Coombs's Waiver Petition Denied

UConnCat

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The WNBA part is kind of moot given 1) Coombs is not eligible for the WNBA yet and 2) neither Greene nor Faris have made teams lately...

Not sure I would count either Greene or Faris as adept passers either. Greene was essentially 1:1 A:TO ratio and Faris was around 2:1. Coombs 37 assists to 29 turnovers puts her on par with Greene’s career A:TO average. Coombs’ fg% wasn’t great, I’ll concede that, but then again neither was the sample size (19/68 or about 27.9%). If they continued to develop her shooting form and she wasn’t yanked for making the same mistakes every starter made she might have eventually flourished. Who knows. My point being that not everyone on the court needs to be a sharpshooting bucket getter. Some are meant to provide defense, hustle, and the occasional offense—whether that be a good pass, pick, or shot.

Faris wasn’t an adept passer? She recorded 145 assists as a sophomore and 165 assists as a junior which is 8th all-time for a single season at UConn. You should check out Faris’s Bio page. She was a very good player. Again, Coombs doesn’t belong in the same conversation with Kelly.
 
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Living in Georgia I read some about Coombs in high school since I live here and heard she had an unusual shot but that she was quick and athletic. Recruiting is far from an exact science and I get even more skeptical about rankings each year as I've seen players with very good rankings in high school look very average or mediocre in college and that's been among several of the top programs. I know coaching, fit, player attitude, dedication and injuries can play a part where even a talented athlete would not look as good as advertised but my gut tells me most of these rankings come off of opinions of peer coaches in major, coporat sponsored tournaments. AAU gives the game a great deal of exposure but it has so much influence now over the college game and it shows.
 
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I suggested the following explanation last year. Mikayla checked all the boxes. Great athlete with speed and springs on her feet. Great off the dribble with the ability to attack the basket. Tough defender, good passer and hard worker with a great attitude. If you watch highlight films of her HS days, you will see her make a bunch of 3’s.

I don’t know how many times the UConn coaches watched Mikayla in person, but I would guess it would be no more than 2 and possibly only once. On that night, maybe she didn’t take a lot of outside shots, maybe she made a few or maybe you just chalk it up to a bad shooting night. Certainly, UConn had to recognize Mikayla’s extremely unorthodox shooting stroke. She basically slings the ball from her waist.

In the McD AA game I was extremely high on Mikayla for playing defense and setting up her teammates, 2 things you see very little of in HS all star games. Looking back on that game, Mikayla took few if any shots.

In retrospect, I think Geno and his coaching staff simply missed the fact that Mikayla was a really bad shooter from outside, or perhaps they thought they could coach her up. As I said, she checked all the boxes.
She checked all the boxes. She had a great attitude. She was quick, fast and could jump and defend--but had a bad outside shot---yea, dump her!!
90 percent of what you stated GENO loves in his guards. At 17/18/19 she still is correctable in nearly everything with a great attitude. I doubt it was GENO's choice she leave UConn. After sitting on the long side of the splinters on his bench with health problems and others--SHE choose to leave.
I liked this kid since she first put on a Uniform.
Any person who scores over 90 in attirbutes and personality belongs on Geno's team. Many of Uconn's guards, with few exceptions, hit the 3 regularly as frosh some into the Soph year and drilled them as Jr, Sr's.
Excuse my long winded defense of Coombs--she is much more than those who detract her--can they drill 8 or 10 3's in a game, me neither.
 
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Faris wasn’t an adept passer? She recorded 145 assists as a sophomore and 165 assists as a junior which is 8th all-time for a single season at UConn. You should check out Faris’s Bio page. She was a very good player. Again, Coombs doesn’t belong in the same conversation with Kelly.
Kelly had trouble making 3's until a senior. Kelly had one GREAT game and even Geno commented on her not repeating it. Her greatest asset was ATTITUDE and COACH ABLE. the kinda kid Geno loves.. Coombs belongs in any conversation of UConn--she worked hard, played hard, had health issues, and had the GENO attitudes, positive. If Coombs stayed at Uconn who knows where she'd fit in this conversation. There are former Uconn kids that were true dud's, Coombs wasn't one of them. Let us discuss this in 3 years (I'll be happy to discuss anything in 3 years.)
EDIT---Kelly was suppose to be Uconns defensive answer to Diggins---never happened. In at least one game Diggins (as short as she was) stuffed Kelly a FEW times. Diggins had little trouble scoring on her.
 

CocoHusky

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I'm sorry, but UConn is in bad shape if Coombs would have gotten major PT against good teams. As good as her defense was, it forces UConn to truly play 4 on 5 on offense, since she basically couldn't score anything but layups.
Her defense was not all that good and she only shot 35% on LAYUPS. Her confidence and entire game were shot and she was not going to regain either in the stratosphere that is UCONN WBB.
 

CocoHusky

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Any person who scores over 90 in attributes and personality belongs on Geno's team.
Nah, a score of 90 in attributes doesn't even get you on Geno's radar. 100 in basketball skill & 100 in attributes might. When we can agree that Mikayla fell far short in UCONN required basketball skills hopefully you will see why attributes was not a factor.
 
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oldude

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She checked all the boxes. She had a great attitude. She was quick, fast and could jump and defend--but had a bad outside shot---yea, dump her!!
90 percent of what you stated GENO loves in his guards. At 17/18/19 she still is correctable in nearly everything with a great attitude. I doubt it was GENO's choice she leave UConn. After sitting on the long side of the splinters on his bench with health problems and others--SHE choose to leave.
I liked this kid since she first put on a Uniform.
Any person who scores over 90 in attirbutes and personality belongs on Geno's team. Many of Uconn's guards, with few exceptions, hit the 3 regularly as frosh some into the Soph year and drilled them as Jr, Sr's.
Excuse my long winded defense of Coombs--she is much more than those who detract her--can they drill 8 or 10 3's in a game, me neither.
I like Mikayla a lot, but her shot was so fundamentally flawed that it’s difficult to imagine that she would ever be able to fix it. While she might have been very good at 90% of what she did, the fact that she was such an ineffective shooter undermined UConn’s entire offensive concept of spreading the floor, moving the ball and getting the best shot. Teams could basically back off Mikayla and play 5 on 4.

As you point out, many players at UConn became much better shooters over time: Kelly, Mo, Kia and even Megan last year. But with all of those players the adjustments they had to make were minor: shooting in rhythm, squaring up to the basket, slightly higher release point, etc.

In Mikayla’s case, she basically had to learn how to shoot a basketball all over again. I suspect her funky shooting motion where she slings the ball from her waist was something she developed very early on when she was young and probably had trouble getting the ball up to the hoop. Unfortunately, as she developed as a basketball player either no one ever tried to change her shooting stroke, or she simply resisted the change because she was uncomfortable with anything other than what she knew.

Mikayla has now been shooting the ball with her unique release for 10-12 years. I just don’t think it’s possible for her to engineer a major overhaul of her shooting stroke at this point.
 
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Faris wasn’t an adept passer? She recorded 145 assists as a sophomore and 165 assists as a junior which is 8th all-time for a single season at UConn. You should check out Faris’s Bio page. She was a very good player. Again, Coombs doesn’t belong in the same conversation with Kelly.
No doubt Faris was a good player. I never said she wasn't. I will accept that Faris was a good passer. I was wrong to say she wasn't. But you should check out the season stats for her years at UConn (though 2012-13's full season stats PDF is a dead link; so going through that year would be tedious). A bio page is basically highlights of each season. Of course it doesn't list her turnovers any more than it lists her fouls or missed shots. He junior year was by far her best with a 2.11 A:TO (2012-13's big east stats have her listed with 66a/37to or about 1.78 A:TO), but even Saniya Chong managed a 3.33 A:TO (140a/42to) ratio her senior year. If we're purely going off of number of assists as a measure of how great a passer was, then I guess KLS wasn't very good because she only had 132 her senior (although she did miss a few games/ only played in 34 games and averaged about 3.88 assists per game, so that number probably could have been closer to 150 in the end).

AGAIN, I am merely saying that being an amazing passer and scorer have NOT historically been required for starters or even players getting major minutes in big games. Kelly Faris and Kalana Greene were both great players because they did what they were asked to do: defend, rebound, and play team basketball. I would happily take either one (or both) on any team I'm setting up because I'd know I'm getting hard work and effort from them every minute they're on the floor. I think Coombs could have been a player like that if she was given more opportunities (and also if she didn't have to deal with the deep vein thrombosis essentially robbing her of time to improve her game and conditioning). In big games last year she was either somewhat neutral (didn't help the team based on any stats, but also didn't necessarily hurt them either). If we disagree, I can accept that, but I don't think she'd have been a detriment to this team in big games.
 

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eebmg

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No doubt Faris was a good player. I never said she wasn't. I will accept that Faris was a good passer. I was wrong to say she wasn't. But you should check out the season stats for her years at UConn (though 2012-13's full season stats PDF is a dead link; so going through that year would be tedious). A bio page is basically highlights of each season. Of course it doesn't list her turnovers any more than it lists her fouls or missed shots. He junior year was by far her best with a 2.11 A:TO (2012-13's big east stats have her listed with 66a/37to or about 1.78 A:TO), but even Saniya Chong managed a 3.33 A:TO (140a/42to) ratio her senior year. If we're purely going off of number of assists as a measure of how great a passer was, then I guess KLS wasn't very good because she only had 132 her senior (although she did miss a few games/ only played in 34 games and averaged about 3.88 assists per game, so that number probably could have been closer to 150 in the end).

AGAIN, I am merely saying that being an amazing passer and scorer have NOT historically been required for starters or even players getting major minutes in big games. Kelly Faris and Kalana Greene were both great players because they did what they were asked to do: defend, rebound, and play team basketball. I would happily take either one (or both) on any team I'm setting up because I'd know I'm getting hard work and effort from them every minute they're on the floor. I think Coombs could have been a player like that if she was given more opportunities (and also if she didn't have to deal with the deep vein thrombosis essentially robbing her of time to improve her game and conditioning). In big games last year she was either somewhat neutral (didn't help the team based on any stats, but also didn't necessarily hurt them either). If we disagree, I can accept that, but I don't think she'd have been a detriment to this team in big games.
You must be working on Mikayla's appeal. ;)
 

CL82

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I was thinking of that same team. You don't need everyone to score 15 a night when you can hold opponents in the 50s or lower in most games.
Ha ha true but very much not our persona this season per Geno. We are going to be like an NBA all star game this season. Should be fun to watch.
 

CocoHusky

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No doubt Faris was a good player. I never said she wasn't. I will accept that Faris was a good passer. I was wrong to say she wasn't. But you should check out the season stats for her years at UConn (though 2012-13's full season stats PDF is a dead link; so going through that year would be tedious). A bio page is basically highlights of each season. Of course it doesn't list her turnovers any more than it lists her fouls or missed shots. He junior year was by far her best with a 2.11 A:TO (2012-13's big east stats have her listed with 66a/37to or about 1.78 A:TO), but even Saniya Chong managed a 3.33 A:TO (140a/42to) ratio her senior year. If we're purely going off of number of assists as a measure of how great a passer was, then I guess KLS wasn't very good because she only had 132 her senior (although she did miss a few games/ only played in 34 games and averaged about 3.88 assists per game, so that number probably could have been closer to 150 in the end).

AGAIN, I am merely saying that being an amazing passer and scorer have NOT historically been required for starters or even players getting major minutes in big games. Kelly Faris and Kalana Greene were both great players because they did what they were asked to do: defend, rebound, and play team basketball. I would happily take either one (or both) on any team I'm setting up because I'd know I'm getting hard work and effort from them every minute they're on the floor. I think Coombs could have been a player like that if she was given more opportunities (and also if she didn't have to deal with the deep vein thrombosis essentially robbing her of time to improve her game and conditioning). In big games last year she was either somewhat neutral (didn't help the team based on any stats, but also didn't necessarily hurt them either). If we disagree, I can accept that, but I don't think she'd have been a detriment to this team in big games.
I can't even believe we are having this discussion regarding Mikayla and have dragged Kelly's name into this.
To get meaningful playing time at UCONN Faris had to compete with: Hayes, Doty, Dixon, Hartley, Jefferson, Banks, KML & Greene. Kelly got it done.
To get meaningful minutes in her two season at UCONN Mikayla had to compete with: Molly Bent & AEH-briefly. Mikayla didn't get it done.
 
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I'm no expert on Coombs, but Kalana was more athletic, even post-injury, and other teams did not dare slack off her. Faris was grittier by far and always found ways to contribute, though she was an offensive liability until she developed some confidence in her three-point shot. I was never a Doty fan, but she was twice the shooter Coombs was.
 
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I like Mikayla a lot, but her shot was so fundamentally flawed that it’s difficult to imagine that she would ever be able to fix it. While she might have been very good at 90% of what she did, the fact that she was such an ineffective shooter undermined UConn’s entire offensive concept of spreading the floor, moving the ball and getting the best shot. Teams could basically back off Mikayla and play 5 on 4.

As you point out, many players at UConn became much better shooters over time: Kelly, Mo, Kia and even Megan last year. But with all of those players the adjustments they had to make were minor: shooting in rhythm, squaring up to the basket, slightly higher release point, etc.

In Mikayla’s case, she basically had to learn how to shoot a basketball all over again. I suspect her funky shooting motion where she slings the ball from her waist was something she developed very early on when she was young and probably had trouble getting the ball up to the hoop. Unfortunately, as she developed as a basketball player either no one ever tried to change her shooting stroke, or she simply resisted the change because she was uncomfortable with anything other than what she knew.

Mikayla has now been shooting the ball with her unique release for 10-12 years. I just don’t think it’s possible for her to engineer a major overhaul of her shooting stroke at this point.
I have a long history with kids in the 18 to 30 year range. I'm no expert that's a certainty. But in my less than stellar experience says: Physical traits learned as children are difficult to change but they can be changed depending on the attitude and desire to change is with the young person. So, while Coombs may have a flaw "outside" shot (I " " that because it's not her total shooting). She is young and still malleable.
I guess unless she changes you shall remain correct.
At some level that shot had to work for her OR her upside without shooting was incredible---or she'd never have been on Geno's radar.
Sufficient to say: I liked her at Uconn and wish her well and feel bad she didn't get the waiver. Geno is right give one a waiver --give all. The only fair way and really no real excuse to not give one ---the dam of transfers has broken this won't stop it..
Thanks for the intelligent and positive discussion. I appreciate it.
 
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I'm no expert on Coombs, but Kalana was more athletic, even post-injury, and other teams did not dare slack off her. Faris was grittier by far and always found ways to contribute, though she was an offensive liability until she developed some confidence in her three-point shot. I was never a Doty fan, but she was twice the shooter Coombs was.
You are right. I didn't intend to infer that ALL guards or even many had problems with shots as a Frosh or soph.
You could go through hundreds maybe that were decent from the outside. Nor did I infer that Coombs was a great, good or even decent shooter--her upside was big in many areas--I have issues that she Cannot change her flawed shot. Doty was a streak shooter to a degree. We have seen her drill 3 or 5 in a row in some games then not again in the next. I'm not a fan of Doty or Kelly--that is my own personal bias.
Yet, since she is in Georgia and will never again wear a Uconn uniform again I see no value dragging up her shooting. It will either change or not. Who really cares at this point??.
 
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I can't even believe we are having this discussion regarding Mikayla and have dragged Kelly's name into this.
To get meaningful playing time at UCONN Faris had to compete with: Hayes, Doty, Dixon, Hartley, Jefferson, Banks, KML & Greene. Kelly got it done.
To get meaningful minutes in her two season at UCONN Mikayla had to compete with: Molly Bent & AEH-briefly. Mikayla didn't get it done.
And had health issues along the way as minimal as that way was. She was a good kid with an good attitude--whether she could ever become a great Uconn kid is moot she's gone.
 
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Nah, a score of 90 in attributes doesn't even get you on Geno's radar. 100 in basketball skill & 100 in attributes might. When we can agree that Mikayla fell far short in UCONN required basketball skills hopefully you will see why attributes was not a factor.
I can agree with your final sentence. She was a good kid that worked well. Not getting a waiver to her or any kid is basically wrong. If the intent is to minimize transfers--that ship sailed and sunk.
 
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I can't even believe we are having this discussion regarding Mikayla and have dragged Kelly's name into this.
To get meaningful playing time at UCONN Faris had to compete with: Hayes, Doty, Dixon, Hartley, Jefferson, Banks, KML & Greene. Kelly got it done.
To get meaningful minutes in her two season at UCONN Mikayla had to compete with: Molly Bent & AEH-briefly. Mikayla didn't get it done.
Kelly did not have to compete with any of those players. Hartley, Jefferson, Banks and KML all came after her and Hartley and KML specifically did the things Kelly didn’t do—provide offense. Jefferson didn’t figure it out until her sophomore year. Banks never got it at UConn, and Doty was injured/never herself after her injuries so I would hardly say Faris had to compete with her for playing time. Mikayla mainly competed with Azure Stevens and Megan Walker and then Williams and ONO for her playing time. She didn’t get it done, but then again Faris never had a major injury/illness keep her out like Coombs did.

The reason I brought up Kelly Faris and Kalana Greene was because you said players needed to be able to shoot and pass and neither were prolific shooters or scorers and neither was going to go down in history as one of the best passers to come out of UConn. They provided defense, rebounds, and effort just like every UConn player should be expected to.
 
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HuskyNan

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Kelly had trouble making 3's until a senior. Kelly had one GREAT game and even Geno commented on her not repeating it. Her greatest asset was ATTITUDE and COACH ABLE.
Are you kidding me - one great game?

From UConn’s Kelly Faris Has Been There Before

At the 2010 Final Four, she did not score a point as a reserve, but she played at least 25 minutes in both games and so reliably delivered rebounds, assists and steals that Auriemma called her “probably the most impactful player in the tournament” other than [Maya] Moore.

Last season, Auriemma said that Faris “would never play a bad game” at Connecticut, given her sober resourcefulness. Her value was evident Tuesday in a 75-40 rout of Duke in the final of the Philadelphia Regional. Faris committed 5 turnovers but remained sufficiently composed to deliver 8 rebounds, 6 points, 6 assists, 2 steals and a blocked shot
.

The article was written before the end of Kelly’s sophomore year and she only got better. She was a All American, for heaven’s sake. Your post renders any other evaluation of a player as suspect. Good thing Geno can spot talent.

 
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Are you kidding me - one great game?

From UConn’s Kelly Faris Has Been There Before

At the 2010 Final Four, she did not score a point as a reserve, but she played at least 25 minutes in both games and so reliably delivered rebounds, assists and steals that Auriemma called her “probably the most impactful player in the tournament” other than [Maya] Moore.

Last season, Auriemma said that Faris “would never play a bad game” at Connecticut, given her sober resourcefulness. Her value was evident Tuesday in a 75-40 rout of Duke in the final of the Philadelphia Regional. Faris committed 5 turnovers but remained sufficiently composed to deliver 8 rebounds, 6 points, 6 assists, 2 steals and a blocked shot
.

The article was written before the end of Kelly’s sophomore year and she only got better. She was a All American, for heaven’s sake. Your post renders any other evaluation of a player as suspect. Good thing Geno can spot talent.

On that one great game Geno spoke wonderfully of her--then she never really followed up on that. And Geno spoke of that often. Diggins for the most part owned Kelly, as a defender she didn't do well with Diggy Baby. In the one game i SEE in my minds eye and saw a month or so ago on Youtube, Diggins stuffed kelly at least twice and Kelly could not return the favor. As kelly and diggins enter the College basket all pundits spoke of Kelly being Uconn equal to Diggins, that never happened and I'm am not a Diggins fan.
You believe as you do and I'll remember and then watch the replays. Kelly got a lot of adoration for some UC fans because supposedly her father was a coach and she played like a coaches daughter--I never saw that.
I destroyed all my CPTV tapes or I'd pull some of those comment out. Again, you believe as you do and I keep my view of Kelly as I do. Obviously I wasnt far from the truth in my eval of kelly, she didn't do well or long in the Pros. Have a merry Xmas.
 

HuskyNan

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On that one great game Geno spoke wonderfully of her--then she never really followed up on that. And Geno spoke of that often. Diggins for the most part owned Kelly, as a defender she didn't do well with Diggy Baby. In the one game i SEE in my minds eye and saw a month or so ago on Youtube, Diggins stuffed kelly at least twice and Kelly could not return the favor. As kelly and diggins enter the College basket all pundits spoke of Kelly being Uconn equal to Diggins, that never happened and I'm am not a Diggins fan.
You believe as you do and I'll remember and then watch the replays. Kelly got a lot of adoration for some UC fans because supposedly her father was a coach and she played like a coaches daughter--I never saw that.
I destroyed all my CPTV tapes or I'd pull some of those comment out. Again, you believe as you do and I keep my view of Kelly as I do. Obviously I wasnt far from the truth in my eval of kelly, she didn't do well or long in the Pros. Have a merry Xmas.
  1. As I said, your opinion of Kelly renders any other evaluation of a player you may make suspect. Kelly is as complete a basketball player, with an incredible b-ball IQ, as any that has played at UConn. If you didn’t see that, well, :rolleyes:
  2. No one could shut down Skylar Diggins; she is a great player, no matter what some ND haters say.
  3. “Diggy Baby”? What are you, 12? Grow up
 

nwhoopfan

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If it was that apparent that early, why did Geno recruit her? He normally has such a good eye for uncoachable flaws, and tends to avoid "projects." I wasn't around during her recruitment, but I'm curious to know how this wasn't apparent back then (or why, if it was, it wasn't considered fatal).

Honestly that was just a strange class for UConn. 3 out of 4 left within 2 years or less, and none of the 3 that departed made a significant impact while in Storrs. Did the staff misevaluate most of them that year? From the outside looking in, can't really make sense of it.
 

Rocket009

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On that one great game Geno spoke wonderfully of her--then she never really followed up on that. And Geno spoke of that often. Diggins for the most part owned Kelly, as a defender she didn't do well with Diggy Baby. In the one game i SEE in my minds eye and saw a month or so ago on Youtube, Diggins stuffed kelly at least twice and Kelly could not return the favor. As kelly and diggins enter the College basket all pundits spoke of Kelly being Uconn equal to Diggins, that never happened and I'm am not a Diggins fan.
You believe as you do and I'll remember and then watch the replays. Kelly got a lot of adoration for some UC fans because supposedly her father was a coach and she played like a coaches daughter--I never saw that.
I destroyed all my CPTV tapes or I'd pull some of those comment out. Again, you believe as you do and I keep my view of Kelly as I do. Obviously I wasnt far from the truth in my eval of kelly, she didn't do well or long in the Pros. Have a merry Xmas.

Maybe you should watch this Replay

then you can read 5 Ways to Bounce Back from Sticking Your Foot in Your Mouth
 

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