Colorado in Big XII | Page 8 | The Boneyard

Colorado in Big XII

Utah has 5 tournament appearances in the last 20 years. Their one championship was EIGHTY YEARS AGO, during a global war where virtually every able bodied male between 18 and 25 was off saving the world. Are you really going to beat a drum for Utah's 1944 Championship?

BYU is greater than Utah by every metric. Utah is to BYU what San Diego State is to UCLA. They are nearby, but one is a national university with a big following, and one just happens to have a good location.

Utah...in football has gone 12-0 and 13-0 and went on to beat 12-2 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. Last season they beat 11 win Sourherrn Cal, twice.

In the last four seasons, Utah as had an 11 win season and two 10 win seasons...in the last 9 seasons (discounting 2020)....Utah has won 9 or more games in 7 of them.

A basketball conference will compare on basketball metrics, but football prowess will weigh in as well.
 
Utah...in football has gone 12-0 and 13-0 and went on to beat 12-2 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. Last season they beat 11 win Sourherrn Cal, twice.

In the last four seasons, Utah as had an 11 win season and two 10 win seasons...in the last 9 seasons (discounting 2020)....Utah has won 9 or more games in 7 of them.

A basketball conference will compare on basketball metrics, but football prowess will weigh in as well.
So in recent history they have as many national championships in football as UConn does?
 
Utah...in football has gone 12-0 and 13-0 and went on to beat 12-2 Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. Last season they beat 11 win Sourherrn Cal, twice.

In the last four seasons, Utah as had an 11 win season and two 10 win seasons...in the last 9 seasons (discounting 2020)....Utah has won 9 or more games in 7 of them.

A basketball conference will compare on basketball metrics, but football prowess will weigh in as well.
They have been above average since 2003. Very good, but not great. They've also put those numbers up in weak conferences.
 
Mora will be here as long as the commitment to football is there and a path to P5. If we get into the Big XII, watch us take off and surprise people
I think we could very well surprise people this upcoming season.
 
Nope. I actually like Utah, and have spent a fair amount of time there over the years. That market can realistically support one major conference program, and BYU is that program.
Utah is the most beautiful state in the US if one is into that sort of stuff.
 
.-.
Why? Kansas, Oklahoma, Iowa etc. all support two P5 programs and none of them have the built in audience of a religious following.

I don't like the idea of Utah but in the spirit of arguing over meaningless stuff, let's have at it.

Few things more Boneyard than UConn fans arguing why barely P5 programs deserve to be in a P5 conference before UConn.

Washington and Oregon had 2 P5 programs, although that may soon end.
 
It shouldn’t matter what State the school is from or what conference the school is from. Utah built their program the right way coming up through the MWC. They abused Alabama in a BCS bowl and then earned a PAC 12 invite.

I actually really like their style of play. The idea that they could get a reversal of fortune because of this is why I really just sort of hate the way college sports is now.
 
Few things more Boneyard than UConn fans arguing why barely P5 programs deserve to be in a P5 conference before UConn.

Washington and Oregon had 2 P5 programs, although that may soon end.

So, in other words you just made it up based on nothing.

Got it.
 
Why? Historically BYU has been the better FB/sports brand. BYU had some awesome Heisman winning QBs.

I think it’s dumb to give that much credit over ancient history. Ty Detmer must be in his 50s. Plus BYU routinely has like 24 year old sophomores or something like that.

Utah is the better program.
 
.-.
I think it’s dumb to give that much credit over ancient history. Ty Detmer must be in his 50s. Plus BYU routinely has like 24 year old sophomores or something like that.

Utah is the better program.
I'm relatively certain that, in a world where there was a do-over draft, the B12 would take Utah over BYU every single time.

I'm not sure they want both schools for a variety of reasons, but as much as I've been knocking them relative to UConn, Utah is a good program.
 
I'm relatively certain that, in a world where there was a do-over draft, the B12 would take Utah over BYU every single time.

I'm not sure they want both schools for a variety of reasons, but as much as I've been knocking them relative to UConn, Utah is a good program.

We should have a thread with a do over draft and figure out which current P5s would be left hanging.
 
We should have a thread with a do over draft and figure out which current P5s would be left hanging.
I mean, there are some clear ones that would be out: Wake being most prominent I think. It's a good but small school only in the ACC because of history. Every other school—even the Vandys, Northwesterns, and BCs makes some sense. Even ****ing Louisville makes some sense. They might not be in a P5 in a current redraft, but there is logic for them being there.

Wake, on the other hand...
 
I mean, there are some clear ones that would be out: Wake being most prominent I think. It's a good but small school only in the ACC because of history. Every other school—even the Vandys, Northwesterns, and BCs makes some sense. Even ****ing Louisville makes some sense. They might not be in a P5 in a current redraft, but there is logic for them being there.

Wake, on the other hand...

“THE NEC WELCOMES BC TO THE CONFERENCE!!!!!”
 
I mean, there are some clear ones that would be out: Wake being most prominent I think. It's a good but small school only in the ACC because of history. Every other school—even the Vandys, Northwesterns, and BCs makes some sense. Even ****ing Louisville makes some sense. They might not be in a P5 in a current redraft, but there is logic for them being there.

Wake, on the other hand...
I thought Vanderbilt in the SEC and Northwestern in the BIG were primarily included to prevent the types of investigations of those conferences if there were only public universities in a conference.
 
.-.
I thought Vanderbilt in the SEC and Northwestern in the BIG were primarily included to prevent the types of investigations of those conferences if there were only public universities in a conference.
The two schools you mentioned were members of their respective conferences long before the idea of needing schools for the purpose you mentioned ever existed.
 
I think it’s dumb to give that much credit over ancient history. Ty Detmer must be in his 50s. Plus BYU routinely has like 24 year old sophomores or something like that.

Utah is the better program.
Eh, i think an argument could be made that BYU ONLY fell off cause they were excluded from the original BCS. UConn fans better than most should understand what huge downgrade that is.
 
I thought Vanderbilt in the SEC and Northwestern in the BIG were primarily included to prevent the types of investigations of those conferences if there were only public universities in a conference.
Northwestern was a founding member of the Big10 (formed in 1896), a little before the need to avoid FOIA. Since USC is a private university, there will be 2 private schools in the Big10 (if you don’t count affiliate members Johns Hopkins and Notre Dame).
 
BC is only attractive because of their location and nothing else. They have no interest in actually winning anything other than hockey championships.
 
i believe this as well, but i do wonder how much runway he has personally, to continue this difficult work as an independent. The good thing is that this is pretty much a zero-pressure job for him. We're grateful for whatever comes out of this turnaround, given where we are and where we're coming from. He would have a much shorter leash, pretty much anywhere else in the country. And at his age, why willingly put yourself through that stress? you have nothing to prove to anyone.

my other concern was $$ for staff - not even for him. i suspect he's good on the money, so that's not his personal driver. But you can't say the same for coordinators and younger staff, who are fresh up/comers for whom money is a massive driver. P5 money answered that concern for recruiting coaching talent. Retaining is not so much a concern, because assistant coaches come and go for career reasons. But it's the NEXT guy who you need to worry about convincing. So - indirectly, $$ matters to him, albeit not for personal gain.

what a complicated equation.

all that to say, I agree deep down that he's a keeper. but you never know.
So long as the school keeps investing in the program he'll be down for whatever, as the kids say.

What I do wonder about though is if we end up taking the B12 cheese, how will he handle the step up in recruiting and will UCONN adequately support that level of pursuit? That's all for another day though.
 
Eh, i think an argument could be made that BYU ONLY fell off cause they were excluded from the original BCS. UConn fans better than most should understand what huge downgrade that is.
didn't they suspend an important basketball player for having consensual sex with his girlfriend? I feel like that sort of thing probably doesn't help...
 
.-.
didn't they suspend an important basketball player for having consensual sex with his girlfriend? I feel like that sort of thing probably doesn't help...
help with what? I'm sorry that don't follow your rules.
 
For the Big 12, I think it comes down to ASU, Arizona, Utah and UConn for 1 or 3 spots. Pros and cons:

UConn:

Pros:

Athletics - best basketball program of the last 25 years, best women's basketball program in history, solid to excellent in almost all other sports.
Market - Large (3.5 million) wealthy market that extends beyond Connecticut borders
Local competition for eyeballs: UConn's fanbase extends beyond UConn alumni since UConn is the only state school with big time athletics in New York/New England. Connecticut will never have a major professional franchise in any of the three major sports, so there is limited local competition for sports entertainment dollars.
Academics - UConn is way ahead of the rest of the candidates academically.
Wildcard - Proximity to the media and financial capital of the world. Not taking UConn is writing off the northeast for the Big 12, forever.

Cons:

Athletics - Football team was competitive when it was in a major conference, but has sucked the last 10 years or so.
Market - state is not growing and is aging.
Wildcard - distance to other schools

Arizona:

Pros:

Athletics - Basketball is pretty good, but by no means dominant. No natural recruiting base for hoops now that UCLA and USC are in Big 10.
Market - Tucson is not that big, although it is fast growing.
Academics - Arizona is not top 100 academically.
Wildcard - Arizona is "hot" both literally and figuratively

Cons:

Athletics - Football sucks and has had some good coaches that were unable to win in Arizona. Heat may be a problem for recruiting.
Market - Arizona is getting close to the limit of human inhabitability in terms of heat, and is running out of water. Those are not opinions, they are facts. It is not a wealthy state (one of 10 poorest in country), making it less appealing to advertisers and creating uncertainty about how many people would pay for streaming. There are also a lot of the residents that are old transplants who already have a favorite team and are unlikely to switch.
Local Competition - Successful pro franchises two hours away in all three major sports.
Wildcard - Already being in a P5 conference seems to carry some weight

Arizona State

Pros:

Athletics - There is a picture of the Arizona State logo next to "above average" in the dictionary. They are OK in hoops and football, but not particularly exceptional in either, going back decades.
Market - Phoenix is one of the biggest (4.4MM) and fastest growing metro areas in the country, although environmental issues (heat and water) may be changing that. Maricopa county is massive geographically, about 2.5x the size of Connecticut geographically. Going to an Arizona State basketball game is not like driving from Fairfield to the XL Center.
Wildcard - Already being in a P5 conference seems to carry some weight

Cons:

Athletics - mediocre
Market - same issues as Arizona, and two schools are splitting the market
Local Competition - Successful pro franchises in all three major sports.

Utah:

Pros:

Athletics - Football is excellent, although it is hard to tell how much of that is Utah and how much is Kyle Whittingham.
Market - Market is not huge at 3.27 million in the whole state of Utah. It is a fast growing state.
Local Competition - successful local NBA team, but no NFL or MLB franchises
Academics - OK in STEM, below average in everything else. Barely top 100.
Wildcard - Already being in a P5 conference seems to carry some weight

Cons:

Athletics - Basketball has kind of sucked since Majerus left, which raises issues about what happens after Whittingham.
Market - Not a rich market, and BYU will always be the #1 option in this state.



When you spreadsheet it, UConn should win on almost every dimension but the fact that we are not already in a P5 conference.
This is your lane! Great stuff!
 
I'd suggest that it's probably harder to recruit when the university doesn't let you freely sleep with your partner. The other schools can blame it on a coach that is gone and say it won't happen again. For BYU, if you go to the school right now, and you are caught violating their honor code (i.e. freely having consensual sex) you may be off the team.

If you have a few offers that are roughly equal, why the hell would you do that?
The code hasn't changed though, so how would that be part of their downfall?
 
I'd suggest that it's probably harder to recruit when the university doesn't let you freely sleep with your partner. The other schools can blame it on a coach that is gone and say it won't happen again. For BYU, if you go to the school right now, and you are caught violating their honor code (i.e. freely having consensual sex) you may be off the team.

If you have a few offers that are roughly equal, why the hell would you do that?
you talk like this is a new issue
 
So, in other words you just made it up based on nothing.

Got it.

In other words, you are just trolling me to try to get me to repeat something I have already posted which you are actually responding to.

UConn is not in the ACC because a small private school in Boston promised it would deliver all of New England. Then the ACC doubled down on that ridiculous assertion by adding a mid-sized private school from a dead industrial city in central New York with the hope it would bring New York City.

As overly optimistic as the expectation that BCU could deliver New England or that Syracuse could deliver New York are (and therefore UConn would not be necessary for the ACC), it is a valid way to look at the incremental value of a school. If the Big 12 just added the Utah market by adding BYU, how many incremental fans does it get in Utah that it doesn't already get with BYU? If the Big 12 gets the state of Arizona by adding U of A, how many incremental fans does it get by adding ASU? UConn is a market that the Big 12 is nowhere near, and we get attention throughout the northeast. Even if we have to fight it out with two weak programs like BCU and Syracuse for fans, we are fighting it out over a massive northeastern market. If Utah is fighting it out with BYU over the Utah market, the market is not that big, and the Big 12 would be fighting with itself for share.

Did anyone at UConn study competitive strategy or Game Theory? I skipped a lot of classes, but I am pretty sure I was not the only one in the hall at Monteith when the professor went over how to evaluate competitive positioning.
 
.-.

Forum statistics

Threads
168,359
Messages
4,567,286
Members
10,469
Latest member
xxBlueChips


Top Bottom