Details on Ollie's firing

[FDNY99]

Here is what the Ollieistas don’t get. If you sign a contract that says you will not do x or we can void the contract, then you do x, how we enforce is t up to you. We can void the contract. We can totally ignore the breach or we can come to you and negotiate a settlement somewhere less than voiding the agreement. And it really doesn’t matter what we did in other cases. Indeed 2 things changed since Calhoun left. First the NCAA changed the rule such that head coaches are responsible for their programs. Second UConn was severely penalized for violations. Thus it is reasonable that UConn would hold Ollie to a hire standard than it had held other coaches who committed violations in the past.

I get it. There are s few remaining holdouts who deep down hope that somehow Ollie magically reappears on the bench for the opener. They will never accept that he should have been fired. (Hi 99 and stairs). But there is no question he broke the rules.

I seriously hope aren’t painting me as a “Ollie never should have been fired” because if you are then I guess you have failed to see any of my posts on that subject.

 

[amory]

I get why the school needs to go this route, but man it feels scummy.

 

[JMick]

Eaton-Robb AP Story: UConn: Ollie fired for impermissible contact, workouts

>>Benedict said Ollie had three times certified to him that the program was in compliance with all NCAA rules.<<

"But my ethics" @whaler11

 

[Madmannsucks]

KO's contract has nothing to do with how the university treated JC.

KO violated his contract, therefore he doesn't get paid.

In a civil court, it probably does.

 

[Madmannsucks]

I get why the school needs to go this route, but man it feels scummy.

Probably best summation of my feelings on this. I get it, I don't like it one bit.

 

[businesslawyer]

First take: if KO flew kids to Atlanta to be trained by a friend, and they were boarded while there, that would be a huge deal. But it would come with NCAA sanctions.

While I'm not removing blame from KO for the other stuff mentioned, it seems like small potatoes used as an excuse rather than the reason why he was fired.

And that, in a nutshell, is UConn's problem. The University is trying to thread the needle between violations being egregious enough to warrant for cause dismissal, but not egregious enough to warrant NCAA sanctions. Normally, threading the needle is terrible litigation strategy because it's too difficult to win a victory that isn't pyrhic. We'll see.

 

[TRest]

First take: if KO flew kids to Atlanta to be trained by a friend, and they were boarded while there, that would be a huge deal. But it would come with NCAA sanctions.

While I'm not removing blame from KO for the other stuff mentioned, it seems like small potatoes used as an excuse rather than the reason why he was fired.

And that, in a nutshell, is UConn's problem. The University is trying to thread the needle between violations being egregious enough to warrant for cause dismissal, but not egregious enough to warrant NCAA sanctions. Normally, threading the needle is terrible litigation strategy because it's too difficult to win a victory that isn't pyrhic. We'll see.

Do you think UConn failed to pursue the "paying a mom $30k story " for that reason, or it just didn't pan out. Because I'm sure the NCAA will take a look.

 

[CL82]

First take: if KO flew kids to Atlanta to be trained by a friend, and they were boarded while there, that would be a huge deal. But it would come with NCAA sanctions.

While I'm not removing blame from KO for the other stuff mentioned, it seems like small potatoes used as an excuse rather than the reason why he was fired.

And that, in a nutshell, is UConn's problem. The University is trying to thread the needle between violations being egregious enough to warrant for cause dismissal, but not egregious enough to warrant NCAA sanctions. Normally, threading the needle is terrible litigation strategy because it's too difficult to win a victory that isn't pyrhic. We'll see.

Serious question: Does UConn need to show that "just cause" was the sole cause for firing or just that "just cause" for firing existed?

 

[intlzncster]

Do you think UConn failed to pursue the "paying a mom $30k story " for that reason, or it just didn't pan out. Because I'm sure the NCAA will take a look.

Nothings going to happen there. There's no evidence of anything. They can request an interview with the former player and his mom, but they aren't going to divulge anything. And the NCAA has no power to force them to talk or relinquish records. That's DOA.

 

[Da_Aisijimo_Gou]

Nothings going to happen there. There's no evidence of anything. They can request an interview with the former player and his mom, but they aren't going to divulge anything. And the NCAA has no power to force them to talk or relinquish records. That's DOA.

NCAA, no. Alluding to Miller's sort of, I think, supposedly uh like, only $30K allegation, references to Chillious' agent discussions regarding payments to some AAU program, etc, some interest by other entities could potentially evolve given broader college hoops investigations. DOJ? FBI? IRS? Ms. Player's Mom deposit individual gifts over $14K annually (2013-17) from a single source, pay taxes, who supposedly directly provided the gift, etc?

 

[intlzncster]

NCAA, no. Alluding to Miller's sort of, I think, supposedly uh like, only $30K allegation, references to Chillious' agent discussions regarding payments to some AAU program, etc, some interest by other entities could potentially evolve given broader college hoops investigations. DOJ? FBI? IRS? Ms. Player's Mom deposit individual gifts over $14K annually (2013-17) from a single source, pay taxes, who supposedly directly provided the gift, etc?

If the shoe companies are involved, then the FBI could possibly look into it. If not, they don't give a hoot about the kids and their families. Small fish for them.

 

[Waquoit]

Nothing can happen now that would be worse for the program than if Ollie was still the coach.

 

[CL82]

NCAA, no. Alluding to Miller's sort of, I think, supposedly uh like, only $30K allegation, references to Chillious' agent discussions regarding payments to some AAU program, etc, some interest by other entities could potentially evolve given broader college hoops investigations. DOJ? FBI? IRS? Ms. Player's Mom deposit individual gifts over $14K annually (2013-17) from a single source, pay taxes, who supposedly directly provided the gift, etc?

I wonder about the potential for a slander lawsuit by KO or Chill against Miller. He does qualify his statements that the information was secondhand, but KO has the deep pockets to pursue it, if he wanted to.

 

[ASweet3781]

Nothing can happen now that would be worse for the program than if Ollie was still the coach.

This is indisputable at this point. That's why I don't really care. Quotes from players and others close clearly demonstrate the change needed to be made at any cost.

 

[Hans Sprungfeld]

This will continue to get messy and will be very bad publicity for UConn should this not come to a mutual settlement soon. This will cause more damage to UConn Basketball than KO should this not stop soon. Herbst and Benedict doesn’t understand the importance of damage control at this time. The crazy thing is I always knew Ollie firing of Miller was going to lead to this... Miller is coming after UConn next... Is Miller lying to get back at Ollie and UConn? money and incompetence by Herbst and Benedict is bringing UConn down. Ollie wanted everyone to know who the rats are and who was burning UConn down...

This would be better if it were half the length and you cut out different sized letters from magazines. Just sayin'

 

[huskymedic]

 

[UConnNick]

I wonder about the potential for a slander lawsuit by KO or Chill against Miller. He does qualify his statements that the information was secondhand, but KO has the deep pockets to pursue it, if he wanted to.

Ollie's chances of proving a defamation case against Miller are even more remote than his chances of prevailing in arbitration and/or a federal court appeal challenging the arbitration decision.

It's extremely tough for public figures to successfully bring defamation cases. They have to prove not only the falsity of statements made, but also malice. Miller's statements made to the NCAA were not even published by him. He had zero control over the publication and release. He wasn't trashing Ollie on an internet blog of his own creation, or anything like that. For example, how does Ollie prove that Miller's statements about what his wife told him were false? If it's what she said he's just repeating hearsay. He doesn't say whether any of it is true or false, just what his wife told him about something.

 

[freescooter]

I seriously hope aren’t painting me as a “Ollie never should have been fired” because if you are then I guess you have failed to see any of my posts on that subject.

FD no way are you an Ollieistas.

 

[businesslawyer]

Serious question: Does UConn need to show that "just cause" was the sole cause for firing or just that "just cause" for firing existed?

I believe it depends on the language of the contract. Normally, to avoid severance you have to fire for just cause. If it exists but the jury doesn't believe that's why you fired him, I think the employee wins.

 

[krinklecut]

There's been a lot of talk about how this feels scummy and how it'll ruin, or at least damage, our reputation.

I don't get that. It might not look great for future coaches, but for the next hopefully long while, we don't have to worry about that. If we can get $10m back, great.

Who it does help our reputation with, however, is the NCAA. We're at a point now where the FBI is involved in NCAA violations, and there's going to be a lot of hell to pay for a lot of stuff,and the writing is on the wall that the NCAA is going to get even worse and really start cracking down on BS. To have a reputation with them that's "we take the stuff seriously" I just don't have a problem with that.

I don't know if KO deserves the money or not. I believe he should have been fired, and I'm not qualified to say what I think he does or does not deserve. At the end of the day his contract had pretty clear terms. If he violated those terms, see yah. If he didn't, pay the man.

I'm not worried about the rest; about our reputation and how this makes us look. This is getting coverage because it's baseball season.

 

[Mokum]

Do you think UConn failed to pursue the "paying a mom $30k story " for that reason, or it just didn't pan out. Because I'm sure the NCAA will take a look.

I am curious as to what the souce of the money was ( if this is true)

 

[Excalibur]

I believe it depends on the language of the contract. Normally, to avoid severance you have to fire for just cause. If it exists but the jury doesn't believe that's why you fired him, I think the employee wins.

In the discrimination context you are correct. If the plaintiff can show that the stated reason, even if true, was a pretext for a discriminatory act, he/she should win. Ollie hasn't, to my knowledge, claimed discrimination, but that his civil rights were violated due to the failure to follow the process required by the collective bargaining agreement.

 

[8893]

In the discrimination context you are correct. If the plaintiff can show that the stated reason, even if true, was a pretext for a discriminatory act, he/she should win. Ollie hasn't, to my knowledge, claimed discrimination, but that his civil rights were violated due to the failure to follow the process required by the collective bargaining agreement.

Agreed.

As I've said before, if I were representing Ollie here, I would look at breach of the covenant of good faith and fair dealing. I haven't looked at it in this context, but I suspect that it could get you to the same place, if you can demonstrate facts tending to show that NCAA violations were merely used as cover for a performance-based firing in an attempt to avoid paying the buyout.

 

[CL82]

In the discrimination context you are correct. If the plaintiff can show that the stated reason, even if true, was a pretext for a discriminatory act, he/she should win. Ollie hasn't, to my knowledge, claimed discrimination, but that his civil rights were violated due to the failure to follow the process required by the collective bargaining agreement.

The claim, if I remember correctly, was the failure to give Ollie notice of UConn's intent to fire. (Loudermill notice.) In the most recent release of information, there was a throw line that AD Dave, gave Ollie written notice two days before he met with him. It's not what I do for a living, but I think that meets the Loudermill requirements. This issue is one of the little sub-dramas that largely got overlooked by the board. If the administration botched that, as Ollie's lawyers claimed, it would have been a major screw up.

 

[August_West]

Agreed.

if you can demonstrate facts tending to show that NCAA violations were merely used as cover for a performance-based firing in an attempt to avoid paying the buyout.

And I think Ollies lawyers if they are worth their salt have a decent opportunity to make that case. It's not a slam dunk but there are some juicy items here related to timeline of application of cause that will raise some eyebrows.