Confidence in Danny Going Forward

[EricSD]

This is only his 2nd year. That means all the upper classmen are kids who were recruited by someone else. I would still expect him to get buy in for anyone on the floor - buy in for what kind of team he wants to run. If you don't buy in, then you sit, no matter how good.

But maybe he just doesn't have the talent. Maybe there aren't enough good players on the team. We were certainly good enough to beat ranked Florida and lose a close game to ranked Xavier in overtime.

 

[bendm]

I think Danny needs to get his own players, who are recruited with his culture profile in mind. We have
3 guys in that category getting playing time and 4 in the pipeline ( Cole, Jackson, Javonte Brown Ferguson, Springs). So if we add 1 or 2 more in the Spring - we are about a recruiting year away. True, guys need to mature, etc. But, Chief sees progress but we are a season or two away from in translating consistently into wins against quality teams.

if hurley can add 2 more players this spring/summer (for a total of 4 in 2020 as you predicted) then next year the top 10 guys in the rotation could all be Hurley's own guys.

Hurley gets a 9 in terms of recruiting so far. I'm reserving judgment on the other stuff until 2020-2021.

 

[Towney007]

By repeatedly posting the same thing you're showing you don't have a clue on this topic, I get it. For the fifth time UConn has higher ranked recruits than Cinci.

I mean that's what 24/7 ranked each of those classes. ON average, they have higher rated recruits and have for a while, especially considering what's still there for both programs. I mean you can believe it all you want - but between speculative paper ratings like this and what's happened on the floor - i'm not sure where you walk away with 'they're inferior to us'.

And save the 'you're clueless' stuff. Totally unnecessary.

 

[superjohn]

I mean that's what 24/7 ranked each of those classes. ON average, they have higher rated recruits and have for a while, especially considering what's still there for both programs. I mean you can believe it all you want - but between speculative paper ratings like this and what's happened on the floor - i'm not sure where you walk away with 'they're inferior to us'.

And save the 'you're clueless' stuff. Totally unnecessary.

You're wrong, I don't know how many different ways I can tell you. You can debate whether they have more talent than us on the floor but they don't have higher ranked players than us...that's what you keep trying to say and you're wrong, UConn has higher ranked recruits than Cinci. If you followed recruiting or even just researched it a little you would know you're wrong.

 

[Kathy]

Wouldnt it be fair to allow Hurley to finish his second season before knocking the comparison? I’m sure Calhoun had some head scratchers his second year, it just gets lost in just because of the success that followed. Give Hurley some time. His upperclassmen have never even experienced a winning season. Think about that. We lose sight of what Hurley inherited. Coming into this season fans had certain reasonable, fair expectations. We knew nights like last night would happen. But after Charleston fans expectations for this group became too high imo. If we readjust our expectations for this season and just focus on playing postseason basketball and seeing growth, these games will become a lot more enjoyable. Dan can absolutely improve, and I believe he will.The same wouldve been said of Calhoun in the beginning. But these overreactions both positive and negative after every game aren’t representative of where we are.

Same would not have been said of Calhoun - he inherited a dumpster fire - his 2 best players declared academically ineligible, UConn hadn't had a winning record in 5 years. Not much different than what Hurley walked into with the exception that Hurley has history of 4 National Championships by UConn to help with recruiting. Calhoun was staring from scratch.

 

[TJT]

Are we expecting too much too soon from Hurley? If his past is an indication, he never got Wagner to the NCAA in his two seasons there and he needed five years to get URI to the NCAA. Maybe his builds require a lot of patience and time.

 

[uconngb]

Way too many round numbers in here, a bunch of rookie scores.

I would grade on three areas

Recruiting - 10. Getting the recruits while being in the AAC and a losing program for the last couple years has been quite the feat. Sure he missed out on Kofi and Precious but again it's tough with the factors I listed before. And although he missed on those guys, it's kinda good to see them dominating because that shows how good his eye for talent is.

Development - 9. This is a credit to the entire staff but players have gotten better. Carlton was MIP, Akok is clearly better and stronger due in large part to him joining last winter, and BA has gone from not seeing much time to the first man off the bench. Would like to have seen a little more development from some of the older guys, which is the only reason why this isnt a 10.

Game prep/in game adjustments - 6. This is the biggest weakness in my eyes. The team coming out flat to start the games is getting tired, and it takes a while to make in game adjustments. The defense has been solid, but the offense is tough to watch, and against halfway decent opponents they can't get the ball inside or get open shots for our best shooters.

That gives us an average of 8.3.

I like your approach, but unfortunately, I think the last score is lower, like maybe a 4. Game planning is weak (or non-existent at times, like last night), in-game adjustments just don't happen, substitution patterns are mysterious, and the failure to call timeouts and yank guys more quickly is just astounding.

 

[Marat]

Are we expecting too much too soon from Hurley? If his past is an indication, he never got Wagner to the NCAA in his two seasons there and he needed five years to get URI to the NCAA. Maybe his builds require a lot of patience and time.

The problem is that we are not Wagner or URI. Most reasonable UConn fans can wait 2-3 years for results, but 5 years is way too long to get back to NCAAs.

 

[Towney007]

You're wrong, I don't know how many different ways I can tell you. You can debate whether they have more talent than us on the floor but they don't have higher ranked players than us...that's what you keep trying to say and you're wrong, UConn has higher ranked recruits than Cinci. If you followed recruiting or even just researched it a little you would know you're wrong.

I literally just posted one of the largest recruiting bureaus recruiting rankings for those respective years. I'm not ranking anyone - they are. They have their players *ranked* ahead of ours. On average as classes - their recruits are rated better than ours. We have *some guys* rated higher than theirs - but on the whole - the last four years it's not even close. I'm not sure how you could make the argument that it is considering that in two years we basically didn't have classes. I'm surprised we're even arguing about this.

 

[Doctor Hoop]

I saw complaints that this thread only happens after bad losses. That may be true. There are complaints that you can't compare Hurley to Calhoun. Also true, but he is the one who took the UConn job, some of that comes with the territory.

There are complaints that we need three or four years of recruiting to really know where we are, since all holdovers were kept, but then others point out that some 1st year coaches seem to do more with less, including the new coach in Cincinnati, apparently. Tre Scott for Cincy killed us yesterday - 10 pts, 13 boards. He is a senior. However, his 24-7 rank? #268.

My opinions on the flow and design of the offense wouldn't change if we had won, or even lost a close one. It's still limited in effectiveness, seems to use big players too far from the basket, doesn't force the D to react and repel threats, and only scores regularly in transition and off scrambles. Carlton still doesn't have a go to post move - he needs one going left, and one going right. A drop step. A jump hook. An up and under. Something, hell anything. Even Cincy's backup center had a rolling hook he used effectively. That's big man coaching. It's painful to watch.

There are better teachers of offense than Hurley. He has my support, just like for a few years Ollie did, and I really hope the team comes around in the next month or so. But recruiting isn't the ultimate goal, it's winning on the court. That's going to take more than just signing highly regarded players. The lame offense and defensive mistakes have to be cleaned up.

 

[KingAG]

Same would not have been said of Calhoun - he inherited a dumpster fire - his 2 best players declared academically ineligible, UConn hadn't had a winning record in 5 years. Not much different than what Hurley walked into with the exception that Hurley has history of 4 National Championships by UConn to help with recruiting. Calhoun was staring from scratch. Hurley walked into a terrible situation. When he got here the 4 championships meant close to nothing. He had to play Eric Cobb significant minutes last season. Hurley isn’t even 2 years in yet and if what we’ve seen to this point remains we’ll be playing postseason basketball. No one is Calhoun. But their circumstances stances both have their pros and cons

 

[Kathy]

Hurley walked into a terrible situation. When he got here the 4 championships meant close to nothing. He had to play Eric Cobb significant minutes last season. Hurley isn’t even 2 years in yet and if what we’ve seen to this point remains we’ll be playing postseason basketball. No one is Calhoun. But their circumstances stances both have their pros and cons

Never said Hurley didn't walk into a terrible situation but to say Calhoun didn't have it just as hard is just wrong.

 

[KingAG]

Never said Hurley didn't walk into a terrible situation but to say Calhoun didn't have it just as hard is just wrong.

Agreed. I didn’t say Calhoun didn’t have it hard. He did the greatest building job in Collegiate sports history. But we can’t poo on Hurley’s second year because of what Calhoun did his second year when Hurley’s second year is still in progress lol. Why posters are acting as if we haven’t seen waaay more positives than negatives this season is beyond me. We lose sight so fast. It’s why putting the value of a whole season into one game is idiotic at best. I knew this would happen. The boneyard is very predictable. Set unrealistic expectations, then trash team when they don’t meet them. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

[Watchdog]

While we're debating the quality of the players recruited in the past, here's a glimpse of the physical difference in a first year UConn recruit and a fourth year Cincinnati recruit................both guards but one's a man and the other needs to develop but with a body type that will never be like the other.

Okafor, Villanueva, Boone, Voskuhl, Oriakhi, etc. didn't come to UConn looking like Akok but we either can't get those type players anymore or Hurley's pursuing the wrong ones. Did past teams have today's emphasis on weight training, or did we just recruit bigger guys and keep them toned? Forget the Kofi's and get a Jake.

 

[superjohn]

I literally just posted one of the largest recruiting bureaus recruiting rankings for those respective years. I'm not ranking anyone - they are. They have their players *ranked* ahead of ours. On average as classes - their recruits are rated better than ours. We have *some guys* rated higher than theirs - but on the whole - the last four years it's not even close. I'm not sure how you could make the argument that it is considering that in two years we basically didn't have classes. I'm surprised we're even arguing about this.

Geezus, dude...this is exhausting.

You clearly keep showing you don't know what players play for the two programs and you clearly don't follow recruiting, if you did you would stop with this class nonsense. We have higher ranked recruits than Cincy.

 

[HuskylnSC]

He just got a bunch of stud freshmen and one of them is the only one on the team who can get his own shot. This is a process

another one is the only one who has shown the ability to run an offense and the third is the best defensive player on the team with untapped offense.

 

[Husky68]

Agreed. I didn’t say Calhoun didn’t have it hard. He did the greatest building job in Collegiate sports history. But we can’t poo on Hurley’s second year because of what Calhoun did his second year when Hurley’s second year is still in progress lol. Why posters are acting as if we haven’t seen waaay more positives than negatives this season is beyond me. We lose sight so fast. It’s why putting the value of a whole season into one game is idiotic at best. I knew this would happen. The boneyard is very predictable. Set unrealistic expectations, then trash team when they don’t meet them. Wash, rinse, repeat.

There is no over reaction to this game. The players did not play bad they played terribly bad, looked befuddled, team offense scheme would have embarrassed Calipari (even Derrick Rose at point guard would have trouble making it work), defense spreads out and pressures ball just enough to give good driving and passing lanes to opponents and team took as many flings as shots. There were no successful in game adjustments by the coach. Hurley gets this type of results in game 13 he needs to fix what he can and that is the schemes, personnel minutes and in game adjustments.
This was a very uncompetitive 16 point loss, seemed more like 30.

 

[Chief00]

Same would not have been said of Calhoun - he inherited a dumpster fire - his 2 best players declared academically ineligible, UConn hadn't had a winning record in 5 years. Not much different than what Hurley walked into with the exception that Hurley has history of 4 National Championships by UConn to help with recruiting. Calhoun was staring from scratch.

Having a 6-11 guy in year 2 (Cliff), who became an NBA sixth man of the year and perhaps an NBA All Star isn’t a definition of a dumpster fire. So while there’s some truth to what you posted - let’s not oversell it.

 

[Chief00]

I saw complaints that this thread only happens after bad losses. That may be true. There are complaints that you can't compare Hurley to Calhoun. Also true, but he is the one who took the UConn job, some of that comes with the territory.

There are complaints that we need three or four years of recruiting to really know where we are, since all holdovers were kept, but then others point out that some 1st year coaches seem to do more with less, including the new coach in Cincinnati, apparently. Tre Scott for Cincy killed us yesterday - 10 pts, 13 boards. He is a senior. However, his 24-7 rank? #268.

My opinions on the flow and design of the offense wouldn't change if we had won, or even lost a close one. It's still limited in effectiveness, seems to use big players too far from the basket, doesn't force the D to react and repel threats, and only scores regularly in transition and off scrambles. Carlton still doesn't have a go to post move - he needs one going left, and one going right. A drop step. A jump hook. An up and under. Something, hell anything. Even Cincy's backup center had a rolling hook he used effectively. That's big man coaching. It's painful to watch.

There are better teachers of offense than Hurley. He has my support, just like for a few years Ollie did, and I really hope the team comes around in the next month or so. But recruiting isn't the ultimate goal, it's winning on the court. That's going to take more than just signing highly regarded players. The lame offense and defensive mistakes have to be cleaned up.

I don’t disagree, but guys who can put the ball in the basket make a coach look smart.

 

[KingAG]

There is no over reaction to this game. The players did not play bad they played terribly bad, looked befuddled, team offense scheme would have embarrassed Calipari (even Derrick Rose at point guard would have trouble making it work), defense spreads out and pressures ball just enough to give good driving and passing lanes to opponents and team took as many flings as shots. There were no successful in game adjustments by the coach. Hurley gets this type of results in game 13 he needs to fix what he can and that is the schemes, personnel minutes and in game adjustments.
This was a very uncompetitive 16 point loss, seemed more like 30.

The fact that you allow one game to put a damper on an entire season is in fact an overreaction

 

[kemba]

While we're debating the quality of the players recruited in the past, here's a glimpse of the physical difference in a first year UConn recruit and a fourth year Cincinnati recruit................both guards but one's a man and the other needs to develop but with a body type that will never be like the other.

Okafor, Villanueva, Boone, Voskuhl, Oriakhi, etc. didn't come to UConn looking like Akok but we either can't get those type players anymore or Hurley's pursuing the wrong ones. Did past teams have today's emphasis on weight training, or did we just recruit bigger guys and keep them toned? Forget the Kofi's and get a Jake.

View attachment 49606

It's also a different era. We won the 2014 title with skinny freshmen and sophomore bigs and Olander. As ugly as last night was, Cincy is not the program we want to model.

 

[Kolumbo]

All Hurley has to do is come up with one of these soon.

 

[Rich]

Hurley’s mistake was allowing Ollie’s guys to stay. It reduced everyones’ expectations and forces him to accept a lower playing level floor than he would otherwise tolerate. Call it ‘socializing mediocrity’.

Three recruiting classes, maybe four to completely fill out the roster + migrate to the Big East. Deal with it.

 

[Vuce]

It's also a different era. We won the 2014 title with skinny freshmen and sophomore bigs and Olander. As ugly as last night was, Cincy is not the program we want to model.

And the best backcourt in the country. Don’t forget them

 

[HuskyHawk]

I think Danny needs to get his own players, who are recruited with his culture profile in mind. We have
3 guys in that category getting playing time and 4 in the pipeline ( Cole, Jackson, Javonte Brown Ferguson, Springs). So if we add 1 or 2 more in the Spring - we are about a recruiting year away. True, guys need to mature, etc. But, Chief sees progress but we are a season or two away from translating consistently into wins against quality teams.

I think this is overrated as an excuse. It applies because Hurley seems to ignore that these players are different than he wants. Give Harbaugh Lamar Jackson and run a spread 4 wide offense where Lamar executes the old Dan Marino offense. He‘d suck at it and the team would be bad. It’s the same here. We have seen Carlton be very effective in the right role. He’s not being allowed to do that because it isn’t DHs system. That is BS. It’s bad coaching. Your system and style of play must be flexible enough to fit varied rosters.

I think I he’s a super smart, passionate guy who is perhaps a little bit too set in his ways. He thought by year two he could just run his stuff. He can’t. He probably can’t next year. He might wait a long time, even with “his” guys to have a team that can run his system the way he wants.

With the exception of having the center play aggressively outside on D they execute his defense pretty well. Even the Ollie guys. In fact the Ollie guys play best on that end aside from Akok. But the offense. Just put that five out offense in the trash for good and run traditional half court basketball With at least one if not two guys in the post. We are bringing Josh outside so a 5”11 guard can get to the rim? Really? How’s that working so far? Maybe if we had Russell Westbrook. Maybe.

I saw Calhoun play lots of varied offense based on his guys. He didn’t waste Adrien or Boone on the perimeter. if we had Shon Miller on this team he’d be standing on the three point line scoring 4 a game on offensive rebounds.

 

[kemba]

And the best backcourt in the country. Don’t forget them

That's my point. Guard play wins

 

[Get a Job]

Geezus, dude...this is exhausting.

You clearly keep showing you don't know what players play for the two programs and you clearly don't follow recruiting, if you did you would stop with this class nonsense. We have higher ranked recruits than Cincy.

Could you list numbers like Towney did to support your point? I'm not doubting you, but you are coming off really poorly by telling him he's wrong without a counter argument.

 

[kemba]

I think this is overrated as an excuse. It applies because Hurley seems to ignore that these players are different than he wants. Give Harbaugh Lamar Jackson and run a spread 4 wide offense where Lamar executes the old Dan Marino offense. He‘d suck at it and the team would be bad. It’s the same here. We have seen Carlton be very effective in the right role. He’s not being allowed to do that because it isn’t DHs system. That is BS. It’s bad coaching. Your system and style of play must be flexible enough to fit varied rosters.

Carlton gets plenty of touches in the post. Force feeding him the ball down there is not the key to turning this offense around. He's a limited player. Nothing to do with how they are using him

 

[Waquoit]

Agreed. I didn’t say Calhoun didn’t have it hard. He did the greatest building job in Collegiate sports history. But we can’t poo on Hurley’s second year because of what Calhoun did his second year when Hurley’s second year is still in progress lol.

Let's not forget that Calhoun's 3rd season was a bitter disappointment. They had a decent win at Virginia early and made it into the Top 20. Pretty much all downhill from there. It was supposed to be back to dance for the first time in a decade, instead it was back to the NIT. Imagine if there was a Boneyard back then. He'd be getting killed the same way Hurley is getting killed now, for the same things. Things will be better next year, just like they were for JC.

 

[Kathy]

Let's not forget that Calhoun's 3rd season was a bitter disappointment. They had a decent win at Virginia early and made it into the Top 20. Pretty much all downhill from there. It was supposed to be back to dance for the first time in a decade, instead it was back to the NIT. Imagine if there was a Boneyard back then. He'd be getting killed the same way Hurley is getting killed now, for the same things. Things will be better next year, just like they were for JC.

I wouldn't call it a bitter disappointment - NCAA would have been nice but after the last 4-5 Perno years any post season was refreshing.