Colorado in Big XII

[hoopsfan22]

By that measure though, what's the market saying UConn's worth? We've been the most obvious non-P5-but-should-be-P5 school for a decade plus but somehow we're always without a chair when the music stops

Maybe we're just not as attractive or valuable as we think we are?

 

[noeynox]

I wanted the PAC to get paid, which I was clear about, because that was good for UConn. That didn't happen, and the Pac 12 is dead, and it knows it.

Streaming is the future. This is not exactly going out on a limb. Do you still have a cable box?

The market may occasionally be wrong, but it doesn't lie, and there is usually not much point in arguing with it. The market just told the Pac 12 "no". That said, Colorado, arguably one of the middle of the pack members in terms of value, just got a great deal from ESPN/Big 12. At some point we will get to the teams in the Pac 12 that the market was not willing to pay for. Some of them have to be ASU, UA and/or Utah.

You have to have someone competent leading your negotiations. They screwed the pooch with this commissioner.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

The Big10 has gone to division-less scheduling. What’s the point of bringing in USC if they don’t play OSU, PSU or Michigan on a regular basis? If they go to 20, that leaves 1 crossover and so much money in the table. USC (and Oregon) need to be playing the big 3 in the East as much as possible to give the TV partners the best possible matchups.

True. How long do you think a school like USC will bitch about traveling across the country regularly? I do agree TV contracts are about the best matchups.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

You have to have someone competent leading your negotiations. They screwed the pooch with this commissioner.

Maybe he was that bad. Maybe he was just dealt a bad hand. He is a league commissioner with limited power, so I wouldn't dump all the problems with the Pac 12 at his feet. Sometimes the market value just is what it is.

 

[hoopsfan22]

True. How long do you think a school like USC will bitch about traveling across the country regularly? I do agree TV contracts are about the best matchups.

I don't think it will be that bad. Most of the B1G schools are in the middle of the country anyway which won't be that much longer of a flight than it is to Washington or Colorado from LA. The trips to Penn State, Rutgers, and Maryland will be long, but if you stagger things, they might only have to go to those schools once every 3-4 years. They'll have four conference road games a year (every other year one of them will be up the road at UCLA), and you could schedule back to back road games to make it just two trips a season. In late September do a road trip to Penn State one week, then play Minnesota or Iowa the next week on the way back west. Early November have another trip to say Michigan and then play Illinois or Nebraska on the way back.

 

[noeynox]

Maybe he was that bad. Maybe he was just dealt a bad hand. He is a league commissioner with limited power, so I wouldn't dump all the problems with the Pac 12 at his feet. Sometimes the market value just is what it is.

I cannot believe that properties like Stanford, Washington, Cal and Oregon were not worth more than what was left of the Big12 + BYU, Cincinnati, UCF and Houston. Yormark cut the line on his ass and outmaneuvered him. The PAC presidents were all high and mighty publicly dismissing associating with Big12 schools. There are no 2 ways about this. They hired themselves a Dan Bebee.

 

[noeynox]

Maybe he was that bad. Maybe he was just dealt a bad hand. He is a league commissioner with limited power, so I wouldn't dump all the problems with the Pac 12 at his feet. Sometimes the market value just is what it is.

He is so bad, i wouldn't be shocked if the remaining PAC schools stay together and fire him.

 

[Rufus]

Part of market value includes who is going to play the team in any given market.

Maryland had more value in the B1G then it had in the ACC. Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. now had a presence in the DC market.

Rutgers had more value in the B1G than it had in the old Big East or even the current ACC. Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, etc. now had a presence in the NYC market.

There are plenty of USC and UCLA alumni in NYC and DC. The average sports fan laughs at the thought of USC and UCLA having to travel to Maryland and Rutgers for conference games, but I promise you the school administration isn't laughing. They see dollar signs with the alumni donor events that will take place in NYC and DC when USC and UCLA travel to Rutgers and Maryland.

The same thought process applies to Stanford and Cal. The PAC-12 is in no position to take advantage of the San Francisco market, but the B1G can. Stanford and Cal might not bring much to the table in football (sometimes Stanford does) or basketball, but they bring a lot to the table outside of that in addition to academics. The only question is if SF is in the B1G's plans or not.

The B1G will either add 2 or 4 more western teams. It will either be: Oregon and Washington; Stanford and Cal; or all 4. I don't know which is the most advantageous move here for the conference. What I do know is that top priority should be given to getting into the recruiting rich states of Florida and Georgia as soon as possible, while knowing at least 2 more western teams are needed here.

The Big 12 - on the brink of death - has leadership in place that not only allowed the conference to rise from the dead, it also has all but assured itself as the #3 conference when this has all played out. What an outstanding show of leadership.

 

[tzznandrew]

Why in the world would the B1G want Cal sports when Cal doesn't even want Cal sports?

I know we joke about that elsewhere about Stanford and (in particular) Cal, but both have very well rounded athletic departments. They're just not successful in the ones that make money. I think a conference like the B1G—particularly with UCLA&USC there, and Washington & Oregon probably there—is a natural fit. Cal and Stanford bring prestige and well-roundedness, while also bringing football losers to pad the records of some other schools.

Don't know that it will happen, but I find it relatively hard to believe that Stanford—which consistently has the most well-rounded AD—would be left in the cold, and I also think six west-coast school is a good balance to make sure there isn't too much travel.

 

[dayooper]

True. How long do you think a school like USC will bitch about traveling across the country regularly? I do agree TV contracts are about the best matchups.

I think they will play UCLA (and Washington/Oregon if they get in) every year. UCLA is already USC’s protected rival.

For non revenue sports, they gave some ideas on who to deal with the travel.

 

[noeynox]

Literally lmao right now. Altimore is suggesting the PAC replace that trainwreck of a commish with Aresco which i jokingly proposes earlier.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Agreed. There is NO WAY in hell schools like Stanford and CAL don't find a home. Just watch, B1G will add Oregon, Washington, Cal, and Stanford. Those 6 schools will complete the B1G's Western division.

And....(because I've been saying that is quite possible), what does that mean for the ACC? It means it isn't losing anybody and will probably raid the Big XII in 2-3 years, which allows them to renegotiate the contract. There are going to be 4 "P" conferences and a fairly strong MWC. Yes, two will be at the top of the heap, it is what it is.

 

[tzznandrew]

If Cal's base has all this financial firepower why have they kept the powder dry all these years playing against teams they are actually rivals with?

As if playing Iowa and SUNJ is going to suddenly make them care?

I think them not playing Washington, Oregon, UCLA and USC might make them care. A six (or seven if they took one of the two AAU Arizona schools) team pod out West keeps a status quo that slumming it with SDSU, UNLV and Boise doesn't.

 

[tiger paw]

UC fate in the hands of the PAC-12 + it's TV deal. IF it' $$ are too low teams will bolt. Washington + Oregon desire the BIG10. The B12 top choices are 1. Utah 2. Arizona 3. AZ ST. 4 UConn. Best hope is for PAC 12 teams to stay with a revised league. If they leave, UC too far down the list for an invite.

 

[Tyler2Rings]

Part of market value includes who is going to play the team in any given market.

Good point. Would the Big 12 rather have:

• 30 games in the Mtn/Pac time zone and 18 games in the Eastern OR
• 24 games in Mtn/Pac and 24 games in the Eastern

 

[TRest]

Good point. Would the Big 12 rather have:

• 30 games in the Mtn/Pac time zone and 18 games in the Eastern OR
• 24 games in Mtn/Pac and 24 games in the Eastern

One of the primary reasons why the P12 cant get a great new tv contract is all the Pacific time zone games. Half the country's eyeballs are asleep.

 

[huskidork]

I think we land in the Big 12 either way, it's either we're the 4th team added with both Arizona schools, or the PAC 9 adds SDSU and maybe 2 others they stabilize for abit longer, and UConn is added along side Colorado.

 

[shizzle787]

Last thing we need the B1G swooping in causing more chaos. I just hope we find a home before they starting to make their moves.

How Colorado, Big 12 aggression could force Tony Petitti's hand with B1G expansion

Roughly a half hour before word leaked Wednesday of Colorado ramping up discussions for a return to the Big 12, Tony Petitti settled in for his final interview of the day.

www.on3.com

A pauper doesn't force the hand of a royal.

 

[Rufus]

Here is a timeline for Colorado:

Everything that led up to Colorado moving back to the Big 12

Take a look back at everything that transpired over the past year-plus leading up to Colorado’s Pac-12 departure

coloradobuffaloeswire.usatoday.com

 

[cuppy]

I think them not playing Washington, Oregon, UCLA and USC might make them care. A six (or seven if they took one of the two AAU Arizona schools) team pod out West keeps a status quo that slumming it with SDSU, UNLV and Boise doesn't.

This is good. Big 10 grabs Oregon, Washington. They can bring along Oregon st and wsu. Then cal and Stanford for the prestige and break into norcal. From there you gotta look to the southwest, they’re growing too fast to ignore, take zona and they bring along asu, maybe pry away Utah and Colorado for the mountain west, that gives you a nice 12 team group, call it the “Pacific Pod”

Then you figure they have to look east. Grab the big Florida schools (fsu, Miami), Clemson. UVA brings prestige, they bring along va tech. Unc obviously, they bring along nc state and duke (and don’t sleep on wake). Ga tech gets you Atlanta, give them a southern partner with Louisville. Then you can start north with cuse, Pitt - I know this is gonna sound crazy but bc could be a sleeping giant. That’s a nice geographic group, call it the “Atlantic Pod.”

After that, grab a few Texas schools, ok state to block the sec, Iowa state, Kansas, of course, who brings ksu along. Maybe cinci and wvu, not great markets but they’re traditional powers, and ucf is a stretch but they could turn into something. That’s a new southern pod, add that to your Midwest pod.

For rivalries and travel you only play teams in your own pod, each pod plays a separate conference title game/bball tourney. Maybe the Atlantic Pod could get msg! If not I’m sure Greensboro is available. That’s a pretty solid 52-team conference. From there we just have to hope notre dame joins and needs a partner to get to an even 54.

 

[McLovin]

Unfortunately, it's because of UConn and the rest of the BE that Cincy was able to get a golden ticket and we are still stuck in purgatory. If we left them in C-USA, they wouldn't have had the stage to grow their programs. Then they wouldn't have come along to the AAC, yet they probably would have been added. All of this growth, and they deserve tons of credit for pulling off successful football hire after successful football hire, was started by us and the rest of the BE bringing them in when BC, Syracuse, and Pitt all left.

Same could be said about Louisville. They would be Memphis 2.0 if the Big East didn’t lift them out of CUSA in 2005.

 

[Drew]

The PAC's problem is that per capita there aren't a number of good schools out there with fanbases, and they have Stanford & Cal who care a lot about the academics. Basically not a lot of schools worth adding, and the schools worth adding came with issues that Stanford & Cal couldn't swallow.

Could’ve just stopped here. 100% agree- the amount of “snobbery” is absurd related to PAC12 expansion.

They could’ve (maybe should’ve) easily added Boise, BYU, SDSU, and another years ago. Could’ve made a strategic move into the Central time zone. Instead, it’s all hung up on academics and snobbery.

Boise
Fresno
San Diego State

Would all be great adds to the PAC from a pure football perspective. They’re teams that actually care and have good history at the FBS level of success. Instead they will do nothing. They’re doing it to themselves.

 

[djct1999]

I wanted the PAC to get paid, which I was clear about, because that was good for UConn. That didn't happen, and the Pac 12 is dead, and it knows it.

Streaming is the future. This is not exactly going out on a limb. Do you still have a cable box?

The market may occasionally be wrong, but it doesn't lie, and there is usually not much point in arguing with it. The market just told the Pac 12 "no". That said, Colorado, arguably one of the middle of the pack members in terms of value, just got a great deal from ESPN/Big 12. At some point we will get to the teams in the Pac 12 that the market was not willing to pay for. Some of them have to be ASU, UA and/or Utah.

Streaming is the future but I doubt it will pay schools in the pac 12 what linear used to.

 

[DFW HOYA]

An interesting comment by Brett McMurphy suggests that per the Big 12 agreement, Fox does not have to pay a full share of TV revenues to new members, but Fox has agreed to do so if the new school is already in the P5.

 

[tzznandrew]

Could’ve just stopped here. 100% agree- the amount of “snobbery” is absurd related to PAC12 expansion.

They could’ve (maybe should’ve) easily added Boise, BYU, SDSU, and another years ago. Could’ve made a strategic move into the Central time zone. Instead, it’s all hung up on academics and snobbery.

Boise
Fresno
San Diego State

Would all be great adds to the PAC from a pure football perspective. They’re teams that actually care and have good history at the FBS level of success. Instead they will do nothing. They’re doing it to themselves.

None of those three schools add too much, in all honesty. Pretty mid other than one strong run from Boise a while back. Winning programs on the whole, but not exceptional.

The snobbery hurt, but the solution was more schools in central and midwestern timezones for the PAC.