Commentary Thread for Premium Top-Shelf Tweets

[noeynox]

UT is in a city, it's not the location, it's the mission of the school. Large state schools, land grant especially, represent the entire state. City schools represent and serve the city they are in. They are inherently limited institutions, which will never have a fanbase or broad appeal that approaches that of their counterparts.

Thus:
Wichita State is below KU and K State
Houston is below UT and A&M
Memphis is below U Tenn
Louisville is below UK
Cinci is below Ohio State
UCF and USF are below Florida and FSU

Thanks. Much better said than me.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Cincinnati will never be a pimple on Ohio States ass even if on equal footing in a P5 league. This was proven by their BCS appearances while in a BCS league. Houston didn't draw the top rating in their own market during a 13-1, season. City Schools like those cannot compare with the drawing power of a state flagship school all things being equal. I expect the big 12 presidents to understand this phenomenon based on public comments.

Your argument isn't against city schools, it's against secondary state schools. The same argument can be made about Pitt, Purdue, NC State, Kansas State, etc.

That said, your arguments for Houston aren't relevant if Texas wants them in bad enough. And Cincinnati, while I agree they don't hold a candle to OSU, still is a good enough candidate that others in the B12 would see them as a good fit. Cincinnati is the vanilla ice cream cone of Big 12 expansion. They're good at lots of things, great at nothing, but enough to satisfy everyone when all of the other candidates have one or more flaws in some capacity.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Unrelated but has anyone ever seen the show Campus PD? They film at Univ of Cincinnati and, at the expense of sounding elitist, all those commuter schools look like absolute ass.

 

[tykurez]

If your an LGBT community member why would you want to go there? There are tens of thousands of colleges and universities willing to take your money and not care about who or how you love. Why insist on being uncomfortable, making others uncomfortable and then complain when what you are complaining about is spelled out to you in their honor code before you go there.

If everybody subscribed to this school of thought we'd live in a fantastically segregated society.

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Unrelated but has anyone ever seen the show Campus PD? They film at Univ of Cincinnati and, at the expense of sounding elitist, all those commuter schools look like absolute ass.

Lol is that show on anymore? I love the episode with the UC kid who split his head open.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Eh that's almost entirely perception. Does Ohio University represent Ohio more than Cincinnati? What about Texas State? Lincoln University is land grant, ever heard of it? How about the University of Idaho? Tennessee State? I can go on and on. Indiana isn't a land grant school and represents Indiana much more than Purdue (we'll leave Notre Dame out of this conversation they're a unique case.)

Each situation is unique. Texas State is like Central Connecticut State. It's a much lower tier school. Same with Tennessee State. Some states name those schools for cities, as they do in MA.

Purdue is a peer of IU in the same way A&M is a peer of UT. Neither is named for a city or has an initial mission to serve a specific city, they are state wide institutions. Ohio U is fine, it just never embraced big time athletics. That was a choice.

By the way, perception is everything. People in Texas outside of Houston are not likely to embrace a school called "Houston" as compared with one called "Texas" or 'Texas A&M". Same with Memphis. People feel that their state U represents them, its why they get non alumni fans. Even within those who have a larger mission, KU has a much wider following in KS than K-State does. Iowa does vs. Iowa St. as well. City named public schools tend to have a small non-alumni following, especially outside of their city.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Your argument isn't against city schools, it's against secondary state schools. The same argument can be made about Pitt, Purdue, NC State, Kansas State, etc.

That said, your arguments for Houston aren't relevant if Texas wants them in bad enough. And Cincinnati, while I agree they don't hold a candle to OSU, still is a good enough candidate that others in the B12 would see them as a good fit. Cincinnati is the vanilla ice cream cone of Big 12 expansion. They're good at lots of things, great at nothing, but enough to satisfy everyone when all of the other candidates have one or more flaws in some capacity.

Sort of. I'd look at it this way
Flagship State U > Next Tier "State U" > City focused or directional state U

Every single school you mentioned takes a backseat to the primary state U in its state. They all do. K State is far below KU in fan following, Pudue to Indiana, Pitt to Penn State (and Temple even more so), ISU to Iowa, Ok State to OU, NC St. to UNC...all of them. There aren't any exceptions that I know of (CA situation is odd with Berkeley and UCLA both flagships, they split CA north/south). FSU and Clemson, as strong as they are, are still less popular than UF and USCe.

Many of those schools are grandfathered in, but each of them are limited compared to the potential of the flagships. So in looking at who to add, a conference should weigh that. Cinci, Houston, Memphis, UCF and USF are much more limited in potential appeal than UConn. Their ceiling is inherently lower.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Sort of. I'd look at it this way
Flagship State U > Next Tier "State U" > City focused or directional state U

Every single school you mentioned takes a backseat to the primary state U in its state. They all do. K State is far below KU in fan following, Pudue to Indiana, Pitt to Penn State (and Temple even more so), ISU to Iowa, Ok State to OU, NC St. to UNC...all of them. There aren't any exceptions that I know of (CA situation is odd with Berkeley and UCLA both flagships, they split CA north/south). FSU and Clemson, as strong as they are, are still less popular than UF and USCe.

Many of those schools are grandfathered in, but each of them are limited compared to the potential of the flagships. So in looking at who to add, a conference should weigh that. Cinci, Houston, Memphis, UCF and USF are much more limited in potential appeal than UConn. Their ceiling is inherently lower.

I know those schools I listed aren't first in their state, but they're all successful P5 schools. That's the point, just because they're secondary state schools doesn't mean they can't be successful in a P5 league.

 

[uconnell]

Which is why this video can't be posted enough. One of you twitteristas want to drop in a few Big 12 expansion conversations?

UConn =44,000 gorgeous acres.

 

[CL82]

done

Got a link? I'd be interested in seeing the comments.

 

[Husky25]

Got a link? I'd be interested in seeing the comments.

There are no comments. Just one two likes, so far.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

Re: BYU under title IX investigation.

Probably couldn't happen at worse time in terms of optics for the school.

Part of me makes it think that 2 is more likely than 4 if BYU is out of the mix as the drop off from BYU to a UCF or Memphis is steep.

Personally? Aside from UConn and Cincinnati, my ideal expansion would be those two plus USF and UCF. Who knows maybe we'll get UConn, Cincinnati, Houston and a Florida program.

 

[mrhandyman]

We need to show more cattle!

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Re: BYU under title IX investigation.

Probably couldn't happen at worse time in terms of optics for the school.

Part of me makes it think that 2 is more likely than 4 if BYU is out of the mix as the drop off from BYU to a UCF or Memphis is steep.

Personally? Aside from UConn and Cincinnati, my ideal expansion would be those two plus USF and UCF. Who knows maybe we'll get UConn, Cincinnati, Houston and a Florida program.

No BYU makes the prospect of 2 a lot more plausible. That being said, Bowlsby has already acknowledged the need to expand the Big 12's electronic footprint. BYU may have been #1 or 1a along with UConn. In theory, no BYU could mean that UConn is the clear-cut choice based on market and footprint. I know we're all biased but I can't imagine a 2 team addition of Cincy and Houston doing anything to benefit the conference.

 

[SubbaBub]

That was ESU (Eastern State University).

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

No BYU makes the prospect of 2 a lot more plausible. That being said, Bowlsby has already acknowledged the need to expand the Big 12's electronic footprint. BYU may have been #1 or 1a along with UConn. In theory, no BYU could mean that UConn is the clear-cut choice based on market and footprint. I know we're all biased but I can't imagine a 2 team addition of Cincy and Houston doing anything to benefit the conference.

Texas gets what Texas wants.

 

[UConnTrumbull]

Texas gets what Texas wants.

Yes, but I don't think the other 9 schools (esp TT, Baylor, TCU) want UH for a variety of reasons. To me, adding 4 equalizes a lot of tension. I do think that UH is a shoe-in b/c of Texan politics though, whether it's 2 or 4.

 

[sportsart]

We need to show more cattle!

 

[noeynox]

If everybody subscribed to this school of thought we'd live in a fantastically segregated society.

Were talking about particular religion practicing religion and requirements they make of followers of their Faith. They are no different than any other religion in the world in that respect.

If BYU was going into the homes of GLBT community and condemning them that would be a problem. If the government was allowing harrasment or making it a crime to be lgbt that would be a problem.

That's not what is happening there. BYU has an honor code that anyone wishing to attend is made aware of. If you take a look at it and it isn't for you, another university will gladly take your money and provide you an education. What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.

 

[amory]

What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.

I agree with you, but for purely selfish reasons I still hope they get left out because of this

 

[Matrim55]

If BYU was going into the homes of GLBT community and condemning them that would be a problem. If the government was allowing harrasment or making it a crime to be lgbt that would be a problem.

LDS church has, for decades, funded legislation that codifies exactly that. BYU is an extension of the church.

This isn't hard to parse.

 

[cttxus]

Were talking about particular religion practicing religion and requirements they make of followers of their Faith. They are no different than any other religion in the world in that respect.

If BYU was going into the homes of GLBT community and condemning them that would be a problem. If the government was allowing harrasment or making it a crime to be lgbt that would be a problem.

That's not what is happening there. BYU has an honor code that anyone wishing to attend is made aware of. If you take a look at it and it isn't for you, another university will gladly take your money and provide you an education. What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.

Very well said.

 

[CL82]

Were talking about particular religion practicing religion and requirements they make of followers of their Faith. They are no different than any other religion in the world in that respect.

If BYU was going into the homes of GLBT community and condemning them that would be a problem. If the government was allowing harrasment or making it a crime to be lgbt that would be a problem.

That's not what is happening there. BYU has an honor code that anyone wishing to attend is made aware of. If you take a look at it and it isn't for you, another university will gladly take your money and provide you an education. What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.

This thread is drifting toward Cesspool issues. That said, I think another poster nailed this one.

BYU is welcome to have any policy they like (unless they accept federal or state money.)
The Big 12 is welcome to decide what shared values they want members to have. Let's see what the outcome is, but Baylor may have unknowingly driven the last nail in BYU's chances to join the Big 12.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Were talking about particular religion practicing religion and requirements they make of followers of their Faith. They are no different than any other religion in the world in that respect.

If BYU was going into the homes of GLBT community and condemning them that would be a problem. If the government was allowing harrasment or making it a crime to be lgbt that would be a problem.

That's not what is happening there. BYU has an honor code that anyone wishing to attend is made aware of. If you take a look at it and it isn't for you, another university will gladly take your money and provide you an education. What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.

Actually, that's exactly what the Mormon church did. You choose the article you want to read from the publication you trust the most. Other religions aren't free of scrutiny on this issue but the Mormon church, and by extension BYU in my opinion, did exactly what you suggested they didn't.
Google

 

[UConnNick]

This thread is drifting toward Cesspool issues. That said, I think another poster nailed this one.

BYU is welcome to have any policy they like (unless they accept federal or state money.)
The Big 12 is welcome to decide what shared values they want members to have. Let's see what the outcome is, but Baylor may have unknowingly driven the last nail in BYU's chances to join the Big 12.

BYU does accept federal money. They're now under investigation for non compliance with federal Title IX law regarding the April rape reporting incident. 260 other schools are also under investigation, so it's not like it's a really big deal. They all end up deciding to change their policies and procedures in line with whatever the feds recommend. They won' t risk losing the federal funding on principle, if it comes down to that.

Whether all the negative press will derail their B12 candidacy remains to be seen, but if the networks really want them they'll be in. Who's got enough corresponding value to replace them? Only us, but that presupposes we are already on the outside looking in, which is possible but unlikely.