Decision on Tourney Eligibility within 10 days

[caw]

Soo..I can't tell, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me? It helps to see it laid out like that, but I think you have a better understanding of how the APR is calculated than I do. I'm under the impression that you receive a certain amount of points per year if you fulfill your requirements as a student athlete, but if you decide to transfer, you may lose points even if you are fulfilling your obligations. Do you have a list of the kids who stayed at UConn for four or more years but did not graduate? I'm just trying to better my understanding on what percentage of our poor APR score can be attributed to transfers/unusual circumstances and what percentage can be attributed to kids not giving a damn about academics. It would seem to me that the poor score is due more in part to the former, but I haven't broke down the numbers because I don't have all the information.

Would you agree despite the poor APR score that the NCAA is completely out of bounds in enforcing a consequence that nobody knew about until recently? That's the part that bothers me. I don't want to make it sound like complying with the APR is an option, but that's certainly the way certain teams treated it, including UConn. In their minds, the punishment for not complying did not outweigh the benefits of working around it.

I am agreeing to a point. There are some things out of UConn's control, there is just as much in UConn's control.

 

[upstater]

I fully agree the APR is a horrid system, or at least it's a horrid system to be used the way it is used. The insane idea that it somehow is a measure of graduation rates or academic success of student athletes is repugnant. I'm sure a better (more accurate design) could be instituted, I don't believe it could be done in 30 seconds (thus the smiley).

Ohh, I want a fully workable system that will fairly assess and punish all member institutions for the success and or failure of their student-athletes based on GPA and grad rates, but of course it must be accepted by said institutions so the big boys don't decide to leave and go start their own member institution. Good luck.

Assess and punish? UConn is being punished. It didn't take long for me to write what I wrote. Your last point is a good one. A real system would be rejected instantly. It's the reason why they've never gone to high admission standards. Derrick Rose never plays college ball if they did. Brandon Jennings couldn't find a place to play because of those very low standards he couldn't clear. Raise them a bit and you get many more like him.

The outcome you want, if I'm reading you correctly, is exactly what the APR does. Measure GPA and grad rates. Now, grad rates are meaningful but GPA isn't necessarily since you could have a high GPA in tiddlywinks. So, if that's the outcome, it would seem the APR suits fine.

A better outcome would be to ensure that students are proceeding toward their degrees. That is better measure.

 

[Chief00]

So are folks saying that Emmert , who if we are to believe many posters has no input or influence on these things, states this matter will be resolved in 10 days.

 

[freescooter]

Assess and punish? UConn is being punished. It didn't take long for me to write what I wrote. Your last point is a good one. A real system would be rejected instantly. It's the reason why they've never gone to high admission standards. Derrick Rose never plays college ball if they did. Brandon Jennings couldn't find a place to play because of those very low standards he couldn't clear. Raise them a bit and you get many more like him.

The outcome you want, if I'm reading you correctly, is exactly what the APR does. Measure GPA and grad rates. Now, grad rates are meaningful but GPA isn't necessarily since you could have a high GPA in tiddlywinks. So, if that's the outcome, it would seem the APR suits fine.

A better outcome would be to ensure that students are proceeding toward their degrees. That is better measure.

I don't disagree with you really, but unless you reform the system that allows, indeed encourages guys to come for one and 2 years rather than really coming to get an education as well as play basketball, what difference does it make whether you measure whether guys are proceeding toward their degree? If you have a system where a player, lets use Charlie Villanueva rather than a current player, made absolutley no bones about the fact that he was merely buying time until he got drafted,who was at UCONN for basketball purposes only, and under almost no circumstances short of a career ending injury was he staying at UCONN for 4 years, what the heck difference does it make whether you measure "progress toward a degree" for big time basketball players? I mean, the whole freaking Kentucky team has zero intention of getting a degree. If 1 of their freshmen is still in college next season, never mind making progress toward a degree, it will be a shock so what difference does it make if he is making progress toward a degree or not? In some ways the APR recognizes this reality and merely tries to make sure that guys at least stay in school for the semester after the basketball season ends. It trys to avoid the situation where a guy finishes th ebasketball season and then just leaves. the situation I remeber that best illustrates this was the SEton Hall kid, Glazer I think his name was, from Austrailia. After the Hall got beaten by Michigan he pretty much left he Kingdome and got on a plane back to Australia.

 

[djct1999]

per espn college hoops blog Q&A with Mark Emmert.

One thing I think most people have supported is the idea of making the APR more punitive -- that if the grades aren't there, you shouldn't be in the NCAA tournament. The first real high-profile school to be affected by that is Connecticut. It's been public about its desire for an appeals process. Should that be a possibility?

Emmert: There is an appeals process. They've made one appeal, and they're going to submit their second and final appeal on this coming Monday. Monday, I assume, they will file another appeal. That will go to the Committee on Academic Performance -- CAP, as the acronym is called -- and then they'll make a final ruling on their eligibility.

What are the different things that would affect an appeal like that? The APR seems sort of cut and dry -- your APR was bad, that's the rule, deal with it.

Emmert: Well, this is a new rule. This will be one of the first rulings on it. The committee will have to consider what things can or not be considered as mitigating factors in that performance. So this is completely different than an infractions case, because this is about qualification. What the board and the CAP said last fall was going forward, teams have to qualify two ways -- they have to qualify on the court or the field and they have to qualify in the classroom. One is not sufficient. You have to do both. So the committee will consider Connecticut or anyone else's appeals and whether there are any mitigating factors or whether their score should be considered differently for some reason.

 

[Chief00]

What the board and the CAP said last fall was going forward, teams have to qualify two ways -- they have to qualify on the court or the field and they have to qualify in the classroom. One is not sufficient.

Like many Political Science Professors Emmert is really not very bright. He said what the board and the CAP said "last fall was going forward teams have to qualify two ways'" . Yet the genius goes back 4 years to extract revenge on Calhoun. Not exactly last fall and going forward.

 

[businesslawyer]

I don't disagree with you really, but unless you reform the system that allows, indeed encourages guys to come for one and 2 years rather than really coming to get an education as well as play basketball, what difference does it make whether you measure whether guys are proceeding toward their degree? If you have a system where a player, lets use Charlie Villanueva rather than a current player, made absolutley no bones about the fact that he was merely buying time until he got drafted,who was at UCONN for basketball purposes only, and under almost no circumstances short of a career ending injury was he staying at UCONN for 4 years, what the heck difference does it make whether you measure "progress toward a degree" for big time basketball players? I mean, the whole freaking Kentucky team has zero intention of getting a degree. If 1 of their freshmen is still in college next season, never mind making progress toward a degree, it will be a shock so what difference does it make if he is making progress toward a degree or not? In some ways the APR recognizes this reality and merely tries to make sure that guys at least stay in school for the semester after the basketball season ends. It trys to avoid the situation where a guy finishes th ebasketball season and then just leaves. the situation I remeber that best illustrates this was the SEton Hall kid, Glazer I think his name was, from Austrailia. After the Hall got beaten by Michigan he pretty much left he Kingdome and got on a plane back to Australia.

Andrew Gaze. His father was one of the leading basketball coaches in Australia, and he played in a number of Olympics after leaving the Hall.

 

[upstater]

I don't disagree with you really, but unless you reform the system that allows, indeed encourages guys to come for one and 2 years rather than really coming to get an education as well as play basketball, what difference does it make whether you measure whether guys are proceeding toward their degree? If you have a system where a player, lets use Charlie Villanueva rather than a current player, made absolutley no bones about the fact that he was merely buying time until he got drafted,who was at UCONN for basketball purposes only, and under almost no circumstances short of a career ending injury was he staying at UCONN for 4 years, what the heck difference does it make whether you measure "progress toward a degree" for big time basketball players? I mean, the whole freaking Kentucky team has zero intention of getting a degree. If 1 of their freshmen is still in college next season, never mind making progress toward a degree, it will be a shock so what difference does it make if he is making progress toward a degree or not? In some ways the APR recognizes this reality and merely tries to make sure that guys at least stay in school for the semester after the basketball season ends. It trys to avoid the situation where a guy finishes th ebasketball season and then just leaves. the situation I remeber that best illustrates this was the SEton Hall kid, Glazer I think his name was, from Austrailia. After the Hall got beaten by Michigan he pretty much left he Kingdome and got on a plane back to Australia.

Progressing toward a degree means you're taking legitimate classes that will count toward a degree.

 

[freescooter]

Andrew Gaze. His father was one of the leading basketball coaches in Australia, and he played in a number of Olympics after leaving the Hall.

Yep, that's the one. I don't even think he took the team flight back to New Jersey. Went directly back to Austrailia. I actually agree with upstater in theory by the way. But I just think that it is pretty senseless to worry about a guy who has zero intention or zero interest in graduating. I think the larger system needs reforming such that 1-and-done is the exception, that guys who leave early are the rarities, and that guys who come to play college basketball are actually committed to college as well as basketball.

 

[businesslawyer]

I don't disagree with you really, but unless you reform the system that allows, indeed encourages guys to come for one and 2 years rather than really coming to get an education as well as play basketball, what difference does it make whether you measure whether guys are proceeding toward their degree? If you have a system where a player, lets use Charlie Villanueva rather than a current player, made absolutley no bones about the fact that he was merely buying time until he got drafted,who was at UCONN for basketball purposes only, and under almost no circumstances short of a career ending injury was he staying at UCONN for 4 years, what the heck difference does it make whether you measure "progress toward a degree" for big time basketball players? I mean, the whole freaking Kentucky team has zero intention of getting a degree. If 1 of their freshmen is still in college next season, never mind making progress toward a degree, it will be a shock so what difference does it make if he is making progress toward a degree or not? In some ways the APR recognizes this reality and merely tries to make sure that guys at least stay in school for the semester after the basketball season ends. It trys to avoid the situation where a guy finishes th ebasketball season and then just leaves. the situation I remeber that best illustrates this was the SEton Hall kid, Glazer I think his name was, from Austrailia. After the Hall got beaten by Michigan he pretty much left he Kingdome and got on a plane back to Australia.

This is the real issue here. Unless you're willing to stop bringing in players who are using colleges as a minor league, rather than to play basketball while earning a degree, there is no system you can put in place that won't be irrational to a large degree. Because the premise is irrational to start with.

 

[freescooter]

bl, that is exactly right! And that is the situation that the NCAA absolutely refuses to face.