Discouraging, But you Never Can Tell...

[ConnHuskBask]

If UConn joins the Big 12 it has to be as a full member. We'll need the revenue to offset travel expenses.

Check the AAC conference map coming up next season. The big 12 is certainl further west but we're traveling everywhere making a few million in gv rights. At least in the Big 12 we'd be able to ( guessing) off set those extra travel dollars with a partial tv share, our own tier 3 rights and added revenue by playing legitimate opponents who sell tickets.

 

[btstimpy]

This has always been true. But what if ND is invited to the B1G along with UConn? Then placed in a Pod with UConn, Maryland & Rutgers. With regular games against old rivals in Michigan, MSU & Purdue. Or even just this 8 team division: Notre Dame, Maryland, UConn, Rutgers, Penn State, Purdue, Michigan, MSU (Every school would get a rivalry game, so Michigan would play OSU). The travel would be insanely good, with Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern and Illinois all a bus ride away. However strong ND is in New York, they are even stronger in Chicago. Notre Dame and UConn to the B1G gives them both. Exile to the ACC will decrease their relevance in their largest market. That 2015 schedule, with no B1G schools, is suicide for Notre Dame over time.

From a pure football standpoint, Notre Dame has moved toward the hotbed of college fooball demographically joining the ACC. It has not moved away from it. The midwest is going to be increasingly challenged to keep up in football due to the demographic shift in football talent nationally. The Big Ten knows it. Notre Dame knows it too. The key football areas are Atlantic South, Texas, and California, and the separation of these areas against the rest of the US for talent is increasing. The ACC gives Notre Dame immediate access to the Atlantic South. They play games in California, so they are covered there. They could have joined the Big XII to get access to Texas, but the ACC also gives Notre Dame access to the East, which is their history. So the ACC trumped the Big XII. Notre Dame will remain just fine in Chicago. I'm not sure they're concerned about the rest of the midwest. They don't seem to be.

The demographic trend is translating into championships too. The SEC is and has been dominant because of talent access. The ACC has access to many of the same areas and FSU just won. Before that we had Southern California and Texas. It's not a mistake. It's the trend. A Notre Dame person could comment further, but Notre Dame isn't looking at the Big Ten, and Notre Dame won't be looking at them in the future either unless the Big Ten all of a sudden becomes southern.

 

[Irishfan]

No ND fan I know wants to join the Big Ten, even though it would probably result in the largest payout. Some would like to join the ACC or possibly the Big 12 (in a deal with Texas), but the vast majority want to stay independent. We have had several opportunities to join the Big Ten, but the feeling is that it is a move that would define us as simply a Midwestern school. I don't think too many are concerned about our fan base in Chicago, or even New York for that matter. It's the fan base in the southeast that seems to be up for grabs. The ACC may offer the best avenue to capitalize on those opportunities.

 

[TerryD]

This has always been true. But what if ND is invited to the B1G along with UConn? Then placed in a Pod with UConn, Maryland & Rutgers. With regular games against old rivals in Michigan, MSU & Purdue. Or even just this 8 team division: Notre Dame, Maryland, UConn, Rutgers, Penn State, Purdue, Michigan, MSU (Every school would get a rivalry game, so Michigan would play OSU). The travel would be insanely good, with Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern and Illinois all a bus ride away. However strong ND is in New York, they are even stronger in Chicago. Notre Dame and UConn to the B1G gives them both. Exile to the ACC will decrease their relevance in their largest market. That 2015 schedule, with no B1G schools, is suicide for Notre Dame over time.

ND has demonstrated that they have no desire to be a member of the Big Ten under just about any probable scenario.

 

[AZHuskiePop]

Pursuing a dance with the Big 12 certainly isn't a bad strategy.
Demand can and has been created in many areas simply by the perception of demand. It works so well the SEC(securities and exchange commission) made it illegal.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

ND has demonstrated that they have no desire to be a member of the Big Ten under just about any probable scenario.

Only scenario I can see ND going to the B1G is if the ACC is the conference to explode and is primarily eaten by the B1G. The PAC is too far away for ND's non-football sports. The XII, which I assume under this scenario has stayed as it, only offers 1 attractive market to ND - Texas. The B1G on the other hand could offer NYC (Rutgers and hopefully UConn), DC (Maryland & Virginia), the Carolinas (NC), Atlanta (G Tech) and access to FL via Florida State plus its frenemies in the Midwest. Hard to beat.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I love baseball as much as anyone, but we are at least a month away from playing baseball outside of a gym around here. Only 50 miles outside the city, we received 30 to 40 inches of snow this past weekend in the mountains, so its still ski/snowboard/snowmobile season around here. Even saw a group using dog sleds this past weekend, something I never expected to see in PA.

I think the timing of the college baseball season really hurts northern universities. The Pitt baseball schedule starts Feb 14 and ends May 17. We play the first 17 games on the road and then 12 of the next 15 at home to try and get even. The prime time to play baseball in northern cities is from May through Sept, which is the time during which recreational and youth ball is played. Also, attendance at pro baseball thrives during these months, when compared to chilly April games. I understand why the college baseball season is from mid Feb to mid May (coincide with spring semester and allow for college tournys), but participation/competition from northern colleges would increase greatly if the season was from mid March or April through June.

It was last year or the year before when MN has such a bad winter in spring, high school baseball teams around Minneapolis were booking 2 AM slots in the Metrodome (may she rest in peace) just to get a game in. This winter in Jersey, HS and rec baseball is scheduled to start in 3 weeks. Right now, the main rec field is under 4 feet of snow and some of the snow piles in the parking lot may live to see the 4th of July fireworks show at this rate.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I moved to Baton Rouge from the Pittsburgh area in 1983. I live about 75 miles from New Orleans.

I can attest that baseball is the second most important sport after men's basketball at Tulane. Their baseball program has been pretty good the past 15 or so years.

Football? Dismal. I went to a Tulane/Syracuse game a couple of years ago. There were about 6,000 fans in the 65,0000 seat Superdome. About half were traveling Syracuse fans. It was kind of sad to see.

There is no enthusiasm for football. Tulane has lost most of its football fan base. Hurricane Katrina sure didn't help things.

It was a bit different in the Eighties when Tulane beat LSU a few times. The Green Wave went 12-0 in 1998. Maybe the new on campus stadium they are building will help. I don't know.

Good football or bad, the new stadium at Tulane looks nice and with UConn travelling there this fall, I am trying to talk a buddy into using at as an excuse for a weekend road trip to New Orleans. With the wife's permission of course

 

[Yawkey Way]

The ACC is where ND wants to be.

ND hockey moved to the Hockey East Conference.


.

Agreed. ND will try to remain as independent in football for as long as possible ( but with half its schedule made up each year of ACC football teams). ND's decision to accept the invite of the Hockey East league over that of the new BIG 10 Hockey League pretty much shows where they will put their football program fully some day, and it most certainly won't be the Big 10. If and when ND comes in to the ACC, my guess then the ACC will then vote immediately on bringing in Uconn or Cincy ( or the football winner of the AAC most years ) to make it 16.

 

[upstater]

Agreed. ND will try to remain as independent in football for as long as possible ( but with half its schedule made up each year of ACC football teams). ND's decision to accept the invite of the Hockey East league over that of the new BIG 10 Hockey League pretty much shows where they will put their football program fully some day, and it most certainly won't be the Big 10. If and when ND comes in to the ACC, my guess then the ACC will then vote immediately on bringing in Uconn or Cincy ( or the football winner of the AAC most years ) to make it 16.

ND had an invite to B1G10 hockey? Never heard that before.

ND went with the ACC because it allowed them to remain independent. Nothing more than that. You can't trust ND.

 

[NickyNewark]

ND had an invite to B1G10 hockey? Never heard that before.

ND went with the ACC because it allowed them to remain independent. Nothing more than that. You can't trust ND.

Their pretty boldly arrogant already in the ACC trying to get out of playing certain teams in neutral venues rather than give some of the lesser lights(SU/BC) a real homegame and playing in front of their fan's in places like Metlife 250 miles away from CNY and Cuses core fans are pizzed they won't bless their Dome w/a visit.

 

[TerryD]

Their pretty boldly arrogant already in the ACC trying to get out of playing certain teams in neutral venues rather than give some of the lesser lights(SU/BC) a real homegame and playing in front of their fan's in places like Metlife 250 miles away from CNY and Cuses core fans are pizzed they won't bless their Dome w/a visit.

Nicky:

The Met Life games were scheduled before ND and Syracuse joined the ACC.

Syracuse had the option of changing the venue but wants to be "New York's team" and wanted the games to be held at Met Life. Similarly, Syracuse has played Southern Cal at Met Life.

ND and BC collaborated with the Fenway Park game. ND did not put a shotgun at the BC AD's head.

Syracuse fans don't like the Met Life games, period. But, this has nothing to do with ND joining the ACC. They are mad at their AD for playing several Syracuse home games (not just with ND) at Met Life.

ND wants the East Coast exposure that the ACC provides, Upstater, a ND was in talks to join the Big 12 as a partial member, but preferred the ACC.

There are quotes from Deloss Dodds and Bob Bowlsby about how surprised they were that ND chose the ACC instead of the Big 12 for partial membership.

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky:

The Met Life games were scheduled before ND and Syracuse joined the ACC.

Syracuse had the option of changing the venue but wants to be "New York's team" and wanted the games to be held at Met Life. Similarly, Syracuse has played Southern Cal at Met Life.

ND and BC collaborated with the Fenway Park game. ND did not put a shotgun at the BC AD's head.

Syracuse fans don't like the Met Life games, period. But, this has nothing to do with ND joining the ACC. They are mad at their AD for playing several Syracuse home games (not just with ND) at Met Life.

ND wants the East Coast exposure that the ACC provides, Upstater, a ND was in talks to join the Big 12 as a partial member, but preferred the ACC.

There are quotes from Deloss Dodds and Bob Bowlsby about how surprised they were that ND chose the ACC instead of the Big 12 for partial membership.

Nunes had a whole story on that issue firing up their "base"!! SU FB fans are the funniest out there? They ARE in NY yet to become NY's team they have to play in NJ? What a quagmire their in ! Lately there fans are concerned with UB because they don't like UB wants to become NY's team.....how dare they?

 

[NickyNewark]

Nicky:

The Met Life games were scheduled before ND and Syracuse joined the ACC.

Syracuse had the option of changing the venue but wants to be "New York's team" and wanted the games to be held at Met Life. Similarly, Syracuse has played Southern Cal at Met Life.

ND and BC collaborated with the Fenway Park game. ND did not put a shotgun at the BC AD's head.

Syracuse fans don't like the Met Life games, period. But, this has nothing to do with ND joining the ACC. They are mad at their AD for playing several Syracuse home games (not just with ND) at Met Life.

ND wants the East Coast exposure that the ACC provides, Upstater, a ND was in talks to join the Big 12 as a partial member, but preferred the ACC.

There are quotes from Deloss Dodds and Bob Bowlsby about how surprised they were that ND chose the ACC instead of the Big 12 for partial membership.

Terry will ND play WF at Wakes HF or VA at home or in DC??

 

[billybud]

Yep...Independence is #1 for the Domers.

Independence has been part of the Notre Dame DNA for my lifetime.

It is their identity...a national program playing a national schedule.

Why change? Unless you absolutely have to.

 

[billybud]

I'm cool with that.

Hardly any FSU fans are really ACC guys....it is just a place to play.

 

[UPitt]

It was last year or the year before when MN has such a bad winter in spring, high school baseball teams around Minneapolis were booking 2 AM slots in the Metrodome (may she rest in peace) just to get a game in. This winter in Jersey, HS and rec baseball is scheduled to start in 3 weeks. Right now, the main rec field is under 4 feet of snow and some of the snow piles in the parking lot may live to see the 4th of July fireworks show at this rate.

I do not recall that exact situation, but I have heard of similar situations. For HS season around here, we have had to rescheduled early season baseball games to be played on turf football fields or schools that have crushed brick infileds (if not familiar, they drain very well) have allowed nieghboring schools to use their field for games. Like you said, HS baseball games start in just a couple weeks and we still have fields covered in a foot of snow. Weather is warming up this weekend (high in the 40's), but is dropping back to highs below freezing for all of next week. Similar to the problem with College baseball up north, the HS season is a spring sport and much of the season is played in poor conditions. Although the weather puts a damper on College and HS early spring baseball seasons, we (unlike Billy) will be able to enjoy baseball all summer long without the unbearable heat.

 

[TerryD]

Terry will ND play WF at Wakes HF or VA at home or in DC??

ND played Wake Forest at Wake Forest in 2011. My best guess is that ND's away games with Wake Forest and Virginia will be at their home stadiums.

 

[buckaineer]

The only reason Notre Dame put their other sports in the ACC is because the Big East broke up. Otherwise, they would still be in the Big East.

They didn't join the ACC so that they could move their football there, they just wanted to have the chance of bowl games for their football program and a place to take revenues for their olympic sports and no other conference was going to allow Notre Dame to take their bowls and football revenues without being a full member.

As long as ND thinks it has access to decent bowl games and a chance to play in the playoffs, they aren't going to join a conference at all. Ever.

 

[upstater]

The only reason Notre Dame put their other sports in the ACC is because the Big East broke up. Otherwise, they would still be in the Big East.

They didn't join the ACC so that they could move their football there, they just wanted to have the chance of bowl games for their football program and a place to take revenues for their olympic sports and no other conference was going to allow Notre Dame to take their bowls and football revenues without being a full member.

As long as ND thinks it has access to decent bowl games and a chance to play in the playoffs, they aren't going to join a conference at all. Ever.

Swofford may be the only person who doesn't realize this.

 

[06029]

Nicky:
ND and BC collaborated with the Fenway Park game. ND did not put a shotgun at the BC AD's head.

BC is the visiting team for the Fenway game. It is not replacing any home game on BC's schedule.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...lege_will_take_on_notre_dame_in_the_firs.html

BC has not given up a home game for this. There was a rumor that this game was going to be played in Ireland originally before ND chose to move it to Fenway. BC will play ND at home and against ND at whatever home venue ND chooses as part of the rotation in the ACC.

While I think the ACC did bend over to take ND, one of the keys to ND and the ACC for FB is that while ND does have access to some of the bowls, they do not have access to the Orange Bowl as the ACC representative. They have a separate relationship with the Orange that could result in a match up against an ACC opponent. The big difference for the ACC is they 5 FB games they extracted from ND every year versus some very fuzzy bowl alliances the BE was able to get from ND. Every one of those 5 games will be on a primary broadcast be it NBC or the Mickey Mouse channel. The BE got none of that from ND.

And for Nicky, ND will play as the visiting team wherever the home team decides in this relationship. They have no leverage as the visiting team with this agreement. They may want to suggest alternate venues but the home team decides. And I believe the home team will look at it from a purely economic view as to whether the venue makes sense or not. Cuse played USC at Met Life too. That was Cuse's choice. USC is playing BC at BC this season. That is BC's choice. BC will play ND at BC, Wake wil play at Wake, UNC at Chapel Hill, etc. Mark it down.

 

[06029]

Swofford may be the only person who doesn't realize this.

I think he does. But he may also realize that if ND finds itself shut out of the FB playoff system with 1 or 2 losses versus SEC/B1G/Pac/ACC teams with 1 or 2 losses over 13 games versus their 12 games (the championship games will be big in the new format), they will need to make a change. And they will move to whatever conference is best for them (I think that is the B1G). Worst case for ACC, expansion within 5 years of the playoff to 8 teams. Cements ND as an independent for a long time.

 

[HuskyHawk]

And when they have to, there will be absolutely no allegiances.

Bingo. And so my scenario of ND to the B1G with UConn isn't out of the question, if they have no choice. I don't buy the recruiting access argument. You don't need to play in the south to recruit in the south. ND can recruit anywhere. They are in the ACC because they cherish independence, nothing more.

P.S. B1G has new media contract coming up. It's already the best, imagine what it would be with Notre Dame? I don't think the ACC can compete, if ND has to go all in. The good news in either case, is that UConn is their ideal partner either way.

 

[buckaineer]

Notre Dame will have difficulty in the playoffs getting in over an undefeated or 1 loss team from the BIG 12, SEC, Big Ten, Pac 12 and even ACC. They can't win a conference championship and the committee has reported that will be part of the criteria considered.

Really at some point you have to wonder why the SEC, Big Ten, BIG 12 and Pac 12 would consider ND for inclusion in the playoffs. Obviously the ACC has no choice if they want ND's other sports and some games in football to improve their SOS. Why the four conferences would take the chance of ND getting one of their spots is unkown. Guessing the playoff tv partner desired that be the case--will be interesting to see if that holds up after the first contract is up.

 

[BCINGYA]

BC is the visiting team for the Fenway game. It is not replacing any home game on BC's schedule.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...lege_will_take_on_notre_dame_in_the_firs.html

BC has not given up a home game for this. There was a rumor that this game was going to be played in Ireland originally before ND chose to move it to Fenway. BC will play ND at home and against ND at whatever home venue ND chooses as part of the rotation in the ACC.

While I think the ACC did bend over to take ND, one of the keys to ND and the ACC for FB is that while ND does have access to some of the bowls, they do not have access to the Orange Bowl as the ACC representative. They have a separate relationship with the Orange that could result in a match up against an ACC opponent. The big difference for the ACC is they 5 FB games they extracted from ND every year versus some very fuzzy bowl alliances the BE was able to get from ND. Every one of those 5 games will be on a primary broadcast be it NBC or the Mickey Mouse channel. The BE got none of that from ND.

And for Nicky, ND will play as the visiting team wherever the home team decides in this relationship. They have no leverage as the visiting team with this agreement. They may want to suggest alternate venues but the home team decides. And I believe the home team will look at it from a purely economic view as to whether the venue makes sense or not. Cuse played USC at Met Life too. That was Cuse's choice. USC is playing BC at BC this season. That is BC's choice. BC will play ND at BC, Wake wil play at Wake, UNC at Chapel Hill, etc. Mark it down.

2015- Notre Dame collaborated to move it's home game from South Bend to Fenway Park as the home team as we all know.
2017- As announced by the B.C. Athletic Director B.B. on Dec 20th, 2013 B.C. will host N.D. at Chestnut Hill.
No need to mark it down as it is already INKED.