Details on Ollie's firing

[Vancat]

One thing is for sure, KO doesn't seem very smart.

 

[Candyman]

Please just settle with Ollie and end this. This is a bad look for all parties. negative attention we don't need while we are rebuilding. The more violations that they show Ollie violated the worse the school looks. The more attention this gets hurts us with recruiting and and puts pressue on the NCAA to issue sanctions not against Ollie since he isn't coaching but the program.

End the public fued and settle.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

So help me out? Why is this an issue. Impermissible benefit because he doesn't shoot them with every student?

Is that how Roy Williams does
it?

 

[jimva]

I have that same question. I want to know the chronology/timeline. People are assuming the NCAA investigated and this stuff came out; I am wondering whether we self-reported this stuff after digging it up ourselves, for the precise reason of using it as just cause.

Or maybe some of it came out in an exit interview with Miller? Or Benedict at least knew it was there for the getting?

This is all nonsense. If this was a CEO or a wall street banker that messed up everyone would be screaming for them not to get their payout.

The reality is KO messed up/fell short in several different areas. The contract he reviewed with legal counsel and signed had provisions on how to address this. It's over now, except for the settlement. A year from now no one will remember/care.

 

[Ewekon]

This is all nonsense. If this was a CEO or a wall street banker that messed up everyone would be screaming for them not to get their payout.

The reality is KO messed up/fell short in several different areas. The contract he reviewed with legal counsel and signed had provisions on how to address this. It's over now, except for the settlement. A year from now no one will remember/care.

I'm afraid we will remember and care if it scares away all these recruits we are supposed to be close with and that does worry me because it adds to the AAC issue.

 

[Rico444]

Coach K sets up meetings for recruits with former players and the likes of LeBron, KD and others - every coach who has any former players of note have done so
Shooting hoops with a recruit - if the ball bounced KO's way during a visit where the recruit was shooting in Gampel and KO hoisted a shot - yeah that's a bad one
Ray has a phone conversation with recruit - that's bad but Dan Hurley arranges to have Coach Blaney talk to someone he wants to have at UConn and everyone applauds that.
I have no idea about the "Atlanta trips" and that needs to be explained much more
If he did do some "egregious" things - fine no pay at all but I have yet to see anything that is deserving of a complete shutout
I hate the "he did it so you have to treat me the same" crap but JC did do a real lot of shady things and the only people harmed were the players who played after he "retired"
Listen - the guy didn't do his job as a recruiter to get the right bunch of kids and he failed - I would agree to severing ties due to lack of accomplishments in producing an acceptable product- no argument on that claim at all
But this stuff - AD David Benedict is proving he is just that a DB IMHO. Personally, I would like to see him out of here. Christ he couldn't even keep his buddy Lashlee here more than one season
Just cause- HawkHusky couldn't wait to say that, love it that you got it out of your system!!!
KO is gone - let's get past this and talk about the present and future of the team not KO

LOL.

"Shooting baskets with a recruit...minor violation! Just cause is an outrage!
Ray Allen calling a recruit....minor violation! Just cause is an outrage!
All-expenses paid trip to Atlanta to workout with an outside trainer...we don't know all the details, let's slow down guys!"

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

Please just settle with Ollie and end this. This is a bad look for all parties. negative attention we don't need while we are rebuilding. The more violations that they show Ollie violated the worse the school looks. The more attention this gets hurts us with recruiting and and puts pressue on the NCAA to issue sanctions not against Ollie since he isn't coaching but the program.

End the public fued and settle.

Your first sentence could be rewritten as, "Please just settle, Ollie, and end this." So far as I know, it would be equally plausible, except that neither party has agreed to unilaterally abandon its claims and adopt the others position. Settlement will require both parties to agree to the same thing. There's still time. It nearly always happen that way. I'm not privy to all of the information, and I don't know how an arbitrator will evaluate things in light of the facts and applicable law. I doubt you do either.

 

[jimva]

I'm afraid we will remember and care if it scares away all these recruits we are supposed to be close with and that does worry me because it adds to the AAC issue.

I hear you and agree. But this is getting a lot more play on BY than the real world

 

[CL82]

>>Hearst Connecticut Media acquired emails and other documentation regarding recent secondary violations committed by UConn. In one, Ollie shot a few baskets, while in street clothes on the way to lunch, with a recruit on an official visit Sept. 8-10, 2017, inside the Werth Family Champions Center. The recruit, whose name was redacted from the document, was Akinjo. His aunt posted video of Ollie shooting baskets with Akinjo, and it was ruled non-permissable by UConn’s compliance department since high school season had not concluded and the recruit hadn’t received proper medical clearance.<<

If this were the only thing even I would say c'mon... Though under the contract a university ruling of non-compliance is sufficient for a just cause dismissal.

 

[Ewekon]

I hear you and agree. But this is getting a lot more play on BY than the real world

Yes but ..... Other teams' coaches will negative recruit with "possible sanctions looming" true or not.

 

[kcc1442]

Here is what the Ollieistas don’t get. If you sign a contract that says you will not do x or we can void the contract, then you do x, how we enforce is t up to you. We can void the contract. We can totally ignore the breach or we can come to you and negotiate a settlement somewhere less than voiding the agreement. And it really doesn’t matter what we did in other cases. Indeed 2 things changed since Calhoun left. First the NCAA changed the rule such that head coaches are responsible for their programs. Second UConn was severely penalized for violations. Thus it is reasonable that UConn would hold Ollie to a hire standard than it had held other coaches who committed violations in the past.

I get it. There are s few remaining holdouts who deep down hope that somehow Ollie magically reappears on the bench for the opener. They will never accept that he should have been fired. (Hi 99 and stairs). But there is no question he broke the rules.

Yeah all the "past practice" talk is bs. There was also a different administration during the Calhoun era. What transpired years ago shouldn't have any bearing on today just because this admin wants to actually enforce the legals in the coaching contract. Set precedent isn't going to hold up in court when the precedent is dodging laws and impermissible benefits.

 

[Candyman]

Your first sentence could be rewritten as, "Please just settle, Ollie, and end this." So far as I know, it would be equally plausible, except that neither party has agreed to unilaterally abandon its claims and adopt the others position. Settlement will require both parties to agree to the same thing. There's still time. It nearly always happen that way. I'm not privy to all of the information, and I don't know how an arbitrator will evaluate things in light of the facts and applicable law. I doubt you do either.

I like my first sentence the way it is. Never said I was privy to anything. I am just pointing out that the longer and more public this goes the more it hurts the program. Ollie doesn't care about the program anymore so yes I am suggesting that UConn budge. My opinion is that Ollie would settle if offered but I could be wrong maybe he wants the full 10mil and then some. I don't care about Ollie or Miller only UConn basketball.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I have that same question. I want to know the chronology/timeline. People are assuming the NCAA investigated and this stuff came out; I am wondering whether we self-reported this stuff after digging it up ourselves, for the precise reason of using it as just cause.

Or maybe some of it came out in an exit interview with Miller? Or Benedict at least knew it was there for the getting?

If UConn dug it up and self reported to avoid the $10M, the word I would use to describe that is "brilliant". There is nothing that looks bad about that, it's savvy. Self reporting also tends to reduce the penalty from the NCAA, as does firing the perpetrator. So they lessen the impact on the next coach and free up enough money to hire a good one, which they did. Win win.

 

[Candyman]

I hear you and agree. But this is getting a lot more play on BY than the real world

Well Jay Bilas just retweeted the article and added his comments to his 2 million followers. It will pick up steam the longer this goes on.

 

[8893]

If UConn dug it up and self reported to avoid the $10M, the word I would use to describe that is "brilliant". There is nothing that looks bad about that, it's savvy. Self reporting also tends to reduce the penalty from the NCAA, as does firing the perpetrator. So they lessen the impact on the next coach and free up enough money to hire a good one, which they did. Win win.

I would use the term “pyrrhic.”

 

[HuskyHawk]

Here is what the Ollieistas don’t get. If you sign a contract that says you will not do x or we can void the contract, then you do x, how we enforce is t up to you. We can void the contract. We can totally ignore the breach or we can come to you and negotiate a settlement somewhere less than voiding the agreement. And it really doesn’t matter what we did in other cases. Indeed 2 things changed since Calhoun left. First the NCAA changed the rule such that head coaches are responsible for their programs. Second UConn was severely penalized for violations. Thus it is reasonable that UConn would hold Ollie to a hire standard than it had held other coaches who committed violations in the past.

I get it. There are s few remaining holdouts who deep down hope that somehow Ollie magically reappears on the bench for the opener. They will never accept that he should have been fired. (Hi 99 and stairs). But there is no question he broke the rules.

Maybe a lot of posters aren't familiar with these kinds of contracts? I'm baffled by people raising that argument. As someone who negotiates contracts for a living, it's something that is always included. You do not waive your rights by failing to assert them. If it is in your benefit to not enforce a contract right you have (against a Hall of Fame coach for example), then you don't. That doesn't mean that you can't enforce that clause against an incompetent slacker.

For those who are still confused, this required a 3 second search on Google and was the first result.
Waiver Sample Clauses

 

[HuskyHawk]

I would use the term “pyrrhic.”

I don't see any cost to UConn here. None. Within 48 hours the greater college basketball community will have moved on. There isn't a D1 university in the country that wouldn't have done what UConn did. There are probably a lot of fired coaches that would have been smarter and taken a settlement though.

 

[Pudge]

And they found reasoning when they discovered numerous NCAA violations. Unless Calhoun had the same clause in his contract (which would be surprising) then it doesn't matter, because we can't use the Ray Allen phone, we can't fly players to Atlanta for workouts, and we can't do the other things Ollie did.

If Calhoun had a similar clause, Ollie will get every cent he's owed. If not, he's looking at $0 or a whole lot less than $10MM.

He is going to get more than $0.

This will settle. But, do not be all high in mighty Boneyard Fans. This was not significant violations - in the whole scheme of Mens and Womens UConn. I accept the Fishy statement = that he was half-ass in his effort/preparation/coaching. AND ... for that, we know that he had never had this progression of coaching up the ranks like most guys. HE must have been damn good to win a NC winning 6 games (and NO ... I don't accept that Shabazz was the coach). But, Kevin Ollie never transformed into a fully developed MBB at this level. And he has himself to blame. He had plenty of people near that could have mentored him.

 

[JMick]

Well Jay Bilas just retweeted the article and added his comments to his 2 million followers. It will pick up steam the longer this goes on.

Why? Do you think the school released this information? This was coming out no matter what. You don't understand how FOIA works

 

[8893]

I don't see any cost to UConn here. None. Within 48 hours the greater college basketball community will have moved on. There isn't a D1 university in the country that wouldn't have done what UConn did. There are probably a lot of fired coaches that would have been smarter and taken a settlement though.

48 hours?!? From your keyboard to God’s ears! Dollars to Warde Manuel’s donuts we will be hearing about this in Every. Single. Broadcast. This. Season. At. Least.

There isn’t a D1 program where you wouldn’t find equal or in most cases far worse if you looked.

I do tend to agree with your last sentence but without any remote sense of what was offered and what was demanded it’s hard to know who was reasonable and who was not. In my experience it takes two to tango and things are seldom black and white.

No matter, I wish it had been settled quietly because this sucks and I fear we haven’t seen the last of the fallout.

 

[Candyman]

Why? Do you think the school released this information? This was coming out no matter what. You don't understand how FOIA works

I undertsand that I was responding to another poster who said this was just a story on the BY and not getting alot of play in the real world.

 

[Fishy]

This is something that no one outside of this board cares about.

Jay Bilas, et al, can tweet about it from now until Doomsday and that won’t change. They do not matter. No one cares.

At the beginning of all this, the hand-wringing was that going to cost UConn in their coaching search. Who would want to work for a school that would refuse to pay a contractual buyout?! And then they hired Hurley and that theory died in its crib.

Now it’s going to cost us with recruits? Please.

There is no scenario where paying that oaf $10,000,000 without a fight makes any sense.

 

[Excalibur]

Maybe a lot of posters aren't familiar with these kinds of contracts? I'm baffled by people raising that argument. As someone who negotiates contracts for a living, it's something that is always included. You do not waive your rights by failing to assert them. If it is in your benefit to not enforce a contract right you have (against a Hall of Fame coach for example), then you don't. That doesn't mean that you can't enforce that clause against an incompetent slacker.

For those who are still confused, this required a 3 second search on Google and was the first result.
Waiver Sample Clauses

Ok I'm a general counsel and senior HR executive. Contract or no contract, inconsistent treatment of like situations is a potential problem in the employment context, particularly when you start dealing with unions and, more importantly, protected classes. That said, I think UConn has a compelling story to tell here. Hall of fame coach retires but leaves behind numerous compliance issues. School articulates importance of strict compliance to new coach. Coach proceeds to not only fail to comply with rules, but then mislead administrators about the nature of the violations. It is the stressing of compliance at the time of hire that, if true (and I think the record supports that it is), is compelling here.

 

[CL82]

I would use the term “pyrrhic.”

I thought about this and I disagree. KO->DH is a big victory on it's own. If KO actually paid a player's mom, he's has no defense. And $10M is a material number for this athletic department. It's not optimal because KO is choosing to go down in flames, and because that UConn will get a bit smokey but it isn't a pyrrhic victory by any means.

 

[BlueMAB]

He is going to get more than $0.

This will settle. But, do not be all high in mighty Boneyard Fans. This was not significant violations - in the whole scheme of Mens and Womens UConn. I accept the Fishy statement = that he was half-ass in his effort/preparation/coaching. AND ... for that, we know that he had never had this progression of coaching up the ranks like most guys. HE must have been damn good to win a NC winning 6 games (and NO ... I don't accept that Shabazz was the coach). But, Kevin Ollie never transformed into a fully developed MBB at this level. And he has himself to blame. He had plenty of people near that could have mentored him.

Yeah, will probably get more than $0, but it should be significantly less than $10 mil.

And $30k to the mother of a recruit is a significant violation if it happened.

The rest isn't a big deal, but he made his bed with his actions on and off the court.