Delany on East Coast pre-expansion push: espn

[HuskyHawk]

Just two thoughts to add.

1. While I don't know that UConn and Mizzou produce enough revenue to prevent their addition from being dilutive to the Big Ten, I think it is likely Mizzou would leave the SEC for the Big Ten in a nanosecond. Not because the league is better, and maybe not even for the immediate financial gain, but because MIssouri as an institution wants to view itself as being comparable to its neighbors to the North, like Illinois, and not to the South, like Arkansas.

2. Can we please never again hear the crazy notion that we're not in the ACC because we didn't want to beat out LV for that slot because we already know the invite to the Big Ten is coming. I think it is absolutely clear that the UConn administration wanted the ACC invite and in fact had heard from sources they mistakenly believed that it was coming. Might it be a good thing we're not already locked in the ACC -- that is possible (I don't believe it but it's possible), but reinventing history is just dumb.

I generally agree, but Mizzou is a very conflicted place. St. Louis is absolutely Big Ten country, borders Illinois and has tons of Chicago connections. In fact Mizzou itself gets tons of kids from Chicago. KC is Big XII (Big 8 before that) central, and while the Big 10 has some appeal, not as much. Springfield and the Ozarks are probably a good fit for the SEC. So I'm not sure how quickly they would leave, if at all. If Mizzou and Kansas were going to the B1G, it would be pretty fast. Mizzou and UConn? Missouri can fit anywhere. It borders two B1G states, two SEC states and three Big XII states (with Iowa counting).

People don't often think of it this way, but St. Louis is about the same distance from each of Chicago, Indianapolis, Memphis and Nashville. Springfield is closer to Fayetteville, Arkansas than to KC or St. Louis. U Arkansas is quite popular in southern MO (my 2nd cousin from Carthage MO decided to go there).

 

[babysheep]

If PSU's 50k students don't come from big cities, then where do they come from? The middle of the state is basically bare.

They come from Philly mostly, some from Pittsburgh.

Many, many people from Jersey go there from my experience.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The SEC taking Cincinnati is like the PAC 10 taking San Diego State. Not gonna happen.

Cincinnati and SDSU are not comparable. If you don't see why i don't want to waste time explaining it to you.

 

[Waquoit]

I read these threads for fun. But I have yet to see one plausible scenario that gets us out of the American. Again, we are like Cliff Robertson in Charly. We hit the big-time and thrived but it's all slipping away.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Cincinnati and SDSU are not comparable. If you don't see why i don't want to waste time explaining it to you.

How are they not? Urban state universities with limited local appeal, and sports teams that are more successful than the norm for such schools. Cinci has better historical programs on average, but SDSU has had success in both basketball and football. Neither school has any significant appeal beyond the 50 mile radius of its campus. SDSU is probably in much better shape there, as it has less local competition and most grads stay in SD.

 

[Fairfield_1st]

It's kinda part of the straight flush of disaster that UConn has drawn from the start on realignment.

Well put. I'm holding out hope, albeit slim, that maybe the B1G would go to 3 pods of 5 in the short term until they figure out 16.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I read these threads for fun. But I have yet to see one plausible scenario that gets us out of the American. Again, we are like Cliff Robertson in Charly. We hit the big-time and thrived but it's all slipping away.

I tend to agree with you, and I am sure that staying in the AAC and waiting to be saved is a failing strategy.

 

[Stinger92860]

@tduconn I wouldn't worry about Pitt to the B1G. They wouldn't double dip in PA. I could see Syracuse getting an invite based on NY State / NYC population.

I think in my ideal world we'd go to the B1G with Cuse and Rutgers and the basketball tournament back at MSG.

We have 1M more TV households than Syracuse, approximately 3.5X to the Syracuse amount and we are in the NYC DMA. I repeat we are in the NYC DMA.

 

[Dooley]

Why can't the B1G go to 15 for now just by adding UCONN? They were at 11 for years before they brought in Nebraska.

I would say UCONN basketball moves needles. Give UCONN football a few years of B1G scheduling and this area will go dogsh1t crazy.

 

[woomba]

Unless there is a NCAA rule change the only way to make 15 schools work is to have unbalanced divisions - the scheduling implications of that makes the idea very unattractive to most schools.

The situation with 11 schools is a bit different in that they didn't need to split into divisions until Nebraska joined and this also allowed them to host a CCG.

 

[huskyrob1]

Why can't the B1G go to 15 for now just by adding UCONN? They were at 11 for years before they brought in Nebraska.

I would say UCONN basketball moves needles. Give UCONN football a few years of B1G scheduling and this area will go dogsh1t crazy.

I think they might do just that, and maybe very soon. This summer before the season gets rolling is my guess. I mean no one in authority in CT (Senators, congressmen, or the Governor) has said anything about UCONN's predicament in the press, and none of them blew CT's horn in the press when we just won two NC's. I thought for sure someone was gonna blow the trumpet at the welcome home ceremony but yet no one did. Why? And do you think Jim Delaney just opened an office in NYC just to welcome Rutgers for ? I mean if the ACC invites UCONN tomorrow, they effectively lock the B1G out of the New York/New England market, and of course Jim Delaney and Susan Herbst know that. Also remember that the NY market is very important from a basketball sense, not just football, I mean the B1G might not be trying to compete with the Giants and Jets but might be competing with the Knicks, who have not been a factor in the NBA for decades. The Knicks cannot even fill the Garden anymore but the University of Connecticut can. NYC basketball fans want a winner and UCONN might be it, certainly not the Rutgers basketball team.

 

[sdhusky]

How are they not? Urban state universities with limited local appeal, and sports teams that are more successful than the norm for such schools. Cinci has better historical programs on average, but SDSU has had success in both basketball and football. Neither school has any significant appeal beyond the 50 mile radius of its campus. SDSU is probably in much better shape there, as it has less local competition and most grads stay in SD.

I would love to hear his logic. I know dozens of SDSU graduates

 

[Ldandy]

If Delany wanted any of Kansas, Mizzou, Pitt, or Syracuse, they would already be in The B1G. He wouldn't have waited for 3 of 4 of these schools to become ensnared in GOR deals before making his move. It flys in the face of all logic. He passed multiple times on all 4 and would pass again. His eye is firmly fixed on Flagship Eastern Schools not low population Midwestern's, Little brothers
with awful athletics, and has been privates. Only a UT or ND suddenly wanting to be total team players would avert his gaze.

 

[huskyrob1]

If Delany wanted any of Kansas, Mizzou, Pitt, or Syracuse, they would already be in The B1G. He wouldn't have waited for 3 of 4 of these schools to become ensnared in GOR deals before making his move. It flys in the face of all logic. He passed multiple times on all 4 and would pass again. His eye is firmly fixed on Flagship Eastern Schools not low population Midwestern's, Little brothers
with awful athletics, and has been privates. Only a UT or ND suddenly wanting to be total team players would avert his gaze.

Pitt would never get an invite to the B1G, think of Pitt as UCONN and Penn State as BC. They hate each other. No love lost between Pitt and OSU either.

 

[upstater]

If Delany wanted any of Kansas, Mizzou, Pitt, or Syracuse, they would already be in The B1G. He wouldn't have waited for 3 of 4 of these schools to become ensnared in GOR deals before making his move. It flys in the face of all logic. He passed multiple times on all 4 and would pass again. His eye is firmly fixed on Flagship Eastern Schools not low population Midwestern's, Little brothers
with awful athletics, and has been privates. Only a UT or ND suddenly wanting to be total team players would avert his gaze.

I'm not entirely convinced of the Kansas and Missouri part of that. I think the old OSU Pres. mentioned that they may have messed up on a school (sounded like he was talking about Mizzou). It's likelier that Delany was waiting for the right time to blow up the ACC and grab what he really wanted. He may still be waiting for that. But I think Kansas and UConn are still good pieces to have. The ACC is trumpeting to everyone that they are the best bball conference ever, and Kansas and UConn are two good chips to counter that argument should it ever be needed.

 

[B1GALUM]

I'm not entirely convinced of the Kansas and Missouri part of that. I think the old OSU Pres. mentioned that they may have messed up on a school (sounded like he was talking about Mizzou). It's likelier that Delany was waiting for the right time to blow up the ACC and grab what he really wanted. He may still be waiting for that. But I think Kansas and UConn are still good pieces to have. The ACC is trumpeting to everyone that they are the best bball conference ever, and Kansas and UConn are two good chips to counter that argument should it ever be needed.

Upstater. Here is the quote from Gee:
“I think the Big Ten needs to be predatory and positive rather than waiting for other people to take away from them. Very candidly, I think we made a mistake. Because thought about adding Missouri and Kansas at the time. There was not a great deal of enthusiasm about that. I think we should have done that at the time. So we would have had Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas and then moved into that other area. I think, by the way, that that can still happen.”

 

[ConnHuskBask]

We have 1M more TV households than Syracuse, approximately 3.5X to the Syracuse amount and we are in the NYC DMA. I repeat we are in the NYC DMA.

It's the total population of the state and the extent it can get basic carriage in NYC.

 

[Stinger92860]

It's the total population of the state and the extent it can get basic carriage in NYC.

I am not sure that the DMA includes all eastern portions of the state, not that it matters. The Hartford-New Haven DMA does not include Fairfield County.

 

[Fishy]

I am not sure that the DMA includes all eastern portions of the state, not that it matters. The Hartford-New Haven DMA does not include Fairfield County.

The New York City DMA, which is bizarrely conceded to Rutgers by the media, includes about a million people who reside inside of the Connecticut state borders.

It also includes Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess and Suffolk Counties that, if anything, would be more predisposed to Connecticut than RU.

 

[Stinger92860]

The DMA discussion is important for us and most folks outside of CT do not understand. There are approximately 1M households in the Hartford-New Haven DMA which is currently ranked 30th in the USA based on size. It is ahead of Kansas City, Columbus, etc. Fairfield County has approximately 325K households in the NYC DMA, giving CT at least 1.325M TV households. The 1.325M number would place us 21st in the USA. This would place us ahead of St Louis and just behind Stockton CA.

If you are the B1G and you need tv's in the east there are only 20 DMA's larger than us, many of which are already covered.

Look for yourself => http://www.tvb.org/media/file/TVB_Market_Profiles_Nielsen_TVHH_DMA_Ranks_2013-2014.pdf

The cities not covered and ahead of us appear to be Philly, Orlando and Tampa. Interestingly all AAC markets at the moment.

 

[Ldandy]

Upstater. Here is the quote from Gee:
“I think the Big Ten needs to be predatory and positive rather than waiting for other people to take away from them. Very candidly, I think we made a mistake. Because thought about adding Missouri and Kansas at the time. There was not a great deal of enthusiasm about that. I think we should have done that at the time. So we would have had Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas and then moved into that other area. I think, by the way, that that can still happen.”

1)Gee is a blowhard known for constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

2)Gee's statement has a lot of I think and not we thought or the conference thought in it. All we know from his statement is that outside of his hindsight there was little enthusiasm in conference circles for adding either school.

3)I have no issue personally w/adding Mizzou, Kansas or both. They both fit the academic profile and bring value athletically. That said either one could have been had Post Big 8 Conference and again during the Big 12 upheaval of 2010-11. Mizzou was publicly campaigning for an offer IIRC. Both are currently in separate conferences not named The B1G.

I suppose if the conference ever goes to 20 or more teams they could come into play, but why ignore them forever only to consider them when it becomes a markedly more difficult proposition?

 

[upstater]

It's the total population of the state and the extent it can get basic carriage in NYC.

??? New York is a big state with multiple DMAs. Not just one. The total population of the state is relevant how? Rutgers at least has a claim to New Jersey as the big state school.

 

[upstater]

1)Gee is a blowhard known for constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

2)Gee's statement has a lot of I think and not we thought or the conference thought in it. All we know from his statement is that outside of his hindsight there was little enthusiasm in conference circles for adding either school.

3)I have no issue personally w/adding Mizzou, Kansas or both. They both fit the academic profile and bring value athletically. That said either one could have been had Post Big 8 Conference and again during the Big 12 upheaval of 2010-11. Mizzou was publicly campaigning for an offer IIRC. Both are currently in separate conferences not named The B1G.

I suppose if the conference ever goes to 20 or more teams they could come into play, but why ignore them forever only to consider them when it becomes a markedly more difficult proposition?

Good questions. Very good. I think both would have been solid adds. But did Delany hold out for Virginia and North Carolina? That would have brought the B1G to 16.

 

[Ldandy]

Pitt would never get an invite to the B1G, think of Pitt as UCONN and Penn State as BC. They hate each other. No love lost between Pitt and OSU either.

Love lost really has little to do with it. If PSU and Pitt were actually great partners, and The Lions openly campaigned for their inclusion, there is almost zero chance Pitt would get in. Their redundant TV market in no way adds to the conference pie. No legacy B1G School is going to take less money so that they can play Pitt.

 

[B1GALUM]

1)Gee is a blowhard known for constantly putting his foot in his mouth.

2)Gee's statement has a lot of I think and not we thought or the conference thought in it. All we know from his statement is that outside of his hindsight there was little enthusiasm in conference circles for adding either school.

3)I have no issue personally w/adding Mizzou, Kansas or both. They both fit the academic profile and bring value athletically. That said either one could have been had Post Big 8 Conference and again during the Big 12 upheaval of 2010-11. Mizzou was publicly campaigning for an offer IIRC. Both are currently in separate conferences not named The B1G.

I suppose if the conference ever goes to 20 or more teams they could come into play, but why ignore them forever only to consider them when it becomes a markedly more difficult proposition?

1) Agree but his lack of a filter did provide at least some insight into behind the scenes discussions.

2) Agree that Mizzou and Kansas were more of interest to him personally rather than the B1G leadership as a whole otherwise both would have been invited.

3) The future of B1G expansion lies to the East. The only B1G expansion to the West would have to involve Texas. Do you agree with this perspective?

 

[B1GEast]

If the 10 grabs Uconn, they get the rest of New England as well as well as a chunk of metro NYC, that's a lot of eye balls. Our only strategy right now is to just keep winning.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

??? New York is a big state with multiple DMAs. Not just one. The total population of the state is relevant how? Rutgers at least has a claim to New Jersey as the big state school.

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

 

[JayRU09]

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

That's the goal to get BTN onto basic cable, but Syracuse isn't in the NYC metro which is the only market in NY the B1G cares about. Syracuse won't bring you that and someone else said it before.....if people were afraid of UCONN post Calhoun, they're even more terrified of Syracuse post-Boeheim. Once he's gone that's it for Cuse. No recruiting base, snowiest city in America, small private school, an island in its own conference already.

The ACC's moves have all been for quick gains, and Pittsburgh for some reason. But Cuse and the Ville were short term moves. ACC/ESPN will keep pointing to the Duke vs. Cuse rating during the regular season, but let's see how it is five years from now. Let's see how it is in the post Boeheim era. Don't have much hope for them.

 

[upstater]

I could've sworn that the agreement was that if a B1G school was in your state that BTN would be on basic tier cable.

Syracuse would more or less give the same bump as UConn in addition to Rutgers in NYC too.

There is no such agreement. If this were true, BTN would be on in Easstern PA., where it earns pennies on the dollar.

Also, Syracuse doesn't carry the NYC DMA in the same way UConn does. Syracuse may have just as much interest in NYC as UConn does, but because the NYC DMA extends into Conn., it doesn't have the same oomph. Remember when SNY bumped a Syracuse men's BE game for the UConn women? A lot of that has to do with the fact that sliver of Conn. being inside NY, and the intensity for UConn in that sliver is greater than the intensity for Syracuse or UConn inside the 5 boroughs.

 

[Gfunk]

Missouri is the only other #16 candidate available. The SEC does not have a GOR.

I do think the Big 10 would add just 1 if it wanted to (it sat at 11 for years), but if it wanted 2, it would grab Missouri and UConn. St. Louis is an attractive market.

I wish the SEC would start talking about a GOR just to shake the tree a little and see whether the Big 10 would make a move. The SEC would replace Missouri with Cincinnati and not bat an eyelash. I think the northern SEC schools would even like to be in Ohio, because they are confident they can kick the Big 10's butt in their own backyard when it comes to recruiting.

All that matters is the dollars though, and I don't see how UConn or Missouri generate an extra $45MM for the Big 10.

Not really.

The SEC has already gotten plenty of Ohio talent in basketball and football over the years, esp the former. Ohio basketball players regularly head off to Lville, Ky, other BIG schools. But in football, top shelf Ohio kids love the Bucks, that won't change. Interestingly, OSU has been developing a national footprint in basketball under Matta, football, they've been able to recruit nationally for decades & long ago developed a southern strategy, esp during segregation.

But, it would be great to see the SEC grab Cincy - actually fascinating. I thought Mizzou to the SEC was quite interesting and actually guessed they'd inevitably succeed in football - they offer an interesting change to the Southeast kids - these kids can get a taste of different regional culture, but play a familiar SEC schedule.

On the other hand, Ky has plenty of Midwestern states on its border: In, Oh, Ill, Mo - who's to say they can't go BIG? Ky basketball has long depended on Chicago Land talent, esp in the modern era.

Kentuckiana & the Ohio River Valley (ORV), & I'm kindly limiting this list to IU, Cincy, OSU, Lville, Ky, & Xavier, my opinion, has been the most successful basketball region for a long time, but the lack of a more singular conference has diminished its value when compared to say Tobacco Road and even all of Va. The ORV has superior numbers to any other region in terms of m. college basketball: NCAA titles, Final Fours, NCAA wins, etc. The above schools, which is not all of the great basketball programs in the ORV, has 19 NCAA titles, and around 50 Final Fours. But again, that list draws from 5 different conferences: BIG, AAC, ACC, SEC and Big East. Find another region, similar radius, it won't compare.