sources Notre Dame had the exact same offer of partial football from the Big XII.

And now Notre Dame doesn't have to arrange those local games. They will happen naturally because they are playing those teams with the ACC making the arrangements.

Do you have a link for that?

 

[Fishy]

This cat is bat s--- crazy.

 

[Pudge]

Do you despise Notre Dame?

I personally think Notre Dame did many positive things for the Big East. They helped secure better bowls, and only could be chosen to play in one bowl game a year. They brought a competetive mens and womens bbasketball program into the conference.

I think it is far fetched to blame Notre Dame for the Big East collapse. When the power conference model changed and the Big East model no longer aligned with it, the Big East was dead in the water. What the Big East lacked most of all was not having a "blue blood" or "cornerstone" football school or two. Miami and VT were competetive programs, but they are likely middle of pack ACC schools for carrying the weight of that conference. Pitt, SU, RU, BC, and WVU were required to shoulder much of the Big East load and most would agree that they are middle to lower of the pack in their respective P5 conferences. Asking though seven schools, along with Big East new comers Ville, UC, and UConn (football) to field a product as valuable as the other major conferences was an unreasonable expectation.

notice what is left out ...

Louisville, UC and UConn quickly were at the level of Pitt and RU and BC. It was a flash of light. Field a product? We were better than Syracuse from virtually day One to the time they slimed their way out.

I don't think Pitt or BC or Syracuse are what they say they are. Swofford and gang weren't nearly as market sensitive nor great speculators as to future turns of where CFB could go. Central NY, for instance, has declining demographics and that Brand really has a vague future. This will always irk me. The selection of the ones who left for the ACC (actually until it was Louisville) posed few of the longterm viability that UConn does as a Program.

 

[UConn990411]

The ACC was the only option.

Notre Dame can play anyone anywhere anytime. They're Notre Dame - they don't need the help of pissants like Syracuse, Boston College or Pittsburgh to arrange a local football game.

The fact that you think otherwise is one of your more delusional efforts.

He's the definition of delusional.

Or, as I like to call it, an ACC fan.

 

[buckaineer]

According to many sources Notre Dame had the exact same offer of partial football from the Big XII.

And now Notre Dame doesn't have to arrange those local games. They will happen naturally because they are playing those teams with the ACC making the arrangements.

The BIG 12 never made any offer to Notre Dame. This is completely untrue--another story created by ACC types to make themselves feel better about what they did.

 

[buckaineer]

Here is what the BIG 12 commissioner reported to ESPN on Notre Dame:

excerpt:

You've already acknowledged talks between the Big 12 and Notre Dame. How would you describe how close Notre Dame was to coming to your league, vs. the ACC?

We never got to the point of any negotiations at all. We talked conceptually about it, and agreed that it was going to be very difficult for us to do anything until after our television contract was put to bed....

What would you tell fans who believe the Big 12 missed out on adding Notre Dame or an ACC power to the league?

I think our strategy is sound. I think the thinking of our presidents and athletic directors is unified, and I'm convinced that larger is not better than status quo.

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/55478/part-2-big-12-commish-bob-bowlsby-qa

 

[TerryD]

Here is what the BIG 12 commissioner reported to ESPN on Notre Dame:

excerpt:

You've already acknowledged talks between the Big 12 and Notre Dame. How would you describe how close Notre Dame was to coming to your league, vs. the ACC?

We never got to the point of any negotiations at all. We talked conceptually about it, and agreed that it was going to be very difficult for us to do anything until after our television contract was put to bed....

What would you tell fans who believe the Big 12 missed out on adding Notre Dame or an ACC power to the league?

I think our strategy is sound. I think the thinking of our presidents and athletic directors is unified, and I'm convinced that larger is not better than status quo.

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/55478/part-2-big-12-commish-bob-bowlsby-qa

Buck:

It is not as clear cut as you try to make it. The Big 12 was in talks with ND about partial membership, including up to six football games per year.

Deloss Dodds, Bob Bowlsby and Chuck Neinas were all caught by surprise when ND and the ACC signed their deal.

There was no formal offer, but lots of talks and Dodds, for one, thought he had ND on the hook for a potential deal.

Texas and the Big 12 certainly very much wanted ND to join that conference as a partial member.



http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2012/09/13/Colleges/Big-12.aspx



News of Notre Dame's impending move to the ACC "came as a big surprise to many in the Big 12," according to Chip Brown of ORANGEBLOODS.com. Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby and former Big 12 interim Commissioner Chuck Neinas "both had conversations" with Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick about joining the conference, including keeping the school "in the loop about the Big 12's decision to partner with the SEC on the Champions Bowl, which will begin New Year's Night 2015." The conversations "had included Notre Dame playing up to six games against Big 12 schools." A source said, "No one is going to say it publicly, but this is a bit of a surprise and a big disappointment. We thought Notre Dame would be able to pursue its own network in the Big 12 and be a great fit here. I'm not sure what Notre Dame is going to be able to do in terms of its own network in the ACC" (ORANGEBLOODS.com, 9/12). Bowlsby said, "We never got to the point where we were talking about, ‘This is what it will cost,’ or ‘This is what our concerns are.'" He said that extended negotiations "on the Fox and ESPN TV deals also played a role" in Notre Dame not joining the Big 12. Bowlsby: "We had spent some time about how this might fit together. Everybody knew Notre Dame wanted football to stay independent. That creates rough spots, especially for us in the middle of a TV negotiation. Had the TV deal been completed months ago, it would have given us a known element" (DALLAS MORNING NEWS, 9/13). Meanwhile, Texas Men's AD DeLoss Dodds said of Notre Dame's move, "They had to do something. We wish they would have come this way, but they did what was right for them and we absolutely understand that" (WSJ.com, 9/12).

 

[whaler11]

The Big 12 would have been bat crazy to not offer the same deal the ACC did.

 

[btstimpy]

The BIG 12 never made any offer to Notre Dame. This is completely untrue--another story created by ACC types to make themselves feel better about what they did.

A story created by DeLoss Dodds of Univerity of Texas at Austin. I even had him tell the story to me. I don't know if it makes ACC types feel better, but Notre Dame chose the ACC over the Big XII when it had offers to basically have the same arrangement from both conferences. Did the Big XII formally take a vote to offer? No. The ACC closed the deal first. But if you know anything about the Big XII, if DeLoss Dodds wanted something, he was rarely told no.



Try minute 23, and he can tell this story to you too. Might even make you feel good. He also says FWIW that he wants to stay at 10 schools in the Big XII, but Louisville and BYU are who he would support for members 11 and 12.

 

[btstimpy]

Do you have a link for that?

Minute 23

 

[btstimpy]

Here is what the BIG 12 commissioner reported to ESPN on Notre Dame:

excerpt:

You've already acknowledged talks between the Big 12 and Notre Dame. How would you describe how close Notre Dame was to coming to your league, vs. the ACC?

We never got to the point of any negotiations at all. We talked conceptually about it, and agreed that it was going to be very difficult for us to do anything until after our television contract was put to bed....

What would you tell fans who believe the Big 12 missed out on adding Notre Dame or an ACC power to the league?

I think our strategy is sound. I think the thinking of our presidents and athletic directors is unified, and I'm convinced that larger is not better than status quo.

http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/55478/part-2-big-12-commish-bob-bowlsby-qa

What do you expect him to say? Yes we wanted Notre Dame and conceptually offered the same deal, but they chose someone else.

If he publicly admitted that, I think he'd be run out of town. He does admit the concept was discussed, and I linked for you the fact that DeLoss Dodds 'strongly' wanted it to happen. What Deloss actually got was a 4 game home and home with Notre Dame and Texas. The Big XII opportunity for Notre Dame is gone.

 

[buckaineer]

What do you expect him to say? Yes we wanted Notre Dame and conceptually offered the same deal, but they chose someone else.

If he publicly admitted that, I think he'd be run out of town. He does admit the concept was discussed, and I linked for you the fact that DeLoss Dodds 'strongly' wanted it to happen. What Deloss actually got was a 4 game home and home with Notre Dame and Texas. The Big XII opportunity for Notre Dame is gone.

Please. The BIG 12 is one of the the most successful power conferences. There has never been a need for Bowlsby to make up stories like Swofford does. The BIG 12 was never giving ND the deal the ACC did and wasn't considering it. They talked with Notre Dame and it is well documented in the news. They never made any offers. It is pretty amusing to continually see you ACC fans try and link ACC type issues of insecurity and instability to the BIG 12 though.

 

[buckaineer]

Buck:

It is not as clear cut as you try to make it. The Big 12 was in talks with ND about partial membership, including up to six football games per year.

Deloss Dodds, Bob Bowlsby and Chuck Neinas were all caught by surprise when ND and the ACC signed their deal.

There was no formal offer, but lots of talks and Dodds, for one, thought he had ND on the hook for a potential deal.

Texas and the Big 12 certainly very much wanted ND to join that conference as a partial member.



http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2012/09/13/Colleges/Big-12.aspx



News of Notre Dame's impending move to the ACC "came as a big surprise to many in the Big 12," according to Chip Brown of ORANGEBLOODS.com. Big 12 Commissioner Bob Bowlsby and former Big 12 interim Commissioner Chuck Neinas "both had conversations" with Notre Dame AD Jack Swarbrick about joining the conference, including keeping the school "in the loop about the Big 12's decision to partner with the SEC on the Champions Bowl, which will begin New Year's Night 2015." The conversations "had included Notre Dame playing up to six games against Big 12 schools." A source said, "No one is going to say it publicly, but this is a bit of a surprise and a big disappointment. We thought Notre Dame would be able to pursue its own network in the Big 12 and be a great fit here. I'm not sure what Notre Dame is going to be able to do in terms of its own network in the ACC" (ORANGEBLOODS.com, 9/12). Bowlsby said, "We never got to the point where we were talking about, ‘This is what it will cost,’ or ‘This is what our concerns are.'" He said that extended negotiations "on the Fox and ESPN TV deals also played a role" in Notre Dame not joining the Big 12. Bowlsby: "We had spent some time about how this might fit together. Everybody knew Notre Dame wanted football to stay independent. That creates rough spots, especially for us in the middle of a TV negotiation. Had the TV deal been completed months ago, it would have given us a known element" (DALLAS MORNING NEWS, 9/13). Meanwhile, Texas Men's AD DeLoss Dodds said of Notre Dame's move, "They had to do something. We wish they would have come this way, but they did what was right for them and we absolutely understand that" (WSJ.com, 9/12).

The BIG 12 never made any secret of the fact they pursued Notre Dame and I never said they didn't. They were never offering ND partial membership like the ACC did and they never offered ND such membership.
Texas is one school in the BIG 12--they don't own or control the conference. Notice UL, BYU and ND are not members or partial members. The only conference with partial members is the ACC.

Sorry it offends you ACC types to not be able to accept that only the ACC offered such a deal--but those are the facts.

 

[whaler11]

What I wrote about ND is pretty clear. Your post has nothing to do with it. They PREVENTED the split. You got it totally reversed.

They did... you know what other school fought like hell against a split right?

 

[btstimpy]

Please. The BIG 12 is one of the the most successful power conferences. There has never been a need for Bowlsby to make up stories like Swofford does. The BIG 12 was never giving ND the deal the ACC did and wasn't considering it. They talked with Notre Dame and it is well documented in the news. They never made any offers. It is pretty amusing to continually see you ACC fans try and link ACC type issues of insecurity and instability to the BIG 12 though.

LOL. The Bic XII is out in the Plains States plus Texas. The ACC had 11 bowl teams in 2013 and the National Champion. To keep talking trash about the Big XII making more money than the ACC is just that TRASH. Keep talking though. Good Luck!

 

[btstimpy]

The BIG 12 never made any secret of the fact they pursued Notre Dame and I never said they didn't. They were never offering ND partial membership like the ACC did and they never offered ND such membership.
Texas is one school in the BIG 12--they don't own or control the conference. Notice UL, BYU and ND are not members or partial members. The only conference with partial members is the ACC.

Sorry it offends you ACC types to not be able to accept that only the ACC offered such a deal--but those are the facts.

The Big XII offered partial membership. The Big XII got a big old Moon. And the Big XII opportunity for Notre Dame is gone. Thank you guys very much.

 

[buckaineer]

LOL. The Bic XII is out in the Plains States plus Texas. The ACC had 11 bowl teams in 2013 and the National Champion. To keep talking trash about the Big XII making more money than the ACC is just that TRASH. Keep talking though. Good Luck!

the BIG 12 is a national conference that spreads from. Texas through the northern midwest to the Ohio Valley/Western PA/Mid Atlantic region. its one of the most succesful conferences that have existed with more top four finishes than anyone other than the SEC by far. The BIG 12 had nine of ten in bowls the previous year for a historical record. the BIG 12 was the top revenue conference last year for all media rights and will continue to keep pace with the other leagues. Consistent success and continued success. Oklahoma didn't get the chance to play but clearly could have defeated FSU as they stomped everyone's season long Number one Alabama. The last two times OU and FSU played it wasnt close- just a couple of seasons back. OU won in a landslide.

The ACC had one good year in nearly twenty after being pumped up all season by their media partner. FSU despite being good for the ACC had the lowest sos of any team in a decade after playing in the fourth lowest rated conference last year-- which was a drastic move up for the ACC. The ACC is now a conference with BC on an island, SU on an island, Pitt on an island, soon UL on an island, Miami on an island, all separated by great distances from the rest of the conference mostly located in the southeast. The SEC and Big Ten dominate the television and fanbases in the majority of ACC " territory-by a wide margin. The ACC has the lowest payouts by far of all major conferences despite getting two increases in just a short period after turning over all media rights to their tv partner, who now has a year long "feel good" blitz going for that league. ACC is the only P5 league with a lawsuit attempting to keep other schools from leaving by punishing one that is leaving.

Talk about trash- no one from the ACC should be saying anything.