OT: Condo Board

[SteelCT]

Lawyers of the yard: My wife and I own a condo in CT where the association pool is closed going on year 2. The HOA board is claiming that they along with the entire community can be sued if someone gets Covid at the pool.
We joined the bi-monthly meeting to try to understand better what was going on. The first part of the meeting was open to all, however towards the end they made everyone but the board leave.
My question is does anyone know of a precedent for the pool being closed?
Also, is it normal for community members to not be allowed in board meetings?
It seems like the board is hiding things. There is a real lack of transparency between the board and condo community.
Thanks in advance!

 

[Fishy]

Having an open meeting followed by a closed session is normal - monthly board meetings at most condos and cooperatives are generally closed sessions.

The entire community can be sued if someone visits and trips over a piece of lint or if a tree limb lands on their foot or for a thousand and one other things…that is why the condominium has insurance. Most condo board members do not understand what their actual liability is, but some insurance policies did contain a carve out that stated that the carrier would not defend a Covid case…I suspect that is what is happening at your place and suggest that is your line of questioning for them.

 

[Fishy]

As for the pool being closed, it seems to run counter to all known guidance on Covid.

 

[SteelCT]

They are saying that the insurance does not cover covid or infectious disease.

 

[dogpause]

Most insurance is All-Peril, ask to see the policy and all related correspondence. You could catch Covid easier at a condo meeting that at an outdoor pool filled with chlorinated water. I'm guessing that most of your board members don't use the pool, and see this as an opportunity to reduce an expense for a perk they don't care about. However, a pool can enhance the property value of a condo.

 

[Fishy]

They are saying that the insurance does not cover covid or infectious disease.

That is not a surprise and almost certainly accurate.

The carrier might defend the claim, but not cover any judgement that results. Or they might decline to even defend.

Most insurance is All-Peril, ask to see the policy and all related correspondence. You could catch Covid easier at a condo meeting that at an outdoor pool filled with chlorinated water. I'm guessing that most of your board members don't use the pool, and see this as an opportunity to reduce an expense for a perk they don't care about. However, a pool can enhance the property value of a condo.

Doubt it. A board member who randomly decides to kill the pool to save a few bucks is not going to be a board member for very long. They’re almost certainly afraid of the liability, for better or worse.

 

[jleves]

Lawyers of the yard: My wife and I own a condo in CT where the association pool is closed going on year 2. The HOA board is claiming that they along with the entire community can be sued if someone gets Covid at the pool.
We joined the bi-monthly meeting to try to understand better what was going on. The first part of the meeting was open to all, however towards the end they made everyone but the board leave.
My question is does anyone know of a precedent for the pool being closed?
Also, is it normal for community members to not be allowed in board meetings?
It seems like the board is hiding things. There is a real lack of transparency between the board and condo community.
Thanks in advance!

I was on the Board for my community for a time here in California - not sure how different HOA law is in different states, but I'd imagine it's pretty much the same.

First, most HOAs are incorporated and you, the community elected the members of the Board to run your 'company'. Fortunately you also have CCRs so they can't do things like arbitrarily decide that everyone has to have pink doors.

Most meetings start with Open session where members of the community are given a few minutes to speak. The Board has no obligation to respond to anyone. We deferred comment until the following meeting so we had time to research, think about and or discuss the topic. After the Open session, members are not to be involved in the rest of the meeting other than to observe. Technically, none of you should have been recognized after the Open session.

There is almost always some kind of private information that needs to be discussed in a closed session. Things like person x is 3 months behind on dues and we need to put a lien on their place. We also had to discuss legal action we were taking against a homeowner for damaging HOA property.

It would seem that it would be almost impossible to get things done if they couldn't talk outside of meetings like dealing with broken stuff or contractors, etc. They just shouldn't be making policy decisions outside of the meeting.

Bottom line, if you don't like what they are doing, run for the position next time. We got a group of three to run for the open positions and 'over throw' two folks who had dominated the board for years and made bad decisions. If it's really bad and you can't wait for open elections, you can have a recall election which is a ton of work and causes a lot of bad feelings.

Read your CCRs and Rules and Regulations.

 

[dvegas]

The worst are scumy HOA's. No matter how much they ignore their governing documents and state statutes, you can't get a lawyer to sue them. I'm a real estate professional (with a UCONN real estate degree), have documented fraud, and can prove the board\officers did not use standard of care or fulfill their fiduciary responsibility, and can't get a lawyer to sue them. Too much $$ to be made representing associations. anyone have a referral?

 

[jleves]

The worst are scumy HOA's. No matter how much they ignore their governing documents and state statutes, you can't get a lawyer to sue them. I'm a real estate professional (with a UCONN real estate degree), have documented fraud, and can prove the board\officers did not use standard of care or fulfill their fiduciary responsibility, and can't get a lawyer to sue them. Too much $$ to be made representing associations. anyone have a referral?

It is difficult to sue a Board member. They are protected pretty well as long as they aren't actually stealing money or doing things like funneling contracts to family members. But again, that's when you lead an effort to replace the bad Board members.

 

[huskymedic]

…But again, that's when you lead an effort to replace the bad Board members.

 

[HooperScooper]

If someone got Covid how could they prove they got it at the pool? So how could the condo board be liable? If there is liability then every school system, every college, every restaurant, every business could be liable for anyone who gets Covid.

 

[Fishy]

If someone got Covid how could they prove they got it at the pool? So how could the condo board be liable? If there is liability then every school system, every college, every restaurant, every business could be liable for anyone who gets Covid.

Somewhere behind their decision is an attorney and an insurance broker telling them that they have no coverage if they’re sued. (”You made the decision to open the pool, the Wilsons came to the pool, sat next to our grandma and then tested positive for Covid and now grandma is dead.”)

Their decision is not irrational.

 

[HooperScooper]

Somewhere behind their decision is an attorney and an insurance broker telling them that they have no coverage if they’re sued. (”You made the decision to open the pool, the Wilsons came to the pool, sat next to our grandma and then tested positive for Covid and now grandma is dead.”)

Their decision is not irrational.

I guess. But is every business and organization in the country getting that kind of advice? I haven't heard any other stories of businesses and organizations closing because they're scared of Covid liability.

 

[dvegas]

It is difficult to sue a Board member. They are protected pretty well as long as they aren't actually stealing money or doing things like funneling contracts to family members. But again, that's when you lead an effort to replace the bad Board members.

You are actually not suing a board member, you are suing the association, which includes your share (% interest). The key a lot of board members don't realize when they are screwing over members aka owners ( usually while bring told by the property manager and the associations attorney dont worry, its imposdible to sue you), not only are they members of the executive board of the association, they are also members of the board of the non=stock corporation. That's where they should be liable.. But as mentioned, you can't get an attorney to take your case. If they are successful, they will lose business of the associations. I've got horror stories....and as far as joining the board, I did. Then the board removed me. Illegally. A member can only be removed by the association. They just hired a more expensive lawyer to "fix" their mistake. Its a scam. CT has awful common interest laws.

 

[Dove]

Lawyers of the yard: My wife and I own a condo in CT where the association pool is closed going on year 2. The HOA board is claiming that they along with the entire community can be sued if someone gets Covid at the pool.
We joined the bi-monthly meeting to try to understand better what was going on. The first part of the meeting was open to all, however towards the end they made everyone but the board leave.
My question is does anyone know of a precedent for the pool being closed?
Also, is it normal for community members to not be allowed in board meetings?
It seems like the board is hiding things. There is a real lack of transparency between the board and condo community.
Thanks in advance!

Request the HOA By Laws and you'll see how meetings are run. Perhaps they are usually in Executive Session after Public Forum.

 

[dvegas]

Request the HOA By Laws and you'll see how meetings are run. Perhaps they are usually in Executive Session after Public Forum.

The board cannot vote in executive session. Not opening a pool that is a common amenity would require a vote by the board in an open meeting. But the board is most likely being advised by the management company, their attorney (and perhaps an insurer) to do as they please, they can't be sued successfully.

 

[Fishy]

I guess. But is every business and organization in the country getting that kind of advice? I haven't heard any other stories of businesses and organizations closing because they're scared of Covid liability.

This is something of a unique situation because you’re talking about a group of people trying to govern an entity with dozens of individuals whose ownership interest is actually the home that they live in.

The stakes are rather high there, no?

 

[casual-yardin]

The worst are scumy HOA's. No matter how much they ignore their governing documents and state statutes, you can't get a lawyer to sue them. I'm a real estate professional (with a UCONN real estate degree), have documented fraud, and can prove the board\officers did not use standard of care or fulfill their fiduciary responsibility, and can't get a lawyer to sue them. Too much $$ to be made representing associations. anyone have a referral?

When you say you can't "get" a lawyer, is this a lawyer that you are offering to pay?

 

[dvegas]

Yes

 

[Hoophound]

Thousands of HOA’s and condo boards across the country closed amenity centers, pools and gyms for COVID. They were all fearing liability. At this point, your pool should be open since everyone else is open for business. There comes a point where the board has to stop being afraid. Even when the state is fully open, someone can still attempt a frivolous lawsuit.

 

[husky429]

I'm currently starting a house search with my fiance. Not planning on buying for a couple years, but this thread has pretty squarely convinced me that absolutely no HOA needs to be at the top of the list.

 

[Get a Job]

I'm currently starting a house search with my fiance. Not planning on buying for a couple years, but this thread has pretty squarely convinced me that absolutely no HOA needs to be at the top of the list.

Good choice. I naively moved into an HOA thinking I wouldn't really notice any day-to-day influence. When the board refused to allow me to install solar panels, I joined the board, and it has been non-stop drama ever since. Not worth it just to have decent-looking properties in the neighborhood and mowed common areas.

 

[NJHusky]

Somewhere behind their decision is an attorney and an insurance broker telling them that they have no coverage if they’re sued. (”You made the decision to open the pool, the Wilsons came to the pool, sat next to our grandma and then tested positive for Covid and now grandma is dead.”)

Their decision is not irrational.

Correct...although inconvenient, as board members they are trying to be as risk averse as possible, which is actually a good thing...You could also suggest they institute a waiver from anyone that wants to use the pool and not allow guests....and require an indemnification from anyone that tries to sneak in a guest..But that would be a PIA to enforce.

 

[Ant3411]

My HOA pulled the same thing last year - which is understandable. But to do that this year is complete BS, especially with the economy fully open with no business restrictions or masks mandates. And with a readily available vaccine I assume nobody would have any ground to sue anyone.

Sounds like a lazy HOA board and sounds like a bunch of old people who don't want anyone to have fun or enjoy themselves (at least that's how I feel about my board).

Side note: this year we had to show proof of vaccination and sign a waiver to receive a pool wristband. And anyone not vaccinated has to show a negative covid test within 24 hours of using the pool. Your board can at least implement something like that...

 

[polycom]

Reason 10051 not to live an HOA neighborhood. (Yes I understand it's a Condo but still.)