Coaching hot seats

[LETTERL]

That explains why Yale's class of Soph-Sr are so good. Hoover has had a long a leash at WF so if she is finally turning it around, good for her. Now that said, an unbiased observer, someone who is agnostic to a coach's pedigree, abilities as a player would say, her W/L record, her having the lowest attendance in the ACC last year and one of the 3 lowest in the last 5 years (every year of these 5 she was second to last or 3rd to last-ahead of Clemson and BC at the time who have since vaulted past her), if her contract is up this year, I might pull the trigger, obviously if she has more years left, she gets that time. What would be a great boon to her would be a nice run in the WNIT. But please don't tell me she's done a good job, because she hasn't. At best, it can be said, she's showing signs of improvement.

That's the problem, Defense, in simply looking at numbers, statistics and analytics from afar without looking at the reasons behind the numbers. Wake Forest has had a long legacy of injury-plagued teams; this was one of the few seasons while Hoover has been there where the team was largely healthy.

 

[Jmul760170]

I wonder if just barely squeaking into the NCAA tournament is enough to save her job. The AD spoke openly last year about how more was expected from the program.

I dunno. She's rode the injury, illness, we'll have better depth, trains for years. How many coaches have been let go after making the NCAA?

 

[Plebe]

I dunno. She's rode the injury, illness, we'll have better depth, trains for years. How many coaches have been let go after making the NCAA?

Good question.

Warlick was fired by Tennessee after last year's 1st-round exit.
Goestenkors "resigned" at Texas after a 1st-round exit in 2012.
Hatchell "resigned" after last season's 1st-round exit, but that was allegedly over off-the-court stuff.

There may be others I just can't think of right now.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

As I had no idea who this is, and what the discussion was about, I just did a quick search and review. This year she is tied for 5th, last year she tied for 1st, the year before that she was 3rd. So on the surface, she is not the worst coach in the Mountain West Conference. Here contract runs thru the 2021 season. I would say based on the peripherals of her record, places in the MW and focus, it's at best a 50-50 probability she is retained. So unless you have more "inside info"-were significant resources given to her? Were there many transfers out? She's getting paid oodles of cash as a salary that could be spent elsewhere. That type of effort that the school is not getting the correct return on it's effort are some of the other reasons why she would not be retained. Sorry...

I have no horse in this, as I don't follow UNLV, but as I suggested in my post, her history at UCLA was such that she just wasn't popular. At the time, long before the PAC12 network, UCLA was on TV a bit - even in NJ - and I never thought she was horrible, but then I would come on the BY and some UConn fans would be tearing her up. And when I looked into it further, such as you could at the time, she just wasn't popular. It sounds to me like that hasn't changed.

 

[MSGRET]

As I had no idea who this is, and what the discussion was about, I just did a quick search and review. This year she is tied for 5th, last year she tied for 1st, the year before that she was 3rd. So on the surface, she is not the worst coach in the Mountain West Conference. Here contract runs thru the 2021 season. I would say based on the peripherals of her record, places in the MW and focus, it's at best a 50-50 probability she is retained. So unless you have more "inside info"-were significant resources given to her? Were there many transfers out? She's getting paid oodles of cash as a salary that could be spent elsewhere. That type of effort that the school is not getting the correct return on it's effort are some of the other reasons why she would not be retained. Sorry...

She resigned as the Head Coach on Friday after her first round loss. Over the 12 years as the HC she amassed a 182 - 193 record. No one has said if it was voluntary or if she was kind of pushed out.

 

[DefenseBB]

So here's a bit of a twist to the Coaches on the hotseat question...what former coach comes back out of retirement to take over a team this off-season, call it the "Nell Fortner"?
Of the top of my head is a list of:
Joanne Boyle
Holly Warlick
Gail Goestenkors
Melanie Balcomb
Caroline Peck

 

[nwhoopfan]

So here's a bit of a twist to the Coaches on the hotseat question...what former coach comes back out of retirement to take over a team this off-season, call it the "Nell Fortner"?
Of the top of my head is a list of:
Joanne Boyle
Holly Warlick
Gail Goestenkors
Melanie Balcomb
Caroline Peck

Please let it be Caroline Peck, so I don't have to hear her in the studio anymore.

 

[Jmul760170]

I feel bad for anyone that might get Peck or Balcomb.
Balcomb has been sitting on Purdue's bench this year, with no noticeable result. Her last few years at Vandy didn't go well either.
Peck, even though she won a NC, had that one gift wrapped and handed to her by Nell Fortner.
Fortner is the one coach I wish Purdue could have held onto. Great recruiter, personable and able to coach on the big stage.
Something Sharon Versyp has yet to demonstrate.

 

[Shmermerer]

I feel bad for anyone that might get Peck or Balcomb.
Balcomb has been sitting on Purdue's bench this year, with no noticeable result. Her last few years at Vandy didn't go well either.
Peck, even though she won a NC, had that one gift wrapped and handed to her by Nell Fortner.
Fortner is the one coach I wish Purdue could have held onto. Great recruiter, personable and able to coach on the big stage.
Something Sharon Versyp has yet to demonstrate.

Boyle was pretty bad at Virginia. Not sure anyone would want her either.

 

[Jmul760170]

Boyle was pretty bad at Virginia. Not sure anyone would want her either.

All the coaches listed were probably highly sought after or recommended at some point. Just goes to show you how quickly your reputation can be changed.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

So I did a little research, and it turns out some schools / folks call it a revenue sport and some do not. When we were at Rutgers it was called a "Revenue Sport" to differentiate it from the sports that got no revenue from fans (everything else but football and MBB at the time). Those other sports had no admission charges and were called either "non-revenue" or "Olympic" sports, including golf, tennis, swimming, Field Hockey, lax, and yes, at the time, soccer. Times have changed.

I also saw a scholarly article that considered it a revenue sport; but conversely found several schools that call "baseball" for example a revenue sport because it is (for them). I agreed with your comment that it does not typically generate significant revenue, but the classification does apparently vary.

A lot of the physicality in the PAC is not so much the contact on the ball handler but is in going after blocks, loose balls, and the like. Which an awful lot of the ref's have no problem with. I regularly expect injuries; but as physical as our players are, I have never seen them do anything intentionally harmful and additionally (and unlike Rutgers) I don't see them playing a style that pushes the foul envelope. I don't think a review of U of A fouls would find the calls unbalanced (again, unlike (often) Rutgers). And in the PAC, an awful lot of foul calls are actually pretty ticky-tack while some really physical stuff is not called.

Let me preface my comment with the fact that Rutgers is my 2nd favorite school and I grew up very close to their campus.

Rutgers Football doesn't even make money, so basically, the term "revenue sport" has to mean that fans pay for tickets or there wouldn't be any revenue sports. I'm sure the annual Big Ten checks help to nearly balance the budget, but without that, there'd be a huge deficit.

 

[triaddukefan]

Boyle was pretty bad at Virginia. Not sure anyone would want her either.

There was a time people wanted her at Duke.... but we got McCallie instead.

 

[DefenseBB]

There was a time people wanted her at Duke.... but we got McCallie instead.

Interesting. I didn't know Joanne Boyle played at Duke. she had two nice runs at Richmond and California before cratering at Virginia. Honestly, Lindsey Gottlieb parlayed Joanne's talent at Cal into her Final Four run and then ruined that program. Coaching is a job that is invariable a job waiting to be fired. All of the old coaches listed were fired at one point but they did have success somewhere.

 

[WestsideWaltz]

I have no horse in this, as I don't follow UNLV, but as I suggested in my post, her history at UCLA was such that she just wasn't popular. At the time, long before the PAC12 network, UCLA was on TV a bit - even in NJ - and I never thought she was horrible, but then I would come on the BY and some UConn fans would be tearing her up. And when I looked into it further, such as you could at the time, she just wasn't popular. It sounds to me like that hasn't changed.

Kathy Olivier was a horrible coach but a good recruiter and a brilliant politician. She knew how to play the right people and held on to two coaching jobs for a total of 24 years with a record of around .500.

UCLA fans were especially upset at her lack of discipline and seeming lack of coaching knowledge. Only when she was threatened with dismissal did she start trying to coach. In a shocking interview, she admitted that only in her final season at UCLA did she start correcting her players when she would "let things slide" previously. Erica Gomez, point guard, did a scathing interview with the LA Times outlining the program's problems. Olivier herself said she didn't want the players to think basketball was the only thing the college experience was about and it led to a total loser mentality. According to Gomez, after UCLA was thrashed by UConn, the girls got on the bus and talked about where they were going shopping the next day. That was the culture she imbued. During weight training sessions, she would have the girls get up and pretend they were auditioning for American Idol. Need I go on?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Kathy Olivier was a horrible coach but a good recruiter and a brilliant politician. She knew how to play the right people and held on to two coaching jobs for a total of 24 years with a record of around .500.

UCLA fans were especially upset at her lack of discipline and seeming lack of coaching knowledge. Only when she was threatened with dismissal did she start trying to coach. In a shocking interview, she admitted that only in her final season at UCLA did she start correcting her players when she would "let things slide" previously. Erica Gomez, point guard, did a scathing interview with the LA Times outlining the program's problems. Olivier herself said she didn't want the players to think basketball was the only thing the college experience was about and it led to a total loser mentality. According to Gomez, after UCLA was thrashed by UConn, the girls got on the bus and talked about where they were going shopping the next day. That was the culture she imbued. During weight training sessions, she would have the girls get up and pretend they were auditioning for American Idol. Need I go on?

Thanks. As I said, I never knew details, really, I probably would know more if this had been after we moved to Tucson but that was when we were still in NJ.

 

[Dillon77]

Interesting. I didn't know Joanne Boyle played at Duke. she had two nice runs at Richmond and California before cratering at Virginia. Honestly, Lindsey Gottlieb parlayed Joanne's talent at Cal into her Final Four run and then ruined that program. Coaching is a job that is invariable a job waiting to be fired. All of the old coaches listed were fired at one point but they did have success somewhere.

Joanne Boyle did have two good runs on separate coasts before coming back to the ACC at UVA. I thought that would work out better, given her coaching days in Richmond and playing days at Duke (where she averaged 13 ppg her senior year btw).

I don't know if she "cratered" per se at Charlottesville, as much as she got stuck in neutral, going 129-99 overall, with a 53-61 ACC record. Her last year the Wahoos made the NCAA and, if memory holds, they beat California in the opening round. The, of course, she retired to tend to the matter of ensuring her daughter could stay in the U.S.

That 17-18 team was led by one of her better recruiting classes that included Jocelyn Willoughby, Domique Toussaint and Lisa Jablonowski. Willoughby made the All-ACC team as a senior, but the team finished 13-17, the second straight losing season for Tina Thompson. There are some decent young guards but nothing that screams "we're making serious progress here." I wondered about the Thompson hire when it was made (no head coaching experience, primary contacts in Texas) and am still not sure about it. @uconnhusky and I have talked about the inroads UVA used to have on the I-95 corridor and that just seems to have been ceded to Maryland and others over the years.

 

[mbr33ct]

There was a time people wanted her at Duke.... but we got McCallie instead.

You dodged a bullet there.

 

[DefenseBB]

Joanne Boyle did have two good runs on separate coasts before coming back to the ACC at UVA. I thought that would work out better, given her coaching days in Richmond and playing days at Duke (where she averaged 13 ppg her senior year btw).

I don't know if she "cratered" per se at Charlottesville, as much as she got stuck in neutral, going 129-99 overall, with a 53-61 ACC record. Her last year the Wahoos made the NCAA and, if memory holds, they beat California in the opening round. The, of course, she retired to tend to the matter of ensuring her daughter could stay in the U.S.

That 17-18 team was led by one of her better recruiting classes that included Jocelyn Willoughby, Domique Toussaint and Lisa Jablonowski. Willoughby made the All-ACC team as a senior, but the team finished 13-17, the second straight losing season for Tina Thompson. There are some decent young guards but nothing that screams "we're making serious progress here." I wondered about the Thompson hire when it was made (no head coaching experience, primary contacts in Texas) and am still not sure about it. @uconnhusky and I have talked about the inroads UVA used to have on the I-95 corridor and that just seems to have been ceded to Maryland and others over the years.

I was shocked she made the tournament her last year and yes, in my mind she "cratered". I had hear she was not asked back and she politely was given the option to "resign" or not seek a new contract. UVa paid her handsomely for a job poorly done.
That said, as we both noted, she did do well at both Cal and Richmond and could take some team in some other league over and do a decent job. Whether being a mother to an 8 year-old will allow that in terms of time, many others have done it so she should be able to.
BTW, in watching the Big East Semi-Final and Final games with Marquette and your girl Meg Duffy, she said she wanted to exhort a more BigTen style at Marquette.... Why? The BigTen is not known for it's robust offensive swag or deep tournament runs like say a school named ND from whence she came.

 

[DefenseBB]

Navy fires head coach Stefanie Pemper

Navy has fired women's basketball coach Stefanie Pemper following a 12-year run that finished with two straight losing seasons.

www.espn.com

What I find interesting is the wording of 'Navy fires" as almost never is a coach "fired" without cause, mostly the contract expires and is not renewed. Is Navy really buying out her remaining years or are they in fact, not renewing the contract?

 

[Dillon77]

I was shocked she made the tournament her last year and yes, in my mind she "cratered". I had hear she was not asked back and she politely was given the option to "resign" or not seek a new contract. UVa paid her handsomely for a job poorly done.
That said, as we both noted, she did do well at both Cal and Richmond and could take some team in some other league over and do a decent job. Whether being a mother to an 8 year-old will allow that in terms of time, many others have done it so she should be able to.
BTW, in watching the Big East Semi-Final and Final games with Marquette and your girl Meg Duffy, she said she wanted to exhort a more BigTen style at Marquette.... Why? The BigTen is not known for it's robust offensive swag or deep tournament runs like say a school named ND from whence she came.

In regards to that "Big Ten" reference, a colleague or two from "The Bench" also brought it up and one thought it referred to a "B1G" type of player vs. Big Ten type of play. In either case, I get your point. Her Miami (of Ohio) team was predicated on pushing the ball up and all the players she inhertited at Marquette were recruited with going up and down the court, as well. Maybe she means getting an aircraft carrier* like Hallie Thome was for Michigan, who played there Duffy when was an assistant coach? (She just recruited a very tall center from Denmark?)

As for Boyle, "cratered" has a bit more explosive element to it, while I was thinking she just kinda ran out of gas and slid into the earth. In any case, you'll see a few older posts of mine around here questioning whether it was time to find someone other than Ms. Boyle who could get the Hoo's off the ground again. So we're in agreement there. However, I'm really not certain WNBA legend Ms. Thompson has the appropriate pilot tools for this mission. I'll be watching her next season.

* Since Megan Duffy is at Marquette, I had to use Al McGuire's beloved term for a center. Maybe Jerome Whitehead has a granddaughter or niece?

 

[Plebe]

UND women's basketball coach Travis Brewster won't return next season | Grand Forks Herald

UND women's basketball coach Travis Brewster, head coach for the last eight years and a member of the staff for 17, will not return next season, athletic director Bill Chaves announced Wednesday.

www.grandforksherald.com

 

[DefenseBB]

Wow, and they actually bought out his last year (50% value) but still. 15-15 doesn't seem that bad but if you never have any "up" years and your career is 128-120, I guess you lose your job. I did have a minor chuckle as the headline says UND with a male name so I immediately knew it wasn't University of Notre Dame....

So with the postseason cancelled, do we see announcements happen sooner?