Did Morgan Help UConn By Leaving?

[Waquoit]

That's your argument??? Really?? Wow. I mean I have no words. Holy Jeebus.

And that's your reply? I'm not swayed.

 

[BroadwayVa]

An imponderable. These thoughts have occurred to me too. Would UConn be a slower team this year with Morgan on the floor? These are imponderables, yet we shall ponder.

Only on blogs and the barber shop do men ponder the imponderables. Question is Morgans knees/legs working well again?? I'm assuming they aren't . That alone would impact whether she played---if she didn't --the team you see would be the team with Morgan. If she stay and was healthy for the year--the bench numbers would increase and the subbing would increase and those games that were close would not have been.
Actually for Morgan--she did what was the right thing for her--take any opportunity you are handed--they may never come again.

 

[BroadwayVa]

That's your argument??? Really?? Wow. I mean I have no words. Holy Jeebus.

What time and on which street does that Jeebus come by?? Must be in front of St Francis--if it's HOLY..

 

[BroadwayVa]

My case is simple. IMO, you need two guards in your starting line-up. And I think right now KLS, Gabby and Collier are all better players than Tuck. And together their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Morgan is a great player and the more good players you have the better, but she would hold back this starting unit. Her role would be coming off the bench.

KLS, Napheesa , Gabby are different types --the closest is Gabby--a healthy Tuck is more beneficial player for this team--and Gabby would sub for 3 players--Kia, Napeesa, Tuck, maybe even Saniya. With big strong players no one on this team can compare to tuck (healthy)

 

[Carnac]

What is very sad is her seeing her playing career cut short, and with little remuneration. She was such a wonderful talent, yet she will likely never make the good money that she could have.

Washington Post has a very revealing article on the top 100 high school football players of the class of 2008. Most of those top-rated players never got near the NFL. They saw injuries, often horrific, cut short their careers, or transferred and never realized their initial promise. Few are living well, and many are either dead, in prison, or selling cars.

Women's basketball is far different. But the fact that physical promise can be snuffed out as fast as a twisted knee is a common link.

I do hope that all of the young women who played for Connecticut are doing well. I wish the best for Morgan Tuck, and for Breanna Stewart, who sustained a bad knee sprain recently.

Geno Auriemma on a radio program recently mentioned that were women's basketball to operate along the lines of men's basketball, Stewart would have left after her freshman season, presumably to make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year when she would have been at UConn. He said that KML would have left after her sophomore season.

We enjoy their exploits, but we should be more interested in seeing them thrive economically.

The playing field would remain level if female players could also jump ship after their freshmen year, and go to the WNBA. Most of the best female players would no doubt leave to seek their fortunes at the next level. There are several reasons why I don't follow men's college basketball. The one-and-done provision that is part of their operation is but one. I think that 90% of the top level talent in WCBB would leave if they were assured employment at the next level. I'm so happy that 1 and done is not part of the fabric of WCBB. I like the game just the way it is.

As to whether Morgan's leaving UConn helped them or not, I think depends on the color of the lenses you're looking through.
IMHO, I think this team would be more competitive (if that's possible), certainly deeper, and a little more mature. Morgan would still be the floor general had she stayed. She became the floor/team leader after Dolson left.

I remember viewing an episode of "The Geno Auriemma Show", in which Geno stated that he called Morgan into his office, to tell her he was looking for a new team leader, and inquired if she would like to step up and accept the challenge. He said she accepted. Every once and awhile the wheels on the old Husky schooner will begin to wobble just a bit, like they did against Houston Saturday.

Morgan had a calming influence on the rest of the players on the floor. Had she stayed, minutes that she would have played would have obviously dumb the development of one of this season's starters. If Morgan had stayed, UConn (Geno) would be a lot more confident going into the South Carolina game (and the post season) than they will be without her.

Mississippi State played the Gamecocks close last week. If not for the disparity of fouls called, the Bulldogs win that game by double digits. Since UConn for the most part plays without fouling, the Gamecocks may find that road to victory against UConn, a lot steeper than it was against Miss St. If UConn can dispatch the Gamecocks convincingly, they will continue to be to elephant in the room, and will be the top seed in the bracket that no other team will want to be in, as UConn ALWAYS comes out of their bracket.

 

[msf22b]

Sorry to somewhat disagree with the Oz

But the miracle that happened with this team occurred precisely because none of the big three were around to babysit the leftovers

And the biggest revelation is Saniya...We all knew (and Geno told told us) that KL would be a star
and I saw it in Pheesa in the Texas game after Geno yelled at her to do something during a frustration timeout. Gabby was on the way and Kia was Kia

But Sonia was all but a forgotten has-been end of the bench, mediocrity plus injury = nada

The team as a whole sure didn't look like much...and a true five-some was required...not just the three superstars and any two zombies that you pick up off the street (I know....very unkind and exaggerated).

But what the group was able to internalize...that maximizing their individual talents and most importantly, grasping the full range of opportunities available in team BB (as taught by the true Wizard) = virtually unbeatable success.

And look what this five-some has turned into: Some of the most interesting and cohesive BB in the history of the program.

I'm not saying it wouldn't have happened if Morgan would have returned...or a just as splendid variant.

But she didn't and they did.

 

[Frenchy]

No slight against Morgan, because she is a great player and a fine young lady. However, if she stayed the core players that we have now would most likely differed to Morgan to bailed them out in though situations. Without her, instead they all chip in the best they can and voila! you have a team instead of unsecured mix of young players. Morgan did Uconn team a big favor. She sure gave Uconn a heck of a run while here. Thanks Morgan

 

[hoophuskee]

IMO the team would have been stronger.

IMO the core players would have grown. Remember early in pre-season Geno speaking of how they were going to have to rely on Lou doing many things. Instead to start the year they could have relied to just be what she is best-- and that's a wing. The games in which Gabby and Collier got into foul trouble wouldn't have been as bad. As a 5th year senior, Morgan Tuck would have been better imo. Kia Nurse wouldn't have had the added pressure etc. Instead of Nat coming in to hold down the fort and keep things even-instead we'd look to continually expand leads- a lineup of Tuck, Collier, Gabby, Lou and Nurse -- would have been interchangeable especially up front and especially on offense. Collier wouldn't be primarily working in the paint. All year even before the season they would have practiced differently to fit their strengths of playing with Morgan Tuck- whom I'll mention again- as a 5h year senior with the talent UCONN has - she would have only been better imo.

We hear when Nat is in - we can't switch as much. hat wouldn't be a problem with Tuck. Our defense would be better and thus be able to get out more on the break. All these players would improve.

 

[meyers7]

And that's your reply? I'm not swayed.

When you are that far gone, there's no bringing you back. Any kind of logical argument would be completely lost on you.

It would be like trying to convince you water is wet when you have already established you think it's purple. We don't even have the same sphere of reference.

 

[CocoHusky]

My case is simple. IMO, you need two guards in your starting line-up. And I think right now KLS, Gabby and Collier are all better players than Tuck. And together their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Morgan is a great player and the more good players you have the better, but she would hold back this starting unit. Her role would be coming off the bench.

Morgan Tuck holding back any starting unit is among the most ludicrous concepts I have ever heard.

 

[bizarro aj]

I know im in the minority here but i for one didn't want tuck to return. She was never fast on the court and i would take collier or gabby over tuck any day of the week. Lets face it uconn wins the nc last year without tuck just like they did the previous year when she was hurt.

 

[CocoHusky]

I know im in the minority here but i for one didn't want tuck to return. She was never fast on the court and i would take collier or gabby over tuck any day of the week. Lets face it uconn wins the nc last year without tuck just like they did the previous year when she was hurt.

You are definitely in the minority. Of course Collier & Gabby are faster than Morgan but this is not a track meet. In basketball your ability to run is dependent on getting stops instead of taking the ball out of the basket. Morgan is a superior post defender to Gabby or Napheesa and she is a better perimeter defender than Napheesa. Morgan ability to shoot the three was also critical to spreading the floor for UCONN's offense. I cannot believe we are defending Morgan's contributions to UCONN championships but since you went there. It was Freshmen Morgan Tuck who filled in for and backed up a hobbled Dolson in the 2013 FF. It was Sophomore Tuck who was the regional MVP in 2015. It was Morgan tuck that beasted ND at ND. It was Junior Tuck who drew Ruth Hamblin away from the basket in the 2016 FF. Morgan Tuck graduated from UCONN undefeated as a starter!

 

[bizarro aj]

Durability is what makes a great player! How many games did DT or maya miss do to injury? As geno says great players don't get tired and they stay healthy. If tuck did come back look where she would be, redshirted again for a injury and thus would be no help to uconn. So you think that uconn wouldn't have won 4 nc's without tuck?

 

[CocoHusky]

Durability is what makes a great player! How many games did DT or maya miss do to injury? As geno says great players don't get tired and they stay healthy. If tuck did come back look where she would be, redshirted again for a injury and thus would be no help to uconn. So you think that uconn wouldn't have won 4 nc's without tuck?

That's not what Geno said or meant, but nice try!
DT was not injured but Sue Bird was and still managed to set UCONN records and win a Championship.
Remarkable that Morgan although injured for most of one season was still a major contributor to 3 UCONN championship=same amount as DT-How about them apples.

Did someone pee in a bunch of cereal bowls this morning or burn dinner last night?

Why are people draggin Morgan (of all people) today?

 

[Los24]

I've been re-watching games of the last few years
and in many ways find this year's games more satisfying.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that although the basic talent is somewhat less obvious;
this year's group have mastered the team-ball concept to an even greater degree than in previous season, as required by the absence of superstars.

And of course Geno and friends have reorganized their coaching dogma to accommodate the roles of such unusual particulars...for example; an undersized combo-point-forward who leads in rebounds and assists.

At its best, this season's teams plays pure, all-in, UConn BB at its finest and most elegant.

I think (win or lose),we will look back on this team with affection, even awe.

While I appreciate your sentiments, I do not agree with some of what you say although many of us feel this year to be a bit more satisfying. I believe this is the case because of expectations going into this year versus last year and the unknown.

However, last year had tremendous team ball, movement\fluidity and excusion. If it didn't, we would have seen Stewie average 30pts a game and lack of assists (UConn was at the top.) Last year taught this year's team much of that. Also everyone including Geno early in the year, need to stop saying we don't have stars or AA. People on this same board are arguing for 4 all-americans from UConn. Geno has said at different times that no one is doing "fill in blank" as Gabby, Lou or Pheese. Just because they were not as solidified coming in, it doesn't mean the talent and skillset is far off from previous UConn teams. It is just different type of talent.

I think the biggest differences are experience, having a true big who is a star and bench depth. We can appreciate last year's bench more now that we can see them play more (again AA type talent.). This year's bench may have one (Crystal Dangerfield) of those instead of 3. The bench is the biggest factor that makes this year more exciting because it's what makes us vunerable (including if foul trouble occurs against a top team.)

 

[msf22b]

While I appreciate your sentiments, I do not agree with some of what you say although many of us feel this year to be a bit more satisfying. I believe this is the case because of expectations going into this year versus last year and the unknown.

However, last year had tremendous team ball, movement\fluidity and excusion. If it didn't, we would have seen Stewie average 30pts a game and lack of assists (UConn was at the top.) Last year taught this year's team much of that. Also everyone including Geno early in the year, need to stop saying we don't have stars or AA. People on this same board are arguing for 4 all-americans from UConn. Geno has said at different times that no one is doing "fill in blank" as Gabby, Lou or Pheese. Just because they were not as solidified coming in, it doesn't mean the talent and skillset is far off from previous UConn teams. It is just different type of talent.

I think the biggest differences are experience, having a true big who is a star and bench depth. We can appreciate last year's bench more now that we can see them play more (again AA type talent.). This year's bench may have one (Crystal Dangerfield) of those instead of 3. The bench is the biggest factor that makes this year more exciting because it's what makes us vunerable (including if foul trouble occurs against a top team.)

It is obviously very difficult to quantify any position that attributes the success of the team to their
being "on their own." and the unknowns associated with Morgan's decision if it would have been to stay.

So, I stayed away from that aspect of the argument and noted a sense (at this point only a sense) that
the success of the last few seasons was based on a 3 (and a half?) system in which the lion's share of the scoring and defensive stops were made by the big 3....Geno said as much on more than one occasion.

And that the difference this season was a greater sharing of the ball on O, evenly among all 5; even if the greatest number of points is scored by the 3 best scorers, the other two on any given day could be among or even the leading scorer. Even more so, the D relies on all-5 to switch perfectly from man-to-man to what ever variation Geno calls. And that w/o perfect execution, height disadvantages are exposed. The most recent addition to that evolution has been alerting and interesting KLS to her potential in the area of shot-blocking... so that with Gabby and Pheesa's undersized proclivity in that area, we are not too far removed from the Stewie (who also had to be initiated into this trait)/Kiah tradition. To my eyes (at its best), the man switching is the smoothest I can remember in the last decade.

It's just a sense I have that our current five-some have mutually evolved into a very, very smooth team...very much like the '73 Knicks in their approach...all 5 required to participate fully; Clyde and Barnett at the guards, Dave and Bradley in the forecourt, Willis at center, Earl the Pearl, first off the bench...the difference being that that was a much more star-struck group than our kids.

That's the real point...sure, they may turn out to be stars, even all-stars; but what Geno has proven this season is a BB version of the alchemist's dream.

 

[CocoHusky]

The most recent addition to that evolution has been alerting and interesting KLS to her potential in the area of shot-blocking... so that with Gabby and Pheesa's undersized proclivity in that area, we are not too far removed from the Stewie (who also had to be initiated into this trait)/Kiah tradition. To my eyes (at its best), the man switching is the smoothest I can remember in the last decade.

Can't stop laughing after reading this! Here are the real number:
KLS Block shots last year =6: Moriah Jefferson last year 8 blocks
KLS Blocks this year =7 Saniya Chong this year =4 blocks
Stewie last year =126 blocks. The entire UCONN team this year (20) games=90 blocks
The reality is that we couldn't be further removed from Stewie's shot blocking and KLS is not going to be the one to help close the gap.

 

[meyers7]

Can't stop laughing after reading this! Here are the real number:
KLS Block shots last year =6: Moriah Jefferson last year 8 blocks
KLS Blocks this year =7 Saniya Chong this year =4 blocks
Stewie last year =126 blocks. The entire UCONN team this year (20) games=90 blocks
The reality is that we couldn't be further removed from Stewie's shot blocking and KLS is not going to be the one to help close the gap.

Don't forget this part

we are not too far removed from the Stewie (who also had to be initiated into this trait)

Stewart had 74 her Freshman year/110 her Soph year. 3rd most by any FR at UCONN, and 1st among any Sophs. I think she was pretty initiated when she arrived.

 

[Waquoit]

When you are that far gone, there's no bringing you back. Any kind of logical argument would be completely lost on you.
It would be like trying to convince you water is wet when you have already established you think it's purple. We don't even have the same sphere of reference.

What a cop-out. I think Gabby and Collier are better players than Tuck. I'm not sure that makes me "far gone".

 

[BigBird]

Don't forget this part...Stewart had 74 her Freshman year/110 her Soph year. 3rd most by any FR at UCONN, and 1st among any Sophs. I think she was pretty initiated when she arrived.

So, let me get this straight. Are you saying that stuff gets posted on the BY that has no basis in any reality?

 

[Goodgood]

Of course Morgan's presence is needed. But at this point, with the short bench, ANY Big is welcome. Boykin would have been great help here as well. But the team would not have developed the same way as it is now. Everyone is taking ownership and contributing selflessly to the team and it is beautiful to watch. The starting five is possibly the most cohesive group of players ever at UConn and this is no knock on last year's team or any previous team.

If this team does not win the NC this year, it is only because of the short bench. It does not need more leaders. Morgan, Boykin and Courtney Edmark would have made the NC a cinch.

 

[meyers7]

What a cop-out. I think Gabby and Collier are better players than Tuck. I'm not sure that makes me "far gone".

You'd have a very, very hard time convincing me having a 5th year Sr, Captain, returning AA who has played mostly the post (which is probably where we are weakest), in the starting lineup would not be better.

You not only didn't agree with this, you went on to say

My case is simple. IMO, you need two guards in your starting line-up. And I think right now KLS, Gabby and Collier are all better players than Tuck. And together their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Morgan is a great player and the more good players you have the better, but she would hold back this starting unit. Her role would be coming off the bench.

Yea, you're way far gone. People are not even making fun of you, it's beyond that. Gobsmacked was one of the words used to describe peoples' thoughts.

 

[JoePgh]

What a cop-out. I think Gabby and Collier are better players than Tuck. I'm not sure that makes me "far gone".

Waquoit, I have to give you (and a few others like Bizarro) credit for consistency. I saw the same thing in your comments last summer about Connecticut Sun personnel decisions. In your universe, athleticism is not only supreme; it is the only consideration. You will always choose the player who can run the fastest, jump the highest, and make the highlight-reel play. Intelligent play, positioning, seeing the floor, mentoring other players -- those dimensions have no significance in your basketball worldview.

Actually, Morgan Tuck is and (when healthy) always was a very good athlete. Look at last year's Mississippi State game and see how she got rebound after rebound against their 6-5 and 6-7 players (who weren't bad athletes themselves, but didn't position themselves or see the floor the way Morgan did). Notice also how she consistently got behind the defense for layups -- and Mississippi State had a record as an excellent defensive team.

I think Napheesa and Gabby are both intelligent players who may have more speed and leaping ability than Morgan (but probably less upper body strength). By the time they are seniors, they may be as good or better than Morgan was. But this year they would not have been. I do agree that they have developed more this year than they would have if Morgan were present and were soaking up a lot of minutes -- that was the point of my initial post.

The best or most talented athlete doesn't always win, any more than the hare always beats the tortoise (and Morgan is no tortoise). Why did Mel Thomas play ahead of Ketia Swanier? Why did Caroline Doty play ahead of freshman Moriah Jefferson? Why was Kaili McLaren often more productive than Charde Houston? Why does Diamond Deshields hurt her team as often as she helps it? Basketball, like most sports, has an "above the shoulders" dimension that can't be ignored.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I cannot imagine a single scenario in which Morgan would "hurt" a team. I can foresee multiple situations which show her being of immense benefit. BTW, she would play at her coaches pleasure.

I am willing to acknowledge my substantial personal bias and admiration for her as a player and a person, and I am glad to have that as part of my memory bank.

 

[Waquoit]

You not only didn't agree with this, you went on to say


Yea, you're way far gone. People are not even making fun of you, it's beyond that. Gobsmacked was one of the words used to describe peoples' thoughts.

One last try. You still haven't engaged debate here. Reposting a comment with a section in bold isn't debate. You didn't address my reasoned opinion, just doubled down on insult. I had a mentor, he told me if when someone can't win on the facts they get personal. Good advice.

 

[Waquoit]

Intelligent play, positioning, seeing the floor, mentoring other players -- those dimensions have no significance in your basketball worldview

This couldn't be more wrong. These are reasons I admire the UConn so much. I love team ball. The problem with these debates it that it may come off as disparaging. I don't think you mean to disparage this year's team. You don't think they play intelligently? You don't think they see the floor? Of course they do, they are the smartest team in the country. If they were joined by Tuck, she would fit right in as 6th man. Who would you sit to start her?

But while the race may not always go to the strongest or the swift, that's the way to bet.

 

[CocoHusky]

Of course they do, they are the smartest team in the country. If they were joined by Tuck, she would fit right in as 6th man. Who would you sit to start her?
But while the race may not always go to the strongest or the swift, that's the way to bet.

If this team were joined by Morgan-Morgan would lead the team as a starter and both the UCONN offense and Defense would be more efficient.
I would sit Saniya Chong and move KLS to guard if Morgan were on the team. At UCONN Morgan has played 3,4 & 5 brilliantly.
If you bet against Morgan you will lose just like every other team did while she was a member of the UCONN starting lineup.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

My late good friend HuskyBill useta say...If it is interesting, it was/is a good post/thread. He did care whether he agreed or not with the issue being discussed.

In honor of Bill I declare this a good thread. We all miss you Bill.

 

[meyers7]

One last try. You still haven't engaged debate here. Reposting a comment with a section in bold isn't debate. You didn't address my reasoned opinion, just doubled down on insult. I had a mentor, he told me if when someone can't win on the facts they get personal. Good advice.

Like I said, there is no debate with you. It's not possible. You're out there beyond debate. It would be like trying to convince you water was wet if you thought it was purple. Completely different sphere of reality. You can't have a rational debate with someone who does not have rational thoughts (strictly in this situation).

I realize you don't understand how far out there you are. You don't realize the absurdity of what you said. And that is the problem.

 

[bizarro aj]

Am i missing something but isn't tuck rehabbing an injury now? What makes you think she would be able help the current team if she had stayed? She would be a cheerleader on the bench is about it.