Coached or played basketball.

[Bama fan]

If you just kinda like them, you're not a true Beatles fan. No one kinda likes them.

Three Dog Night does.

 

[ME Husky Fan]

I played (not well) and refereed (even less well), but I'm not sure this is the right question, frankly. I've never been president of the United States, but I certainly have my (impeccable) opinions about how the country ought to be run. And opinions on pretty much everything else. And I recognize that others have the right to their own (mostly wrong compared to mine of course) opinions on just about every subject.

I agree that as a sports fan some sort of expertise can be important. And that is usually the result of personal experience more than of study. But I think there are two sensibilities at play here that produce our different outlooks, regardless of our differing experiences.
1. a fundamental sense of humility about just how hard it is to play basketball consistently well. Of course, that humility is easiest gain through personal experience. But you don't need to be a violinist to appreciate how hard it is to play a violin at master level. Frankly, you just need imagination.
2. different temperaments. some folks see the glass half empty, others half full. No bridging that divide: it's just the way the world turns.

There's no answer, I don't think, for the broadly-sketched differences between those posters who are more critical or pessimistic, and those who are just less so. I don't think that expertise necessarily makes you one or the other. Temperament does.

Played high school, D1 in college. Coached girls grades 3/4 all the way to high school age and AAU but it doesn't make me any smarter than others. Reminds me of my Dad when we watched the Yankees broadcasts and he absolutely despised Frank Messer who never played the game, so he discounted everything Frank had to say. I'm of the opinion that despite on court experience you can have a very valid opinion and analysis of the game and perhaps see the game in a completely different and perhaps better light.

 

[rugbymate]

grew up in Philly so spent every day hanging at a playground and playing pick up. Went on to play in college, refereed to help get through grad school and coached youth teams. I think having played gives one a deeper understanding up the game. Having said that, if one studies the game it just isn't that hard to attain an understanding of the various strategies and tactics used by quality teams.
Where it sometimes makes a difference if you have played or not is appreciating how hard it is to perform consistently well. I played in HS with an AA and he would effortlessly rack up 25-35 most nights and then he had a game of nothing but bricks. It happens to the best. But never did a teammate doubt the AA or think anything but geez...that was a tough outing and he'll tear it up next game.

 

[Oldbones]

If you just kinda like them, you're not a true Beatles fan. No one kinda likes them.

I agree. Talk to Hoyt Axton- he wrote the lyrics for Three Dog Night. Wait, he died.

 

[HuskyBandDad]

Just because you never played doesn't mean you don't know the game. But if you never have played then I think some don't realize how hard is to perform at a high level.

 

[vtcwbuff]

...along with the people who start their sentences "I've been a fan since..." as though sitting in front of the TV makes them experts.

"Expert" is relative.

Nice to see that you have such a high opinion of so many of the BY members.

 

[Centerstream]

"Expert" is relative.

Nice to see that you have such a high opinion of so many of the BY members.

Really??????

 

[HoopsHoppy]

I did stay at a holiday inn - actually more than once. My playing ended in the late 40’s and, no, we had gone beyond peach baskets. Only coaching was one on one with a daughter.

 

[Bigpetunia]

playing gives you a lil more inside on players "confidence"... or lack of! The most badly used word in the woman's game

Agreed. I was a halfway decent high school level player, never good enough to go to the next level, and had different goals in mind by that time anyway. While no one would have accused me of having a “complete” game, I was regarded as a consistent perimeter shooter. What I learned from that experience was the role of confidence in shooting efficiency. One can get one’s confidence to the level that one is shocked when even the toughest outside shots don’t drop, and, conversely, there are times when that level of certainty is entirely elusive. Lou, for example, is in a zone where she regards shots from behind the arc as virtual layups, and that supreme level of confidence yields predictable results. Gabby, who certainly has the ability, clearly has no confidence in the reliability of her 15’ jumpers, with equally predictable results. It’s a shame, because adding that element to her game would make her the most feared player in the country.

 

[meyers7]

Played HS varsity, coached AAU.
Also officiated many sports. Basketball being far and away the most difficult to call.
I thought the quote was "Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Those that can't teach, teach gym." (WA)

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach, Those that can't teach, become Administrators. Those that can't administrate, become Guidance Counselors.

Can't believe we allow "educators" whose career has wound them up as guidance counselors to give guidance to our kids.

 

[Charliebball]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach, Those that can't teach, become Administrators. Those that can't administrate, become Guidance Counselors.

Can't believe we allow "educators" whose career has wound them up as guidance counselors to give guidance to our kids.

I've never heard the guidance counselor part before.................perhaps that why I've never been all that impressed with the ones that have worked with my kids.............

 

[meyers7]

Well, I've never been to England, but I kinda like the Beatles.......

Three Dog Night does.

I agree. Talk to Hoyt Axton- he wrote the lyrics for Three Dog Night. Wait, he died.

Well since we are going off the rails anyway, might as well.

 

[meyers7]

I've never heard the guidance counselor part before.......perhaps that why I've never been all that impressed with the ones that have worked with my kids...

Well since I made that up myself, it's probably not out in the lexicon. But yea, not all that impressive are they?

 

[huskeynut]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach, Those that can't teach, become Administrators. Those that can't administrate, become Guidance Counselors.

Can't believe we allow "educators" whose career has wound them up as guidance counselors to give guidance to our kids.

Meyers7 - always liked your posts but I have to disagree with some of this. Having spent my career in education, 33 years as a band director and an administrator, I have always taken exception to "those that can't, teach." It is insulting to those who spend untold hours in the classroom and in preparation for their classes. I'm talking about those teachers who do their jobs at a high level. My daughter-in-law, a kindergarten teacher, is one of those. And I will be the first to admit, there are those who should not be in the classroom. I challenged many to come in and do my job - 100+ kids at once with noise makers in their hands. And my job required my taking my classroom public at least 2 times a year. High school was more like one a week in the fall (marching band - competative) and then another 3 or 4 times by June. Funny, I had no takers.

I will agree that too many administrators never spent enough time in the classroom before climbing the ladder. They are terrible to work with. But I also worked with some great administrators. I won't even mention how many times I clashed with a guidance counselor or two. So don't get me started on that one!

So let me conclude, we may disagree on some of this, which I'm fine with. And yes, I still play my horn professionally in my retirement. Some gigs I get paid for and some I don't. I did play professionally and I did teach.

 

[Bama fan]

Well since I made that up myself, it's probably not out in the lexicon. But yea, not all that impressive are they?

Rest assured that it is out in the lexicon now. BY is widely quoted across the media on a daily basis. That last part might be fake news.

 

[meyers7]

Meyers7 - always liked your posts but I have to disagree with some of this. Having spent my career in education, 33 years as a band director and an administrator, I have always taken exception to "those that can't, teach." It is insulting to those who spend untold hours in the classroom and in preparation for their classes. I'm talking about those teachers who do their jobs at a high level. My daughter-in-law, a kindergarten teacher, is one of those. And I will be the first to admit, there are those who should not be in the classroom. I challenged many to come in and do my job - 100+ kids at once with noise makers in their hands. And my job required my taking my classroom public at least 2 times a year. High school was more like one a week in the fall (marching band - competative) and then another 3 or 4 times by June. Funny, I had no takers.

I will agree that too many administrators never spent enough time in the classroom before climbing the ladder. They are terrible to work with. But I also worked with some great administrators. I won't even mention how many times I clashed with a guidance counselor or two. So don't get me started on that one!

So let me conclude, we may disagree on some of this, which I'm fine with. And yes, I still play my horn professionally in my retirement. Some gigs I get paid for and some I don't. I did play professionally and I did teach.

Nothing personal. I'm sure there are many good teachers out there (I've had a few. My band director being one of them). But on the other hand, I've known a lot of teachers also.

Personally, I've subbed at the Elementary and Middle School levels for a bit, quite a few years ago though. Also was an Instructor in the military, nuclear and electric industry for some years. Not quite the same, but similar. Currently coach (can't play) HS kids and am a soccer referee instructor. So I've done a bit of teaching/instructing myself.

What instrument do you play? (I played tuba all those years ago.)

 

[huskeynut]

Nothing personal. I'm sure there are many good teachers out there (I've had a few. My band director being one of them). But on the other hand, I've known a lot of teachers also.

Personally, I've subbed at the Elementary and Middle School levels for a bit, quite a few years ago though. Also was an Instructor in the military, nuclear and electric industry for some years. Not quite the same, but similar. Currently coach (can't play) HS kids and am a soccer referee instructor. So I've done a bit of teaching/instructing myself.

What instrument do you play? (I played tuba all those years ago.)

Still playing trumpet and flugelhorn. Playing lead in a couple of swing bands here in central Florida. Also play some guitar and a little bass.

I known a bunch who should never have been allowed in the classroom. Some left, a lot stayed. I blame a lot of bad teachers on administrators who can't or won't do their job during evaluations.

 

[phil sampieri]

Just because you never played doesn't mean you don't know the game. But if you never have played then I think some don't realize how hard is to perform at a high level.

Played CYO, high school,coached grade school, played in Euopean Army team where I found out how good I wasn't, coached unit team and played full court until I reached 70.Still miss it. One complaint about youth league basketball boys and girls is how the are allowed to palm carry the ball. Drives me crazy.

 

[VAMike23]

Played CYO, high school,coached grade school, played in Euopean Army team where I found out how good I wasn't, coached unit team and played full court until I reached 70.Still miss it. One complaint about youth league basketball boys and girls is how the are allowed to palm carry the ball. Drives me crazy.

+ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

My biggest soap-box pet-peeve of the last 30 years has been how the (now allowed) carry has completely transformed the game at multiple levels, especially pro but also collegiate and now apparently the HS ranks as well.

Show people videos of the old Knicks teams from the 70s , just as a quick example, and they would see the difference instantly. The dribbler's hand is actually on top of the ball. To think!

With the carry essentially allowed (encouraged?), lateral explosiveness of the ballhandler becomes paramount. Without the carry, defenders can more easily check the ballhandler, putting a premium on passing, clever ballhandling & footwork, and--most of all--team play in general.

 

[HoopsHoppy]

Long story - but fits into coaching discussion:

Some 79 years ago, my first coach explained that basketball was easy; all I would have to do is learn to pass, shoot, dribble, rebound and play defense - and after a pause “and you play defense half the game”. That stuck with me all my playing days, especially since I wasn’t a big scorer but wanted to play and not sit on the bench.

Years later, when one of my daughters showed both a strong interest and an aptitude for playing, I passed those words along to her. They weren’t as fully adhered to as with me, primarily because she was
a scorer and had all the offensive tools.

Time passes and I’m driving my young grandson to a CYO practice and he turns to me and, some 67 years after I first heard the five skills and emphasis lesson, he told me what his mother had told him he should do to develop and play basketball.

True story - and had me soft thinking about the same words being passed down over so many years.

 

[HuskyNan]

Nothing personal. I'm sure there are many good teachers out there (I've had a few. My band director being one of them). But on the other hand, I've known a lot of teachers also.

Personally, I've subbed at the Elementary and Middle School levels for a bit, quite a few years ago though. Also was an Instructor in the military, nuclear and electric industry for some years. Not quite the same, but similar. Currently coach (can't play) HS kids and am a soccer referee instructor. So I've done a bit of teaching/instructing myself.

What instrument do you play? (I played tuba all those years ago.)

Aaaaaaaa, tuba! Low brass kicks ass!

My youngest plays the baritone horn. I’m a former band mom. My son is a music major in college now.

 

[mdakota]

I played in the NBA for 13 years.. Was a starter the middle of my rookie season, earned ROY award and subsequently won multiple titles and MVP awards.

Granted I did all this sitting on my couch... playing NBA 2k18 (video game) on my PS4. lol. But it's still experience

FYI Doris Burke calls games on NBA 2k18 Is quite long-winded on the video game as well lol.

 

[Dillon77]

Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach, Those that can't teach, become Administrators. Those that can't administrate, become Guidance Counselors.

Can't believe we allow "educators" whose career has wound them up as guidance counselors to give guidance to our kids.

I've never heard the guidance counselor part before.......perhaps that why I've never been all that impressed with the ones that have worked with my kids...

Well since I made that up myself, it's probably not out in the lexicon. But yea, not all that impressive are they?

Huskeynut covered my basic thoughts regarding teachers. I'm the son of a teacher-turned principal-turned teacher again and a nurse who became a nursing instructor. Plus I'm married to one dedicated and talented 4th grade math teacher -- who is working on lesson plans as I type prior to a Valentine's Day dinner. Like any profession, there are some teachers or administrators that are not up to snuff, but I personally know far more who prove their mettle day in, day out.

As for guidance counselors and their college counterparts, admissions counselors. Once again, I'm sure there are many that don't and shouldn't pass muster, but three of my four kids had absolutely stellar counselors in high school. Two of my kids were waitlisted at their dream schools and the high school counselors sprung into action, calling their contacts at said schools and researching the situation. They came up with a plan and -- while the ultimate responsibility was with the student -- did a thorough, professional and caring role in what proved to be successful quests for admissions. Both students, btw, had stellar academic careers, which I've found is not uncommon with "wait list kids." BTW, the counterparts of the HS counselor -- the admissions counselors-- were also very helpful, while being objective.

So, count me in as someone who still believes strongly in educators. There will be more when I fill out my own background on this....

 

[UcMiami]

Dillon, I would say you were very lucky in your GC experiences because my experience and that of all my friends in HS was they were pretty worthless, but ...

I played pick-up ball through junior high and on one age specific and very poor team when I was maybe 12. But I loved the game and watched the Celtics dynastic years religiously. Never coached.

Except for a stretch when I lost interest with the men's pros (around the time of the Len Bias death) until I started watching the Uconn women I have spent the years watching and learning about the game. Definitely not an insider, but think I can see what is happening on a court pretty well.

Absolutely agree about the carry rule changing the game, and think the other big change is the walk rule on a similar level. Add in the three pointer, shot clock, and a much stricter interpretation of fouls. But the biggest change over the years is pure athleticism especially with the men. Nutrition, training, shoes, and evolution have changed all sports, but probably basketball more than other team sports.

 

[tomcat]

Played pickup basketball in high school and college and was dreadfully bad at it. Would never pitch my opinions as anything resembling expertise, of which I have none. If you ever saw me play hoops back in the day, you would know why. The thought of me coaching basketball is so absurd that I cannot even imagine it.

Meanwhile, the things I say tend to be observations because, by profession, I am trained to observe.