Creighton Post Game Thread

[Hurlees4hed]

Cannot fathom the amount of handwringing going on about Alex Karaban of all players.

Say what you will about him as a player - star or role player - his achievements cannot be denied.

He has a highly decorated resume... among the best in the history of college basketball, let alone the UConn program. He should always have a place here. He chose UConn time and time again. And it's worked out pretty well. Winningest player in program history counts for an awful lot, even if he wasn't "the guy" during the biggest moments. Deserves to be celebrated.

He is not the problem with this team.

 

[navery12]

Define accomplishments? If they are longevity based, that is a very different category.

 

[UCTitleTown]

No its not. If we talking UConn greats, longevity should be a feather in the cap. Especially when as you so eloquently stated, he couldve left and been drafted. He didn't stay because he sucked lmao.

People use this same argument against LeBron, and its dumb.

Like Craig Carton on WFAN. Calls LeBron a compiler. LeBron is a Top 5, Top 10 All-Time player at worst.🙄

 

[KingAG]

I disagree with RuffRuff like I normally do, lolz. AK is close to top 20. I feel like i'm being a bit generous but it's what feels right considering the incredible team accomplishments since he's been here and how many games AK has started here.

I consider Rip, Emeka, Ray, Kemba, Shabazz, Donyell, Caron, Gordon, Clingan, Hasheem, Tristen, El-Amin, Sanogo, Jackson, Hawkins, Adrien, AJ Price, Rudy Gay, Cam, Castle, Smitty, Boat, Lamb, Burrell better than him.

Then there's Josh Boone, Marcus Williams, Cliff Robinson, Doron Sheffer, Charlie V, DeAndre Daniels. I'm giving the nod to AK over them and we know how good all those dudes were.

This is a reasonable take. I couldn't argue confidently against that list. I can just confidently say he deserves to be mentioned. I wasnt there to watch Chris Smith and Scott Burrell so thats why they werent on my personal list. But they are definitely legends

 

[KingAG]

Reasonable argument. Great story, lot's of longevity numbers. Again, he had the privelage of playing on 2 teams that won 12 additional games.

If I'm making rosters of all time UConn greats to win, I'm not putting him high on the list.

Those teams had the privilege of having Alex Karaban

 

[RuffRuff]

I disagree with RuffRuff like I normally do, lolz. AK is close to top 20. I feel like i'm being a bit generous but it's what feels right considering the incredible team accomplishments since he's been here and how many games AK has started here.

I consider Rip, Emeka, Ray, Kemba, Shabazz, Donyell, Caron, Gordon, Clingan, Hasheem, Tristen, El-Amin, Sanogo, Jackson, Hawkins, Adrien, AJ Price, Rudy Gay, Cam, Castle, Smitty, Boat, Lamb, Burrell better than him.

Then there's Josh Boone, Marcus Williams, Cliff Robinson, Doron Sheffer, Charlie V, DeAndre Daniels. I'm giving the nod to AK over them and we know how good all those dudes were.

1. Rip (Hamilton)
2. Emeka (Okafor)
3. Ray (Allen)
4. Kemba (Walker)
5. Shabazz (Napier)
6. Donyell (Marshall)
7. Caron (Butler)
8. Gordon (Hayward)
9. Donovan Clingan
10. Hasheem (Thabeet)
11. Tristen (Newton)
12. Khalid El-Amin
13. Adama Sanogo
14. Andre Jackson
15. Jordan Hawkins
16. Jeff Adrien
17. A.J. Price
18. Rudy Gay
19. Cam (Spencer)
20. Stephon Castle
21. Smitty (Smith)
22. Ryan Boatright
23. Jeremy Lamb
24. Scott Burrell

Group 2​

1. Josh Boone
2. Marcus Williams
3. Cliff Robinson
4. Doron Sheffer
5. Charlie Villanueva
6. DeAndre Daniels

Pretty good list. I can probably find 5-10 more. 2009 team? Oriakhi?

 

[RuffRuff]

Those teams had the privilege of having Alex Karaban

Put Charlie Villanueva on those teams, better or worse? Who is the "greater" Uconn player?

 

[Marat]

Cannot fathom the amount of handwringing going on about Alex Karaban of all players.

Say what you will about him as a player - star or role player - his achievements cannot be denied.

He has a highly decorated resume... among the best in the history of college basketball, let alone the UConn program. He should always have a place here. He chose UConn time and time again. And it's worked out pretty well. Winningest player in program history counts for an awful lot, even if he wasn't "the guy" during the biggest moments. Deserves to be celebrated.

He is not the problem with this team.

Thank you.

 

[RuffRuff]

Like Craig Carton on WFAN. Calls LeBron a compiler. LeBron is a Top 5, Top 10 All-Time player at worst.🙄

Talk about apples to oranges.

 

[KingAG]

Put Charlie Villanueva on those teams, better or worse? Who the "greater" Uconn player?

Are you aware of the teams Charlie Villanueva played on? Lmao.

2004?

Taliek Brown
Ben Gordon
Charlie V
Josh Boone
Emeka Okafor
Hilton Armstong
Rashad Anderson
Denham Brown
(F) Marcus Williams

Stacked. Maybe better than 24


And who knows. You love fantasy land bs.

If you swap AK and Charlie V, and put AK on 2004 and Charlie on 2024 they both still win championships.

 

[Mr. French]

I think we can all agree: AK, Solo, Ross and Hurley all suck.

 

[boog204]

He's a fabulous long time contributor to the program. For that he should be applauded.

He's just not even close to an all time great. All time greats do something more than being a 5th man. They win BIG POY's, get drafted highly and go onto great NBA careers, are AA's. They're usually at least the best 1-2 players on great UConn teams. If he takes this team on a run, I might rethink things. If they flame out early, he's firmly a great role player.

What? You asked who he was behind on the 23 list and missed Adama.

Are Ricky, Taliek, KFree, Jake, Rashad, etc”all time greats”? None of them had any personal accolades. Yet they are revered here.

 

[CTBasketball]

Win, lose. Stronger wing defender that can’t score? That puts it all on Braylon and Silas and our offense is already stagnant enough.

I get it but there’s nothing on that bench that changes the dynamic of this lineup enough to make that change. You’ll live or die with hoping Solo makes shots because the options just don’t work, at least for me but who am I.

Ross is an energy guy, I get there’s a huge love affair for him here but that’s who he is. Perfect for coming off the bench because he rarely plays 2 good games in a row. Stew has been MIA, for him I think it’s an extremely short rope suddenly that will take away any shot of rhythm.

I don’t know, watched it closely last night. We’re not very athletic, slow on the perimeter and have very few options who can take anyone off the dribble. McDermotts plan worked amazingly. Just take the ball to the hoop, there’s no rim protection and at least we wil get them in foul trouble. You will see it the rest of the year in BE play and beyond.

Might want to practice a little zone to take people out of their plan on occasion? Maybe even throw Reibe in with Reed to throw a little advantage down the other end.

Who knows? I do know watching them I will be absolutely thrilled to get to the 2nd weekend with this team!

I get what you’re saying. I’m not an efficiency metric guy, but all year our 5-best lineups, offensively, have featured Reed, Karaban, Stewart or Ross, Silas, and one of Ball or Mullins. Not both SG’s.

I think offensive rebounding improves with a longer 3. Stew does the little things. Ross is starting to offensively. And if Ross can shoot 30% from 3 while Ball is at 30% from 3, I’ll take Ross all day because of his intangibles.

 

[superjohn]

1. Rip (Hamilton)
2. Emeka (Okafor)
3. Ray (Allen)
4. Kemba (Walker)
5. Shabazz (Napier)
6. Donyell (Marshall)
7. Caron (Butler)
8. Gordon (Hayward)
9. Donovan Clingan
10. Hasheem (Thabeet)
11. Tristen (Newton)
12. Khalid El-Amin
13. Adama Sanogo
14. Andre Jackson
15. Jordan Hawkins
16. Jeff Adrien
17. A.J. Price
18. Rudy Gay
19. Cam (Spencer)
20. Stephon Castle
21. Smitty (Smith)
22. Ryan Boatright
23. Jeremy Lamb
24. Scott Burrell

Group 2​

1. Josh Boone
2. Marcus Williams
3. Cliff Robinson
4. Doron Sheffer
5. Charlie Villanueva
6. DeAndre Daniels

Pretty good list. I can probably find 5-10 more. 2009 team? Oriakhi?

I wasn't doing it in order but the order isn't far off. I would bump Smitty and Burrell up a little. How did Gordon Hayward get on there?

 

[Ewekon]

Foul shooting, poor D, extended cold shooting from field. This is not a #5 team.

Not anymore it isn't.

 

[FightOnCT]

Scheirman is doing well with the C's. Kalkbrenner has also done well, speaking of Creighton guys in a similar draft spot. Had Karaban been drafted around either of them, I would be surprised if he was thriving like they are. He made the right decision IMO.

I'm curious what you mean about rethinking recruiting strategy. Can you elaborate? I am concerned that Hurley's loyalty to Stewart and Ross will prevent him from recruiting over them next year, which means we will probably take a step back in our wing talent.

He would recruit over both of them. It’s the returning starters that he won’t poke.

 

[John]

1. Rip (Hamilton)
2. Emeka (Okafor)
3. Ray (Allen)
4. Kemba (Walker)
5. Shabazz (Napier)
6. Donyell (Marshall)
7. Caron (Butler)
8. Gordon (Hayward)
9. Donovan Clingan
10. Hasheem (Thabeet)
11. Tristen (Newton)
12. Khalid El-Amin
13. Adama Sanogo
14. Andre Jackson
15. Jordan Hawkins
16. Jeff Adrien
17. A.J. Price
18. Rudy Gay
19. Cam (Spencer)
20. Stephon Castle
21. Smitty (Smith)
22. Ryan Boatright
23. Jeremy Lamb
24. Scott Burrell

Group 2​

1. Josh Boone
2. Marcus Williams
3. Cliff Robinson
4. Doron Sheffer
5. Charlie Villanueva
6. DeAndre Daniels

Pretty good list. I can probably find 5-10 more. 2009 team? Oriakhi?

food for discussion: where would you/we put players like Jalen Adams or Earl Kelly, individual talents at low points in program history? Seems like these lists are always weighted towards high points in the program to forget about those types of guys.

 

[RashadRay11]

asked who he was behind on the 23 list and missed Adama.

You need to take a breather Ruff. You’ve been at it for 14 hours now

 

[RuffRuff]

He would recruit over both of them. It’s the returning starters that he won’t poke.

The issue these last two years, especially last, is that Hurley didn't recruit over his Fab 5.

At this point, he's yanking Solo out for defense in big games. You got to at least entertain finding an upgrade in the portal there. Dealing with another year of him getting blown by, now with inconsistent reckless shooting, isn't something you lock in on.

 

[KingAG]

1. Rip (Hamilton)
2. Emeka (Okafor)
3. Ray (Allen)
4. Kemba (Walker)
5. Shabazz (Napier)
6. Donyell (Marshall)
7. Caron (Butler)
8. Gordon (Hayward)
9. Donovan Clingan
10. Hasheem (Thabeet)
11. Tristen (Newton)
12. Khalid El-Amin
13. Adama Sanogo
14. Andre Jackson
15. Jordan Hawkins
16. Jeff Adrien
17. A.J. Price
18. Rudy Gay
19. Cam (Spencer)
20. Stephon Castle
21. Smitty (Smith)
22. Ryan Boatright
23. Jeremy Lamb
24. Scott Burrell

Group 2​

1. Josh Boone
2. Marcus Williams
3. Cliff Robinson
4. Doron Sheffer
5. Charlie Villanueva
6. DeAndre Daniels

Pretty good list. I can probably find 5-10 more. 2009 team? Oriakhi?

Missed the Gordon Hayward era at UConn

The end of group 1 and alll of group 2 is debatable.

Alex Oriakhi is laughable

 

[Hey Adrien!]

He would recruit over both of them. It’s the returning starters that he won’t poke.

I agree. I would imagine/hope that Hurley and co. will do everything they can to keep Silas, Solo and Reibe, as they will make up a heck of a foundation to build on next year.

I love the physicality and defensive versatility County and Landrew will bring next season and I think the backcourt has more defensive potential next year than this year.

I'd expect the team to hit the portal hard for a Mullins replacement at the 3. Would love a defensive stud who can also distribute a bit, like a Castle reincarnation.

 

[KingAG]

food for discussion: where would you/we put players like Jalen Adams or Earl Kelly, individual talents at low points in program history? Seems like these lists are always weighted towards high points in the program to forget about those types of guys.

Christian Vital is more deserving than both of them imo

 

[Stew Crew]

1. Rip (Hamilton)
2. Emeka (Okafor)
3. Ray (Allen)
4. Kemba (Walker)
5. Shabazz (Napier)
6. Donyell (Marshall)
7. Caron (Butler)
8. Gordon (Hayward)
9. Donovan Clingan
10. Hasheem (Thabeet)

Interesting that a Butler player made your top 10.

 

[DW1361]

Stewart does nothing out there, Ross at least is active and plays hard

Seriously, you thought I was serious?

 

[Palatine]

When things aren’t working, Hurley’s answer is double down and work harder, rather than work smarter. He’s allergic to zones because it’s not the tough guy “we will out work you” identity he wants.

Been saying this for a while. There is not good team chemistry. We generally have 3 guys on the floor that would be scoring option 1A or 1B on most teams and a fourth that thinks he should be option 1A once the ball touches his hands. You have guys contending to be the scoring alpha. I’ll sum it up this way - everybody is looking for their own shot not the team’s shot. When they do go on spurts, you’ll notice how fast and unselfish the ball moves compared to when they are going through the motions thinking about me in relation to what’s happening on the floor.

This is very similar to Calhoun. When things went poorly he usually blamed intensity. He also rarely used a zone.

Silas is the key to everything. As long as he is controlling the tempo we are dangerous. Last night we came out firing quick, contested threes. Solo looked like he wanted to get off 40 shots in the first half. Hurley deserves credit for taking him out after a couple of minutes and putting in Steward. Unfortunately, Stew is in a funk and it didn't work.

Defensively, if you watch Hurley teams. He wants to take away the three point line. However -sometimes- when he does this the defense gets extended and overplays 25 feet from the basket. When that happens, especially if is a weaker defender on the overplay, it makes it easy for opponents to get by the first man, the middle of the court is open, and they have a free run to the layup line. This this was especially bad in the first half tonight.

Being a little softer when the the ball is so far out gives our defender a little more cushion and time to stop the penetration. We sort of made that adjustment in the second half, but by then, they were very confident and went off from three.

The question at this point is not how do we become better one-on-one defenders. It is how does Hurley help our poorest defenders, so they are not put in a position to be exploited.

 

[FightOnCT]

Lot's of loyalty is part of the issue, holding onto to carryovers, over-indexing on shooters, fully lacking the type of athletes that won B2B. Thinking he could teach defense. This current collection, beyond being rather undynamic, is a bit of a boring brand of basketball. Jump shooting half court teams that rely on positional defense, with low verticality, aren't must watch TV. They don't play very smart either. So there is very little ooh's and ah's with this team. Feels like Hurley is moving away from what got him there, holding on to throw backs. Granted they are 24-3, so cannot nit pick too much. It's been a weird year.

Not on a crusade. I can drop this here. I don't even find there to be much of a discussion on this one, feels more like you're vouching for the kid in some way that is hard to understand. I haven't gotten a reasonable argument as to why he's an all time great other than he is.

I don’t think his loyalty this time was a massive issue, most of these issues we see are in hindsight and Ball shooting worse than expected kinda signals that.

What I will agree with you on is the fact that I think Hurley is indexing too much on shooters when the 2024 team had only Spencer and Karaban as your main snipers. Newton (32%) and Castle (28%) were subpar from the arc, but provided shot creation and/or athleticism. We got our creator (SDJ should start driving more with purpose) but next year is the time to throw in our “Castle”

 

[uconngb]

I'm going to give Ruff the benefit of the doubt because I've been in his shoes before.

All I'll say is this. CT is a small state and it's not that difficult to know people that are close to the program and access to information others don't have. Personally, I have had relatives that work in the Athletic Development office or have personal/professional relationships with current/former coaches and players. Two of my close friend's kids have been student managers for both Calhoun and Hurley. Another of my friend's kids was roommates with a past player. My kid goes there and has had friends date players.

For example, I know first hand about certain players (who went onto the NBA) that appear like model guys on the outside and are horrible to deal with on charitable events. I also know of another player (also spent time in the NBA) who drove from the midwest to a Calhoun charity game because he didn't want to charge the charity for a flight.

I'm sure there are times where people might make up crap, but there's also times you know things from people you trust and can back it up with fact and you just can't share the details.

That’s fine but just choose your words then. When you say you have “first hand” knowledge, that’s from the player himself. Which i’d be willing to wager quite a bit he does not have.

 

[amishboy]

He's upset people love AK. IM flabbergasted

No, I read this as his being upset that people regard him as the next coming of Larry Bird.

AK is a fine basketball player, but his strength is his versatility; he’s one of those guys who can do many things well, but none great (and some not very well), so he’s a complementary player, rather than a prospective POY candidate.

We would've had a three-peat (or three in four years) only if Reed had been DC, if Solo had been Cam, if Liam or Braylon had been Steph, etc., and if AK had again been able to complement & support them.

In sum, let’s appreciate him for what he does do, rather than dream that he’s “the guy.”

 

[uconngb]

How many players have played at the University of CT? If he's arguably top 20 he's one of the greatest ever. Simple math.

He can end this season:

Winningest payer ever
Most 3 pointers made
Top 10 in scoring

Framing that career the way you are is a dig imo

You just made SJ’s argument for him. You and everyone on this board knows that in this day and age if you are setting records for CUMULATIVE statistics, you’re not a great player. Because of if you’re that good, you wouldn’t have stayed around for 4 years. So that’s just not a great argument.

I love Alex for who he is and what he’s contributed, but I do not consider him an “all time great” when I see who’s up there in the ring of honor.

 

[RuffRuff]

I don’t think his loyalty this time was a massive issue, most of these issues we see are in hindsight and Ball shooting worse than expected kinda signals that.

What I will agree with you on is the fact that I think Hurley is indexing too much on shooters when the 2024 team had only Spencer and Karaban as your main snipers. Newton (32%) and Castle (28%) were subpar from the arc, but provided shot creation and/or athleticism. We got our creator (SDJ should start driving more with purpose) but next year is the time to throw in our “Castle”

For instance, not sure what Hurley was thinking targeting a kid like Mullins to put next to AK & Solo. We needed a different profile, or needed to move off Ball. I personally think Ball at the two is so far off script it hurts this team because he's a chronic work around given his defense and lack thereof anything outside of shooting. Or we needed an Ajx/Castle caliber player at the 3.

Hurley's midas touch on recruiting/roster building seems to be off a bit of late. I continue to think he's hanging on too much in spots, the Fab 5 being headcount we could have used differently.