Why Cincinnati over UConn? Because they advertised and lobbied aggressively to put themselves out there. Took a page out of Louisville's playbook with an aggressive president and AD. We are not better than them financially. They have over a billion dollar endowment. No sitting back and waiting for a phone call. I believe geography is not an issue. One the plane is in the air, it makes no difference.
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- Thread starter SubbaBub
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Everything you posted is fair.
I think BYU's big12 candidacy is done over this, too much heat. But I do think this another example where not giving in to group think is used to ostracize. Your point about everyone knowing about the honor code before is a good one. If it's not agreeable to you don't go there. Instead it becomes because you have an,honor code we don't agree with and refused to change we want you to be punished.
Husky25
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Put your hand in your pocket and take out your wallet. The answer to your question is millions of that green papery cotton rectangles which reside within.
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Our athletic department dwarfs theirs. And I highly doubt that their "aggressiveness" is anything that puts them in a better position. Smaller schools like Memphis and UCF have been just as, if not more, aggressive than Cincy. It's likely not gonna make them more appealing.
HuskyHawk
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Geography matters. Not so much in travel time, but in that the Big XII very much views itself as a midwestern league. Ohio qualifies. Connecticut does not. As a guy who went to KU from CT, they referred to New England as "back east" along with NY/NJ. I had a professor try to draw an analogy by referencing the rules of hockey (as something nobody understood) then I coughed politely and he said...oh yeah, except that guy.
In our favor, they also very much favor big land grant universities, not urban schools. And we are the only one that fits. Unfortunately, I suspect that the average fan and even many writers, assume that UConn is stuck in some densely populated urban area, when it's in a smaller town than any school in the Big 12.
SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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They kicked out black athletes for having s ex with white women who comprise most of the BYU female stident body.
The rape victim thing is also true. They also kick people out for drinking caffeine and all sorts of other "Honor code violations". It wants to be both a fundementalist religious school, they call these madrases in other parts of the world, and be a mainstream participant in the NCAA. Something governed by title IX.
Opinions on the Mormon faith are irrelevant as is their mission as a promoter of that religion. In this country, a piblic institution is required to respect the rights of citizens.
We know return you to your FB and CR disccussion.
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BlueandOG
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They do have an enviable endowment, but they don't spend it on athletics. Here is an article about their "debt-ridden" athletic department.
ShakyTheMohel
Is it 11:11 yet?
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Let's not forget that because of the missions they are required to do, it isn't rare for a BYU football player to be a 25 yo married man playing against 18-21 year olds. Not exactly a level playing field. A lot of physical (and mental) development happens during those years.
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Well that's... not bad news, at least, right? We're still in the running!
I think our chances are still not great, but I'm glad we're at least doing all we can, given our geographical limitations.
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But they are private institution and as such can establish criteria/rules for membership i.e. their honor code.
If they dismissed black athletes for pre marital sexual relations while not doing the same to white athletes that is effed up. Nothing and I mean nothing pisses me off more than selective implementation of rules/laws. That the governors kid is cut a break on,his bag check in while you or I get stripped to our underware is BS.
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FWIW
Earlier today I met with a very high placed person at UConn. Of course I asked about the CR status and was told that everyone in Herbst administration is being VERY tight lipped. Not surprisingly, I confirmed that we are indeed being vetted, and that NDAs have been signed.
I was told that while the outcome is still unknown (obviously), we are doing (and have been doing) "all the right tings". Which is definitely NOT what we were doing the last time around.
I also expressed my personal concern that while we may score well on the objective metrics, there is no way to analyze/evaluate the political angle and that I was worried about the talk of Texas governor involvement, etc. I was told that I'd be surprised to know who has been advocating on behalf of UConn and it's not just the current Governor. I wasn't told names, but the infernece was "former high ranking politicians".
The net-net of the discussion was that while we may not be certain how this will shake out, we can be certain that unlike last time, we are clearly doing this the right way and putting a full court press on -- despite what you may or may not hear in public.
Earlier today I met with a very high placed person at UConn. Of course I asked about the CR status and was told that everyone in Herbst administration is being VERY tight lipped. Not surprisingly, I confirmed that we are indeed being vetted, and that NDAs have been signed.
I was told that while the outcome is still unknown (obviously), we are doing (and have been doing) "all the right tings". Which is definitely NOT what we were doing the last time around.
I also expressed my personal concern that while we may score well on the objective metrics, there is no way to analyze/evaluate the political angle and that I was worried about the talk of Texas governor involvement, etc. I was told that I'd be surprised to know who has been advocating on behalf of UConn and it's not just the current Governor. I wasn't told names, but the infernece was "former high ranking politicians".
The net-net of the discussion was that while we may not be certain how this will shake out, we can be certain that unlike last time, we are clearly doing this the right way and putting a full court press on -- despite what you may or may not hear in public.
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Except in this case, where you've repeatedly implied that you think discrimination against LGBTQ folks is a-ok.
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It's clear Susan and co. have been doing everything the past few years to put UConn in the best position possible when expansion came back on the table...regardless of which conference is looking to expand. But it's always good to hear confirmation of this.
I'm also proud that UConn is doing this behind closed doors. It's utterly embarrassing watching the other AAC schools publicly beg for an invite while they're still being paid by another conference.
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John Rowland? Say what you want about the man, but my guess is he speaks the same language of $ome tho$e in Texa$.......I kid, I kid, sort of.
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It has exactly zero to do with it . . . is, and always was considered to be the safe choice.
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I agree, the unsettling part of this is that unlike in the ACC situation, there's a lot more factors out of our control here such as our geography in comparison to Houston's, Texas's singular influence over the entire conference, and this apparent BYU stuff. My gut is telling me that if BYU is nixed over the honor code stuff, the B12 is more likely to stick at two. If they stick at two and everyone else agrees Cincinnati is team 11, Texas can wield their sword on pushing Houston as 12 for their own reasons, and there'd be no further incentive to go to 14. In that scenario, it wouldn't matter if every high-ranking politician in the world were advocating for UConn, Texas does what Texas wants.
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CL82
James Breeding sucks
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Which is why this video can't be posted enough. One of you twitteristas want to drop in a few Big 12 expansion conversations?
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Misrepresentation on your part. Not surprised though. It's the old if your don't fall in line and think how we think you are part of the problem routine. We know BYU is a religious school governed in part by their belief in old outdated doctrines. The majority of the people that choose to go there obviously don't have an issue with it.
If your an LGBT community member why would you want to go there? There are tens of thousands of colleges and universities willing to take your money and not care about who or how you love. Why insist on being uncomfortable, making others uncomfortable and then complain when what you are complaining about is spelled out to you in their honor code before you go there.
Because of this a group of people believe they should be excluded from an athletic conference. I never once heard or saw a letter advocating they be dismissed from the MWC because of their honor code.
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Likely everyone doesn't agree Cincinnati is 11.
HuskyHawk
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That's not what he's said. LDS has religious beliefs that homosexual activity is a sin. So does the Catholic church and other religions. Those beliefs are protected by the First Amendment, and cannot be simply discarded as "discrimination".
It is important to note that the religious objection is to behavior, not to the individual. It's a distinction often glossed over.
Anyway, none of this belongs here except to note that in BYU's case, their position, which they have a right to hold, may make some in the Big 12 uncomfortable. That's all that matters for our purposes here.
CL82
James Breeding sucks
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SubbaBub
Your stupidity is ruining my country.
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I while ago I did a why XII shouldn't pick these schools in one line. This is the followup, why the XII should invite these schools in one line.
Cincy: decent FB, BB, market and close to WV.
Houston: makes Texas happy.
BYU: best available FB tradition even if there program isn't that much better than the others.
CSU: There might be people in CO that still care about XII football.
UCF: in florida.
USF: we are in FL, too.
ECU: We were in that movie with James Caan.
Memphis: we have a rich benefactor who hasnt actually donated all that much to the program.
Uconn: far and away the best athletic, academic, television friendly school currently under consideration.
Cincy: decent FB, BB, market and close to WV.
Houston: makes Texas happy.
BYU: best available FB tradition even if there program isn't that much better than the others.
CSU: There might be people in CO that still care about XII football.
UCF: in florida.
USF: we are in FL, too.
ECU: We were in that movie with James Caan.
Memphis: we have a rich benefactor who hasnt actually donated all that much to the program.
Uconn: far and away the best athletic, academic, television friendly school currently under consideration.
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I can't believe that nobody in the horde (Boneyard) saw these B12 officials on campus last week...I know they wouldn't be prancing around campus with B12 hats on but usually we'd have a little birdy taking summer classes or other athletes working out noticing something...hope they liked the Shenk, Gample, new bball practice facility and rest of campus...also hope someone showed them lots of blueprints and future renderings of what will start to be built as soon as we sign on B12 dotted line.
This is the way anyone logically thinking sees it. UConn/Cincy and lets be done with all this.
Rico444
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I don't think money is what Slick Willy's asking from Suzie.
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I disagree. I would be shocked beyond belief if we were included OVER Cincinnati. They're not perfect, but check off enough boxes to make it a swallowable pill for all members. Programs are good enough, good recruiting area, have enough success in football and basketball, decent-size fanbase, travel is easy, pro venue usable for big football games, TV networks would be fine with their inclusion. This has nothing to do with Santa Ono's Twitter habits, it's just the fact that their profile fits the current situation well.
Yes, we check off some of those boxes too, but our recent football performance and the distance from most schools hinder us too much to be taken OVER UC. To be taken as 11/12 WITH UC, that's another story - but that's where Texas's supposedly fierce support of Houston becomes a major problem.
Some of the sentiments I've seen on here over the past week or two wondering how in the world the B12 could pass us up because we're the second coming of Jesus are very misguided. Yes, we're a strong program and brand with national appeal and more overall success than any of these candidates. Yes, we have no business being in a conference with Tulane, Tulsa, Temple, and SMU. Yes, we're more successful and have more brand appeal than all of the other candidates save BYU. But we can't forget that our football program has been at best subpar for the last five seasons, there's the incorrect but still apparent perception that we do not travel well for football, and we culturally and geographically are an awkward fit for the B12. Let's face it, on the surface UConn is not a typical B12 schools outside of being a state land-grant university. The Big 12 is not a New England league. The Big 12 has never been a league that places importance on major basketball success. The Big 12 has never been a league that was overly concerned with being in major media markets. UConn is NOT a can't-miss addition to the Big 12 from THEIR perspective. Unfortunately, in this game that's all that matters.
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If it's only 2 my gut tells me Cincy & Houston....main reasons are perceptions of FB programs, geography & our potential for flight risk....all work against us. Houston being solidly top 15 in all the pre-season FB polls really not helping either.
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My 1st thought was Joe Lieberman/Chris Dodd. They certainly are well-connected, but who knows what influence they carry.
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