Commentary Thread for Premium Top-Shelf Tweets | Page 9 | The Boneyard

Commentary Thread for Premium Top-Shelf Tweets

More people posting comments in the Premium Top Shelf Tweets thread, Fishy is going to be busy throat punching.
 
Hi-Low said:
If it's only 2 my gut tells me Cincy & Houston....main reasons are perceptions of FB programs, geography & our potential flight risk....all work against us. Houston being solidly top 15 in all the pre-season FB polls really not helping either.
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You guys are conceding way too much. I think it will be a hard sell to Big 12 presents to take 2 city Schools, neither of whom dominate their home markets over a stage flagship that dominates their entire state and has some reach into surrounding states. And that is,better academically and has won at high levels athletics wise.

We will see. I believe nothing is close to being decided yet.
 
noeynox said:
You guys are conceding way too much. I think it will be a hard sell to Big 12 presents to take 2 city Schools, neither of whom dominate their home markets over a stage flagship that dominates their entire state and has some reach into surrounding states. And that is,better academically and has won at high levels athletics wise.

We will see. I believe nothing is close to being decided yet.
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What do schools being in a city have anything to do with them being unappealing?
 
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SubbaBub said:
I while ago I did a why XII shouldn't pick these schools in one line. This is the followup, why the XII should invite these schools in one line.

Cincy: decent FB, BB, market and close to WV.
Houston: makes Texas happy.
BYU: best available FB tradition even if there program isn't that much better than the others.
CSU: There might be people in CO that still care about XII football.
UCF: in florida.
USF: we are in FL, too.
ECU: We were in that movie with James Caan.
Memphis: we have a rich benefactor who hasnt actually donated all that much to the program.
Uconn: far and away the best athletic, academic, television friendly school currently under consideration.
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That was a bit self serving. A more neutral view.

Cincy: Solid FB, BB, market and close to WV. Midwestern school. Good academics.
Houston: makes Texas happy. Huge market to help defend it against SEC. Football tradition and recent success, decent BB history. Was in SWC.
BYU: best available FB tradition, solid BB, very strong fan base. Good academic rep.
CSU: Denver market, some football history. Midwestern culture fit. Closer travel. Decent academics.
UCF: Huge student body. Big Orlando market. Good football under O'Leary. Strong recruiting territory. decent academics.
USF: Big Tampa market. Strong recruiting territory. Ok academics.
ECU: Over-achieving football with good attendance.
Memphis: Good BB history, closer for travel, decent market
Uconn: Top shelf BB, some FB success in BE, State flagship, land-grant, strong market with good overall following, strong academics
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
What do schools being in a city have anything to do with them being unappealing?
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UT is in a city, it's not the location, it's the mission of the school. Large state schools, land grant especially, represent the entire state. City schools represent and serve the city they are in. They are inherently limited institutions, which will never have a fanbase or broad appeal that approaches that of their counterparts.

Thus:
Wichita State is below KU and K State
Houston is below UT and A&M
Memphis is below U Tenn
Louisville is below UK
Cinci is below Ohio State
UCF and USF are below Florida and FSU
 
HuskyHawk said:
UT is in a city, it's not the location, it's the mission of the school. Large state schools, land grant especially, represent the entire state. City schools represent and serve the city they are in. They are inherently limited institutions, which will never have a fanbase or broad appeal that approaches that of their counterparts.

Thus:
Wichita State is below KU and K State
Houston is below UT and A&M
Memphis is below U Tenn
Louisville is below UK
Cinci is below Ohio State
UCF and USF are below Florida and FSU
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Eh that's almost entirely perception. Does Ohio University represent Ohio more than Cincinnati? What about Texas State? Lincoln University is land grant, ever heard of it? How about the University of Idaho? Tennessee State? I can go on and on. Indiana isn't a land grant school and represents Indiana much more than Purdue (we'll leave Notre Dame out of this conversation they're a unique case.)
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
What do schools being in a city have anything to do with them being unappealing?
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Cincinnati will never be a pimple on Ohio States ass even if on equal footing in a P5 league. This was proven by their BCS appearances while in a BCS league. Houston didn't draw the top rating in their own market during a 13-1, season. City Schools like those cannot compare with the drawing power of a state flagship school all things being equal. I expect the big 12 presidents to understand this phenomenon based on public comments.
 
HuskyHawk said:
UT is in a city, it's not the location, it's the mission of the school. Large state schools, land grant especially, represent the entire state. City schools represent and serve the city they are in. They are inherently limited institutions, which will never have a fanbase or broad appeal that approaches that of their counterparts.

Thus:
Wichita State is below KU and K State
Houston is below UT and A&M
Memphis is below U Tenn
Louisville is below UK
Cinci is below Ohio State
UCF and USF are below Florida and FSU
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Thanks. Much better said than me.
 
noeynox said:
Cincinnati will never be a pimple on Ohio States ass even if on equal footing in a P5 league. This was proven by their BCS appearances while in a BCS league. Houston didn't draw the top rating in their own market during a 13-1, season. City Schools like those cannot compare with the drawing power of a state flagship school all things being equal. I expect the big 12 presidents to understand this phenomenon based on public comments.
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Your argument isn't against city schools, it's against secondary state schools. The same argument can be made about Pitt, Purdue, NC State, Kansas State, etc.

That said, your arguments for Houston aren't relevant if Texas wants them in bad enough. And Cincinnati, while I agree they don't hold a candle to OSU, still is a good enough candidate that others in the B12 would see them as a good fit. Cincinnati is the vanilla ice cream cone of Big 12 expansion. They're good at lots of things, great at nothing, but enough to satisfy everyone when all of the other candidates have one or more flaws in some capacity.
 
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noeynox said:
If your an LGBT community member why would you want to go there? There are tens of thousands of colleges and universities willing to take your money and not care about who or how you love. Why insist on being uncomfortable, making others uncomfortable and then complain when what you are complaining about is spelled out to you in their honor code before you go there.
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If everybody subscribed to this school of thought we'd live in a fantastically segregated society.
 
UConnTrumbull said:
Unrelated but has anyone ever seen the show Campus PD? They film at Univ of Cincinnati and, at the expense of sounding elitist, all those commuter schools look like absolute ass.
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Lol is that show on anymore? I love the episode with the UC kid who split his head open.
 
Slasher said:
Eh that's almost entirely perception. Does Ohio University represent Ohio more than Cincinnati? What about Texas State? Lincoln University is land grant, ever heard of it? How about the University of Idaho? Tennessee State? I can go on and on. Indiana isn't a land grant school and represents Indiana much more than Purdue (we'll leave Notre Dame out of this conversation they're a unique case.)
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Each situation is unique. Texas State is like Central Connecticut State. It's a much lower tier school. Same with Tennessee State. Some states name those schools for cities, as they do in MA.

Purdue is a peer of IU in the same way A&M is a peer of UT. Neither is named for a city or has an initial mission to serve a specific city, they are state wide institutions. Ohio U is fine, it just never embraced big time athletics. That was a choice.

By the way, perception is everything. People in Texas outside of Houston are not likely to embrace a school called "Houston" as compared with one called "Texas" or 'Texas A&M". Same with Memphis. People feel that their state U represents them, its why they get non alumni fans. Even within those who have a larger mission, KU has a much wider following in KS than K-State does. Iowa does vs. Iowa St. as well. City named public schools tend to have a small non-alumni following, especially outside of their city.
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
Your argument isn't against city schools, it's against secondary state schools. The same argument can be made about Pitt, Purdue, NC State, Kansas State, etc.

That said, your arguments for Houston aren't relevant if Texas wants them in bad enough. And Cincinnati, while I agree they don't hold a candle to OSU, still is a good enough candidate that others in the B12 would see them as a good fit. Cincinnati is the vanilla ice cream cone of Big 12 expansion. They're good at lots of things, great at nothing, but enough to satisfy everyone when all of the other candidates have one or more flaws in some capacity.
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Sort of. I'd look at it this way
Flagship State U > Next Tier "State U" > City focused or directional state U

Every single school you mentioned takes a backseat to the primary state U in its state. They all do. K State is far below KU in fan following, Pudue to Indiana, Pitt to Penn State (and Temple even more so), ISU to Iowa, Ok State to OU, NC St. to UNC...all of them. There aren't any exceptions that I know of (CA situation is odd with Berkeley and UCLA both flagships, they split CA north/south). FSU and Clemson, as strong as they are, are still less popular than UF and USCe.

Many of those schools are grandfathered in, but each of them are limited compared to the potential of the flagships. So in looking at who to add, a conference should weigh that. Cinci, Houston, Memphis, UCF and USF are much more limited in potential appeal than UConn. Their ceiling is inherently lower.
 
HuskyHawk said:
Sort of. I'd look at it this way
Flagship State U > Next Tier "State U" > City focused or directional state U

Every single school you mentioned takes a backseat to the primary state U in its state. They all do. K State is far below KU in fan following, Pudue to Indiana, Pitt to Penn State (and Temple even more so), ISU to Iowa, Ok State to OU, NC St. to UNC...all of them. There aren't any exceptions that I know of (CA situation is odd with Berkeley and UCLA both flagships, they split CA north/south). FSU and Clemson, as strong as they are, are still less popular than UF and USCe.

Many of those schools are grandfathered in, but each of them are limited compared to the potential of the flagships. So in looking at who to add, a conference should weigh that. Cinci, Houston, Memphis, UCF and USF are much more limited in potential appeal than UConn. Their ceiling is inherently lower.
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I know those schools I listed aren't first in their state, but they're all successful P5 schools. That's the point, just because they're secondary state schools doesn't mean they can't be successful in a P5 league.
 
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Re: BYU under title IX investigation.

Probably couldn't happen at worse time in terms of optics for the school.

Part of me makes it think that 2 is more likely than 4 if BYU is out of the mix as the drop off from BYU to a UCF or Memphis is steep.

Personally? Aside from UConn and Cincinnati, my ideal expansion would be those two plus USF and UCF. Who knows maybe we'll get UConn, Cincinnati, Houston and a Florida program.
 
ConnHuskBask said:
Re: BYU under title IX investigation.

Probably couldn't happen at worse time in terms of optics for the school.

Part of me makes it think that 2 is more likely than 4 if BYU is out of the mix as the drop off from BYU to a UCF or Memphis is steep.

Personally? Aside from UConn and Cincinnati, my ideal expansion would be those two plus USF and UCF. Who knows maybe we'll get UConn, Cincinnati, Houston and a Florida program.
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No BYU makes the prospect of 2 a lot more plausible. That being said, Bowlsby has already acknowledged the need to expand the Big 12's electronic footprint. BYU may have been #1 or 1a along with UConn. In theory, no BYU could mean that UConn is the clear-cut choice based on market and footprint. I know we're all biased but I can't imagine a 2 team addition of Cincy and Houston doing anything to benefit the conference.
 
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Husky25 said:
That was ESU (Eastern State University).
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Joke Son.jpeg
 
UConnTrumbull said:
No BYU makes the prospect of 2 a lot more plausible. That being said, Bowlsby has already acknowledged the need to expand the Big 12's electronic footprint. BYU may have been #1 or 1a along with UConn. In theory, no BYU could mean that UConn is the clear-cut choice based on market and footprint. I know we're all biased but I can't imagine a 2 team addition of Cincy and Houston doing anything to benefit the conference.
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Texas gets what Texas wants.
 
brasssbonanzaa said:
Texas gets what Texas wants.
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Yes, but I don't think the other 9 schools (esp TT, Baylor, TCU) want UH for a variety of reasons. To me, adding 4 equalizes a lot of tension. I do think that UH is a shoe-in b/c of Texan politics though, whether it's 2 or 4.
 
tykurez said:
If everybody subscribed to this school of thought we'd live in a fantastically segregated society.
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Were talking about particular religion practicing religion and requirements they make of followers of their Faith. They are no different than any other religion in the world in that respect.

If BYU was going into the homes of GLBT community and condemning them that would be a problem. If the government was allowing harrasment or making it a crime to be lgbt that would be a problem.

That's not what is happening there. BYU has an honor code that anyone wishing to attend is made aware of. If you take a look at it and it isn't for you, another university will gladly take your money and provide you an education. What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.
 
noeynox said:
What you have here is a group that wants BYU punished because they don't agree with the honor code. I see hypocrisy in that stance, but it will likely keep em out of the big 12.
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I agree with you, but for purely selfish reasons I still hope they get left out because of this
 
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