Coach Hurley says this year's team can't take "hard" coaching

[Deleted at users request]

Game 1 to 41. If you cannot see that Lamb had an advanced skillset, as a freshman mind you, to sophomore Ross, then I just don't know what to tell you.

Already pointed out Lamb struggled at first and then grew into his tools the more playing time and shots he got. Then it was abundantly clear the skillset he had once he was comfortable and Lamb himself has said this.

Ross doesn’t have the same opportunity to take half the shots Lamb was allowed to take to show off the same skillset because Hurley quit on him a month in (you can see by the shot attempts, not minutes). Hell Lamb was a maestro from mid range which is not a good shot in this offense.

But it’s okay. We’ll just sit back and wait for the next group of guards to come in, not get any real opportunity to grow, and then blame it on a misevaluation again.

 

[boog204]

Already pointed out Lamb struggled at first and then grew into his tools the more playing time and shots he got. Then it was abundantly clear the skillset he had once he was comfortable and Lamb himself has said this.

Ross doesn’t have the same opportunity to take half the shots Lamb was allowed to take to show off the same skillset because Hurley quit on him a month in (you can see by the shot attempts, not minutes). Hell Lamb was a maestro from mid range which is not a good shot in this offense.

But it’s okay. We’ll just sit back and wait for the next group of guards to come in, not get any real opportunity to grow, and then blame it on a misevaluation again.

Agree on your first part... Lamb grew with time and by the 3/4 point of the year he was an outstanding 2G who very clearly had lottery pick potential.

But you have said, now repeatedly, that Lamb did not have a better skillset than Ross. It was blatantly obvious from the first minutes that Lamb had some serious tools. I know highlights do not tell the whole picture, but Lamb was doing things in those first games that Ross has never been able to do. I look at Ross and I see a bouncy kid. He's raw, long, and athletic. He has had brief moments of being a great defender. I don't see a great handle or jump shot. I do not see someone who can play instinctively and certainly see someone with absolutely zero confidence and understanding of the flow of the game. Ross was given the starting nod the first game after Liam went down and he was awful. He was given other opportunities early in the year when Dan Hurley was pumping him up as a starter and he failed. Much like Stew, Ross was given opportunity to play minutes and just didn't bring much to the table. How much more, in a season of somewhat desperation like this, do you want him to go back to the well?

We have our two highest rated guards coming in next year and I think an enormous sleeper in Furphy as well. If these dudes stagnate/bust then you may have something. To be honest, I think the bigger question is how/why Dan Hurley is now 0/2 in bringing top 50 freshmen PGs. I'm not ready to write off Nowell yet, but wow, that has not worked out in the way I thought. Legit thought he could end up being the starting PG. Diggins, given his #'s at UMass, was probably just an overrated recruit. But still.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Agree on your first part... Lamb grew with time and by the 3/4 point of the year he was an outstanding 2G who very clearly had lottery pick potential.

But you have said, now repeatedly, that Lamb did not have a better skillset than Ross. It was blatantly obvious from the first minutes that Lamb had some serious tools. I know highlights do not tell the whole picture, but Lamb was doing things in those first games that Ross has never been able to do. I look at Ross and I see a bouncy kid. He's raw, long, and athletic. He has had brief moments of being a great defender. I don't see a great handle or jump shot. I do not see someone who can play instinctively and certainly see someone with absolutely zero confidence and understanding of the flow of the game. Ross was given the starting nod the first game after Liam went down and he was awful. He was given other opportunities early in the year when Dan Hurley was pumping him up as a starter and he failed. Much like Stew, Ross was given opportunity to play minutes and just didn't bring much to the table. How much more, in a season of somewhat desperation like this, do you want him to go back to the well?

We have our two highest rated guards coming in next year and I think an enormous sleeper in Furphy as well. If these dudes stagnate/bust then you may have something. To be honest, I think the bigger question is how/why Dan Hurley is now 0/2 in bringing top 50 freshmen PGs. I'm not ready to write off Nowell yet, but wow, that has not worked out in the way I thought. Legit thought he could end up being the starting PG. Diggins, given his #'s at UMass, was probably just an overrated recruit. But still.

I for sure agree you can tell Lamb had tools when you watch him on the court instantly. But it did not turn into production until later.

Ross similarly has tools that is not being turned into production. We mentioned the athlete part, he has a great looking jumper, and has shown pretty good handle to get to spots he wants to get to and the ability to make good passes. Look at this shot vs Marquette in a situation he HAD to shoot it in so he didn’t think about it at 3:30:



Ross was also pretty good against Georgetown and was rewarded with 8 minutes and 0 shots against Creighton the next game.

My point is not that Lamb didn’t have a skillset or tools. It’s that Ross has them also. But Ross doesn’t get pushed the same way Lamb did to explore them. Hurley has been perfectly content with him doing nothing but being a 3 and D guy and may even punish him for doing more and messing up. Which is why we see 3 shots a game from him at most. Stew has similar problems where Hurley only seems comfortable with him shooting 3s as those are the majority of shots he takes. He does not get asked to explore other parts of his game.

I appreciate you actually bringing an intellectual thought to the discussion rather than a snarky comment because you have nothing to add.

Also yes, I’m also on the we haven’t seen if Hurley is capable of developing a PG contingent too. Which is why I’m petrified for Adams if that’s our plan for him.

As for guards overall, I’m waiting for Hurley to be able to teach these guys how to do something besides shoot.

 

[Excalibur]

Game 1 to 41. If you cannot see that Lamb had an advanced skillset, as a freshman mind you, to sophomore Ross, then I just don't know what to tell you.

His entire argument is based on an assumption that is objectively wrong, and that anyone with a brain and critical thinking skills can see past.

 

[Excalibur]

I for sure agree you can tell Lamb had tools when you watch him on the court instantly. But it did not turn into production until later.

"Later" was the seventh game of the season . . .

 

[Kemba15]

I for sure agree you can tell Lamb had tools when you watch him on the court instantly. But it did not turn into production until later.

Ross similarly has tools that is not being turned into production. We mentioned the athlete part, he has a great looking jumper, and has shown pretty good handle to get to spots he wants to get to and the ability to make good passes. Look at this shot vs Marquette in a situation he HAD to shoot it in so he didn’t think about it at 3:30:



Ross was also pretty good against Georgetown and was rewarded with 8 minutes and 0 shots against Creighton the next game.

My point is not that Lamb didn’t have a skillset or tools. It’s that Ross has them also. But Ross doesn’t get pushed the same way Lamb did to explore them. Hurley has been perfectly content with him doing nothing but being a 3 and D guy and may even punish him for doing more and messing up. Which is why we see 3 shots a game from him at most. Stew has similar problems where Hurley only seems comfortable with him shooting 3s as those are the majority of shots he takes. He does not get asked to explore other parts of his game.

I appreciate you actually bringing an intellectual thought to the discussion rather than a snarky comment because you have nothing to add.

Also yes, I’m also on the we haven’t seen if Hurley is capable of developing a PG contingent too. Which is why I’m petrified for Adams if that’s our plan for him.

As for guards overall, I’m waiting for Hurley to be able to teach these guys how to do something besides shoot.

Wasn't Calhoun infamous for quick hooks and being too hard on players for making mistakes? Even if you are right that Ross is being underutilized and underdeveloped you should trust the staff to figure it out and course correct based on everything they have accomplished so far.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Wasn't Calhoun infamous for quick hooks and being too hard on players for making mistakes? Even if you are right that Ross is being underutilized and underdeveloped you should trust the staff to figure it out and course correct based on everything they have accomplished so far.

Completely different and I’ve explained this before. You all have revisionist history about this quick hook. It was not that deep. And based on Calhoun’s track record for developing STARS, I’d say he knew exactly what he was doing. Unless you’d rather bring up why 80th ranked recruit Marcus White didn’t get enough playing time on a team that had Ben Gordon, Rashad Anderson, and Dehnam Brown on it (not you but lol at the reaches people make to bring down Calhoun to excuse Hurley).

Based on how this board is talking, it doesn’t seem like the staff will be interested in course correcting with Ross. I’m proud that despite his struggles and the lack of trust the staff has shown him recently he’s still the main player you see standing up cheering his teammates on every game.

What an amazing kid.

 

[boog204]

I for sure agree you can tell Lamb had tools when you watch him on the court instantly. But it did not turn into production until later.

Ross similarly has tools that is not being turned into production. We mentioned the athlete part, he has a great looking jumper, and has shown pretty good handle to get to spots he wants to get to and the ability to make good passes. Look at this shot vs Marquette in a situation he HAD to shoot it in so he didn’t think about it at 3:30:



Ross was also pretty good against Georgetown and was rewarded with 8 minutes and 0 shots against Creighton the next game.

My point is not that Lamb didn’t have a skillset or tools. It’s that Ross has them also. But Ross doesn’t get pushed the same way Lamb did to explore them. Hurley has been perfectly content with him doing nothing but being a 3 and D guy and may even punish him for doing more and messing up. Which is why we see 3 shots a game from him at most. Stew has similar problems where Hurley only seems comfortable with him shooting 3s as those are the majority of shots he takes. He does not get asked to explore other parts of his game.

I appreciate you actually bringing an intellectual thought to the discussion rather than a snarky comment because you have nothing to add.

Also yes, I’m also on the we haven’t seen if Hurley is capable of developing a PG contingent too. Which is why I’m petrified for Adams if that’s our plan for him.

As for guards overall, I’m waiting for Hurley to be able to teach these guys how to do something besides shoot.

Only other thing I'll add is I'm not sure what to make of any "green light" scenario with any of our reserves. Are Stew and Ross discouraged from doing more because the main gist of our offense is to get 3's for AK, Liam, and Solo? Is it a case of guys "not being asked" to expand or is that what their skillset allows? Stew, in particular, is a guy who has shown some ability to pass, create, and put the ball on the floor (although he is also turnover-prone.) But he seems reluctant to do much when he has the ball in his hands. Is that his passivity or the nature of the offense?

I know they've joked about the green light concept with the bigs and shooting 3's. But does the intricacy of our offense hold certain guys back? I think a guy like Castle in some ways was "held back" from a purely offensive standpoint because we didn't need him to be a creator and ISO because our stuff was so next-level good. He's now gone to the league and illustrated that he can be an outstanding ISO guy and get to the hoop pretty much anytime he wants.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Only other thing I'll add is I'm not sure what to make of any "green light" scenario with any of our reserves. Are Stew and Ross discouraged from doing more because the main gist of our offense is to get 3's for AK, Liam, and Solo? Is it a case of guys "not being asked" to expand or is that what their skillset allows? Stew, in particular, is a guy who has shown some ability to pass, create, and put the ball on the floor (although he is also turnover-prone.) But he seems reluctant to do much when he has the ball in his hands. Is that his passivity or the nature of the offense?

I know they've joked about the green light concept with the bigs and shooting 3's. But does the intricacy of our offense hold certain guys back? I think a guy like Castle in some ways was "held back" from a purely offensive standpoint because we didn't need him to be a creator and ISO because our stuff was so next-level good. He's now gone to the league and illustrated that he can be an outstanding ISO guy and get to the hoop pretty much anytime he wants.

If a guy is passive it’s your job as a coach to actively tell him to get aggressive. It’s hard to think Hurley is encouraging these guys to do so and they aren’t listening because why would a player turn down a chance to take more shots and make plays? And everyone should have been encouraged to make plays all season, not just a select few with it being “our deepest roster ever” to quote Hurley. Solo wasn’t even on that list until Liam went down and we had no choice but for Solo to make more plays.

The offense for sure holds guys back. Unless you’re a 3 point shooter of course which should give Mullins a good shot for next year. I think if Castle was in Newton’s role he would’ve thrived as the engine doing the things you listed.

But it shouldn’t be a requirement to be a 40% 3 point shooter to be good.

 

[Kemba15]

Completely different and I’ve explained this before. You all have revisionist history about this quick hook. It was not that deep. And based on Calhoun’s track record for developing STARS, I’d say he knew exactly what he was doing. Unless you’d rather bring up why 80th ranked recruit Marcus White didn’t get enough playing time on a team that had Ben Gordon, Rashad Anderson, and Dehnam Brown on it (not you but lol at the reaches people make to bring down Calhoun to excuse Hurley).

Based on how this board is talking, it doesn’t seem like the staff will be interested in course correcting with Ross. I’m proud that despite his struggles and the lack of trust the staff has shown him recently he’s still the main player you see standing up cheering his teammates on every game.

What an amazing kid.

Where you lose me is seemingly giving the staff no credit for any of this in the last 3 seasons:

• Turning 4-star Adama Sanogo into a two-time first-team All Big East selection
• Turning RJ Cole into a first-team All Big East selection
• Turning Donovan Clingan from the 50th-ranked HS player to one of the most valuable NCAAB players in recent memory and top 10 NBA draft pick
• Turning 4-star Jordan Hawkins into a first-team All Big East selection and top 15 NBA draft pick.
• Turning Cam Spencer from All Big Ten Honorable Mention to first-team All Big East

 

[Smp7598]

Coach always talked about the great parents who held the kids accountable. Doesn’t seem like the kids want to be held accountable.

 

[Deleted at users request]

Where you lose me is seemingly giving the staff no credit for any of this in the last 3 seasons:

• Turning 4-star Adama Sanogo into a two-time first-team All Big East selection
• Turning RJ Cole into a first-team All Big East selection
• Turning Donovan Clingan from the 50th-ranked HS player to one of the most valuable NCAAB players in recent memory and top 10 NBA draft pick
• Turning 4-star Jordan Hawkins into a first-team All Big East selection and top 15 NBA draft pick.
• Turning Cam Spencer from All Big Ten Honorable Mention to first-team All Big East

Remove transfers from the equation that were already developed by the time they got here and I already gave you Hawkins issues in this thread.

I think Hurley is great with bigs.

 

[Excalibur]

Remove transfers from the equation that were already developed by the time they got here and I already gave you Hawkins issues in this thread.

I think Hurley is great with bigs.

If you didn't notice Hawins' overall improvement, including ball security/handle, from year 1 to 2 you don't have eyes.

 

[jibsey]

Ross is on a future NBA draft list? In what universe?

 

[boog204]

If a guy is passive it’s your job as a coach to actively tell him to get aggressive. It’s hard to think Hurley is encouraging these guys to do so and they aren’t listening because why would a player turn down a chance to take more shots and make plays? And everyone should have been encouraged to make plays all season, not just a select few with it being “our deepest roster ever” to quote Hurley. Solo wasn’t even on that list until Liam went down and we had no choice but for Solo to make more plays.

The offense for sure holds guys back. Unless you’re a 3 point shooter of course which should give Mullins a good shot for next year. I think if Castle was in Newton’s role he would’ve thrived as the engine doing the things you listed.

But it shouldn’t be a requirement to be a 40% 3 point shooter to be good.

Because they lack confidence. Ross, Stew, and Mahaney are/can be petrified with the ball in their hands. Mahaney in particular passes up shots because he's so shellshocked. We've Ross and Stew hesitate because they are unsure of themselves. I have a hard time believing Hurley does not encourage someone to shoot the ball, be aggressive, and make plays.

The holding back was just rooted in that there is not a great amount of individual options built in. We had action, cuts, screening, etc. But then again, we do not have guys who can consistently do that anyway. So it's a chicken or the egg, thing.

 

[Excalibur]

His NBA scouting report is non responsive. Was he better with the ball as a sophomore than as a freshman? If you say "no", then there's no point talking with you further.

I appreciate the reminder that I should stop arguing with imbeciles . . .

 

[Deleted at users request]

His NBA scouting report is non responsive. Was he better with the ball as a sophomore than as a freshman? If you say "no", then there's no point talking with you further.

I appreciate the reminder that I should stop arguing with imbeciles . . .

Yes he went from bad to okay. It was still considered a weakness.

Here’s a reminder of what real improvement and development looks like when a prospect is fully NBA ready and not just a specialist, imbecile.

 

[Excalibur]

Yes he went from bad to okay. It was still considered a weakness.

Here’s a reminder of what real improvement and development looks like when a prospect is fully NBA ready and not just a specialist, imbecile.

Lamb’s shooting % and per 40 stats all went down between year 1 and 2, save for points (which can be explained by volume). He got to the line a bit more, not because he was a dramatically improved ball handler, but he got stronger and was able to absorb more contact.

 

[Excalibur]

It just occurred to me that the guy making the development argument is also arguing that Solo Ball has always been able to take guys off the dribble, and didn't develop that skill over his two seasons here. No, he was being told not to do it by the coach.

This is the silliness we are dealing with.

 

[Chin Diesel]

 

[Kemba15]

Please stop responding to my posts. You don’t know what you’re talking about and only come from a place of being on Hurley’s jock.

Unlike you, I don’t say things just to say them.

So your argument for Hurley being unable to develop guards and wings is based on recruiting sites’ scouting reports? You do realize they’re wrong all the time right? No matter how much you watch a player it’s still very difficult to predict how he’s going to look against much better competition

 

[Mr. French]

I read it as deflection. Not sure what the question was that preceded, but he’s saying that this team can’t handle his coaching style and as a result he can’t coach the way he feels he can and has to spend time “building them up” because it’s too heavy for everyone. He’s taken some shots at the team for not having fight, energy, or having “dogs.” But dude, you chose every player. They were handpicked. You talked about the exact type
Of kid/player you prioritize and they’re here. Any issue, then, is on you if they are not responding.

So he can’t ever say anything bad about how his players play or handle adversity, just because he recruited them? I guess that goes for every coach in the history of college sports then?

 

[FreeKlaiber]

So he can’t ever say anything bad about how his players play or handle adversity, just because he recruited them? I guess that goes for every coach in the history of college sports then?

Criticism is verboten! i think its how he bragged on them being right type (coachable), but now he's saying opposite to the media to explain our failings. Might be true, but its a choice for him to do that publicly.

I also think there are degrees of criticism, fair and unfair on the board. I think anything about our record is entitled and unfair. Two b2b nattys buys a couple just ok seasons. Spoiled to expect otherwise. However, anything about his sound bites or PT/strategies i believe are the things we should be discussing on the board (both pro and con) . Or we can just all post in unison "trust the staff" (which clearly HAS worked, but then what else are we talking about on a sports forum?). Just my opinion.

 

[RuffRuff]

This is a wierd comment by Dan Hurley, but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as some of his other actions this season. I think he's just trying to send a message to his players that they need to be tougher, so I'm willing to wait for the results to come in.

During most of the Seton Hall game, I was asking myself if there's not a morale problem on this team? Then, the tide abruptly shifted and it semed as if magic happened.

You do wonder the dynamic in the locker room. Here you have AK, who was a pre-determined leader, slumping for a LONG time, trying to play a role he’s not designed for. How strong is his leadership when he’s folding at a crucial time? Neither him or Samson are natural leaders as upperclassmen. Hassan has leadership traits but banged up and limited. Liam is fiery but it’s hard to pass on a leadership role to a OAD. You got a group of guys on bench who aren’t playing much or at all, and wonder if malcontent.

What worries me into next year is that we are rolling no tough established leadership back at all.

 

[UCfor3]

So he can’t ever say anything bad about how his players play or handle adversity, just because he recruited them? I guess that goes for every coach in the history of college sports then?

Exactly. After almost every loss, "lack of toughness" or "the other team was tougher" was mentioned by Calhoun. It's no secret that some players need to be pushed while others need more of a gentle hand. Most players say they like to be coached hard but not all of them really do or do at the level that Hurley coaches. Nothing wrong with saying this group needs a different approach because what has worked for him in the past doesn't work with this group as well. I mean how long do you get to know players you recruit in the portal? Pretty fast moving process. Not exactly the Dating Game. Recruiting is risky. You do your due dilligence but you never really know fully what's inside until they are on campus and being coached hard. Maybe in a few instances the staff thought they could coach up defense, toughness etc...and they overestimated their ability to do so or underestimated how difficult that is.

 

[Deleted at users request]

@temery my posts weren’t copyright material. They were free to find on the internet.

I appreciate the new feature though!

 

[giddyup]

It is possible for 2 opposing things to be true at the same time. Hurley is one of the top coaches in CBB. Hurley is underperforming despite reputation, resources and momentum in 2025. Why? Because the very best coaches are human and make mistakes especially following significant success. They discount the role of good fortune and believe they must know something others don’t.

 

[jdb50]

Exactly. After almost every loss, "lack of toughness" or "the other team was tougher" was mentioned by Calhoun. It's no secret that some players need to be pushed while others need more of a gentle hand. Most players say they like to be coached hard but not all of them really do or do at the level that Hurley coaches. Nothing wrong with saying this group needs a different approach because what has worked for him in the past doesn't work with this group as well. I mean how long do you get to know players you recruit in the portal? Pretty fast moving process. Not exactly the Dating Game. Recruiting is risky. You do your due dilligence but you never really know fully what's inside until they are on campus and being coached hard. Maybe in a few instances the staff thought they could coach up defense, toughness etc...and they overestimated their ability to do so or underestimated how difficult that is.

When Tristen was being recruited and was first on campus Hurley kept asking him if everything was ok as he was showing him around as Tristen was so quiet. Sometimes the toughness is not seen easily on the outside.

 

[RuffRuff]

I did not read article but this should stay in the locker room! Sometimes I think Dan thinks too highly of himself!!!

Thing about Hurley this past off season was that he was so eager to lay out his recipe to the public, in part because he thought he had a unique winning blueprint that he could enlighten the college hoops world on. Practicing hard and finding culture fits is nothing new, but it sure did sound good coming off B2B. I’m good with it, it was DHs time in the sun after a historic accomplishment and something he needed to do for himself. That chance doesn’t come around often.

The rude awakening here is that finding great players is always priority 1, and everything else is a distant second. A euro action system only works with great players.

The whole great parents thing sounded great and grabbed attention, but is so utopian and honestly a tad shallow. You can find great kids that come from less than ideal families that are amazing. The looking at cell phones, better get used to it. I love it in theory but the Cam Spencer’s of the world are few and far between.

 

[Gurleyman]

So it’s reading comprehension

Lamb did not have a crazy skillset coming in. He couldn’t dribble, had a smooth but inconsistent jumper, and wasn’t a good defender. All he had were tools like the guy we’re currently talking about.

The difference is he had a coach that could actually teach him things and give him direction outside of putting him on the court and wishing him luck tossing up 3s.

Also I wish this board was smart enough to stop bringing up Newton for development. It’s so flawed.

Do you know how dumb it sounds to call someone a successful development story because he struggled here and then turned it around. So it’s a successful story because we made him play bad at first when he was great elsewhere? That’s stupid. Its embarrassing to keep propping up this story of the 2nd to last pick of the draft.

Theres a huge leap between second team All-AAC and first-team All-American. It’s odd to suggest he arrived to us as a fully developed player. He was a bad shooter (under 40 percent) at ECU and had 5 assists and 3.5 turnovers per game his last season there, which is a terrible ratio for a PG. I didn’t see anything in his stat line at ECU, or in how he played his first two months here, that led me to believe we had an All-Big East player, much less a first-team AA. He was surrounded with better talent of course, but that meant he had to adapt to a different role and a different system, and it didn’t seem to work at first.

And then he became arguably the best PG in the country his final year. He was a maestro running our offense - still not a great shooter, but the way he made reads off the bounce and found guys for shots was fantastic. His 6+ assists per game usually included great playmaking assists and not just system assists. Lobs, feeds for dunks, finding Spencer wide open in rhythm, etc. I didn’t appreciate it enough in real time, but watching replays of ncaa games, I find myself thinking “damn, Newton was good” a lot.

He was by no means that great before he came here - he had empty, inefficient stats on a bad team, which doesn’t always translate to winning basketball. An SI article had him rated the 11th best player in the portal that year (Alleyne was 16th) - not bad, but certainly not someone who the world considered a potential All-American. He greatly exceeded his “ranking”