Did Morgan Help UConn By Leaving?

[Goodgood]

Of course Morgan's presence is needed. But at this point, with the short bench, ANY Big is welcome. Boykin would have been great help here as well. But the team would not have developed the same way as it is now. Everyone is taking ownership and contributing selflessly to the team and it is beautiful to watch. The starting five is possibly the most cohesive group of players ever at UConn and this is no knock on last year's team or any previous team.

If this team does not win the NC this year, it is only because of the short bench. It does not need more leaders. Morgan, Boykin and Courtney Edmark would have made the NC a cinch.

 

[meyers7]

What a cop-out. I think Gabby and Collier are better players than Tuck. I'm not sure that makes me "far gone".

You'd have a very, very hard time convincing me having a 5th year Sr, Captain, returning AA who has played mostly the post (which is probably where we are weakest), in the starting lineup would not be better.

You not only didn't agree with this, you went on to say

My case is simple. IMO, you need two guards in your starting line-up. And I think right now KLS, Gabby and Collier are all better players than Tuck. And together their whole is greater than the sum of their parts. Morgan is a great player and the more good players you have the better, but she would hold back this starting unit. Her role would be coming off the bench.

Yea, you're way far gone. People are not even making fun of you, it's beyond that. Gobsmacked was one of the words used to describe peoples' thoughts.

 

[JoePgh]

What a cop-out. I think Gabby and Collier are better players than Tuck. I'm not sure that makes me "far gone".

Waquoit, I have to give you (and a few others like Bizarro) credit for consistency. I saw the same thing in your comments last summer about Connecticut Sun personnel decisions. In your universe, athleticism is not only supreme; it is the only consideration. You will always choose the player who can run the fastest, jump the highest, and make the highlight-reel play. Intelligent play, positioning, seeing the floor, mentoring other players -- those dimensions have no significance in your basketball worldview.

Actually, Morgan Tuck is and (when healthy) always was a very good athlete. Look at last year's Mississippi State game and see how she got rebound after rebound against their 6-5 and 6-7 players (who weren't bad athletes themselves, but didn't position themselves or see the floor the way Morgan did). Notice also how she consistently got behind the defense for layups -- and Mississippi State had a record as an excellent defensive team.

I think Napheesa and Gabby are both intelligent players who may have more speed and leaping ability than Morgan (but probably less upper body strength). By the time they are seniors, they may be as good or better than Morgan was. But this year they would not have been. I do agree that they have developed more this year than they would have if Morgan were present and were soaking up a lot of minutes -- that was the point of my initial post.

The best or most talented athlete doesn't always win, any more than the hare always beats the tortoise (and Morgan is no tortoise). Why did Mel Thomas play ahead of Ketia Swanier? Why did Caroline Doty play ahead of freshman Moriah Jefferson? Why was Kaili McLaren often more productive than Charde Houston? Why does Diamond Deshields hurt her team as often as she helps it? Basketball, like most sports, has an "above the shoulders" dimension that can't be ignored.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

I cannot imagine a single scenario in which Morgan would "hurt" a team. I can foresee multiple situations which show her being of immense benefit. BTW, she would play at her coaches pleasure.

I am willing to acknowledge my substantial personal bias and admiration for her as a player and a person, and I am glad to have that as part of my memory bank.

 

[Waquoit]

You not only didn't agree with this, you went on to say


Yea, you're way far gone. People are not even making fun of you, it's beyond that. Gobsmacked was one of the words used to describe peoples' thoughts.

One last try. You still haven't engaged debate here. Reposting a comment with a section in bold isn't debate. You didn't address my reasoned opinion, just doubled down on insult. I had a mentor, he told me if when someone can't win on the facts they get personal. Good advice.

 

[Waquoit]

Intelligent play, positioning, seeing the floor, mentoring other players -- those dimensions have no significance in your basketball worldview

This couldn't be more wrong. These are reasons I admire the UConn so much. I love team ball. The problem with these debates it that it may come off as disparaging. I don't think you mean to disparage this year's team. You don't think they play intelligently? You don't think they see the floor? Of course they do, they are the smartest team in the country. If they were joined by Tuck, she would fit right in as 6th man. Who would you sit to start her?

But while the race may not always go to the strongest or the swift, that's the way to bet.

 

[CocoHusky]

Of course they do, they are the smartest team in the country. If they were joined by Tuck, she would fit right in as 6th man. Who would you sit to start her?
But while the race may not always go to the strongest or the swift, that's the way to bet.

If this team were joined by Morgan-Morgan would lead the team as a starter and both the UCONN offense and Defense would be more efficient.
I would sit Saniya Chong and move KLS to guard if Morgan were on the team. At UCONN Morgan has played 3,4 & 5 brilliantly.
If you bet against Morgan you will lose just like every other team did while she was a member of the UCONN starting lineup.

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

My late good friend HuskyBill useta say...If it is interesting, it was/is a good post/thread. He did care whether he agreed or not with the issue being discussed.

In honor of Bill I declare this a good thread. We all miss you Bill.

 

[meyers7]

One last try. You still haven't engaged debate here. Reposting a comment with a section in bold isn't debate. You didn't address my reasoned opinion, just doubled down on insult. I had a mentor, he told me if when someone can't win on the facts they get personal. Good advice.

Like I said, there is no debate with you. It's not possible. You're out there beyond debate. It would be like trying to convince you water was wet if you thought it was purple. Completely different sphere of reality. You can't have a rational debate with someone who does not have rational thoughts (strictly in this situation).

I realize you don't understand how far out there you are. You don't realize the absurdity of what you said. And that is the problem.

 

[bizarro aj]

Am i missing something but isn't tuck rehabbing an injury now? What makes you think she would be able help the current team if she had stayed? She would be a cheerleader on the bench is about it.

 

[CocoHusky]

Am i missing something but isn't tuck rehabbing an injury now? What makes you think she would be able help the current team if she had stayed? She would be a cheerleader on the bench is about it.

You are missing a lot. Morgan is rehabbing from an injury that happened near the end of the WNBA season-Sept 2016 (26 games in). If she had returned to UCONN she would not have been playing basketball this Summer and UCONN has only played 20 games. So do all the what if and gyrations you want. A healthy Morgan would have been a starter not a cheerleader.

 

[bizarro aj]

You are missing a lot. Morgan is rehabbing from an injury that happened near the end of the WNBA season-Sept 2016 (26 games in). If she had returned to UCONN she would not have been playing basketball this Summer and UCONN has only played 20 games. So do all the what if and gyrations you want. A healthy Morgan would have been a starter not a cheerleader.

I don't follow wnba so she started and played a lot of mins? IMO tuck can't make it through a whole season without getting injured so i highly doubt she would make it through 39 games to win another NC. Let me know when she brings her wnba to win the championship.

 

[CocoHusky]

I don't follow wnba so she started and played a lot of mins? IMO tuck can't make it through a whole season without getting injured so i highly doubt she would make it through 39 games to win another NC. Let me know when she brings her wnba to win the championship.

I will.
Please try better to make informed opinions-that one right there wasn't! UCONN played 38 games in Morgan's last CHAMPIONSHIP season.

 

[bizarro aj]

So how would tuck make a 21-0 team better? 2Yrs ago uconn won a NC without tuck and when they win a NC this year without her, would that prove they didn't need her?

 

[Ellie]

As resident lurker in good standing must say this was an interesting post to follow. Of course Geno would have loved the rotation possibilities of having Morgan Tuck around in tweaking this year's lineup and I would love some of the medical stuff a few of you are smoking who think otherwise. Now ... say, "Goodnight Gracie!"

 

[Ozzie Nelson]

As resident lurker in good standing must say this was an interesting post to follow. Of course Geno would have loved the rotation possibilities of having Morgan Tuck around in tweaking this year's lineup and I would love some of the medical stuff a few of you are smoking who think otherwise. Now ... say, "Goodnight Gracie!"

 

[CocoHusky]

2Yrs ago uconn won a NC without tuck and when they win a NC this year without her, would that prove they didn't need her?

Don't think so! Two years ago Morgan Tuck was in the middle of one of her finest CHAMPIONSHIP seasons at UCONN .

 

[Waquoit]

Like I said, there is no debate with you. It's not possible. You're out there beyond debate. It would be like trying to convince you water was wet if you thought it was purple. Completely different sphere of reality. You can't have a rational debate with someone who does not have rational thoughts (strictly in this situation).

I realize you don't understand how far out there you are. You don't realize the absurdity of what you said. And that is the problem.

There is no debate here because you refuse. I have tried to engage several times and you continue with the insults, not once presenting a counter. This is what I said, "This team would be deeper, but would they be better? Probably yes but I'm not sure the starting five would be better or more effective with Tuck." That's a reasonable take, not purple water.

 

[Los24]

There is no debate here because you refuse. I have tried to engage several times and you continue with the insults, not once presenting a counter. This is what I said, "This team would be deeper, but would they be better? Probably yes but I'm not sure the starting five would be better or more effective with Tuck." That's a reasonable take, not purple water.

So let me see if I can help here. I think there is some tongue and cheek going on. Meyers7 is making his case that its unfathomable that one of Geno's favorite players, all-american, #3 pick in the WNBA draft, etc... would be a detriment to any team. Also, her leadership is well regarded and always highlighted, even on a team with Stewie and MJ. That said, while experience is the best teacher, having someone like Morgan to mentor you is always a plus.

Also, did we not see Lou improve dramatically over the course of last year, and with a team that had three AA (plus a solid starter in Kia?) There are plenty of minutes available for growth and development.

I hate to be the one to mention it but the season is not over. Having Tuck for the FF (I assume they will be there) and against a possible rematch with an improved Baylor, Texas, Florida St, etc... would only improve our chances. South Carolina is a team that can beat us too if we get into foul trouble against their bigs.

So outside of your argument that it "could" have stunt some of the other players growth, which is far fetched but reasonable to mention, why would you not want her on this team?

 

[oldude]

So let me see if I can help here. I think there is some tongue and cheek going on. Meyers7 is making his case that its unfathomable that one of Geno's favorite players, all-american, #3 pick in the WNBA draft, etc... would be a detriment to any team. Also, her leadership is well regarded and always highlighted, even on a team with Stewie and MJ. That said, while experience is the best teacher, having someone like Morgan to mentor you is always a plus.

Also, did we not see Lou improve dramatically over the course of last year, and with a team that had three AA (plus a solid starter in Kia?) There are plenty of minutes available for growth and development.

I hate to be the one to mention it but the season is not over. Having Tuck for the FF (I assume they will be there) and against a possible rematch with an improved Baylor, Texas, Florida St, etc... would only improve our chances. South Carolina is a team that can beat us too if we get into foul trouble against their bigs.

So outside of your argument that it "could" have stunt some of the other players growth, which is far fetched but reasonable to mention, why would you not want her on this team?

I made this point earlier in this thread, as did some others, but it appears to have been lost in the discussion.

There is no way that a "healthy" Morgan Tuck would not be a great benefit to this team for all the reasons outlined previously. But since we are playing "what if" here, what if Morgan were to play well into the season only to go down with her fragile knees, UConn would be in a real pickle.

With their top post defender out and the prospect of a FF rematch with Baylor, SC, MD or another team with size and strength in the post, Gabby, Pheesa & Nat would have to go on a crash course on how to defend the post against lesser teams.

Under that scenario, the Huskies would not be as good as they are right now without Morgan.

 

[Los24]

I made this point earlier in this thread, as did some others, but it appears to have been lost in the discussion.

There is no way that a "healthy" Morgan Tuck would not be a great benefit to this team for all the reasons outlined previously. But since we are playing "what if" here, what if Morgan were to play well into the season only to go down with her fragile knees, UConn would be in a real pickle.

With their top post defender out and the prospect of a FF rematch with Baylor, SC, MD or another team with size and strength in the post, Gabby, Pheesa & Nat would have to go on a crash course on how to defend the post against lesser teams.

Under that scenario, the Huskies would not be as good as they are right now without Morgan.

Disagree. Gabby, Pheese and Nat (to lesser degree) would still have had plenty of minutes. The first couple games Gabby was on the bench for much of the game in foul trouble so if Tuck was around we might not have been one shot from losing. Perhaps she could have seen how to defend without fouling, which then if she did go down with injury they would be more prepared/skilled in defending the post.

Also, there is still plenty of season to go so if Gabby or Pheese go down with injury is your argument you wish you did not have them so Nat and Kyla had more minutes?

 

[Waquoit]

So let me see if I can help here. I think there is some tongue and cheek going on. Meyers7 is making his case that its unfathomable that one of Geno's favorite players, all-american, #3 pick in the WNBA draft, etc... would be a detriment to any team...So outside of your argument that it "could" have stunt some of the other players growth, which is far fetched but reasonable to mention, why would you not want her on this team?.

You lost it here. No one said that Tuck would be a detriment to this team. My answer to whether they would better if she came back was: "Probably yes but I'm not sure the starting five would be better or more effective with Tuck."

I never made the argument I didn't want her on this team, she would be great off the bench. Like you did here, people incorrectly restate one's argument and then comment on the inaccuracy. My argument is KLS, Gabby and Collier are all better players than her. They work together seamlessly and are blowing out good teams. Their quickness is a weapon. Tuck would not improve upon that. I think you folks are underestimating our current players. The only iteration that I read here that might make sense is sitting Chong. But I think you need two ball handlers, turnovers would increase with only one on the floor. That's not the UConn way.

Disagree if you must, but that doesn't make the argument "far out." I remember getting some grief about my way early gushing about Gabby. Two months later, Jay Bilas is saying the same thing.

 

[oldude]

Disagree. Gabby, Pheese and Nat (to lesser degree) would still have had plenty of minutes. The first couple games Gabby was on the bench for much of the game in foul trouble so if Tuck was around we might not have been one shot from losing. Perhaps she could have seen how to defend without fouling, which then if she did go down with injury they would be more prepared/skilled in defending the post.

Also, there is still plenty of season to go so if Gabby or Pheese go down with injury is your argument you wish you did not have them so Nat and Kyla had more minutes?

There are 200 minutes available to a team in a college bball game, a maximum of 40 per player. If Tuck came back, and was healthy, she would get 25-30+ minutes per game. That's 25-30+ minutes that somebody else is not getting.

Watching someone do something and doing it yourself are two different things. Gabby watched Tuck for 2 years, and when she got her opportunity, she struggled for several games with fouls until learning how to play without fouling. In addition, if Tuck was back, Gabby would have been a wing with Lou moving to the 2-guard. Nat would have backed up Tuck in the post. Next year, when Z & Batouly are eligible, Gabby will not be defending the post.

In addition, Pheesa would not have developed the monster low post offensive game that she has because Tuck would have been the 1st option inside on offense.

With Lou at the 2 and Kia at the 1, Saniya and Crystal would have had far less minutes and their development could have been limited as well.

Your last argument about Gabby & Pheesa going down with injury is completely irrelevant to this thread. My only point is that as great as Tuck is, she has micro-fractures in her knees that will limit her basketball playing days, and could have limited her had she come back as a redshirt senior.

 

[Los24]

You lost it here. No one said that Tuck would be a detriment to this team."

Then you state "I'm not sure the starting five would be better or more effective with Tuck." I think you are questioning if she would be a detriment. Either way I don't care to get into a back and forth on words. You question it and many of us gave the opinion to your question. Leaving an All-American, team leader and #3 draft pick off your team is hard to justify.

 

[bizarro aj]

You people do know that losing games is not the end of the world. I feel the same ways as geno in that this team needs a good ass kicking. So as far as tuck making the team better, she would only make them deeper because you can't get better than undefeated.