CSM Preseason All American Teams - Well looky here

[huskyd]

Great call on the difficulty of Megan becoming freshman of the year and the wrong-headedness about Z being "only" 3rd team. I don't dispute Gabby at 2nd team: the same richness of talent that will limit Megan's minutes may well limit Gabby's opportunities to dominate. Kia should surprise, depending on what position she's at: point or 2 guard. Her jumper really improved by the middle of last year, and if she can continue that, and can begin completing more of those power drives (she seems to think that just getting to the basket is the point: gotta finish with finesse, Kia!), then she will be awesome.

But in any case, it's clear that no team can put on the court anything remotely like the talent that UConn has.

All true. Now, since B. Turner is not going to play this year, how about inserting Gabby in her place on the 1st team? Frankly, I'd rather have Williams than Turner anyway. And, as you imply, Kia needs to find a place in there somewhere; she's an essential component of UConn's success. By year's end, Azura will be on everyone's 1st team IMO.

 

[Vowelguy]

Madness Women's Basketball Preseason All-American Teams

No love for Kia, Azurá on the third team and Gabbyriffic on the second team, while out for the season Brianna Turner sits smiling on the first team... I know preseason means absolutely nothing, but seriously?

They also awarded Megan Walker, Freshman of the year.. One of the problems of having a team this deep at Storrs, I very much doubt Megan will be able to put up the numbers this year to garner that award..

So, let me get this straight: UConn gets 2 players on 1st team, COY, and FOY, AND folks still complain about Uconn getting dissed?

lol

I hope everyone is enjoying this time. It sure won't be like this in 15 years. Probably not 10.

 

[nwhoopfan]

What I do is project then on another team, Kia Nurse could do for Oregon what Sabrina Ionescu did for example.

4 triple doubles in a season?

 

[nwhoopfan]

I don't know exactly where I'd put her, but Monique Billings has to be one of the top 20 players in the country.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

Any list without Gabby on the 1st team is trash to me. She might be Player of the Year.

 

[triaddukefan]

I don't know exactly where I'd put her, but Monique Billings has to be one of the top 20 players in the country.

The lack of respect she gets on a national level is baffling. If I remember correctly she didn't even get a vote for the AP all american team last season.

 

[SCGamecock]

Second team, huh? South Carolina's Wilson is probably already apprehensive about meeting Sophie again on Jan. 7th.

LOL

I'm sure A'ja Wilson is trembling in her boots at the mere thought of the great Sophie Cunningham.

 

[CocoHusky]

Coco: I know these are your picks due to another reply, but I just want to clarify:
- Are these rankings what you think they should be?
or
- What you think would be named?

I have a feeling it's the first but you so often see prognosticators differentiate between who will win and who should win that I wanted to make sure.

And, to answer a possible question, I am thinking about the placement of Kelsey Mitchell.

Thanks for the clarification.

These are what I think they should be with a couple caveats. I did it by position actually played and covered all positions. Also did not include players that are not eligible to play this coming season -like Turner & Shepard who appeal is still pending. There are three names on my list that very few people would recognize Megan Gustafson (Iowa) , Kaylee Jensen (OKst) & Michelle Nwokedi (Penn). These girls are putting in work and getting no recognition. @triaddukefan I feel you on Monique Billings but I would take any of these three before Billings.

I'm not a big fan of Kelsey Mitchell style of play (or her coach) (or her father/coach) but she not going to suddenly fall off the First Team AA list after two straight years of being on the list.

 

[Dillon77]

These are what I think they should be with a couple caveats. I did it by position actually played and covered all positions. Also did not include players that are not eligible to play this coming season -like Turner & Shepard who appeal is still pending. There are three names on my list that very few people would recognize Megan Gustafson (Iowa) , Kaylee Jensen (OKst) & Michelle Nwokedi (Penn). These girls are putting in work and getting no recognition. @triaddukefan I feel you on Monique Billings but I would take any of these three before Billings.

I'm not a big fan of Kelsey Mitchell style of play (or her coach) (or her father/coach) but she not going to suddenly fall off the First Team AA list after two straight years of being on the list.

Thanks. Totally get it in regards to injuries and eligibility, as well as all positions. With Turner injured and Shepard in eligibility purgatory, it's interesting to not see -- but understandable -- an Irish on one of the four teams. Once the season starts, it will be also be interesting to see which of the Irish step up (or have their shooting arms fall off in the process) to fill scoring and leadership voids among Mabrey, Ogunbowale, Thompson or Young. If Shepard's appeal is turned down, I think we'll see a lot of Young on the floor going full tilt...

Thanks for the list...makes for some good thinking prior to the season (as interesting as they are, recruiting updates are not games!)

 

[SCspur]

Second team, huh? South Carolina's Wilson is probably already apprehensive about meeting Sophie again on Jan. 7th.

SC's not apprehensive about facing NO ONE!! We are the defending champs not to mention 4 time SEC regular season and 3 time tourney champs!! Let's just see if you have this same energy when SC curb stomps Mizzou in the fake Columbia Jan. 5th

 

[CocoHusky]

SC's not apprehensive about facing NO ONE!! We are the defending champs not to mention 4 time SEC regular season and 3 time tourney champs!! Let's just see if you have this same energy when SC curb stomps Mizzou in the fake Columbia Jan. 5th

 

[YellwJcket999]

I st Team
G: Kelsey Mitchell
G: Katie Lou Samuelson
SF: Napheesa Collier
PF: A’ja Wilson
C: Kalani Brown
2nd Team
G: Lexie Brown
G: Asia Durr
SF: Gabby Williams
PF: Azura Stevens
C: Kristine Anigwe
3rd Team:
G: Jordin Canada
G: Kia Nurse
SF: Shakayla Thomas
PF: Megan Gustafson
C: Mercedes Russell
4th Team
G: Sabrina Ionescu
G: Brooke McCarty
SF: Jamie Nared
PF: Michelle Nwokedi
C: Kaylee Jensen

Pretty solid picks Coco. How dare I criticize a list without putting up one of my own. I believe that's the standard or at least it should be.
It's difficult call as there is a lot of talent out there.


1st/1st' Team
G: Jordan Canada, Kia Nurse, Kelsey Mitchell
G: Arike Ogunbowale, Asia Durr
SF: Napheesa Collier, Katie Lou Samuelson (she is not a guard), Gabby Williams
PF: A’ja Wilson, (Azura Stevens), Katie Lou Samuelson
C: Mercedes Russell, Monique Billings

Comments:
J.Canada is the #1 point guard in America. Her game is very similar to M.Jefferson. She can flat out run the point.
An Olympian, National team starter, gold medal winning point guard can't make their list? 1st/2nd/3rd team?

The National Defensive Player of the Year, Late Season NPOY watchlist member, a player averaging over 20ppg in the tournament and she can't get a 1st team "pre-season" nod? (or an invite from TeamUSA?)

The talent at the point guard position is extremely deep. Between Canada, Nurse and Mitchell you have a MoJeff clone, a Kelsey Plum clone and a great all around guard (great size, great outside shot, a poised experienced floor general who has been tested on the biggest stages).

At the shooting guard position there is nothing between Arike and Durr. Outstanding scorers, inside, outside and off the bounce. KLS is not a 2-guard. She can't run with Durr or Ogunbowale.

At small forward you have 3 of the Core 4. Pick your poison. These 3 can carry you at least to the FF if not all the way. They are all returning 1st team AA's.
Power forward is KLS' position.

There is a gap between 1st/1st' Team and everyone else. I believe that for the most part the first and second team are damn near interchangeable.

3rd Team
G: Brooke McCarty, Tyasha Harris, Lexie Brown
G: Sabrina Ionescu, Chennedy Carter, Ariel Atkins
SF: Victoria Vivians, Jamie Nared, B.McPhee
PF: Myisha Hines-Allen, Shak Thomas
C: Kristine Anigwe, Kalani Brown

Chennedy Carter = National Freshman of the Year
A'ja Wilson = National Player of the Year. [Only because she doesn't have 4 teammates who are competing against each other for the award]

 

[Carnac]

This comes up every year just before the season starts. Pre-season top ten teams. Pre-season All-Americans. If you had 10 different people comprising a list for each, you'd have 10 different lists. Everyone here in the BY could make up their own AA and top 10 pre-season list. I guarantee at least 3 UConn players would be on most of our AA lists. It all comes down to perception.

As we surmised last year (Charlie Cream's way too early top 25), pre-season polls and selections mean absolutely nothing, regardless of who is doing the selecting. Much ado about nothing. The selections loss all credibility with me when Brianna Turner (ND) was on the first team, and she's sitting out the entire season. Using that logic, why didn't they rate Azure Stevens last year? She had a very good year at Duke the season before. They knew she was going to sit out the season too?

 

[Plebe]

My list:
1st team: Katie Lou, Napheesa, Gabby
2nd team: Z, Kia
3rd team: Crystal
4th team: Megan

To this all I can say is, "Hope springs eternal."

 

[Orangutan]

LOL

I'm sure A'ja Wilson is trembling in her boots at the mere thought of the great Sophie Cunningham.

Well, Missouri won the last time they played and Cunningham went for 23 pts, 7 reb, 5 ast and scored the winning bucket. So I don't quite understand the sneering condescension.

 

[Orangutan]

SC's not apprehensive about facing NO ONE!! We are the defending champs not to mention 4 time SEC regular season and 3 time tourney champs!! Let's just see if you have this same energy when SC curb stomps Mizzou in the fake Columbia Jan. 5th

 

[triaddukefan]

Oh snap.. A sniping battle royale has broken out in here. These are my kinda threads..

 

[SVCBeercats]

No love for Kia, Azurá on the third team and Gabbyriffic on the second team, while out for the season Brianna Turner sits smiling on the first team... I know preseason means absolutely nothing, but seriously?

Quite correct. It is very hard to take these folks seriously. Did they just look at a list of players and pick familiar names? Turner on 1st team indeed.

 

[oldude]

All preseason AA teams are a bit of a crap-shoot. The AP is reasonably well respected and they issue a preseason AA team based on the voting of 30+ respected reporters who cover WBB. Here are the AP's preseason and postseason 1st team AA's for last year:

Preseason

A'ja Wilson
Kelsey Mitchell
Nina Davis
Briana Turner
Kelsey Plum

Postseason

A'ja Wilson
Briana Jones
Lou
Pheesa
Kelsey Plum

So the best WBB reporters in the country got 2 out of 5 right.

 

[SCspur]

View attachment 25372

Mississippi State vs. South Carolina - Game Summary - April 2, 2017 - ESPN

Ironically we went 11-0 after that lost.

 

[Fairfield Fan]

I st Team
G: Kelsey Mitchell
G: Katie Lou Samuelson
SF: Napheesa Collier
PF: A’ja Wilson
C: Kalani Brown

2nd Team
G: Lexie Brown
G: Asia Durr
SF: Gabby Williams
PF: Azura Stevens
C: Kristine Anigwe

3rd Team:
G: Jordin Canada
G: Kia Nurse
SF: Shakayla Thomas
PF: Megan Gustafson
C: Mercedes Russell

4th Team
G: Sabrina Ionescu
G: Brooke McCarty
SF: Jamie Nared
PF: Michelle Nwokedi
C: Kaylee Jensen

This looks better. I'm guessing that Ionescu rises further faster. The year's surprise.

 

[CocoHusky]

4 triple doubles in a season?

Pretty solid picks Coco. How dare I criticize a list without putting up one of my own. I believe that's the standard or at least it should be.
It's difficult call as there is a lot of talent out there.


1st/1st' Team
G: Jordan Canada, Kia Nurse, Kelsey Mitchell
G: Arike Ogunbowale, Asia Durr
SF: Napheesa Collier, Katie Lou Samuelson (she is not a guard), Gabby Williams
PF: A’ja Wilson, (Azura Stevens), Katie Lou Samuelson
C: Mercedes Russell, Monique Billings

Comments:
J.Canada is the #1 point guard in America. Her game is very similar to M.Jefferson. She can flat out run the point.
An Olympian, National team starter, gold medal winning point guard can't make their list? 1st/2nd/3rd team?

The National Defensive Player of the Year, Late Season NPOY watchlist member, a player averaging over 20ppg in the tournament and she can't get a 1st team "pre-season" nod? (or an invite from TeamUSA?)

The talent at the point guard position is extremely deep. Between Canada, Nurse and Mitchell you have a MoJeff clone, a Kelsey Plum clone and a great all around guard (great size, great outside shot, a poised experienced floor general who has been tested on the biggest stages).

At the shooting guard position there is nothing between Arike and Durr. Outstanding scorers, inside, outside and off the bounce. KLS is not a 2-guard. She can't run with Durr or Ogunbowale.

At small forward you have 3 of the Core 4. Pick your poison. These 3 can carry you at least to the FF if not all the way. They are all returning 1st team AA's.
Power forward is KLS' position.

There is a gap between 1st/1st' Team and everyone else. I believe that for the most part the first and second team are damn near interchangeable.

3rd Team
G: Brooke McCarty, Tyasha Harris, Lexie Brown
G: Sabrina Ionescu, Chennedy Carter, Ariel Atkins
SF: Victoria Vivians, Jamie Nared, B.McPhee
PF: Myisha Hines-Allen, Shak Thomas
C: Kristine Anigwe, Kalani Brown

Chennedy Carter = National Freshman of the Year
A'ja Wilson = National Player of the Year. [Only because she doesn't have 4 teammates who are competing against each other for the award]

Much agreement with your picks. In the first group would agree with all except Arike Ogunbowale and Billings who I previously wrote about. Arike did not make a Sophomore leap in what ND needed from her most which was the ability to take high quality shots within the ND offensive. I'm not even sure she will be the best Guard on ND next year because Jackie Young seems to have that mastered and is a superior defender to Arike. Within the ACC recall that Arike did not make All-ACC team last year and I doubt that she will this year either.
Not as high on Jordan Canada as you are & she is no Jefferson clone. Jordin shoot .434 last year MoJeff's finished her career with a shooting percentage of .550.
Not nearly ready to go there with Mercedes. For 4 years I waited patiently for the "Wait till she gets healthy mantra". I am still waiting for her to impact a meaningful game or even better yet, help her team not lose to another unranked team. Kalani Brown on the other hand had one of the most dominating 2nd half of a season I have ever seen last year.
Tyasha Harris was an incredible steadying influence for SC last year as a Freshmen but she did not shoot well enough (.42) or score enough (5.6 PPG) to be in consideration for AA. McPhee & Atkins should not be in this conversation either-nice players, but no.
Myisha Hines-Allen of 2015-16 put up AA numbers, Myisha Hines-Allen of 2016-17 fell off badly-as in almost every statistically category imaginable.
Victoria Vivians shot .371 last year and .281 on three point attempts that is right up there with Diamond Deshields and GT Kaela Davis. Vivians is not an AA.
I agree that Chennedy Carter will be National Freshmen of the year, TA&M will have plenty of shots available for her.
Wilson might win NPOY but it will be close because everything (good and bad) will fall on her very capable shoulders. All that it would take for A'ja not to win is a major slip up like SC losing to Duke & TN again or not being a #1 seed going into the tournament. Gabby will be lurking and a few high profile games like she had against ND or head to head with A'Ja could put her over the top.

 

[SCGamecock]

Well, Missouri won the last time they played and Cunningham went for 23 pts, 7 reb, 5 ast and scored the winning bucket. So I don't quite understand the sneering condescension.

Because A'ja could care less about Missouri when she's won the SEC every year she's been in college.. won the SEC player of the year twice already and has the chance to be the ONLY player to win it 3 times.. won a national championship (going undefeated AFTER losing to Missouri), and was ALSO named the MOP of the final four...

And then today received her first of what will probably be several preseason player of the year honors... so yeah, I doubt she's thinking about Cunningham until the Missouri game comes. Bigger fish.

And if you REALLY want to break it down, she wasn't matched up with Cunningham in that game anyway.. it was Davis and Gray... but I HIGHLY doubt they're worrying about Cunningham either since they're too busy making the WNBA all rookie team and winning Rookie of the Year.

Did that help?

 

[Orangutan]

Much agreement with your picks. In the first group would agree with all except Arike Ogunbowale and Billings who I previously wrote about. Arike did not make a Sophomore leap in what ND needed from her most which was the ability to take high quality shots within the ND offensive. I'm not even sure she will be the best Guard on ND next year because Jackie Young seems to have that mastered and is a superior defender to Arike. Within the ACC recall that Arike did not make All-ACC team last year and I doubt that she will this year either.

I feel pretty strongly that Arike will be a top-10 All-American, especially if Shepard is not eligible to play. She is going to score a whole lot of points in what I assume will be an uptempo run-and-gun offense without Turner.

ND gets a lot of media attention. If the Irish do well without Turner, the media are going to pick a hero to lavish praise upon. I suspect it will be Arike as she will likely average 20+.

Jackie has huge potential but she was timid last year. She has yet to show that she can be a go-to player like Mabrey and Arike are at times.

 

[CocoHusky]

I feel pretty strongly that Arike will be a top-10 All-American, especially if Shepard is not eligible to play. She is going to score a whole lot of points in what I assume will be an uptempo run-and-gun offense without Turner.

ND gets a lot of media attention. If the Irish do well without Turner, the media are going to pick a hero to lavish praise upon. I suspect it will be Arike as she will likely average 20+.
Jackie has huge potential but she was timid last year. She has yet to show that she can be a go-to player like Mabrey and Arike are at times.

You may be perfectly right for all the wrong reasons. Don't think a ND team based around Arike being the main cog is the best thing for ND. Would hate to see Young overlooked in favor of Arike or Mabrey because I believe she is more talented. Not sure ND has enough horses to go "up tempo". If you go uptempo this year what do you do when Turner and Shepard come back? I'm a UCONN fan not necessarily in it for what's best for ND.

 

[Dillon77]

I feel pretty strongly that Arike will be a top-10 All-American, especially if Shepard is not eligible to play. She is going to score a whole lot of points in what I assume will be an uptempo run-and-gun offense without Turner.

ND gets a lot of media attention. If the Irish do well without Turner, the media are going to pick a hero to lavish praise upon. I suspect it will be Arike as she will likely average 20+.

Jackie has huge potential but she was timid last year. She has yet to show that she can be a go-to player like Mabrey and Arike are at times.

I was studying the ND stats from the last two years to write a reply to Coco when Orangutan weighed in. Interestingly, I can see both points, but ultimately agree with Orangutan on what will happen if Shepard is not available. However, I ultimately have a different take on a key player.

Arike hoisted up the most shots (484) but was second in FGs made (after Turner, who was taking much closer shots). Her overall field goal percentage and 3-pt percentage were just about the same (45%), which means she shot better from distance.

However, she's kind of the wild card in ND's spread offense and MM encourages her to attack. However, I think MM would like to see her do it more in sync with the flow of passes.

But given no Turner, and possibly/probably no Shepard, ND will need to look to it's guards to score most of its points. Thus, Arike will shoot first and wait to be told to rein it in later. Not saying that's the best course of action, but with no Turner or Shepard, it might be the way MM chooses to go. Like Orangutan, I think Jackie Young deferred to her elders (and Boley) too much last year, but I think she'll come out of that shell this year, particularly if Shepard does not play.

Thus, you could see big numbers from Arike and/or Jackie Young, who is very talented both as an athlete and a scorer.

But for me, the glue player for this team is Mabrey. Marina can hoist it when she has too and/or feels it, but she also gets the offense (it seems to be an instinctive thing for Mabreys). And I noticed her speaking more and more in the dead-ball team huddles as the season went on. Plus, she wanted the ball when the game was on the line in tight road contests and is the designated late-game free-throw shooter. Note I didn't say most talented or best scorer, but perhaps the most valuable to the team.

And when Turner and Shepard come back the following year, the "take charge" aspect will come in handy when making sure the whole offense is run, possibly with a rookie pg (Jordan Nixon) at the controls.

That said, it's a good situation to be discussing which of three fine players will rise to the top. Only hope Shepard will on court to join them!

 

[Charliebball]

Well, Missouri won the last time they played and Cunningham went for 23 pts, 7 reb, 5 ast and scored the winning bucket. So I don't quite understand the sneering condescension.

she's a really fun player to watch, can take over a game but once in a while she goes overboard and makes a general mess of things..........definitely all conference but not sure about an All American..............17.5 ppg, 5.3 rebounds, about 3.3 assists a game but more turnovers then assists........and short shorts like the 1967 Knicks.............

 

[CocoHusky]

@Orangutan & @Dillon77 let's level set, who do you think starts for ND assuming Shepard's is not eligible?
I was thinking Mabrey, Arike and Young and Westbeld are locks and completely forgot about Lil Thompson.

 

[CocoHusky]

she's a really fun player to watch, can take over a game but once in a while she goes overboard and makes a general mess of things.....definitely all conference but not sure about an All American....17.5 ppg, 5.3 rebounds, about 3.3 assists a game but more turnovers then assists...and short shorts like the 1967 Knicks...

On her I'm ok with the short shorts.

 

[SCspur]

Much agreement with your picks. In the first group would agree with all except Arike Ogunbowale and Billings who I previously wrote about. Arike did not make a Sophomore leap in what ND needed from her most which was the ability to take high quality shots within the ND offensive. I'm not even sure she will be the best Guard on ND next year because Jackie Young seems to have that mastered and is a superior defender to Arike. Within the ACC recall that Arike did not make All-ACC team last year and I doubt that she will this year either.
Not as high on Jordan Canada as you are & she is no Jefferson clone. Jordin shoot .434 last year MoJeff's finished her career with a shooting percentage of .550.
Not nearly ready to go there with Mercedes. For 4 years I waited patiently for the "Wait till she gets healthy mantra". I am still waiting for her to impact a meaningful game or even better yet, help her team not lose to another unranked team. Kalani Brown on the other hand had one of the most dominating 2nd half of a season I have ever seen last year.
Tyasha Harris was an incredible steadying influence for SC last year as a Freshmen but she did not shoot well enough (.42) or score enough (5.6 PPG) to be in consideration for AA. McPhee & Atkins should not be in this conversation either-nice players, but no.
Myisha Hines-Allen of 2015-16 put up AA numbers, Myisha Hines-Allen of 2016-17 fell off badly-as in almost every statistically category imaginable.
Victoria Vivians shot .371 last year and .281 on three point attempts that is right up there with Diamond Deshields and GT Kaela Davis. Vivians is not an AA.
I agree that Chennedy Carter will be National Freshmen of the year, TA&M will have plenty of shots available for her.
Wilson might win NPOY but it will be close because everything (good and bad) will fall on her very capable shoulders. All that it would take for A'ja not to win is a major slip up like SC losing to Duke & TN again or not being a #1 seed going into the tournament. Gabby will be lurking and a few high profile games like she had against ND or head to head with A'Ja could put her over the top.

Harris wasn't up for AA consideration last season because she was mainly a contributor for SC last season. Her 5.6 ppg and 3.2 apg (4.5 in postseason) was very solid for a freshman point guard leading her team to a National Title. This past summer she also excelled for the U19 team averaging 9 points and 5.7 assists per game as well being named to the Tourney team and setting a new U19 record with 40 assists in seven games.

You can definitely expect Harris to have a breakout year. She'll be relied on a lot this year and would be looked upon for leadership as well as scoring. having her on the perimeter will help take the weight off of Wilson's shoulder. I'm sooo ready for the season to start.